The Four Dirty Secrets Against Darwin Evolution

[metis]

And the creation story is more along the lines of a fable to you?

It's most likely a "myth", which does not mean nor imply falsehood in anthropology and theology.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

If you seriously want an answer, we can have a tutorial. I'm retired; I have time. But know that the biochemistry can get complex.

Or I could link to some YouTube videos, at various levels f complexity. simpler.
Then you haven't looked. It's about the most abundantly and consiliently evidenced theory in all of science.

Can you just give me a simple explanation in your own words of what you think happened, that could possibly allow life to suddenly appear?

 

[TrueBeliever37]

It's most likely a "myth", which does not mean nor imply falsehood in anthropology and theology.

So what about what David said in Psalms 33:6 and verse 9? Did David just believe in a myth?

 

[Valjean]

I don't see overwhelming evidence regarding that.

I don't believe we have been here for billions of years. Some things may have changed somewhat in appearance (size for instance) over many years, but not changing from one species into another.

We have not been here for billions of years, but life has.
We have objective, tested, consilient evidence of this. What evidence do you have that life popped into being, fully formed, ex nihilo?
What process would explain such an event?

We have observed speciation; of certain insects, plants, and fish, within a human lifetime.
We've observed the step by step process in action, in certain salamanders and gulls.
We know, have observed, have tested, and have utilized the processes of evolution. Most of the mechanisms are simple, commonsense, and often familiar.

 

[metis]

So what about what David said in Psalms 33:6-9?

It's virtually impossible to know how the author visualized it.

The Creation Accounts make no sense if taken at the literal level but can and do make a great deal of sense if the intent was to teach basic Jewish beliefs of 3000 years ago. It's likely a counter-teaching against the earlier and much more widespread Babylonian account. We know at least some Jews were aware of those latter accounts because of a Babylonian tablet covering as such found in northern Israel.

 

[Balthazzar]

Quit deflecting. You claim man came to exist thru evolution. All you can do is make wild speculations.

Who's side are you batting for? Wild speculations comment has me scratching my head in wonderment.

 

[Balthazzar]

So when it says he is the image of the invisible God you don't think that implies being able to see something?

When he says if you have SEEN me you have SEEN the Father, you think it has nothing to do with seeing?

If seeing equates to an acknowledgment of something true, then maybe. If not, then you'll be hard pressed to convince me it much to do with the eyes and actual sight.

 

[Balthazzar]

We have not been here for billions of years, but life has.
We have objective, tested, consilient evidence of this. What evidence do you have that life popped into being, fully formed, ex nihilo?
What process would explain such an event?

We have observed speciation; of certain insects, plants, and fish, within a human lifetime.
We've observed the step by step process in action, in certain salamanders and gulls.
We know, have observed, have tested, and have utilized the processes of evolution. Most of the mechanisms are simple, commonsense, and often familiar.

Yeah, but have we witnessed and evidenced the macro type evolutionary change that was being dismissed?

 

[Valjean]

If you think we had to evolve into an apelike creature and then into current man. How at creation did man have any of the things you are mentioning in common with God?

First, man and the other apes evolved simultaneously. Taxonomically, we are a species of ape.
"At creation?" You're presupposing that creation was a single event that happened at a specific time. It was not. It's an ongoing process.

We have empirical evidence of this. What evidence do you have that it all happened at once -- or at most in a week?

 

[Valjean]

What can it teach you if you only consider what it says to be a myth?

Aren't there other places where it says things like he spoke the world into existence? Psalms 33:6-9 Did King David just believe in myths?

Apparently, but back in those days we knew almost nothing about the world and how it worked. Magic was a convenient dodge.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

That is because science is never about personality. It relies upon people following the scientific method and properly supporting their claims. Dawkins, like all of us is flawed. His scientific work still hold up. It is his nonscientific beliefs that are getting him in trouble.

Atheists spend so much time wrapping themselves in the denial of God they go to the grave leaving themselves without hope...its kaput when an individual who denies God dies.
A pretty stupid pathway given life for humans is finite and very short.
At least the Christian chooses to place their hat in the ring and therefore has hope in life after death.
You can play around with this all you like, you are choosing kaput. A Christian will never be convinced by the the blind stupidity of kaput.

