Obey is Obey ,it's not like "daraba " work had many sense .
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the definition of cuckod between the Westerns and Muslims
- Thread starter Godobeyer
- Start date
I believe those Hadith were written in a very specific time, for very specific purposes. Women needed more protection from their menfolk than they do now. Therefore, "obey" could have, and probably does, mean something different today than back then. I'm quite certain men take advantage of the "obey" order, and that they use the scripture as their "back-up". Sadly, you seem to be heading in that same direction.
Women are not animals, and don't need "training", "correction", or "love-slaps". Heck, animals don't need love-slaps either.
edited : is there any signs that those Hadiths were writen in very specific time ? for specific women ?
if it's yes , where is the signs or your support about this claim .
for the verse , the "insudornite " woman this is the specific time for specific women, i am not generalate for all women .
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sister how about this verse of Quran which , allowed to the men to married more than wife .
4-3
but if tranlate from Arabic to English ,word by word it's become
4-3
And if ye fear that ye will not deal fairly by the orphans, marry of the women, who seem good to you, two "OR"AND three "OR"AND four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hands possess. Thus it is more likely that ye will not do injustice.
which in arabic
وان خفتم الا تقسطوا في اليتامى فانكحوا ما طاب لكم من النساء مثنى وثلاث ورباع فان خفتم الا تعدلوا فواحدة او ما ملكت ايمانكم ذلك ادنى الا تعولوا
some silly guys said it's 2+3+4=9 , that mean the muslim man could marry 9 wifes !!!!
that's wrong translation of course "because we need to translate the meaning, not the words", the man could marry only 4 wives and he affraid that could not balance between them ,and because it's hard to balance between them, one wife is very required .
sister how about this verse of Quran which , allowed to the men to married more than wife .
4-3
in this verse , the translator put instead of " AND" "OR " it's the correct meaning but if we translate it , and i am with it
but if tranlate from Arabic to English ,word by word it's become
4-3
And if ye fear that ye will not deal fairly by the orphans, marry of the women, who seem good to you, two "OR"AND three "OR"AND four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hands possess. Thus it is more likely that ye will not do injustice.
which in arabic
وان خفتم الا تقسطوا في اليتامى فانكحوا ما طاب لكم من النساء مثنى وثلاث ورباع فان خفتم الا تعدلوا فواحدة او ما ملكت ايمانكم ذلك ادنى الا تعولوا
some silly guys said it's 2+3+4=9 , that mean the muslim man could marry 9 wifes !!!!
that's wrong translation of course "because we need to translate the meaning, not the words", the man could marry only 4 wives and he affraid that could not balance between them ,and because it's hard to balance between them, one wife is very required .
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Lol, yeah
.
some western people claim that the man equal to woman , if that's true why we don't have a football match (by fifa) between the males and females ?
why the woman don't insist to play football or any kind of games with or against men ?
why we don't have official box match between man and woman
why we don't have match WWE between John Cena and woman ?
we are equal ,or no ?
why the woman don't insist to play football or any kind of games with or against men ?
why we don't have official box match between man and woman
why we don't have match WWE between John Cena and woman ?
we are equal ,or no ?
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Sakeenah
Well-Known Member
asalaamu alaikum(peace be upon you)
First of all I ask God to give you a proper understanding of Islam..Islam isn't about picking and choosing certain ahadith and not mentioning others and eventhough you are an native arabic speaker it doesn't mean you translate the words correctley because many of the arabs nowadays speak 3aamiya(arabic dialects)
as you know fusha(classical arabic) is a very wide language a word can have different meanings it depends in which context it is used..for example when mariam(mary) gave birth to jesus (peace be upon him)she was told by God to(sauwm) fast from talking for 3 days..this didn't mean she had to fast from eating or drinking..but from speech..because liguistically sauwm means to withhold..but if I would say ' sa asuumu fee shahr ramadan(I'm going to fast in the month of ramadan)in this sentence it means I'm going to fast from eating and drinking..
so don't tell me that daraba (to beat/hit) in the ayat means a husband can beat his wife when he wants ...like I said islam isn't about what Goodobeyer would want to do..If you would be abit more humble and would take time to go back to what the uluma(scholars) have said about this verse you would know that they explained that when a husband sees that the wife does something harmfull which effects her and her family in a harmfull way and he tried everything from talking to her..not sleeping with her in 1 bed..getting other people involved, having patience..and she still continues then he's allowed to hit/slap her lightly..and the scholars explained this hitting ClEARlY..it's as if you would take a (miswak) toothbrush and hit her hand with it..I can give you all the quotes of the scholars who have said that.
