The Growing Greatness of Muhammad (S+) In The Eyes of Much of The World

[FearGod]

It was necessary but unpleasant.

No i don't think it was necessary at all to treat your lord as an ordinary man for whatever reason.no kidding or gimmick in religion

 

[1robin]

No i don't think it was necessary at all to treat your lord as an ordinary man for whatever reason.no kidding or gimmick in religion

My Lord lived as a man and said he did not feel cheated to do it. What was his honor to do is my honor to acknowledge.

 

[FearGod]

My Lord lived as a man and said he did not feel cheated to do it. What was his honor to do is my honor to acknowledge.

Lived as a man,but he is the lord,isn't he.
Do you mean if the lord chose to live as a man,then he isn't still the lord .
you are confusing me with the concept of your belief.

 

[Lady B]

Do not be confused, Christ did humble himself and become man. but he was never 50% God and 50% man he was 100% God and 100% man, I believe what He is saying is, If christ was not ashamed to be seen as a man why then should she not compare him as a man.

 

[1robin]

Lived as a man,but he is the lord,isn't he.
Do you mean if the lord chose to live as a man,then he isn't still the lord .
you are confusing me with the concept of your belief.

He is Lord of Lords and King of Kings but to compare him with Muhammad when he is at his full divine capacity and stregnth is like comparing the sun to a flashlight. I was comparing him as he was in human form and diminished power as our principle figure against Islam's principle and really only figure. Those are comparable but I admit still quite unfair. The point was the main thing and I believe it did the job. Muhammad would not fair well against any common descent man but what the heck. Regardless I wish to let this thread get back on track and do not wish to cause any squabbles between Christians.

 

[FearGod]

He is Lord of Lords and King of Kings but to compare him with Muhammad when he is at his full divine capacity and stregnth is like comparing the sun to a flashlight. I was comparing him as he was in human form and diminished power as our principle figure against Islam's principle and really only figure. Those are comparable but I admit still quite unfair. The point was the main thing and I believe it did the job. Muhammad would not fair well against any common descent man but what the heck. Regardless I wish to let this thread get back on track and do not wish to cause any squabbles between Christians.

Do you mean the sun light hurt but the flashlight don't hurt.

When god was in human form,so only what changed is the body,even if god
is %100 in human form,still his charcter is of the lord,human body shouldn't change god's character and how we could understand that the father and the son is one.

i can find no single reason for you to compare your lord,as father or son with an ordinary human being.

 

[Meow Mix]

My basis for "greatest" doesn't really include military victories or spiritual influence; so my choice for "greatest person" would be either Isaac Newton or Albert Einstein.

The reasons for this is because it seems to me that over time religion will diminish as science and secular metaphysics continue to unlock the secrets of the universe; and that the accomplishments of religious leaders will ultimately be futile (and in some cases, even contrary to real progress).

Newton may have been a deeply religious man, but he contributed epic leaps to mathematics and the natural sciences -- those unprecedented advancements truly brought us out of the realm of guessing in the dark into making real models that described and predicted reality; models which allowed us to begin increasing the quality of human life through technology.

Einstein, a Spinozan pantheist, revolutionized our understanding of the universe in much the same way as Newton; albeit the paradigm change wasn't quite as neck breaking. Still, most of what we do today would be impossible without Einstein's revolution. Of course, we shouldn't forget that if Newton or Einstein have seen far, it's because they stood on the shoulders of giants -- Mach, Noether (gasp! a woman!), Leibniz, etc.

I think on a list of greatest people I would first put those that made lasting, epic contributions to future paradigms and then eventually down the list I would include those whose contributions "merely" consisted of military victories or spiritual influence. This does simply point back to the fact that what people categorize as "great" or "significant" is ultimately subjective.

 

[1robin]

Do you mean the sun light hurt but the flashlight don't hurt.

I didn't get this but I am stupid. Type slower.

