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The Gospel - Is it only that Jesus died or is it that we celebrate The Resurrection?

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I suppose one could say Adam was offered a ticket to eternal life, but where ________
Adam was only offered everlasting eternal life on Earth. No ticket offered to anywhere else
So, to me it is No surprise that Jesus offered 'Earth as an eternal inheritance' at Matt. 5:5 from Psalms 37:9-11; 22:26
Thus, originally Earth was Not offered as a stepping stone to anywhere else
Angels already existed in Heaven. Earth was made for -> humans - Psalm 115:16
The figurative living 'sheep' at Jesus' coming Glory Time are alive on Earth and can remain alive on Earth - Matt. 25:31-34,37
So, it is only people like those of Luke 22:28-30; Daniel 7:18 who have a heavenly resurrection - Rev. 20:6; 5:9-10; 2:10
The majority of mankind can have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection on Earth with eternity in view right here on Earth forever
Excessive quoting from a book which has no value for me. 'in eternity' is a paper promise, like seeing the Emperors new clothes if you get your nose cut. You have lost your nose even if you find the Emperor to be standing naked.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
Returned because his God resurrected dead Jesus out of death's deep sleep - Acts 2:27; John 11:11-14; Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalm 115:17
Jesus did Not resurrect himself - Acts 2:24, 32; 3:15; 5:30; 10:40; 13:29; Colossians 2:12; Ephesians 1:20
After being resurrected back to his original heavenly spirit body resurrected Jesus used different materialized bodies to appear to others
Appear only until resurrected Jesus ascended to Heaven - Acts 1:9; Hebrews 9:24
"Destroy this Temple and in 3 days "I" will raise it up again". The son of God who preexisted as the Creator of this world, came down from heaven, lived the human life subject to the will of his Father, laid down his life as he chose, retuned 3 days later in a new form, met with believers and then went back to his rightful place on high.
 

Andrew Stephen

Stephen Andrew
Premium Member
Peace to all,

To me, it seems like the logic is He gave us choice to transfigure as Him to become into His image.

Peace alt,
Stephen
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
"Destroy this Temple and in 3 days "I" will raise it up again". The son of God who preexisted as the Creator of this world, came down from heaven, lived the human life subject to the will of his Father, laid down his life as he chose, retuned 3 days later in a new form, met with believers and then went back to his rightful place on high.
The context and other scriptures must be examined in order to rightly understand what Jesus meant here.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I don't believe God cares about anniversaries and that sort of thing. Just like I decorate a Christmas tree every year and I know the bible says not to adorn trees with gold or silver (Jeremiah 10) but those people it is talking about were worshipping idols and I am worshipping God so there's a difference. So I don't like to take things out of context.
May I ask you what you think God does care about?
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
The context and other scriptures must be examined in order to rightly understand what Jesus meant here.
Jesus meant what he said AND he did it! Jesus returned on his own volition.

No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Jesus meant what he said AND he did it! Jesus returned on his own volition.

No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.
There is the rest of the scripture: "No one can take my life from me. I sacrifice it voluntarily. For I have the authority to lay it down when I want to and also to take it up again. For this is what my Father has commanded.”
So let's put it this way -- he sacrificed his life, right?
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
There is the rest of the scripture: "No one can take my life from me. I sacrifice it voluntarily. For I have the authority to lay it down when I want to and also to take it up again. For this is what my Father has commanded.”
So let's put it this way -- he sacrificed his life, right?
He allowed his body to be killed, the divine being of the Son of God never died.

Interesting that you code the translation that you did with the word “sacrifice”.


John 10:18
Audio Crossref Comment Greek
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

New Living Translation
No one can take my life from me. I sacrifice it voluntarily. For I have the authority to lay it down when I want to and also to take it up again. For this is what my Father has commanded.”

English Standard Version
No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”

Berean Standard Bible
No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of My own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from My Father.”

Berean Literal Bible
No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it again. This commandment I received from My Father."

King James Bible
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

New King James Version
No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

New American Standard Bible
No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it back. This commandment I received from My Father.”

NASB 1995
“No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.”

NASB 1977
“No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.”

Legacy Standard Bible
No one takes it away from Me, but from Myself, I lay it down. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.”

Amplified Bible
No one takes it away from Me, but I lay it down voluntarily. I am authorized and have power to lay it down and to give it up, and I am authorized and have power to take it back. This command I have received from My Father.”

Christian Standard Bible
No one takes it from me, but I lay it down on my own. I have the right to lay it down, and I have the right to take it up again. I have received this command from my Father.”

