The flood in Genesis

[Autodidact]

It would be a greater miracle if an ark made of wood was found after so many thousands of years, than the flood itself. But from what i can recall, there is a national site run by the Turkey goverment that shows the area where remnants of it has been found. Now...if would be rather shameful of them to make money out of such a thing if its a hoax.

I think a simple google might help to clarify the issue. It matters more to people who look for evidence of course. I havent looked into it of late.

Then Google it.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

Noah's Ark Search - Mount Ararat

As with the Red Sea crossing site and most other biblical archeology site there is more speculation than evidence here.

BUT

Evidence is only necessary for, those who need it. For the believer the bible is necessary and sufficient. No other "evidence" is needed or even useful.

 

[gzusfrk]

http://www.noahsarksearch.com/ararat.htm

As with the Red Sea crossing site and most other biblical archeology site there is

Evidence is only necessary for, those who need it. For the believer the bible is necessary and sufficient. No other "evidence" is needed or even useful.[/quote]
Exactly!

 

[Heneni]

Then Google it.

My Dear autodidact...i long to see the day when I see you 'soft' side.

I work on dial up here. In my country if you can afford unlimited internet browsing, you have it made. Send me 50 dollars and ill do the research for you. Besides, why pay for it when the chances are 90% youre going to pee pee on it. ? NO?

How you been these days?

 

[themadhair]

I work on dial up here. In my country if you can afford unlimited internet browsing, you have it made. Send me 50 dollars and ill do the research for you

This leads me to make a supposition:
There are a higher proportion of creationists among those with dial-up internet than those with broadband internet.

 

[Heneni]

This leads me to make a supposition:
There are a higher proportion of creationists among those with dial-up internet than those with broadband internet.

Can i have a link?

 

[themadhair]

Can i have a link?

I'm merely remarking that those on dial-up don't have the same level of information access. When I was on dial-up (*shudder*) I often had pictures turned off to boost my internet speed. Downloading pdf's and peer-reviewed papers was an impossibility.

Think of all the information that your limited internet connectivity is preventing you from accessing.

 

[Heneni]

I'm merely remarking that those on dial-up don't have the same level of information access. When I was on dial-up (*shudder*) I often had pictures turned off to boost my internet speed. Downloading pdf's and peer-reviewed papers was an impossibility.

Think of all the information that your limited internet connectivity is preventing you from accessing.

Yes im turning over every bite so to speak. LOL. :help: Right now, the speed of the connection turns it over twice. Its not only the cost of dial up here, but the speed of the connection which makes for many grey hairs and an excellent lesson in patience. By the time i have found you the information, ill be greyer. Im sure you understand. But if I HAVE TOOOoooooo.....

 

[simplytruth]

Here is what I find in Gensis ch 7 v 11
11: In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Then ch 8 vs 13
13: And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth: and Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry

We see here that it was dry, yet Noah did not exit.

Then finally
ch 8 vs 14-16
14: And in the second month, on the seven and twentieth day of the month, was the earth dried.
15: And God spake unto Noah, saying,
16: Go forth of the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons' wives with thee.

I can explain the next part if need be, but I believe in that era a month was exactly 30 days. So a full year would have been 360 days, but they exited 10 days after a full year, which led me to 370 days.

Hello, my name is simplytruth
Perhaps, if allowed, I can shed a little light on the subject.

It appears, that the author is...at first, speaking from the perception of Noah.
(read v. 8 again) You see, the things that Noah did to determine the dryness of
the earth. But Noah is only human, he cannot determine the dryness of the earth!
Thus, the author uses the word "GROUND". Which is the "immediate earth" right
before his eyes. The rest of the earth, may have actually still been extremely soft
and muddy, and not dry enough for vegetation (for food) or animals.

Thus, Noah waited on God. (read v. 13) this verse appears that the author is now
speaking from a more "godly" perspective. He now uses the word "EARTH" to
describe the completeness of dryness. For it is NOW when God commands Noah
to exit the ark.

