The fear of Atheism

[Magic Man]

That's just a semantic game. I can just as easily say that Christianity is disbelief in Hinduism, but that's not what Christianity is; it only describes what Christianity is not.

You can find atheists who disbelieve in god very strongly, who talk about it a lot, who despise the excesses of religion, etc., but I would like very much for you to describe exactly what positive beliefs atheists share.

See the point is just that no one can absolutely prove either side to the other. You can't absolutely prove to me that there is a god, and I can't prove to you that there isn't one (the figurative you). Each side then becomes a belief, neither is a fact.

That's all. Other than that, yes, atheists don't share any universal positive beliefs that I know of.

 

[Smoke]

You can also find atheists who actively believe that there is no God. They are in no way representative of atheism as a whole - as you point out, no one is - but they do exist.

How is an active belief that there is no x different from disbelief in x?

 

[Storm]

How is an active belief that there is no x different from disbelief in x?

If there is no strong evidence for or against x, as in the case of God, then active belief that there is no x is a position of faith, while passive disbelief is not.

 

[Smoke]

Yes, it is a belief that there are no leprechauns, and such. There is no one singular belief structure for atheists, but there is one belief we have in common.

There is one disbelief we have in common. There is one belief that none of us hold. The beliefs we hold are extremely varied, and none of them are held by all of us in common.

I'm not going to get dragged into this again; I find it very trying to argue with people who insist on calling something the opposite of what it is.

The belief that atheism is a belief, "taken on faith," is as irrational as any belief I've encountered, and I'm just going to have to learn to quit arguing about it, as I quit arguing years ago with Jehovah's Witnesses. That people who are in no position to know, insist on describing to me the workings of my own mind is just one more example of the offensive behavior I'm going to have to learn to tolerate and ignore.

 

[Smoke]

If there is no strong evidence for or against x, as in the case of God, then active belief that there is no x is a position of faith, while passive disbelief is not.

That way lies absurdity, if not insanity; the only bonus is that it renders "faith" meaningless.

 

[Magic Man]

There is one disbelief we have in common. There is one belief that none of us hold. The beliefs we hold are extremely varied, and none of them are held by all of us in common.

I'm not going to get dragged into this again; I find it very trying to argue with people who insist on calling something the opposite of what it is.

The belief that atheism is a belief, "taken on faith," is as irrational as any belief I've encountered, and I'm just going to have to learn to quit arguing about it, as I quit arguing years ago with Jehovah's Witnesses. That people who are in no position to know, insist on describing to me the workings of my own mind is just one more example of the offensive behavior I'm going to have to learn to tolerate and ignore.

When I ask you whether or not there is a God, what is your answer? I assume it's "No, there is no God". That is a belief. It's not a fact. I can prove to myself that I think, therefore I exist. I can't prove to you that I think, you just have to take it on faith. Anything beyond you yourself thinking and existing, is then taken on faith, including beliefs that some things don't exist.

 

[Magic Man]

By the way, Midnight, I generally agree with everything I've seen you say on here. You usually say things I say better than I do. I'm then surprised by your reaction to quit debating a topic because you disagree with the other side.

 

[Storm]

That way lies absurdity, if not insanity; the only bonus is that it renders "faith" meaningless.

Obviously, I disagree, but if you really don't want to discuss it further, I won't press the matter.

I will ask you to bear in mind that I'm only talking about a minority of atheists.

 

[Sola'lor]

Are you guys going to talk about something interesting? This keeps on showing up on my 'My Replies' list and there's interesting being talked about. So either get something inetersting going or stop showoing up on my 'My Replies' list.

And I mean it!

Anybody want a peanut?



Just kidding.

 

[Smoke]

I'm then surprised by your reaction to quit debating a topic because you disagree with the other side.

I've had this debate before. There's no end to it, just an endless round of "Yes, you do," and "No, I don't." It's a complete waste of time. I don't mean to be ugly about it or to imply that I don't want to discuss other topics with the same people, but this one goes nowhere. It's exactly as useful and interesting as arguing with people who insist on believing that I am the Emperor of China. If people refuse to understand that I'm not the Emperor of China, I'll just have to be content with their believing what they please about it.

 

[Magic Man]

I've had this debate before. There's no end to it, just an endless round of "Yes, you do," and "No, I don't." It's a complete waste of time. I don't mean to be ugly about it or to imply that I don't want to discuss other topics with the same people, but this one goes nowhere. It's exactly as useful and interesting as arguing with people who insist on believing that I am the Emperor of China. If people refuse to understand that I'm not the Emperor of China, I'll just have to be content with their believing what they please about it.

But you are the emperor of China! :bow:

 

[turk179]

This all boils down to Miss Apples comment on what atheists believe or not believe. Basically a misunderstanding in which DallasApple believed that atheists believe that they don't believe which is based on a belief of non believing inside of a belief that we don't believe in said belief. Now the two sides of the atheist argument 1: I believe that I don't believe and 2: I don't believe that I believe, have valid points. All in all, I believe that MidnightBlue is right. Now if you will excuse me, I believe I need a drink.