When god was in human form,so only what changed is the body,even if god
is %100 in human form,still his charcter is of the lord,human body shouldn't change god's character and how we could understand that the father and the son is one.

I do not wish to debate Christ in a Muhammad thread. This issue is debateable but he at the very least did not exercise his full divine capacity.

i can find no single reason for you to compare your lord,as father or son with an ordinary human being.

That is not a prerequisite for me to do so and so is irrelevant. Paul did so and his credentials supercede yours.

Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross
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[InvestigateTruth]

Muhammad killed many people and fought in or ordered 68 battles and countless violent actions.

He defended and fought against those who planned to kill and harm the Moslems.

There is no evidence Christ killed another living thing.

Ok, but didn't God order whoever does not keep the sabbath, to be put to death?

Muhammad had physical symptoms that are perfectly consistent with demon possesion when he had revelations that freightened others.

Have you seen demon possesion?

Christ had the composer of a child and had the most comforting effect on most everyone around him.

So did Muhammad. He was the cause of advancement of the Arabs.

Muhammad flat refused to do any miracles that would have proven his authority, when he was asked as the biblical prophets had done.

There is no historical evidence Biblical prophets did any miracles. This is your literal interpretation. In my view, those are symbolic.

Christ did countless miracles.

There is no Historical evidence. What benefit Miracle has for humanity anyways?
The greateness of Christ can be seen in His teachings.

Muhammad performed almost every dispicable act known to man

.

Really?

Christ never commited an single sin.

Agreed. Other Messengers including Muhammad never did any sins either.

Muhammad is in the ground after being poisened by the wife of a man he killed.

So what?

The grave had no power over Christ and he sits at the right hand of the father.

There is no historical evidence Jesus raised physically. This is what you believe based on literal interpretation.
I believe both Jesus and Muhammad are alive in the spiritual world of God and they are both equally near to God.

Muhammad repeated distorted biblical doctrine he heard from heretical Jews in Arabia and claimed they are the words of God.

This is what some Jews also say about Christian Bible. They say it is copied from Old Testament.
No proofs.

Christ predicted the future, never falsely quoted scripture, and never made any claim that is demostratably false.

I agree.

Muhammad claimed about Christ

what the bible claims would be said by the anti-Christ.

Does not make any sense.

Yeah some kind of guy. Can what is below be said about him by even his critics?

Ok.

 

[1robin]

He defended and fought against those who planned to kill and harm the Moslems.


Ok, but didn't God order whoever does not keep the sabbath, to be put to death?


Have you seen demon possesion?


So did Muhammad. He was the cause of advancement of the Arabs.



There is no historical evidence Biblical prophets did any miracles. This is your literal interpretation. In my view, those are symbolic.


There is no Historical evidence. What benefit Miracle has for humanity anyways?
The greateness of Christ can be seen in His teachings.


Really?


Agreed. Other Messengers including Muhammad never did any sins either.


So what?


There is no historical evidence Jesus raised physically. This is what you believe based on literal interpretation.
I believe both Jesus and Muhammad are alive in the spiritual world of God and they are both equally near to God.



This is what some Jews also say about Christian Bible. They say it is copied from Old Testament.
No proofs.



I agree.


Does not make any sense.


Ok.

You pop up in the strangest places. Hi investigate. I will destroy all this when I have time. Half of it already has been in other threads with me and you. Getting a Baha'i to acknowledge the obvious if it conflicts with his world view even when it is in another religion that they apparently know very little about, is indeed a hard task.

 

[Lady B]

seriously I wish someone would teach me how to do that!!, how do I put text between quotes? the easy way.

 

[FearGod]

I didn't get this but I am stupid. Type slower.

I do not wish to debate Christ in a Muhammad thread. This issue is debateable but he at the very least did not exercise his full divine capacity.

That is not a prerequisite for me to do so and so is irrelevant. Paul did so and his credentials supercede yours.

Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross
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Do you believe that your lord Jesus christ is the lord of love and peace.
Do you believe that your lord never hurt or do any harm to anyone on earth.