 

[metis]

At least the Christian chooses to place their hat in the ring and therefore has hope in life after death.

So, all those people who live more than 2000 years ago had no hope? What about those who lived in other areas and never have heard of Jesus?

 

[Valjean]

OK, well let me examine this a bit. Obviously the Urey-Miller experiment put certain elements together and flashed electricity throughout, something changed, as I understand it, a fuzz type thing.

What Was The Miller-Urey Experiment? • Stated Clearly

If the origin of life happened before scientists were around to observe it, how can our origin be studied with the scientific method? This question is answered in our overview of the Miller-Urey experiment.

www.statedclearly.com

Without the start of life according to reason, would evolution have taken place?

Do we have to understand the stellar nucleosynthesis of iron to understand how to manufacture a car engine?
Yes, everything's interconnected, but you don't have to understand everything, all the way back, to understand a specific process.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Quit deflecting. You claim man came to exist thru evolution. All you can do is make wild speculations.

And now you're projecting. Ho hum.

I haven't claimed anything at all.

The only thing I've done is asked you to explain how god(s) created stuff.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Atheists spend so much time wrapping themselves in the denial of God they go to the grave leaving themselves without hope...its kaput when an individual who denies God dies.
A pretty stupid pathway given life for humans is finite and very short.
At least the Christian chooses to place their hat in the ring and therefore has hope in life after death.
You can play around with this all you like, you are choosing kaput. A Christian will never be convinced by the the blind stupidity of kaput.

I love when other people tell me I have no hope because I don't believe in the specific god they believe in.
Cracks me up every time, as I carry on with my hopeful and happy life.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

If you think we had to evolve into an apelike creature and then into current man. How at creation did man have any of the things you are mentioning in common with God?

At creation, humans did not yet exist.

 

[Valjean]

Atheists spend so much time wrapping themselves in the denial of God they go to the grave leaving themselves without hope...its kaput when an individual who denies God dies.

We don't wrap ourselves up in the denial of God. The thought of Him never enters our minds till we find ourselves in discussions like this.
And where did you get the impression that we denied Him? We simply don't believe in him.
Do you deny the existence of the four eyed mudworms of Sirius IV? Of course not. They never entered your mind,

We withhold belief till you claimants can support your premise. I think that's reasonable.

"Without hope?" What does hope have to do with the nature of reality?

A pretty stupid pathway given life for humans is finite and very short.
At least the Christian chooses to place their hat in the ring and therefore has hope in life after death.

But the hope is based on no evidence at all. It's just comforting folklore.

You can play around with this all you like, you are choosing kaput. A Christian will never be convinced by the the blind stupidity of kaput.

???? -- What's Kaput, and why is it stupid, or blind?

 

[SkepticThinker]

I told you where to go to find the answer. But then you totally ignored my question. Don't deflect.

Genesis doesn't provide any kind of detailed explanation as to how it was done, either. Plus it doesn't match what we actually do know about how the universe, the earth and the appearance of life forms.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

What can it teach you if you only consider what it says to be a myth?

Aren't there other places where it says things like he spoke the world into existence? Psalms 33:6-9 Did King David just believe in myths?

Well, let's compare to something we both agree is a myth: The Lord of the Rings by JRR Tolkien. I have learned all sorts of moral lessons from this work of fiction. It says things that cause me to deeply reflect. For example, there is an occasion where Gandalf replies to Frodo who has just said that it was a pity Bilbo didn't kill Gollum when he had the chance. "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement." I have often turned this over in my mind throughout the years.

Basically, fiction is probably the best way possible to teach values. That's why Jesus taught in parables. The fact that the Good Samaritan never actually existed doesn't mean it isn't a first rate story about helping others regardless of their ethnicity.

 

[Valjean]

We don't know exactly how he did it. But He's amazing isn't he? He spoke this vast universe into existence. Now that's power.

No, that's mythology -- and magic.
What actual evidence is there for this?