The hated muslim

[fullyveiled muslimah]

Terrorists and extremists are not the only problems we face; why are you expecting that our voice should be loud when it comes to terrorism if our voice is always low or absent when it comes to everything else not only terrorism. we are suffering from poverty, illiterecy, corruption, injustice, there is no freedom, no democracy.....our bothers and sisters are killed every day in Iraq and Palestine, every kind of suffering you can imagine yet let me tell you that most of muslims used to be negative and this is one of the problems we face. you should also know that we suffer from terrorism just like you, maybe more, and before you even notice or care and just like many other crucial problems we face but we are almost silent. If you came and asked people at the street here in cairo for example, you would find them condemning terrorism but what can this do for solving the problem? This problem is not that simple; when i see a youth at my age embracing such extreme beliefs, i get astonished and i say to myself what makes an 18 year old youth think that if he blew himself up and killed a bunch of innocent ppl, he would go to heaven...maybe after a couple of days, i find my younger brother embracing the same belief after joining an extreme group, what do you think i should do in this case?! Those who r blowing themselves are from us, maybe my relative, my brother, my friend. How can we solve the problem? by Jail, okay but will the jail prevent many others to be "extremist" and "terrorist"??!
Islam is very clear for those who want the truth. if someone wants to kill, he will use every possible excuse to justify killing but his excuses will be very weak.

When i saw Fullyveiled muslimah's Q, only one answer came to my mind: muslims, nobody to blame except muslims; iam not talking about terrorists or extremists, iam talking about the rest of muslims, those muslims who thought Islam is just to perform a couple of prayers and read a couple of verses, just ask them what is the useful thing they do for their society, for others?, mostly you would find no answer, if they weren't harm their society in the first place! Islam is a religion of knowledge, work, thinking...the first word was revealed to the Prophet (PBUH) is to read, when you look at muslims now, most of them are ignorants...what's the good that muslims did for the world in the last years??!
Yes, there are specific groups that want to distort the image of Islam, this is not new, this is from 1400 years, but the most important is how the muslims act. Many repliers said the media has a big role in this hatred against muslims, my question is what did the muslims do to correct the misunderstanding and the ignorane about Islam?!
Muslims forgot that "al-deen al-mo'amalah" i.e. Islam is how to deal with others in the best manner. The Prophet (PBUH) had a jewish neighbor who hated the Prophet very much, every day this jewish guy threw his wastes in front of the Prophet's house door, one day the prophet (PBUH) didn't find the wastes of this guy in front of his house, he (PBUH) wondered what happened to this guy, then the Prophet visited him when he knew that he got sick, what did that jewish do when he saw the Prohet visiting him to support him while he was sick? he embraced Islam!
My point is that Islam is about the good manner; when others see the muslim's good character, they will have no reason to hate him. But the question is when will muslims return to their religion and know that "al deen al mo'amalah"?!

Perfectly stated. People think that a muslim terrorist is so because he practices Islam too hard. On the contrary it is because he knows nothing of deen. If muslims practiced Islam in its totality we could change the world not only for us but for all people. This is the solution to the problem of the misunderstanding of the non-muslim for the muslim way of life. It isn't necessary to walk the streets and try to battle the media for attention towards positives. We can't just say to people well, we're sorry there are terrorists in the world from muslims but see we are peaceful. This doesn't work. We can show people better than we can tell them that we are a balanced people, and that Islam teaches balance. The muslims who come to america from other countries usually come for money. They practice their deen privately and no one ever sees it, if they practice at all. The american born muslim doesn't do a whole lot better. When we become muslim there is an automatic separation that takes place with family and friends. Instead of bridging that gap, we are content to let it be.

I think it is both the fault of the media for bad publicity, but it couldn't take the root that it has if it weren't for the standoffish nature of our community. It is not done with any mal intent, we have just been content to let it be that way. No one asks us questions and we stay to ourselves for fear of misunderstood. It has come to bite us in the *** so to speak. Like Malcom said, the chickens have come home to roost.

The muslim brothers and sisters will understand me when I say that it is our fault. It meaning everything. Allah has given us the khalifa of the world to make it a better place for everyone, and look what we have done so far? We have left the deen of Allah and now we see fruits of our labor. Our hands are tied because of the weakness in ourselves. we have to point back to the time of the Prophet himself to show people the goodness of Islam. That speaks volumes about where we are as an ummat. We can't point to ourselves as an example because we aren't good. We are good individually but the non-muslims of the world don't buy that as well they shouldn't.

