The Gospel - Is it only that Jesus died or is it that we celebrate The Resurrection?

[Ebionite]

Either way he did just what the account says

The accounts about destroying the temple from Matthew and John are contradictory. In Matthew the source is the false witnesses but in John the source is Jesus. Also the three days of the accounts are refuted by Luke's timeline.

 

[Colt]

The accounts about destroying the temple from Matthew and John are contradictory. In Matthew the source is the false witnesses but in John the source is Jesus.

It wasn’t until the resurrection that the apostles thought back about what he said which indicates that they ALL initially misunderstood him.

 

[Ebionite]

It wasn’t until the resurrection that the apostles thought back about what he said which indicates that they ALL initially misunderstood him.

What do you think that they misunderstood, specifically? There isn't good prophetic support for the early statements made about a resurrection.

 

[Kathryn]

May I ask you what you think God does care about?

Sujre, all sorts of things but not man made time or the ways we divide it up.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

He allowed his body to be killed, the divine being of the Son of God never died.

Interesting that you code the translation that you did with the word “sacrifice”.

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◄ John 10:18 ►

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Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.” New Living Translation No one can take my life from me. I sacrifice it voluntarily. For I have the authority to lay it down when I want to and also to take it up again. For this is what my Father has commanded.” English Standard Version No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.” Berean Standard Bible No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of My own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from My Father.” Berean Literal Bible No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it again. This commandment I received from My Father." King James Bible No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. New King James Version No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.” New American Standard Bible No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it back. This commandment I received from My Father.” NASB 1995 “No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.” NASB 1977 “No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.” Legacy Standard Bible No one takes it away from Me, but from Myself, I lay it down. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.” Amplified Bible No one takes it away from Me, but I lay it down voluntarily. I am authorized and have power to lay it down and to give it up, and I am authorized and have power to take it back. This command I have received from My Father.” Christian Standard Bible No one takes it from me, but I lay it down on my own. I have the right to lay it down, and I have the right to take it up again. I have received this command from my Father.” Holman Christian Standard Bible No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down on My own. I have the right to lay it down, and I have the right to take it up again. I have received this command from My Father.” American Standard Version No one taketh it away from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment received I from my Father. Aramaic Bible in Plain English “No man takes it from me; I am laying it down of my own will, for I am authorized to lay it down, and I am authorized to receive it again; this commandment I have received from my Father.” Contemporary English Version No one takes my life from me. I give it up willingly! I have the power to give it up and the power to receive it back again, just as my Father commanded me to do. Douay-Rheims Bible No man taketh it away from me: but I lay it down of myself, and I have power to lay it down: and I have power to take it up again. This commandment have I received of my Father. English Revised Version No one taketh it away from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment received I from my Father. GOD'S WORD® Translation No one takes my life from me. I give my life of my own free will. I have the authority to give my life, and I have the authority to take my life back again. This is what my Father ordered me to do." Good News Translation No one takes my life away from me. I give it up of my own free will. I have the right to give it up, and I have the right to take it back. This is what my Father has commanded me to do." International Standard Version No one is taking it from me; I lay it down of my own free will. I have the authority to lay it down, and I have the authority to take it back again. This is what my Father has commanded me." Literal Standard Version no one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself; authority I have to lay it down, and authority I have again to take it; this command I received from My Father.” Majority Standard Bible No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of My own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from My Father.” New American Bible No one takes it from me, but I lay it down on my own. I have power to lay it down, and power to take it up again. This command I have received from my Father.” NET Bible No one takes it away from me, but I lay it down of my own free will. I have the authority to lay it down, and I have the authority to take it back again. This commandment I received from my Father." New Revised Standard Version No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it up again. I have received this command from my Father.” New Heart English Bible No one takes it away from me, but I lay it down by myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. I received this commandment from my Father." Webster's Bible Translation No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received from my Father. Weymouth New Testament No one is taking it away from me, but I myself am laying it down. I am authorized to lay it down, and I am authorized to receive it back again. This is the command I received from my Father." World English Bible No one takes it away from me, but I lay it down by myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. I received this commandment from my Father.” Young's Literal Translation no one doth take it from me, but I lay it down of myself; authority I have to lay it down, and authority I have again to take it; this command I received from my Father

..... and the Greek/English Interlinear at John 10:17-18 is:
" Through this me the Father is loving because I am putting the soul of me, in order that again I should receive it.No one lifted up it from me, but I am putting it from myself. Authority I am having to put it, and authority I am having again to receive it; this the commandment i received beside of the Father of me."
Jesus would receive back his pre-human heavenly life because his God would resurrect dead Jesus from the grave - Acts 2:27
- God resurrected Jesus -> see Acts 2:24,32; 3:15; 5:30; 10:40; 13:30,37; Romans 8:11; Colossians 2:12; Ephesians 1:20; Hebrews 13:20
Jesus had authority to receive life again because it was promised to Jesus because of his faithful death that his God would resurrect faithful dead Jesus.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

This symbolism of the resurrection is connected to law; knowledge of good and evil, being superseded. The symbolism was not about making a new law, that says all law is now obsolete, and faith is the way to righteousness, but the rather symbolism made a legal argument that made law obsolete by its own legal standards.

