Your example fails as "Who has the fastest speed record within 100 seconds" is a question there can only be one answer to. "Greatest", on the other hand, is a word with several possible definitions.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
The Growing Greatness of Muhammad (S+) In The Eyes of Much of The World
- Thread starter al-amiyr
- Start date
Your example fails as "Who has the fastest speed record within 100 seconds" is a question there can only be one answer to. "Greatest", on the other hand, is a word with several possible definitions.
CynthiaCypher
Well-Known Member
If that's the criteria then I nominate Robert Oppenheimer has the Greatest Human Being
al-amiyr
Active Member
Good point!
dyanaprajna2011
Dharmapala
The problem is, is that you're expecting to apply objective criteria where there are none. It's impossible to say, because there are no established objective criteria, nor can there be.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
Just few informations about prophet Mohammed.
[youtube]uLptFKCnVnc[/youtube]
WHO IS MUHAMMAD ? - YouTube
[youtube]uLptFKCnVnc[/youtube]
WHO IS MUHAMMAD ? - YouTube
RedJamaX
Active Member
Al-Amiyr, I am curious to know, where else might I find historical information on Muhammed, other than The Quraan? In my recetn quest for information, I do not just limit that to understanding teachings, but I would also like to find information on the source, the origins of different religions as well.
Can you point me to other ancient documented sources that tell of Muhammed?
Thanks!
al-amiyr
Active Member
Yes! Firstly the Qur'aan does not contain the life story of Muhammad (S+) but there are the hadiyth wherein every detail of his life is recorded. Everything he said and all his explanations of the Qur'aan. These are all the stories recorded of all the people whoever met him even if it was only once they were in his company. These hadiyth even contain negative reports of the prophet which in other hadiyth they are shown to be inaccurate. There never was a body of literature in all humany that underwent such a rigorous process of verification and elimination. Let me direct you to one book Al-Adab al-Mufrad al-Bukhari
Just paste it in Google . You will see the Sunnipath Website
Fingon was a true general.
Fingon standing proudly; ready for battle.
Theoden was a great general.
Gandalf .....
It seems what is in the heart is as powerful as what lieth in the mind.
Oh! Now you're speaking the language of my heart... mae govannen, mellon nin
al-amiyr
Active Member
Oh! Now you're speaking the language of my heart... mae govannen, mellon nin
Hannan le, mellon.
Ha ha! Unfortunately I can't frubal you again so soon from the last one, it won't allow me.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Jesus, Guttenburg, Ghandi, Shakespeare, Isaac Newton, John Paul II, Steve Jobs, Oprah Winfrey, etc.
apophenia
Well-Known Member
Have a look at the icons on top of the reply edit box.
One of then looks like a thought bubble with text in it. That is the quote tool.
If you mark some text in the reply edit box, then click that quote icon, the text will appear inside a shaded box.
If I type ...
Example line.
...then select that text and click the quote icon (the thought bubble with text) , I get this -
So any text can be copied and pasted in the edit box, and enclosed in quotes.
Lady B
noob
Thank you and the other member that offered me help, I will give it a shot !
1robin
Christian/Baptist
Yes, and justice and sometimes wrath.
There is no evidence that he ever did hurt anything when he was on earth. I do not see what this has to do with anything. Why is it you are so obsessed with this?
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
1robin
Christian/Baptist
That is not what the history books show. Claiming that he only defended his people 68 times and was defending himself when attacks on unarmed caravans were ordered, and never acted offensively is obsurd.
The laws given to Jews for a certain period of time that has been over for 2000 years is not a perfect relfection of his character. The example of Jesus' life was meant as the most accurate and clear reflection of who God is. We were not discussing which God is greatest anyway and so this is irrelevant.
Yes, but it would not matter if I hadn't. His symptoms are exactly the very ones given in the bible and by modern exorcists as indications of demon influence or possesion.
No one that killed as many people, some completely defenceless, ordered as many cruel acts of retribution, and had habits so brutal can even be put in the same category as Christ. He was not even a good man much less a prophet.