And I want to remind you brother that the prophet (peace be upon him)never hit his wife and you claim to be a very good follower of our beloved prophet why not take his example ?
The prophet s.a.w also mentioned that the best of the muslims are those who are good to their wives.
Narrated by al-Bukhaari (3331) and Muslim (1468).
And he said: “The best of you is the one who is best to his wife, and I am the best of you to my wives.”
And Allah mentioned in the quran :
And live with them honourably. If you dislike them, it may be that you dislike a thing and Allaah brings through it a great deal of good”
[al-Nisa’ 4:19].
Al-Bukhaari narrated from Abu Bakrah (may Allah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) addressed the people and said: “Do you know what day this is?” They said: Allah and His messenger know best. He said: “Is it not the Day of Sacrifice?” We said: Yes indeed, O Messenger of Allah. He said: “What land is this? Is it not the sacred land?” We said: Yes indeed, O Messenger of Allah. He said: “Your blood, your wealth, your honour and your skin are sacred to you, as sacred as this day of yours, in this month of yours, in this land of yours. Have I not conveyed (the message)? We said: Yes. He said: “O Allah, bear witness.”
And I don't have a problem with the ayaat or ahadith but I have a problem with your lack of understanding
I'm from a family considered orthodox-muslims here in the west..what I mean is we follow the quran and sunnah strictly..Me and my sisters wear the face veil my father has a beard etc..but I have never seen my father talk to my mother in disrespectal matter and he never hit my mother..he knows that he should treat my mother how he wants to be treated..and this is from the sunnah(example of the prophet)
and one last thing the wife can ask for a divorce if the husband mistreats her this is something All the scholars agreed upon..
And about the issue of obbeying,equality I will post about that later InshaAllah..
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Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
That might be difficult ... she died six years ago.
But she was kissed in greeting and danced with other men at dances many many times.
I am not that much of a dancer.
It is normal to ask a partner or escort for permission to dance with your partner unless it is an excuse me dance, when you change partners.
I did not mind in the least. it was correct behaviour.... If you love some one you trust them.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
There was a time, not so long ago,when in western law, a woman was the property (chattel) of a man. A married woman had very few rights.
Queen Elizabeth the First remaind unmarried to keep her powers intact.
Many single women did the same.
Today, men and women are equal in law in a majority of countries, and many have had women rulers.
In certain sports allowance is made for the fact that women are physically less powerful than men and so only compete with other women.
In some sports where physique is unimportant, they are now only separated because not all countries yet agree to open competition.
In matter of business women compete equally with men at all levels.
In the armed forces women now command and fight with men. Some of our best fast jet pilots are women, they were in action in Libya.
Sakeenah
Well-Known Member
brother Godobeyer maybe it's best to discuss one topic at a time
I would suggest you actually read what other people are posting and think about it..don't post for the sake of arguing because there's no benefit and reward in that..don't just think 'I'm going to refute them'... because that's an arrogant way of thinking..and arrogance isn't from islam..I think you know the saying of the messenger ..in which he mentioned that someone with arrogance will not enter jannah(paradise)..
Before I comment on the things you have mentioned regarding muslimwomen and her duties as a wife..I think there are more things that should be discussed first such as:
-status of women in islam
-what is marriage in islam/why do you as muslim get married?
-rights of the wife and husband
when I have time (tonight or tomorrow) I will discuss this and comment on the things you have mentioned
I'm not quite sure what this has to do with cuckold?
He's arguing that men are superior to women, and therefore must maintain women and our actions. Cuckolds are by definition failing at being husbands by "letting" their women to act how they want. It's apparently the result of this silly mindset called "equality."
Misogyny. It goes great with my stiletto heel planted firmly through an oppressor's foot.
Consider the drought broken
LOL saw this earlier.
Some of y'all haven't met me in chat yet....
You don't understand the concept of legal equality. Nobody is saying that men and women are physically equal. The notion of equality between the sexes is that men and women have equal rights -- they have equal say between one another, they have equal ability to get a job, they have equal pay for the same job, etc.
There are no mental differences between men and women. Women deserve the same rights as men even if they have statistically less upper body strength, wouldn't you agree?
LOL saw this earlier.
Some of y'all haven't met me in chat yet....
I must get to chat soon for some tips on my new way of life
Sakeenah
Well-Known Member
No men and women aren't equal there are natural differences physically and emotionally
Islam regards men and women as equally obliged with regard to many acts of worship and interactions with others. For example, women do (ablution)wudoo’ just as men do, they do ghusl as men do, they pray as men do, and they fast as men do,and there are many other similar cases because women are the twin halves of men as it was mentioned in saheeh hadith attirmidhi 98/113..