I hope this helps, if not, I do apologize...

Remain in Truth, Life, and Love

simplytruth

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I love the way you use the word...appears.

Well....it certainly doesn't give the "appearance" any of it it true...

Really, then what is the ark in Turkey doing sitting on a hill? With its own public entrace to go have a look at the site and all. A big hoax ya think? Thumbs up for the Turkey goverment then...anything to get the tourist in right?

Don't believe the hype.....

 

[Dirty Penguin]

So dogs and foxes are different kinds... Horses and donkeys are different kinds... (they can't successfully interbreed as the results are sterile)... Lions and Tigers are different kinds.... (again, infertile offspring )....


wa:do

Isn't there a such thing as a Liger and didn't they crossbred...(well at least while in captivity)...???

So if these particular animals can produce then they're not so infertile....I'm just asking cause I saw a special on TV about them.....but you may be more familiar with the subject than I am.

 

[painted wolf]

I have heard that female ligers may be capable of producing a litter of questionable health... Males are strictly infertile. (both suffer from genetic illnesses)

Generally with animals you have decreasing vigor in hybrids...
Most of the time this is due to the different numbers of chromosomes between the parents. Horses have 64 chromosomes while donkeys have 62... this gives a mule 63... and a slim chance for a female to be able to have offspring. Their offspring may also have lesser fertility.

The only opposite to this is in plants where you have hybrid vigor... hybrids can be healthier and more successful than their parent species... but plants are much more forgiving of chromosomal changes.

wa:do

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The Biblical “kinds” seem to constitute divisions of life-forms where each group allows for cross-fertility within its limits. So dog may be a kind, horse another kind. These cannot successfully interbreed.

Ah. So a "kind" is a species. Glad we cleared that up.

... except it doesn't really make sense with what you said before:

Some investigators have said that, had there been as few as 43 “kinds” of mammals, 74 “kinds” of birds, and 10 “kinds” of reptiles in the ark, they could have produced the variety of species known today. Others have been more liberal in estimating that 72 “kinds” of quadrupeds and less than 200 bird “kinds” were all that were required. That the great variety of animal life known today could have come from inbreeding within so few “kinds” following the Flood is proved by the endless variety of humankind—short, tall, fat, thin, with countless variations in the color of hair, eyes, and skin—all of whom sprang from the one family of Noah.

There are many, many more than a few dozen or even a few hundred species of mammals, birds or reptiles.

 

[painted wolf]

I still love the fact that "kinds" require hyper-evolution.
To get the nearly 3000 species of rodents from a single pair of 'rodent kind' post flood...would require a new species to evolve every six months.... Same for bats.

It's just crazy!

wa:do

 

[themadhair]

For some worms you need mutation rates hundreds of thousands of times faster than normal too.

 

[painted wolf]

Oh geze... I don't even want to get into how many species would have to evolve per day to get beetles!

but now that I think of it... you would need eight species of beetles per year to evolve from a single pair of "beetle kind". More than one species every other month!

wa:do

 

[themadhair]

How would the biogeography of those beetles work out??? And I used to think creations was simpler than science...

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

How would the biogeography of those beetles work out??? And I used to think creations was simpler than science...

Add to that the bizarre ocean currents during the flood that would have pulled soil and fossils off the eastern coast of South America and deposited them along the western coast of Africa and vice versa.

 

[painted wolf]

it boggles the mind!

wa:do

 

[rusra02]

I still love the fact that "kinds" require hyper-evolution.
To get the nearly 3000 species of rodents from a single pair of 'rodent kind' post flood...would require a new species to evolve every six months.... Same for bats.

It's just crazy!

wa:do

A rodent doesn't evolve into a rodent. It may change characteristics but it is still a rodent. And rodents multiply quite quickly. Be that as it may, the One who created the animal and bird 'kinds' can and did see to it they were preserved and live in their resplendent variety. The one true God Jehovah did this when he had Noah build the ark.