There is no such thing as historical evidence of miracles or virtually no such thing. Science can only evaluate natural law. Of course you believe the opposite of virtually every expert on the subject. You have to if you didn't your religion would collapse. Your beliefs determine what is true for you. The truth determines what my beliefs are.
Denying the truth is a bad thing made necessary by a false religion. When Muhammad was peddling his religion around Arabia, a crowd said his teachings were non sence. They said if you want us to believe you then DO MIRACLES AS THE BIBLICAL PROPHETS DID. They are by far the most effective way to illustrate that your message is backed by the divine. I will not follow down a false rabbit hole on this issue anymore there is bottom to it and you are incapable of thinking other than what you do.
Actually my claim here was not worded correctly. He did enough terrible, despicable, and diabolical things to easily conclude he is in no way from God. However saying he did every one was a little too hyperbolic.
Is up down and left right, would you deny the moon exists if it's existance threatened your religion. There are many stories of biblical prophets sinning and being punished. Moses was stopped from entering the promised land, David killed someone and God took his son, Solomon became a idolater, Muhammad ordered the death of hundreds, brutally cut hands and feet off of helpless people who had surrendered. Your claim is about as opposite to history as any claim can be. You say they never sinned, Islam legally refers to them as sinless but believes they did sin, Christianity says only Jesus was sinless. The first two are lies and as usually only the bible which contains more of these prophets that the other two religions put together tells like it is. If a religion forces you to believe the sun is dark, ice is hot, and the earth is square, the wise man rejects that religion he does not adopt it and them argue for those bogus claims. I guess if you views do not conform to reality then the only thing left is to adapt reality.
In a discussion about who is the greates man, the man who could not conquor death takes a back seat to one who could and did.
The greatest expert on evidence and testimony (Simon Greenleaf) in Human history says that the textual evidence (affidavits) contained in the gospels meet every standard of modern law. His credentials more than superceed yours. He litaerally wrote the book on evidence presentation.
You deny a fact contained in many historical testimonies and predicted by over hundred prophecies, and then make one that does not have a single scrap of evidence and no witness testimony. The double standards and denial of reality forced on you by Baha'i is depressing to see.
That does not make any sence. The bible is not copied from the old testament and it has more proof and evidence than any event in the old testament. In fact the NT and Jesus have more teaxtual evidence by many many times over than any figure or text in ancient history. Of course that is reality and inconvenient for Baha'i so reject away.
The noted scholar, Professor Edwin Gordon Selwyn, says: "The fact that Christ rose from the dead on the third day in full continuity of body and soul - that fact seems as secure as historical evidence can make it."
Evidence That Demands a Verdict - Ch. 10 p. 2
You can find dozens and dozens of world leading experts in evidence and history at that link that dissagree with everything you have said so far and are far more competant in the field than me and you put together.
Only to someone who does not understand the bible very well. The bible says that the anti-christ is he who denies that Christ is he. By he it means the messiah, unique son of God, who by his death and resurrection became the savior. Muhammad denied this and I think you get it. Also every name given to the anti-Christ is a middle eastern title. Prince of Tyre, Pharoah, etc...... It is also said that the anti-christ system will be one that does not care for the rights of women and is a violent religion. It kind of all points one way, but I am not getting into a revelations debate with someone who decides what the bible means based on preference. Peace.
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
Any proofs to back up your claim?
It is relevant, because, just as God had ordered to kill those who do not keep the Sabbath, He also ordered Muhammad to fight against the ones who attacked Moslems, and were trying to stop the light of God.
It matters, because, first you need to establish based on scientific evidence, that there is such a thing as demon possession, then you can make such a claim.
What symptoms are given in the Bible? You need to back-up your claim.
If you ask me about demon possession, these are just superstitious. I think there are people who are superstitious-lover as well as people who are Truth-Lover.
This is false in terms of both Historical evidence and as well as saying He was not a prophet.