Both males and females have similar rewards for obedience and penalties for disobedience in this world and the Hereafter
Allah mentioned in the Quran:
Whoever does righteous acts, whether male or female, while he is a believer, verily, to him We will give a good life, and We shall pay them certainly a reward in proportion to the best of what they used to do (16:97)
Allah also said in the Quran:
Surely for men who submit to Allah and for women who submit to Allah, for believing men and for believing women, for devout men and devout women, for truthful men and truthful women, for steadfast men and steadfast women, for humble men and humble women, for charitable men and charitable women, for fasting men and fasting women, for men who guard their chastity and women who guard their chastity, for men who remember Allah much and for women who remember Allah much, for all of them Allah has prepared forgiveness and a mighty reward. (33:35)
-Women have the same moral obligations and are entitled to the same general rights as men in guarding chastity, integrity and personal honor and respect, etc. No double standards are allowed
-Women are equally qualified and allowed to engage in financial dealings and property ownership. According to Islamic law women can own, buy, sell and undertake any financial transaction without the need for guardianship, and without any restrictions or limitations
-Islam entitles women to the same rights as men in terms of education the prophet (peace be upon him) said:
Seeking knowledge is compulsory for each and every Muslim (i.e. both male and female)
And the list goes on but i'll stop so that you can actually read it and ponder on it and I praise God for giving me high status as a muslimwoman and for giving me a brain to think for myself..
Scientific investigations have thrown into question the idea that men and women have different emotional needs. It might be true in practice that women seem more emotional (or "differently" emotional) in many societies, but the scientific evidence shows that such isn't an inherent trait of women but rather a culturally enforced, self-fulfilling stereotype.
For instance, the reason there are more male engineers, mathematicians and scientists isn't because of a difference in the way males and females are able to think but rather because of how their culture treats them and how they're raised.
There are no natural, explicit differences between men and women in terms of intelligence or emotions. In fact, it wouldn't make sense if there were. The only genetic difference between men and women is an X or a y chromosome (even then, more specifically, the SRY gene.) There are no genes inherent to the y chromosome that are known to affect cognitive development differently than girls except in the case of higher prevalence of defects (e.g. autism), but AFAIK only from lacking a copy gene as with color blindness.
As far as sex hormones are concerned, studies find that testosterone makes no cognitive difference in a controlled environment, but can make a difference in social settings -- again, indicating that any perceived male/female mental differences aren't inherent but rather caused by patriarchy-leaning cultures.
Men and women are the same, mentally. Society and stereotypes are where differences come from: the differences are an illusion.
nnmartin
Well-Known Member
Only??
Nonsense.
In 10 seconds I could see about 50 web-sites that refute this idea.
Men and Women Really Do Think Differently | LiveScience
Yeah... what else did you suppose separates men from women?
nnmartin said:
You can't just ignore the most recent evidence using the most advance methods and equipment by posting studies that don't even have the implications that you may think that you're implying.
Indeed, statistically women have more white matter than men -- but that isn't an inherent difference. White matter is more malleable than gray matter and is far more connected to social activities (for instance, frequent liars also tend to have more white matter in their brains).
You're missing the point: nobody is disputing that social factors tend to mold males in one way and females in another way. Women are taught to look pretty, encouraged to gossip, and discouraged from persuing more intellectual fields. White matter is associated with social skills (which is why there are anomalies with white matter in autistic males, for instance): if society gears women to fulfill social roles, then it's not surprising they have statistically more white matter.
What you're erroneously doing, though, is asserting that such differences are inherent.
First of all, even if they are, males and females are still intellectually equivalent (your link re-affirms this).
Secondly, that isn't even the case as far as we know. Neuroscience is a developing field; but all of the latest evidence with the latest methods and equipment is demonstrating that there are not any inherent cognitive differences between men and women until social norms and self-fulfilling stereotypes start getting in the way.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
In a long working life. I found women to be better bosses and better subordinates than men.
They were far less likely to be blown off track by Testosterone.
In the later stages of my career I noticed that women were excelling at top jobs that required a broad range of people skills, combined with great attention to detail.
From an employers or managers point of view there is great benefit in treating men and women equally, and to use them in positions that that encourage their personal strengths. Today this often means promoting women above men, in the most demanding positions.
They were far less likely to be blown off track by Testosterone.
In the later stages of my career I noticed that women were excelling at top jobs that required a broad range of people skills, combined with great attention to detail.
From an employers or managers point of view there is great benefit in treating men and women equally, and to use them in positions that that encourage their personal strengths. Today this often means promoting women above men, in the most demanding positions.