 

[standing_alone]

why are you expecting that our voice should be loud when it comes to terrorism if our voice is always low or absent when it comes to anything else other than terrorism.

Because it is your religion that is being used as a motivator to recruit terrorists, whether it is the "true" Islam or not.

when i see a youth at my age embracing such extreme beliefs, i get astonished and i say to myself what makes an 18 year old youth think that if he blew himself up and killed a bunch of innocent ppl, he would go to heaven

Your religion as interpreted and twisted by extremists coupled with playing into negative attitudes toward Israel and the West... that's what makes a youth think that.

Those who r blowing themselves are from us, maybe my relative, my brother, my friend. How can we solve the problem?

By stopping your relatives, your friends, whoever from joining those groups, by resisting those groups, by working proactively to stop them from recruiting more terrorists, by condemning those groups and not tolerating them in your communities, etc.

 

[YmirGF]

I disagree with you Paul. I tend to see that you are trying to put this whole idea of yours onto the majority of Muslims. I fail to see how you can judge Muslims are narrow minded when you can only see the flaw in Muslims in particular. Muslims are not narrow minded in general, look at the achievements, have you heard about the recent Nobel Prize receiver which is a Muslim named Muhammad Yunus who turned beggars into businessmen, who lended money to the poor without picking up any interest in return, who gave hope to children to continue their education. I am sad to see you see Muslims only on the bad side of the coin.

It is not much of a surprise that Muslims would disagree with me on this, lol. I can easily rip into Christians, Jews, Buddhists et all... in a heartbeat, so don't feel too centred out.

PS: Acheivements? Aside from isolated cases the Muslim world has not had many strides in recent centuries. Yes indeed, Muslims kept scientific thought alive during the dark ages in Europe and thank you all so much for doing so. The thing is, other than isolated cases what have they done lately?

Perhaps if more Muslims followed the fine example of Mr. Yunus I would quickly change my tune. Wow me a bit more... and I will just shut up.

 

[YmirGF]

The muslim brothers and sisters will understand me when I say that it is our fault. It meaning everything. Allah has given us the khalifa of the world to make it a better place for everyone, and look what we have done so far? We have left the deen of Allah and now we see fruits of our labor. Our hands are tied because of the weakness in ourselves. we have to point back to the time of the Prophet himself to show people the goodness of Islam. That speaks volumes about where we are as an ummat. We can't point to ourselves as an example because we aren't good. We are good individually but the non-muslims of the world don't buy that as well they shouldn't.

Thank you FullyVeiled. At least you recognize this simple fact. Then again your theology talks about the ummah being in disarray at the end of times, so in some respects there IS NO reason to try to make things better. Allah himself is coming and many will tell you the Judgment day is almost upon us and that these things are to be expected.

It is sort of difficult to build a better world when many of your brothers and sisters can hardly wait for this world to be over.

 

[Sahar]

Because it is your religion that is being used as a motivator to recruit terrorists, whether it is the "true" Islam or not.

Nooo..don't say b/c it's ur religion! Those ppl are ignoring and disobeying direct orders from Allah; not to kill innocents. if a muslim stole something, we can't say b/c he interpreted my religion in this way but b/c he IGNORED the teachings of my religion.

I was saying: don't expect much from muslims nowadays b/c many of them used to be silent and negative towards every problem facing them not only terrorism.
But ISA when they return to the teachings of Islam, this will change, no doubt and this is the only solution for our problems.
And Allah told us in the Holy Quraan: " Verily never will Allah change the condition of a people until they change it themselves (with their own souls)."
ًWhen every muslim begins to change himself first, the whole muslim ummah will change.

 

[YmirGF]

I was saying: don't expect much from muslims nowadays b/c many of them used to be silent and negative towards every problem facing them not only terrorism.
But ISA when they return to the teachings of Islam, this will change, no doubt and this is the only solution for our problems.
And Allah told us in the Holy Quraan: " Verily never will Allah change the condition of a people until they change it themselves (with their own souls)."
ًWhen every muslim begins to change himself first, the whole muslim ummah will change.

Believe it or not I agree. However, the reality is that your own belief system says that Islam will be in tatters at the end of days. If your belief systems are correct the Ummah will never "get it together". If anything, Muslims should be cheering in the streets because it means it is almost "showtime".

 

[standing_alone]

Nooo..don't say b/c it's ur religion!

Oh, but I did say it and I'll say it again: Because it is your religion being used as a motivator to recruit terrorists, you must actively speak out against terrorism committed in the name of Islam and Islamic terrorist organizations.