If there is no such thing as historical evidence of miracles, then it is your belief that Jesus or other Prophets did Miracles to establish their religion.
I would say those crowds were not after truth.
"Only a corrupted generation ask for Miracles" - Jesus
You just claiming things with nothing to back it up.
Again, I have a different interpretation of the Holy Scriptures.
All Messengers of God are sinless perfectly. All the Biblical stories which apparently rebukes the Prophets, in reality are directed to the people, through a wisdom which is absolute mercy, in order that the people may not be discouraged and heart-broken.
Although it seems outwardly to be addressed to the Prophets; but in fact they are for the people and not for the Prophets.
As the Prophets are the expression of the whole of the people therefore when the speech of God is addressed to the Prophet it is addressed to all People.
Read those stories carefully please, and you can see it for yourself.
This is your opinion.
I am not denying. You have an interpretation of the Bible which is more literal. I do not believe those stories of Bible are to be interpreted literally.
You have nothing to back-up your claim that there was any Miracle in the past.
It is all symbolical. For example Moses had a Rod. His rod is the Symbol of Wisdom, by which He was able to overcome His enemies.
Read "Some Answered Questions" By Abdulbaha for the proofs.
I did not say it is copied from old testament.
The point is that, it is always easy to claim a Holy Book is copied from previous ones, as you did in the case of Quran, with no proof.
That is false in my view. It is not biblical. neither any historical proofs.
What Muhammad said about Jesus, is exactly what the Bible says about Jesus.
In my opinion, unfortunately because there are some fanatic Christian Religious Leaders around who constantly say false and biased things against Muhammad, They mislead Christians and caused them not to recognize Prophet Muhammad. Fortunately their hand is short from government and state, otherwise they would be the cause of the 3rd World War.
"Inasmuch as the Christian divines have failed to apprehend the meaning of these words, and did not recognize their object and purpose, and have clung to the literal interpretation of the words of Jesus, they therefore became deprived of the streaming grace of the Muḥammadan Revelation and its showering bounties. The ignorant among the Christian community, following the example of the leaders of their faith, were likewise prevented from beholding the beauty of the King of glory... " Baha'u'llah, Book of Iqan
Last edited:
CynthiaCypher
Well-Known Member
Oh yeah. Which on of them invented a weapon that could wipe out most of humanity?
1robin
Christian/Baptist
His cutting of hands and feet of the Qurish tribe alone was certainly not defensive.
Then the apostle heard that Abu Sufyan was coming from Syria with a large caravan of Qurish, containing their money and merchandise, accompanied by some thirty or forty men When the Apostle heard about Abu Sufyan coming from Syria, he summoned the Muslims and said, "This is the Quraish caravan containing their property. Go out to attack it, perhaps Allah will give it as a prey." (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 428)
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Muhammad/myths-mu-badr.htm
Their is plenty more historical facts there that you can dismiss and explain away if they contradict your position.
You are ignoring many things. The acts in the old testament were the shadows of things clearly revealed in the new testament. Jesus was the clear revelation and he never killed or instructed anyone to kill anyone else. He taught the exact opposite. Muhammad simply claimed God gave him permission to justify his lust for power and wealth. It seems every time he wanted someone elses wife or money, or anything else he conveniently had God declare he could do so. It is classic tyrant behavior.
No I do not. These matters occurring are based on the historical method. They are recorded by his own followers, biographers, and wives. The issues surrounding demon possession are well documented and catalogued. Supernatural events are not detectable by natural methods. Science only deals with a narrow band or reality. There is no justification or excuse for asserting it as the sole arbiter of truth. His episodes exactly match every detail recorded in the bible or Catholic records and many secular studies concerning this issue. Empirical methods no more apply to demonic possession than they do to schizophrenia.
No this is inconvenient for you position and so is discarded by the presence of a cognitive dissonance stronger that I have ever seen. It is a matter of history. I would post the documents but they will do not good as you reject everything that contradicts your claims. Christ did not marry a six year old.