 

[A Lurking Shadow]

This all boils down to Miss Apples comment on what atheists believe or not believe. Basically a misunderstanding in which DallasApple believed that atheists believe that they don't believe which is based on a belief of non believing inside of a belief that we don't believe in said belief. Now the two sides of the atheist argument 1: I believe that I don't believe and 2: I don't believe that I believe, have valid points. All in all, I believe that MidnightBlue is right. Now if you will excuse me, I believe I need a drink.

You sir, just blew my mind.

 

[DallasApple]

Now if you will excuse me, I believe I need a drink.

Wait for me..Im coming with you...

Blessings

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

P.S

Whatever I said before..nevermind..pretend I didnt say it..I dont know anything.

Blessings

Dallas

 

[TaraMoon]

I think fear of Atheism (usually manifested by Christians) is based on the belief that Christianity will lose its dominant position in this society. Many Christians are not content being allowed to practice their own religion, they want to force it on others. Their ability to do so will diminish with the rise of Atheism. The fear is also based on the largely unwarranted assumption that Atheists want to prohibit Christians from practicing their religion. While it is true that Atheists don't want to be subjected to Christianity, I believe most don't really care if it's practiced in private. Sadly, this is not good enough for many Christians. Lastly, I think many Christians fear Atheism because of insecurity about the validity of their own belief system.

 

[Smoke]

While it is true that Atheists don't want to be subjected to Christianity, I believe most don't really care if it's practiced in private.

Actually, I don't even care if it's practiced in public. If they would quit trying to push their religion into the government and the schools, and their beliefs into law, I wouldn't care if the street preachers dotted all the parks and religious processions went down Main Street every week. It's their determination to force their beliefs on their unwilling fellow citizens that I object to. And because I think a religion that was at all worthwhile would never resort to compulsion, I can only come to one conclusion about theirs.

 

[s2a]

mball said:

I am an atheist.

Bully for you.

I do believe that there is no god.

OK...

My belief is supported by a lot of proof, but it's still a belief.

Is it a "belief" that is dependent upon faith-based claims, or not?

There is the possibility that some god does exist.

Not within my estimations...no, there isn't.

Is there a "possibility" that The Easter Bunny "exists" today, right now, as a living, breathing, sentient being? Even the most ridiculously distant and remote possibility? Really?

Reason affords me a certitude of conclusion that surpasses all reasonable doubts to the contrary. ALL.

I am as certain that there are no such things as gods, as I am that I am not a frog. Or would you care to argue some "possibility" (no matter how impossibly remote) that I am, in fact, some sentient species derivative of Order Anura, Family Ranidae...that just happens to post to online forums of discussion and debate?

You can't deny that.

I can. I did. I shall continue to do so henceforth....

Now what?

So, stop with all of the sarcasm, and think before you type.

Your counsel is noted.

Spare me any of your further suggestions, or consultations, or entreaties, if you please.

You're welcome to participate and contribute here by whatever means/methods you choose (within the constraints of the RF COC and forum rules).

Is that sentiment pensively considered as well enough wrought to placate your sensibilities?

Ribbit.

 

[Magic Man]

mball said:

Bully for you.

OK...

Is it a "belief" that is dependent upon faith-based claims, or not?

Not within my estimations...no, there isn't.

Is there a "possibility" that The Easter Bunny "exists" today, right now, as a living, breathing, sentient being? Even the most ridiculously distant and remote possibility? Really?

Reason affords me a certitude of conclusion that surpasses all reasonable doubts to the contrary. ALL.

I am as certain that there are no such things as gods, as I am that I am not a frog. Or would you care to argue some "possibility" (no matter how impossibly remote) that I am, in fact, some sentient species derivative of Order Anura, Family Ranidae...that just happens to post to online forums of discussion and debate?

I can. I did. I shall continue to do so henceforth....

Now what?

Your counsel is noted.

Spare me any of your further suggestions, or consultations, or entreaties, if you please.

You're welcome to participate and contribute here by whatever means/methods you choose (within the constraints of the RF COC and forum rules).

Is that sentiment pensively considered as well enough wrought to placate your sensibilities?

Ribbit.

As you said, not within your estimations. Are you now the absolute authority on everything? If so, please tell me what I should do with my life, since you know all of the answers for sure.

Prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is no God. You can't, no matter what you think. Many people "know" that God exists. Somebody has to be wrong. There is the possibility that it's you. Up until a few years ago you, along with everyone else, "knew" that Pluto was a planet. Guess what? It's not.

Reasonable people will allow for the possibility of error. I firmly believe that I'm right wbout the question of God. I can also admit that it's possible that I'm wrong. The difference is that I don't feel the need to worry about the small possibility of his existence. Just like the Easter Bunny or whatever else, it's not worth considering.

In normal everday life, I think it's better to just dismiss the possibility of God, because it's not worth considering, if you're an atheist. On the other hand, when having a debate about the question, I can then say that I don't have absolute proof of God's nonexistence, otherwise no one would believe in Him. Therefore, my idea is a belief.

So, no, that sentiment is not sufficiently considered.

So, when you get an attitude with someone over something that wasn't even offensive in the first place, and in fact was absolutely right, I'll call you on it. You can debate politely. I know it's a hard concept for someone who "knows" that they're always right, but try it sometime.

 

[ravenstrike]

I think everyone needs a good hug.
Who's in??