Holman Christian Standard Bible
No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down on My own. I have the right to lay it down, and I have the right to take it up again. I have received this command from My Father.”

American Standard Version
No one taketh it away from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment received I from my Father.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“No man takes it from me; I am laying it down of my own will, for I am authorized to lay it down, and I am authorized to receive it again; this commandment I have received from my Father.”

Contemporary English Version
No one takes my life from me. I give it up willingly! I have the power to give it up and the power to receive it back again, just as my Father commanded me to do.

Douay-Rheims Bible
No man taketh it away from me: but I lay it down of myself, and I have power to lay it down: and I have power to take it up again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

English Revised Version
No one taketh it away from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment received I from my Father.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
No one takes my life from me. I give my life of my own free will. I have the authority to give my life, and I have the authority to take my life back again. This is what my Father ordered me to do."

Good News Translation
No one takes my life away from me. I give it up of my own free will. I have the right to give it up, and I have the right to take it back. This is what my Father has commanded me to do."

International Standard Version
No one is taking it from me; I lay it down of my own free will. I have the authority to lay it down, and I have the authority to take it back again. This is what my Father has commanded me."

Literal Standard Version
no one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself; authority I have to lay it down, and authority I have again to take it; this command I received from My Father.”

Majority Standard Bible
No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of My own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from My Father.”

New American Bible
No one takes it from me, but I lay it down on my own. I have power to lay it down, and power to take it up again. This command I have received from my Father.”

NET Bible
No one takes it away from me, but I lay it down of my own free will. I have the authority to lay it down, and I have the authority to take it back again. This commandment I received from my Father."

New Revised Standard Version
No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it up again. I have received this command from my Father.”

New Heart English Bible
No one takes it away from me, but I lay it down by myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. I received this commandment from my Father."

Webster's Bible Translation
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received from my Father.

Weymouth New Testament
No one is taking it away from me, but I myself am laying it down. I am authorized to lay it down, and I am authorized to receive it back again. This is the command I received from my Father."

World English Bible
No one takes it away from me, but I lay it down by myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. I received this commandment from my Father.”

Young's Literal Translation
no one doth take it from me, but I lay it down of myself; authority I have to lay it down, and authority I have again to take it; this command I received from my Father
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
He allowed his body to be killed, the divine being of the Son of God never died.

Interesting that you code the translation that you did with the word “sacrifice”.


John 10:18
Audio Crossref Comment Greek
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

New Living Translation
No one can take my life from me. I sacrifice it voluntarily. For I have the authority to lay it down when I want to and also to take it up again. For this is what my Father has commanded.”

English Standard Version
No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”

Berean Standard Bible
No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of My own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from My Father.”

Berean Literal Bible
No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it again. This commandment I received from My Father."

King James Bible
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

New King James Version
No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

New American Standard Bible
No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it back. This commandment I received from My Father.”

NASB 1995
“No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.”

NASB 1977
“No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.”

Legacy Standard Bible
No one takes it away from Me, but from Myself, I lay it down. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.”

Amplified Bible
No one takes it away from Me, but I lay it down voluntarily. I am authorized and have power to lay it down and to give it up, and I am authorized and have power to take it back. This command I have received from My Father.”

Christian Standard Bible
No one takes it from me, but I lay it down on my own. I have the right to lay it down, and I have the right to take it up again. I have received this command from my Father.”

Holman Christian Standard Bible
No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down on My own. I have the right to lay it down, and I have the right to take it up again. I have received this command from My Father.”

American Standard Version
No one taketh it away from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment received I from my Father.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“No man takes it from me; I am laying it down of my own will, for I am authorized to lay it down, and I am authorized to receive it again; this commandment I have received from my Father.”

Contemporary English Version
No one takes my life from me. I give it up willingly! I have the power to give it up and the power to receive it back again, just as my Father commanded me to do.

Douay-Rheims Bible
No man taketh it away from me: but I lay it down of myself, and I have power to lay it down: and I have power to take it up again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

English Revised Version
No one taketh it away from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment received I from my Father.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
No one takes my life from me. I give my life of my own free will. I have the authority to give my life, and I have the authority to take my life back again. This is what my Father ordered me to do."

Good News Translation
No one takes my life away from me. I give it up of my own free will. I have the right to give it up, and I have the right to take it back. This is what my Father has commanded me to do."

International Standard Version
No one is taking it from me; I lay it down of my own free will. I have the authority to lay it down, and I have the authority to take it back again. This is what my Father has commanded me."

