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The fall of man; Free will

Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
waitasec said:
no i believe a lunatic revolutionary person by the name of jesus existed
it's his claim to be god i find rather absurd....
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You might go back and have another look at that.

When approached with that question, He would ask in return....
"Who do you think I am?"
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
dmgdnooc said:
It doesn't take faith to climb a tree; or to be liberal with money either.
　
The verse, if you will read it, says some will NOT die. Particulary those 3 apostles.
　
The verse does not refer to the 2nd coming. That assertion is your straw man.
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why mention death? was death a matter of urgency for some of those 3?
he mentioned death because he was going to die

how about in Mark 9:1 There are some of YOU standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of god has come in power -JC

dmgdnooc said:
Faith is seen in the works of the faithful, by the love that the members of the community have one for another.
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not how your jesus saw it...it is easy to love those that believe as you do in your community
it is hard to love those that are a challenge...

dmgdnooc said:
From a half a world away you cannot see my works.
You might not be able to see them from down the end of the street on which I live, that does not mean that they do not exist.
The assumption that they are non-existent or must be seen by you to be valid is, frankly, off the normal scale of ridiculous.
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at the end of the day you have to be truthful to yourself.
if you are a person to profess faith than all i am saying is, what is the proof of faith other than words....judgement, control which goes against faith in the first place (i am not saying YOU my experience with the christians i come in contact on a personal level) and what i see all around ME when it comes to their hypocrisy. judgement and control.. .that is undeniable, especially in regards to the christian right

dmgdnooc said:
My works are unknowable to you, my words, just so much hot air.
I'm surprised you continue the conversation.
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just live according to your convictions....your faith. :rolleyes:
　
dmgdnooc said:
Words are not just words.
Each one holds the kernel of at least one idea.
It is the ideas at the base of the words that shape our thoughts.
Those thoughts direct our actions.
We are cerebral creatures, everything happens in our heads, even you can't escape that aspect of our shared human nature.
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nothing will stand out with only words....if my mom told me she loved me
and that's all she ever said as far as SHOWING ME she loves me...she can say until she is blue in the face will i believe she loves me by her words ONLY....i think NOT.
　
dmgdnooc said:
I have no objection to gay marriage as a civil union, or in any Church that recognises it.
More than that, I am in favour of formal unions, marriages, based on love.
　
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marriage comes with a history of subjugation towards women anyway...another topic perhaps...what are you insinuating with "based on love" isn't that what our current view of marriage/civil unions are about?

the christian right would be upset with those views, agreed?
 
jml03

jml03

Member
Kilgore Trout said:
Saying you don't need proof when you have faith, is like saying you don't need chemotherapy when you're in denial about your cancer.
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You don't if you have faith that God will heal you; But first you pray for God's will to be done. If it is your time, you will go.
 
it's_sam

it's_sam

Freak of Nature
why do you claim him to be god?
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You just assumed we did.... honestly. He would be in our understanding closer to God then any other "father, son". But we are aware of the difference.
 
Kilgore Trout

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
jml03 said:
You don't if you have faith that God will heal you; But first you pray for God's will to be done. If it is your time, you will go.
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For a group of people who supposedly spend so much time reading a book full of metaphors, you all seem to miss the point of them quite often.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
About that son of God argument....
From another thread....I wrote....

"Being a son of God is first your own declaration.

Such as, heartfelt recital of the 'Lord's Prayer'....
Our Father?....my Father?...your Father?....brothers are we?

And of course the angels hear you when you say such things.

That would include the fallen angels who would have you dead.

That you might walk in heaven in their place, would be an insult beyond acceptance.
So too...the angels in heaven, that lost their brothers over an argument concerning something that happens to look like ...you.

If Jesus somehow failed to make the 'grade'....what hope would the rest of us have?

If it's true, that He could walk on water, and raise the dead....
and He might not be in heaven?...
What then the rest of us?

Even so...if He was no more than ordinary...was He not an example to follow?
If He did not make it to heaven....you can't follow Him there.
Or perhaps you think His teachings are insufficient?

If His parables are sufficient....then you will make it to heaven.
If His teachings are false...you won't make it.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.......False?

And of course, though you might be willing...
Don't the angels have to agree that you worthy to walk in heaven?

Even if you were God's favorite...is that a secured position?"
 
jml03

jml03

Member
it's_sam said:
You just assumed we did.... honestly. He would be in our understanding closer to God then any other "father, son". But we are aware of the difference.
Click to expand...

What is sad is that so many have no belief in Him, yet spend as much time as possible trying to sway those of us that do. Not only will we receive judgement for what we do and say, but those of us that turn people away from God, I believe they will answer for that. And for those that say how evil He is, I cringe when I read that. I can't believe people say such horrible things. Those that say the most hateful things, well if you read their posts, there is so much negativity in everything they say about God or Jesus plus just the negativity that comes from them. To say such horrible things, that says something about who you are. If I weren't firmly grounded in my belief in God, I would definitely NOT want to be like them. Such animosity. Such underlying viciousness. Who would CHOOSE to be that way? Not me.

The thing that puzzles me the most is the people that spend so much time and study to disprove someones beliefs. Why do it, unless you feel God has wronged you. I'm not comparing the Father to leprechauns, but those kind of people must enjoy making little kids cry over their angelic beliefs in mystical beings. Thank You God for loving me when I didn't love myself. Thank You God for loving others when people cannot. Thank You Jesus for loving me so much that You chose to give Yourself for me.

Another thing, for us Christians - if we cannot FIRMLY stand up for our beliefs during times like these, HOW will we stand when we are truly persecuted for them?
 
it's_sam

it's_sam

Freak of Nature
:clap
jml03 said:
What is sad is that so many have no belief in Him, yet spend as much time as possible trying to sway those of us that do. Not only will we receive judgement for what we do and say, but those of us that turn people away from God, I believe they will answer for that. And for those that say how evil He is, I cringe when I read that. I can't believe people say such horrible things. Those that say the most hateful things, well if you read their posts, there is so much negativity in everything they say about God or Jesus plus just the negativity that comes from them. To say such horrible things, that says something about who you are. If I weren't firmly grounded in my belief in God, I would definitely NOT want to be like them. Such animosity. Such underlying viciousness. Who would CHOOSE to be that way? Not me.

The thing that puzzles me the most is the people that spend so much time and study to disprove someones beliefs. Why do it, unless you feel God has wronged you. I'm not comparing the Father to leprechauns, but those kind of people must enjoy making little kids cry over their angelic beliefs in mystical beings. Thank You God for loving me when I didn't love myself. Thank You God for loving others when people cannot. Thank You Jesus for loving me so much that You chose to give Yourself for me.

Another thing, for us Christians - if we cannot FIRMLY stand up for our beliefs during times like these, HOW will we stand when we are truly persecuted for them?
Click to expand...
:clap
 
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