The Debate of God.

[Just Another]

I feel that a "belief" (youll get to understand that I dont like that word) in any supernatural being is obsurd to say the least.

That being said I think people should be able to "believe" (uggg) whatever they want, so long as it doesnt affect me.

 

[Tiberius]

When religion and God is concerned the good 'ol logical fallacy opt out clause no longer applies.

Don't you see that an atheist will never understand God therefore cannot even think outside the box of supposed logical fallacy.

It's illogical to think that the Universe just spontaneously popped up out of nowhere. Quite absurd in fact.

Ha! I love this! Now you are claiming that logical fallacies don't apply when it comes to religion! Of course, you never give any solid reason WHY they don't apply, you just say, "Atheists don't believe, therefore they are wrong."

My goodness.

Oh, and it's illogical to assume that the universe just sprang up out of nothing? And yet you have absolutely no trouble making the same claim of God, do you?

 

[nnmartin]

All I wish is that before you start attributing anything to your god that you atleast understand the history of how the bible was created and when and by who.

And how the previous religions in the area that influenced the people that migrated to the place where the book was written.

for sure the Bible writers were influenced by other men, religions and philosophies - that is only to be expected as the influence God has been around since the dawn of time.

Many of these religions were fore-runners to Christianity - God communing with his children already.

 

[nnmartin]

Oh, and it's illogical to assume that the universe just sprang up out of nothing? And yet you have absolutely no trouble making the same claim of God, do you?

it's a different concept there though.

The rules of physics don't apply to God so words like 'nothing' have no meaning.

 

[Friend of Bill W]

Like everything in life,it's a test of intelligence.

Hmmmm. Then why is it Nobel Science prize winners are usually atheist? In fact there's only a handful of them (about five from memory, that believe in God, and one of them admits he only goes to church for social reasons).

Nobel Science prize winners are smart intelligent guys, I would think.

And why would God create people who're too dumb to find Him?

 

[Heathen Hammer]

it's a different concept there though.

No it isn't.

"Special Pleading"

Making up rules ad hoc does not repair your bad argument

 

[nnmartin]

I don't actually see it as an argument though.

More like a question and answer session or a sharing of ideas.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Stop playing semantics. It's dishonest.

 

[Tiberius]

it's a different concept there though.

The rules of physics don't apply to God so words like 'nothing' have no meaning.

Of course. You have to make exceptions for God in order to avoid the same problems you are trying to avoid by invoking God in the first place - namely, admitting that you just don't know.

Nevermind that you never say WHY God is exempt from these things...

 

[Tiberius]

I don't actually see it as an argument though.

More like a question and answer session or a sharing of ideas.

And you have the hide to call ME out for playing semantics? Hypocrite.

 

[outhouse]

for sure the Bible writers were influenced by other men, religions and philosophies - that is only to be expected as the influence God has been around since the dawn of time.

Many of these religions were fore-runners to Christianity - God communing with his children already.

You have nothing to back that statement at all except imagination

 

[connermt]

I am simply going to use this thread as a means to discuss the existence of God with anyone. I am constantly discussing this with people, and feel I should have a main thread to post on.

If anyone wishes to argue that god (or whatever deity you believe in) is true, I have questions ready. Thank you.

The christian god exists only in the minds who wish to believe in it. Beyond that.....?

 

[Daviso452]

I don't actually see it as an argument though.

More like a question and answer session or a sharing of ideas.

Martin, please respond to my post on page 30. I responded to a comment you made and I want you to do the same. You have been avoiding me and unless you give me a reason why you are just making yourself look scared and beaten.

If I made a point that defeated you idea, admit it like a good person should. Otherwise you are contributing to ignorance, and thus fear as well.

If I were god I would consider it a sin to purposely make people afraid just so something can have power.

 

[nnmartin]

And you have the hide to call ME out for playing semantics? Hypocrite.

steady on old chap - no need for that sort of tone...

 

[nnmartin]

Martin, please respond to my post on page 30. I responded to a comment you made and I want you to do the same.

I have just checked page 30 again and cannot see a question posed by you there.

Please re-post it and I will reply

 

[Daviso452]

It was not a question. You said it was absurd to think the universe came from nothing. I said,

Martin, we do not believe that the universe popped out of nowhere. The thing is, we don't know. We just don't. It's possible (though difficult to comprehend) that the universe had no beginning and has always been here. It's possible that a god outside the boundaries of our universe created the universe. It is also possible that during a time when there was nothing and the laws of physics (namely thermodynamics) did not exist, that the universe did come from nothing (though I do agree that is far-fetched)

But bottom line is that we do not know, and so it is irresponsible for anyone to say either way. Until we know what happened prior to the big bang, we never will.

However, that does not mean that the idea of God creating the universe is as likely as any other. With the first and third ideas I proposed, they are within the boundaries of our universe; a place we know exists because we are in it right now. But with God, he supposedly lives outside the our universe. And since we have no evidence of anything existing outside our universe, the concept of god creating the universe is less valid.

I wanted to know your thoughts on this; if you thought there were holes in it, if you agreed with it, if I introduced something new to you, etc...

P.S. Sorry about the rage.

 

[nnmartin]

My thoughts are that you have to view God as transcending science in all forms.

Hard to conceptualise really.

God is the power behind the unknown.

If there is a nothingness then God created that - he also created himself/herself.

I'm sure there are some hardcore philosophy sites out there that can put this into more flowery language but I think as far as God goes we, as humans, will only ever get to see or understand the tiniest part.

 

[Daviso452]

But you would have to assume god exists to say he transcends science. You need to start from the neutral position, which is either you don't know or you don't believe.

 

[Skeptisch]

I don't actually see it as an argument though. More like a question and answer session or a sharing of ideas.

“You couldn't be here if stars hadn't exploded. Because the elements, the carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, iron, all the things that matter for evolution weren't created at the beginning of time. They were created in the nuclear furnaces of stars. And the only way they could get into your body is if the stars were kind enough to explode.

So forget Jesus. The stars died so that you could be here today.”
― Lawrence M. Krauss


[youtube]5Jf-uQQnEyw[/youtube]

 

[Tiberius]

steady on old chap - no need for that sort of tone...

What you just want me to ignore it when you do the very thing you love to complain about me (even though I've never actually done it?)