The Debate of God.

[nnmartin]

sure, why not - sounds like a good idea to me....

I think semantics and asking for sources in debates about the existence of God are not really viable arguments.

Shouldn't be allowed really.

 

[Tiberius]

So if we can't ask for sources, then how can we establish anything as fact?

 

[nnmartin]

you can't expect to establish God as fact.

You either believe or don't.

 

[Skeptisch]

you can't expect to establish God as fact. You either believe or don't.

“You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe.”
--Carl Sagan's Contact

“All religions make the same mistake. They all take the only real faculty we have that distinguishes us from other primates, and from other animals—the faculty of reason, and the willingness to take any risk that reason demands of us—and they replace that with the idea that faith is a virtue. If I could change just one thing, it would be to dissociate the idea of faith from virtue—now and for good—and to expose it for what it is: a servile weakness, a refuge in cowardice, and a willingness to follow, with credulity, people who are in the highest degree unscrupulous.”
--Christopher Hitchens

 

[outhouse]

you can't expect to establish God as fact.

You either believe or don't.

that doesnt mean you can make it up as you go either

 

[Tiberius]

you can't expect to establish God as fact.

You either believe or don't.

One can say the same thing about the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Why believe in one but not the other?

 

[Daviso452]

you can't expect to establish God as fact.

You either believe or don't.

Thank you Martin. We have finally come to an agreement.

But I do want to ask; if you know there is nothing supporting God's existence, then why do you believe in him? Is it because you want to believe in the afterlife? Is it because you feel God with you? Or do you believe simply because you want to? You don't have to answer if you don't want to; I was just curious.

 

[nnmartin]

in short it's because I feel God with me and also in nature.

 

[nnmartin]

One can say the same thing about the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Why believe in one but not the other?

Is this monster backed up by much theology though?

 

[Daviso452]

Is this monster backed up by much theology though?

Doesn't need to be. Religions are not made any more true just because they have ancient documents.

 

[nnmartin]

theology gives them a structure and philosophy though - otherwise they are just a form of 'up to you' - which in essence means you never leave your own thought patterns.

That would just be the religion of ego.

 

[Tiberius]

Is this monster backed up by much theology though?

Yes. His followers are called Pastafarians, there is a Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and there is even evidence from the real world supporting that gospel (such as the undeniable correlation between the decline of pirates and the rise of global temperatures).

theology gives them a structure and philosophy though - otherwise they are just a form of 'up to you' - which in essence means you never leave your own thought patterns.

That would just be the religion of ego.

But isn't that what you are doing when you say, "in short it's because I feel God with me."

 

[Daviso452]

theology gives them a structure and philosophy though - otherwise they are just a form of 'up to you' - which in essence means you never leave your own thought patterns.

That would just be the religion of ego.

Christianity is no different. That's why there are catholic, baptists, protestants, and so on. If there is one book, then why are there so many different versions?

Oh, and I just read you comment on a different thread. How does religion make sense? Why does the bible say the earth was created in 7 days when all the evidence says otherwise? Why does it say animals suddenly came into being without the process that brought them to that point? Those are not things that negate the existence of God, but they do contradict the teachings of the christian god.

 

[nnmartin]

if you've read my other posts you will have also noticed that I said there is God time and man time, and also the events of the Bible happen on the Divine Plane of Existence.

 

[nnmartin]

Yes. His followers are called Pastafarians, there is a Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and there is even evidence from the real world supporting that gospel (such as the undeniable correlation between the decline of pirates and the rise of global temperatures).

Please provide a link or a selection of that gospel then.

 

[Daviso452]

if you've read my other posts you will have also noticed that I said there is God time and man time, and also the events of the Bible happen on the Divine Plane of Existence.

So, you have no reason to believe that there is a Divine plane of existence, but you do so God can make sense?

 

[nnmartin]

..... there is even evidence from the real world supporting that gospel (such as the undeniable correlation between the decline of pirates and the rise of global temperatures).

your theology sounds absurd already.

make some more up and let's see how ridiculous it can become.

Remember of course that most religions have sound ethical and philosophical bases to support their theology and supernatural ideas.

Thus they can help mankind in a general moral sense even if you don't believe in God.

 

[nnmartin]

So, you have no reason to believe that there is a Divine plane of existence, but you do so God can make sense?

How do you figure that when I just said that I do believe in the Plane of Existence? - you are putting words in my mouth.

Looking at it the wrong way round in fact.

 

[Tiberius]

Please provide a link or a selection of that gospel then.

The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

 

[Daviso452]

How do you figure that when I just said that I do believe in the Plane of Existence? - you are putting words in my mouth.

Looking at it the wrong way round in fact.

What I meant was, you agree that there is no evidence for God. If there was no God, that means no divine plane, and only the plane of existence. But in order for your concept of God to be true, this second plane, the "divine plane," must be real.

And so, you believe in the Divine Plane because it makes your concept of God true, even though there is no reason to believe that it, and god, are true.