There is no historical proof. There is evidence. Evidence strong enough to hold up in modern courtrooms. Witness testimony is used in every form of the historical method.
Are you suggesting that people who desire some form of proof (which he admitted he couldn't do until he saw they would reject him then completely reversed his stance and said the Quran was a miracle which it isn't) from someone who says they are from God are not justified? We are instructed to test anyone from God. The fact they were asking for it shows they were searching for the truth. Your distortions are tragic. The times in the bible when Jesus refused was when the Pharisees on asked in order to contend with him so don't add your misunderstanding of that to the mix.
Of what use is proof when talking to someone who let's preference dictate what is true. Baha'i is famous or infamous for that. I spent a long time giving you information about verses so iron clad that to dismiss it reveals a level of cognitive dissonance that is indescribable. If it didn't work then why would it help now?
1robin
Christian/Baptist
[/quote] I know you do you make up whatever is necessary to allow Baha'i to survive. Tell me this when God says that Solomon was an idolater and keeps Moses out of the promise land because of disobedience and then you declare they were sinless who's side do you think you are on. You are calling God a liar.
No it isn't that was just what you had to do to make it fit with your theology.
No it isn't he literally wrote the statutes that are used for evidence presentation used in courtrooms around the world. I use to work on federal court rooms and have seen them. He also created one of the most respected if not the most respected law schools on Earth. Harvard. Whether you agree or not and I imagine you won't if it is inconvenient that he is the greatest in history. I defy you to present any reason not to believe his judgments and claims on the issue. Present any one with greater credentials or is more respected in the field. Will you tell Einstein and Newton their physics is wrong, Neil's Bore that his math is wrong, Riemann that his equation is false, Collins that his genome work is messed up, or tell God what his scriptures mean if that is the only way to retain faith in your religion?
There is no possible way or reason to adopt a symbolic interpretation other than total preference. By no rule that exists in Biblical textual scholarship is you position tenable.
My Gosh. Just when I think it can't be more ridiculous. Moses was not known for his Rod. It was Aaron’s rod that he on occasion carried. It is also that rod that was put in the Ark of the Covenant. You are surely not suggesting that he put his wisdom in the ark. What about the snakes the Egyptians produced. Aaron’s rod ate them. Are you forced by your religion to say that Aaron's wisdom ate the Egyptians wisdom? Is there anything that will not be distorted to protect your position?
I was pretty sure you did but who cares. It is a fact that many of the stories Muhammad recorded preexisted him in groups of heretic and gnostic Jews that were run out of Israel and went to Arabia. They also are completely different from the bible which was written much closer to the time of the events themselves and by the historical method are therefore more reliable. For example he thought the trinity included Mary. No actual Christian has ever believed taht but a heretical group in Arabia at the time did.
You would believe anything false no matter who said if you found it inconvenient. The scholar I quoted is far far far more knowledgeable about the subject than you. I have never seen preference determine truth to this extent in my life. I can provide many many more top experts all claiming the same thing I can point out that the witness testimony for the Crucifixion and resurrection is greater than any event in antiquity. Nothing matters. Facts, history, logic, expert testimony etc. are all subordinate to what you want to be true. I still like you but it is getting harder and harder to justify debating something with someone who only cares what he wishes to be true.
Would you reject gravity if gravity was inconvenient? The bible says Jesus was the son of God, Muhammad (who shows up over 500 hundred years later) says no, The bible says he was crucified dead and buried, Muhammad (who never met him) said no, The Bible says he was ressurected from death, Muhammad (who was not a witness) said he either swooned - was raised without dyeing- or was never crucified to start off with. The bible says he was the savior of the world, Muhammad (who was no prophet) said he was only a prophet. I can keep going but facts have no effect so why bother. Your beliefs have forced you to reject the conclusions of the experts in many fields without explenation, forced you to violate every rule of biblical exegesis. has forced you into an understand of scripture that renders it meaningless and illogical, etc..