Literal Standard Version
no one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself; authority I have to lay it down, and authority I have again to take it; this command I received from My Father.”

Majority Standard Bible
No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of My own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from My Father.”

New American Bible
No one takes it from me, but I lay it down on my own. I have power to lay it down, and power to take it up again. This command I have received from my Father.”

NET Bible
No one takes it away from me, but I lay it down of my own free will. I have the authority to lay it down, and I have the authority to take it back again. This commandment I received from my Father."

New Revised Standard Version
No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it up again. I have received this command from my Father.”

New Heart English Bible
No one takes it away from me, but I lay it down by myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. I received this commandment from my Father."

Webster's Bible Translation
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received from my Father.

Weymouth New Testament
No one is taking it away from me, but I myself am laying it down. I am authorized to lay it down, and I am authorized to receive it back again. This is the command I received from my Father."

World English Bible
No one takes it away from me, but I lay it down by myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. I received this commandment from my Father.”

Young's Literal Translation
no one doth take it from me, but I lay it down of myself; authority I have to lay it down, and authority I have again to take it; this command I received from my Father
In virtually every text there it says he received the commandment from ?? his equal?? no. His Father. But at least you recognize Jesus body died. So what was the sacrifice? By the way, what was he "laying down"?
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
In virtually every text there it says he received the commandment from ?? his equal?? no. His Father. But at least you recognize Jesus body died. So what was the sacrifice? By the way, what was he "laying down"?
A willingness to pass through the death experience of a human while remaining alive as a divine being. He waited three days and returned in his natural spiritual form.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Jesus meant what he said AND he did it! Jesus returned on his own volition.

No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.
He said he had power because God gave him the power to take his what? body? life? temple? back again...He likened his body to his temple. So what exactly did he get back?
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
He waited three days
According to the timeline in Luke the body was only in the tomb for two nights and one day, off by a factor of two when compared with the sign of Jonah.

The factor of two relates to the two central characters of the crucifixion:

Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man [that is] my fellow, saith YHWH of armies: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
Zechariah 13:7
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
A willingness to pass through the death experience of a human while remaining alive as a divine being. He waited three days and returned in his natural spiritual form.
OK, he, you say, as equal to God, was willing to pass through the death experience. But then you say he remained alive as a divine being. He waited three days. When humans die, what happens to them?
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
"Destroy this Temple and in 3 days "I" will raise it up again"
That was from the false witnesses.
But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, [yet] found they none. At the last came two false witnesses,
And said, This [fellow] said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.
Matthew 26:60-61

False witnesses did rise up; they laid to my charge [things] that I knew not.
Psalms 35:11
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
A willingness to pass through the death experience of a human while remaining alive as a divine being. He waited three days and returned in his natural spiritual form.
So how was that a sacrifice if he was willing to pass through the death experience of a human while yet remaining alive as a divine being?
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
OK, he, you say, as equal to God, was willing to pass through the death experience. But then you say he remained alive as a divine being. He waited three days. When humans die, what happens to them?
Jesus was human AND divine. Only the human form that the Son took on while on earth died and returned to dust!

Jesus isn’t equal to his father, but he has divine powers given to him.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
So how was that a sacrifice if he was willing to pass through the death experience of a human while yet remaining alive as a divine being?
When one gives their time and effort that can be called a sacrifice. Jesus made a sacrifice by coming down from his glory in heaven to go through the human drama.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
That was from the false witnesses.
But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, [yet] found they none. At the last came two false witnesses,
And said, This [fellow] said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.
Matthew 26:60-61

False witnesses did rise up; they laid to my charge [things] that I knew not.
Psalms 35:11
That’s a direct quote from Jesus. They thought he spoke of the actual Temple, he pointed to his own body.
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
That’s a direct quote from Jesus. They thought he spoke of the actual Temple, he pointed to his own body.
No, it was from the false witnesses. The account in the gospel of John was from the Pharisees - that gospel has insider knowledge and favours the Pharisees' point of view. The account from Matthew is consistent with the prophetic references to the righteous servant (Isaiah 53, Psalm 35).
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
No, it was from the false witnesses. The account in the gospel of John was from the Pharisees - that gospel has insider knowledge and favours the Pharisees' point of view. The account from Matthew is consistent with the prophetic references to the righteous servant (Isaiah 53, Psalm 35).
Either way he did just what the account says, he allowed his body to be killed for all to see and waited three days to return as a spiritual being.
 
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