In the Old Testament there was no hell. After one died, they slept. There was no eternal damnation or punishment for a lifetime of sin, like we now have in Christianity. Instead, the extreme punishment for sin, due to the extreme violations of the law, was death in this life. Therefore, if one was killed for their sins, such as stoning for adultery, that was it. Killing by the law, was the ultimate punishment in this life, and the worse that could happen by the law. Killing paid your debt to the law and you could then sleep like the righteous.

The killing by the law, and then the resurrection of Jesus, had the significance in that Jesus, had paid the ultimate penalty for sin, by being killed. The twist was instead of sleeping, he was resurrected; conscious again, and therefore alive again, but was no longer under law, since he had already paid the ultimate price stated by the law.

The Resurrection was like a modern double jeopardy loophole in the law of good and evil, that superseded the law; was outside its legal jurisdiction. It would be like Jesus now had diplomatic immunity in the modern sense. A diplomat can break local laws and is immune. This double jeopardy loophole would create a political debate in Heaven, that divides the Angels; 2 to 1. It had the implication that law for righteousness had been fulfilled, by Jesus, by means of his rebirth and the break within the chain of law.

In Revelations, this political division of the Angels in heaven, turns nasty and leads to war in Heaven. Satan and a third of the Angels are thrown from heaven to the earth, since law was not longer condoned in heaven, due the legal loophole created by God for Jesus. However, the earthlings still grasped at the obsolete past of law, thinking it was still condoned in heaven. Law became the playground of evil; shady lawyers and genocide coded in the laws of tyrants.

If you look in modern USA, law now protects criminals more than their victims, in some Democrat run cities. Thou shall steal; merchandise, cars and now homes. But thou shall not put up a resistance or you will prosecuted. This is a sign of the change in law. Fake news supports this since it is legal to lie. They still believe in political punishment in this life via law; whimsical taboos via the law.

Jesus said, I did not come to bring peace, but rather division. When law was no longer condoned in Heaven; no common sanctioned path for law, law of man became more subjective and relative, such that people could not agree on anything. Relative law could benefit evil as well as good. Law from heaven was designed for only the righteous, but that connection was gone.

Consider this hypothetical scenario. Say we place someone on death row for mass murder and we legally kill them. Atheists law believes that death is the end of life. The medical examiner acknowledges their death, based on the best science. The killed inmate suddenly comes back to life, after being pronounced dead as a door nail, with many medical examiner checkups, over several days. What does the law say? This scenario is not in the law, since it is considered impossible and not ever thought to need addressing. The lawyers would debate and not be able to agree. This is sort of what happened after the resurrection. It broke the chain of classic thinking. Hell on earth breaks loose.

Gosh you did well to make all of that up.

There is no evidence that says the law has been thrown out...you have that completely wrong.

Do a bible search for the phrase "abraham was saved by faith"

If abrahams faith saved him, how do you figure he was saved by the law a thousand years before Christ died for him?

Fulfilling the law does not mean it's end.

Fulfilling the law means Christ paid the wages of sin for us. Sin has always been and remains to transgress the law. We will always be judged by that standard, the difference being that Christ showed us that the pharasees and Saducees had made the law a burden to the people.

Even though we are judged according to the law, in the judgement, those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ are enveloped in a cloak of Christs righteousness...we are deemed not guilty because of that.

search the phrase "we walk in boldly before the throne"

The bible tells us we cannot be saved by works, however this is not talking about keeping the law, or throwing it out.

Search "the patience of the saints are those who keep the law and have the faith of Jesus" (You will find it in the last book of the bible, written 60 years AFTER Christs ressurrection...which focuses on end times and second coming...so it's relevant for us today.)


Finally,

I'm not providing the texts because you need to properly study these things...use a concordance and do some cross referencing in your bible.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The accounts about destroying the temple from Matthew and John are contradictory. In Matthew the source is the false witnesses but in John the source is Jesus. Also the three days of the accounts are refuted by Luke's timeline.