Those ppl are ignoring and disobeying direct orders from Allah; not to kill innocents. if a muslim stole something, we can't say b/c he interpreted my religion in this way but b/c he IGNORED the teachings of my religion.

That's a convenient excuse and all in order to ignore the fact that your religion is being used to justify acts of terrorism; however, I see that as acting almost as an apologist (not exactly the right word, but it's close enough to make my point). Correct this problem of misinterpretations and misuses of your faith. Don't tolerate these extremists in your communities and actively oppose and work against them. Actively correct the problem.

 

[Sahar]

Believe it or not I agree. However, the reality is that your own belief system says that Islam will be in tatters at the end of days. If your belief systems are correct the Ummah will never "get it together".

Who told you that???!! are we at the end of days?!!
Dear sir, this ummah will wake up again and very soon, there is a strong belief in this among us...in addition there r many hadeeths talking abt that!!!!! Lately muslims have begun to remember they r embracing a religion called Islam..more and more ppl are returning to Islam..many began to realize that this situation must be changed and many others are trying to make a move..many began to speak......many other good signs..

Just now there are more than 3 million muslims saying "labbayka Allahumma labbayk" on Arafah mountain, they want nothing except pleasing their God, they came from every place to say "we are here only for You, God!" how come muslims will not wake up again!!

 

[Judgement Day]

Believe it or not I agree. However, the reality is that your own belief system says that Islam will be in tatters at the end of days. If your belief systems are correct the Ummah will never "get it together". If anything, Muslims should be cheering in the streets because it means it is almost "showtime".

I'm sorry but that information is highly inaccurate. According to a hadith, and I believe it is a strong hadith, which unfortunately I don't remember which one it is, it clearly states that Islam will journey through 3 stages and then the end of time will come. The first stage is when Islam is on the peak of victory, the second stage is when Islam falls down, and the last stage is when Islam struggles and stands back up again, and then the end will come.

 

[Judgement Day]

It is not much of a surprise that Muslims would disagree with me on this, lol. I can easily rip into Christians, Jews, Buddhists et all... in a heartbeat, so don't feel too centred out.

PS: Acheivements? Aside from isolated cases the Muslim world has not had many strides in recent centuries. Yes indeed, Muslims kept scientific thought alive during the dark ages in Europe and thank you all so much for doing so. The thing is, other than isolated cases what have they done lately?

Perhaps if more Muslims followed the fine example of Mr. Yunus I would quickly change my tune. Wow me a bit more... and I will just shut up.

Perhaps I would agree with you if you were stating something that is less subjective and more objective.

What have the Americans and Europeans done during the dark age period. Just because they did not contribute does not make it right to hate them. Perhaps they did contribute but there were no publications, no recognition. Perhaps they were in poverty and didn't have enough to educate themselves, perhaps they had no technology and didn't have enough to excel. Does this make it right to hate them?

 

[painted wolf]

hey, we Americans had plenty of science going on in the "dark ages"
we figured out complex mathmatics including zero. We had wonderfully advanced astronomy (even if we didn't have the teloscope).
Advances in surgery, including brain surgery and medicine.

so on and so forth... don't count us "Americans" out of the science field.

wa:do

 

[michel]

Israel is a very differnet topic...Israel is an enemy to most Islamic country, and it chose to be like this...The palestinian government Hamas is not fundamentalist, it never said we need Israel to disappear...It just aim to unit the clean politics and the legal resistance into one government...
Hamas never refused negotiating the israelian government...

Hamas agrees to negotiate, but not dropping down the option of resistance, and this is fair enough for people who are being attacked every day and night for no reason..
This is not terrorism...

That is as full of holes a swiss cheese....................

Israel would love to 'Live and let live' - it is the neighbouring states who resent the presence of Israel.

If Hamas are not terrorists, what do you call people who accidentally set of a bomb destined for Israel within their own country - and then try to cover up the deaths of their own - for whom they are responsible, by claiming that the bomb that exploded was, in fact, a missile from Israel ?

You are talking about very few portion of muslims...This is not the general case..

And indeed, we say ''"O.K, we believe in different things - you respect our views, and lt us worship as we want to, and then we shall do the same for you"


You can also come to Egypt, or Syria or Lebanon or any other country, and you will see churches where ever you go...I have lots of christain friends here in Egypt, and never had any religious sensitivity between us...I wish them Merry christmas, and in turn they wishe me happy Eid...

Perhaps you are right, and yet..........