 

[Meow Mix]

seriously I wish someone would teach me how to do that!!, how do I put text between quotes? the easy way.

Let's say that you wanted to break this post into two quotes and type between them. This is a 2nd sentence.

You would type (using brackets [] instead of parentheses):

(quote=Meow Mix)Let's say that you wanted to break this post into two quotes and type between them.(/quote)

Your statements here.

(quote=Meow mix)This is a 2nd sentence.(/quote)

Your statements here.

------------------------

So it would look like (and all I did was change the parentheses into brackets):

Let's say that you wanted to break this post into two quotes and type between them.

Your statements here.

This is a 2nd sentence.

Your statements here.

 

[al-amiyr]

My basis for "greatest" doesn't really include military victories or spiritual influence; so my choice for "greatest person" would be either Isaac Newton or Albert Einstein.

The reasons for this is because it seems to me that over time religion will diminish as science and secular metaphysics continue to unlock the secrets of the universe; and that the accomplishments of religious leaders will ultimately be futile (and in some cases, even contrary to real progress).

Newton may have been a deeply religious man, but he contributed epic leaps to mathematics and the natural sciences -- those unprecedented advancements truly brought us out of the realm of guessing in the dark into making real models that described and predicted reality; models which allowed us to begin increasing the quality of human life through technology.

Einstein, a Spinozan pantheist, revolutionized our understanding of the universe in much the same way as Newton; albeit the paradigm change wasn't quite as neck breaking. Still, most of what we do today would be impossible without Einstein's revolution. Of course, we shouldn't forget that if Newton or Einstein have seen far, it's because they stood on the shoulders of giants -- Mach, Noether (gasp! a woman!), Leibniz, etc.

I think on a list of greatest people I would first put those that made lasting, epic contributions to future paradigms and then eventually down the list I would include those whose contributions "merely" consisted of military victories or spiritual influence. This does simply point back to the fact that what people categorize as "great" or "significant" is ultimately subjective.

I agree with the reasoning and add that if one does not know one cannot form a true opinion. When I was a little boy I thought that my father was the cleverest and strongest man in the world. I would argue with all the little boys and girls and teachers. But as time went on and knowledge grew I began to see the world beyond the vision of my own eyes. In the thread earlier I also made example of Isaac Newton as an example of the greatest of men. If one did not know about Isaac Newton one would never know how to rank him. It all depends on how much one knows about the great men and women who lived in the world. As far as Muhammad (S+) is concerned his future looks brighter everyday. Again to me it all depends on how much one knows.

 

[9Westy9]

Again to me it all depends on how much one knows.

Even if we had all the knowledge possible about every person in the world, we'd still have different opinions because of the subjectivity of the term "greatest"

 

[Meow Mix]

I agree with the reasoning and add that if one does not know one cannot form a true opinion. When I was a little boy I thought that my father was the cleverest and strongest man in the world. I would argue with all the little boys and girls and teachers. But as time went on and knowledge grew I began to see the world beyond the vision of my own eyes. In the thread earlier I also made example of Isaac Newton as an example of the greatest of men. If one did not know about Isaac Newton one would never know how to rank him. It all depends on how much one knows about the great men and women who lived in the world. As far as Muhammad (S+) is concerned his future looks brighter everyday. Again to me it all depends on how much one knows.

It's true that we must know of a person's accomplishments and their ramifications to accurately rank them, even if subjectively. Still, I can't find myself ranking spiritual leaders or military strategists very high because those sorts of accomplishments don't seem "great" to me -- that is, unless I were asked, "Who is a great general?" or "Who is a great spiritual leader?" (To which I would include Mohammed very high on the list to either)

I tend to value secular accomplishments in thinking and in improving the quality of life for humanity more; but that's just my subjective view on what "greatness" is. Perhaps it's because I'm a humanist?