Jesus provided as the basis of his faithfulness so his Father would resurrect him, in that way Jesus was responsible for his resurrection.
To me Matthew 16:21 and John 2:19- 21 do Not contradict, including Luke 24:6-8

 

[Colt]

What do you think that they misunderstood, specifically? There isn't good prophetic support for the early statements made about a resurrection.

The destruction and rebuilding of the Temple.

 

[Colt]

..... and the Greek/English Interlinear at John 10:17-18 is:
" Through this me the Father is loving because I am putting the soul of me, in order that again I should receive it.No one lifted up it from me, but I am putting it from myself. Authority I am having to put it, and authority I am having again to receive it; this the commandment i received beside of the Father of me."
Jesus would receive back his pre-human heavenly life because his God would resurrect dead Jesus from the grave - Acts 2:27
- God resurrected Jesus -> see Acts 2:24,32; 3:15; 5:30; 10:40; 13:30,37; Romans 8:11; Colossians 2:12; Ephesians 1:20; Hebrews 13:20
Jesus had authority to receive life again because it was promised to Jesus because of his faithful death that his God would resurrect faithful dead Jesus.

Authority for God to give him his life back while dead?

I believe that the divine son was saying that he could return on his own volition because he was never dead.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I don't believe God cares about anniversaries and that sort of thing. Just like I decorate a Christmas tree every year and I know the bible says not to adorn trees with gold or silver (Jeremiah 10) but those people it is talking about were worshipping idols and I am worshipping God so there's a difference. So I don't like to take things out of context.

If God does Not care about anniversaries then why is the anniversary of Good Friday important - Luke 22:28-30
God gives us No date for Jesus' birth, but that at age 33 1/2 Jesus died in the Spring day of Nisan 14
Thus, Jesus would have turned 34 in the fall or the autumn of the year but Not Winter

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Authority for God to give him his life back while dead?
I believe that the divine son was saying that he could return on his own volition because he was never dead.

Death is the total price tag that sin pays - Romans 6:23,7
If No death then No price would be paid for the asking price tag for sin
Only the dead go to the grave - Acts 2:27
If Jesus was Not dead he would have never gone to the grave even for a day

 

[Kathryn]

If God does Not care about anniversaries then why is the anniversary of Good Friday important - Luke 22:28-30
God gives us No date for Jesus' birth, but that at age 33 1/2 Jesus died in the Spring day of Nisan 14
Thus, Jesus would have turned 34 in the fall or the autumn of the year but Not Winter

I don't see any reference to Good Friday in Luke 22:28-30. Also, we simply do not know the date of Christ's birth, and I am not going to argue about it with you.

 

[YoursTrue]

Sujre, all sorts of things but not man made time or the ways we divide it up.

What sorts of things do you think He cares about? On the other hand, is there any record that you know about where Jesus celebrated his birthday, encouraged his disciples to celebrate his birthday or attended any birthday celebrations?

 

[Kathryn]

What sorts of things do you think He cares about?

Like I said, all sorts of things but I do not think He cares about man made time or the ways we divide it up.

 

[YoursTrue]

Like I said, all sorts of things but I do not think He cares about man made time or the ways we divide it up.

OK, I can see you don't want to be specific, that's ok. Maybe I'll look at this more another time, thank you.

 

[Kathryn]

OK, I can see you don't want to be specific, that's ok. Maybe I'll look at this more another time, thank you.

It's just easier to say what He's not particularly interested in than what He IS interested in. I mean, it can be a pretty long list.

 

[YoursTrue]

Like I said, all sorts of things but I do not think He cares about man made time or the ways we divide it up.

Come to think of it, when a person goes to confession with a priest, isn't there some concern about what God cares about? And when a baby gets baptized, I would think there is something more than time that is concerned.

 

[YoursTrue]

It's just easier to say what He's not particularly interested in than what He IS interested in. I mean, it can be a pretty long list.

OK, and I can agree with you there... So thanks. Forget my other questions right now.

 

[Colt]

Death is the total price tag that sin pays - Romans 6:23,7
If No death then No price would be paid for the asking price tag for sin
Only the dead go to the grave - Acts 2:27
If Jesus was Not dead he would have never gone to the grave even for a day

Jesus never taught "Christ and him crucified" as some sort on primitive sin debt payment. The changeless God was always forgiving. Killing Jesus was the will of the devil!

 

[YoursTrue]

Jesus never taught "Christ and him crucified" as some sort on primitive sin debt payment. The changeless God was always forgiving. Killing Jesus was the will of the devil!

OK, I hope I'm not interrupting anything here, but since you brought this up, why do you think Adam & Eve died?