 

[al-amiyr]

It's true that we must know of a person's accomplishments and their ramifications to accurately rank them, even if subjectively. Still, I can't find myself ranking spiritual leaders or military strategists very high because those sorts of accomplishments don't seem "great" to me -- that is, unless I were asked, "Who is a great general?" or "Who is a great spiritual leader?" (To which I would include Mohammed very high on the list to either)

I tend to value secular accomplishments in thinking and in improving the quality of life for humanity more; but that's just my subjective view on what "greatness" is. Perhaps it's because I'm a humanist?

Fingon was a true general.


Fingon standing proudly; ready for battle.
Theoden was a great general.
Gandalf .....
It seems what is in the heart is as powerful as what lieth in the mind.

 

[FearGod]

He defended and fought against those who planned to kill and harm the Moslems.


Ok, but didn't God order whoever does not keep the sabbath, to be put to death?


Have you seen demon possesion?


So did Muhammad. He was the cause of advancement of the Arabs.



There is no historical evidence Biblical prophets did any miracles. This is your literal interpretation. In my view, those are symbolic.


There is no Historical evidence. What benefit Miracle has for humanity anyways?
The greateness of Christ can be seen in His teachings.


Really?


Agreed. Other Messengers including Muhammad never did any sins either.


So what?


There is no historical evidence Jesus raised physically. This is what you believe based on literal interpretation.
I believe both Jesus and Muhammad are alive in the spiritual world of God and they are both equally near to God.



This is what some Jews also say about Christian Bible. They say it is copied from Old Testament.
No proofs.



I agree.


Does not make any sense.


Ok.

Thank you investigateTruth for your some good points such as that Jews thought of Jesus pbuh as the false messiah and that he was just a lier which of course according to our belief he is a great lovely messenger and we make no difference between him and Mohammed pbuh and i found it silly to try to compare one messenger with another one,its like giving you 2 apples from the same tree and asking you which one is much delicious.

Say (O Muhammad): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and that which was vouchsafed unto Moses and Jesus and the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered. (3:84)

And the most amazing is that most christians believe that Jesus pbuh is god,as a part of the trinity which is one god consisting of 3 parts,and then he is comparing what supposed to be god's part as human body(Jesus) with an ordinary man called prophet mohammed,so even his post don't worth a detailed reply,because its irrational from the beginning from christian perspective that most if not all christians won't agree to compare god or son of god with any ordinary human.

So let us see and wait what new ideas he is preparing for you in his next post.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

As Meow pointed out, everyone has different criteria for defining who they think are some of the greatest people who ever lived. Just like in a person's taste in music or movies, it's all subjective. There can be no objective, absolute definition of who the greatest person would be. To a Muslim, it would certainly be Mohammed. To a Christian, it would be Jesus of Nazareth. To me, as a Buddhist, it would be Siddhartha Gautama. To a guitar player, it might be someone like Jimi Hendrix or Eric Clapton. These are all subjective and relative. One could argue why they thought someone like Mohammed is the greatest person who ever lived, and I could counter with why I think that Siddhartha Gautama was greater. Again, that's all subjective and relative. So the debate is basically futile.

 

[al-amiyr]

As Meow pointed out, everyone has different criteria for defining who they think are some of the greatest people who ever lived. Just like in a person's taste in music or movies, it's all subjective. There can be no objective, absolute definition of who the greatest person would be. To a Muslim, it would certainly be Mohammed. To a Christian, it would be Jesus of Nazareth. To me, as a Buddhist, it would be Siddhartha Gautama. To a guitar player, it might be someone like Jimi Hendrix or Eric Clapton. These are all subjective and relative. One could argue why they thought someone like Mohammed is the greatest person who ever lived, and I could counter with why I think that Siddhartha Gautama was greater. Again, that's all subjective and relative. So the debate is basically futile.

The debate is not futile. This is not about thinking whom you think is the greatest. This is about achievement in life and about direct influence on the society and the world. To put it simply," Who has the fastest speed record within 100 seconds." There is an answer and it, in my opinion, would be dishonesty if not answered when known.