From http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2001/8/Human%20Rights%20in%20Arab%20and%20Muslim%20Countrieshttp://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2001/8/Human Rights in Arab and Muslim Countries
Human Rights in Arab and Muslim Countries

The modern concepts of "human rights" and "civil liberties" are of Western origin, not native to the Middle East. Their introduction into the Arab world has been patchy at best, as local traditions of governance saw themselves threatened by such foreign imports. Absolutism was not easily overthrown in the West itself, as the history of Europe can attest. Nonetheless, as the record will show, the Arab states have a long way to go to catch up with the modern world in this respect.

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/peter_tatchell/2006/04/iraq_slides_to_fundamentalism.html

The spiritual leader of Iraq's Shia Muslims, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, is widely viewed as a moderating influence, having condemned sectarian violence and encouraged his followers to participate in elections.
In response to the terrorist bombings of Shia neighbourhoods and shrines, which are calculated to incite civil war, Sistani has urged restraint and advised against retaliation. Compared to some other Shia leaders and to al-Qaida's bloodthirsty jihadists, Sistani come across as a moderate. In terms of Iraqi Shia opinion, he is not at the most extreme fundamentalist end of the political or religious spectrum...

Exerpts only...please read the above two links in full...........

 

[doppelganger]

Muslims are hated because uncreative people like to view the world through narrow-minded stereotypes rather than really listen and find the real human sbehind perceived differences.

Violence and disrespect for human rights, fundamentalism and terrorism are not in the least bit unique to Islamic nations, but are to be found anywhere there is is rampant poverty, significant disparities in the gap between the rich and the poor, little or no middle class and economic exploitation. That is true historically, and it's true today. The brutal regimes of the 20s-80s in places like Chile, Cuba, Phillipines, and Columbia, the death squads in Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Peru and other Latin American countries occured where Roman Catholicism predominates. "Christian" Europe suffered under centuries of ceaseless warfare and violence, brutal oppression of religious minorities, mistreatment of women and a lack of intellectual curiousity.

People in societies under stress look for the simple answers of fundamentalism to feel grounded in a world where they feel less and less that they have a real stake. And furthering the rich-poor gap such places or facilitating the economic exploitation of the of the majority of people in such places just makes matters worse.

 

[michel]

Muslims are hated because uncreative people like to view the world through narrow-minded stereotypes rather than really listen and find the real human sbehind perceived differences.

Violence and disrespect for human rights, fundamentalism and terrorism are not in the least bit unique to Islamic nations, but are to be found anywhere there is is rampant poverty, significant disparities in the gap between the rich and the poor, little or no middle class and economic exploitation. That is true historically, and it's true today. The brutal regimes of the 20s-80s in places like Chile, Cuba, Phillipines, and Columbia, the death squads in Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Peru and other Latin American countries occured where Roman Catholicism predominates. "Christian" Europe suffered under centuries of ceaseless warfare and violence, brutal oppression of religious minorities, mistreatment of women and a lack of intellectual curiousity.

People in societies under stress look for the simple answers of fundamentalism to feel grounded in a world where they feel less and less that they have a real stake. And furthering the rich-poor gap such places or facilitating the economic exploitation of the of the majority of people in such places just makes matters worse.

For the nth time," Musims are hated" is a "straw man" falacy.

 

[doppelganger]

For the nth time," Musims are hated" is a "straw man" falacy.

Some people hate and fear Muslims. That's a fact not a fallacy.

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

Thank you FullyVeiled. At least you recognize this simple fact. Then again your theology talks about the ummah being in disarray at the end of times, so in some respects there IS NO reason to try to make things better. Allah himself is coming and many will tell you the Judgment day is almost upon us and that these things are to be expected.

It is sort of difficult to build a better world when many of your brothers and sisters can hardly wait for this world to be over.

Yes it speaks about muslims being in large number yet Islam will be in serious decline. Muslims will be in disarray, and it will be so because of our neglect of Islamic practices as a whole. You know, individuals will try to practice it but it will not be enough. For this neglect the muslims will be surrounded by the non-muslim military forces and subdued by them. This we can see is happening. Iraq and Afghanistan were both conquered rather quickly. This is the trial of us, in the beginning of ISlam it will be strong and dominant because muslims will be practicing Islam completely. In the middle of the ages of us Islam will go into serious decline. This is because of muslims neglect of the command of Allah. When the muslims became corrupted by the prospect of gaining wealth and politicla power, they were quickly overtaken by the mongols, and others. The Ottoman empire was the last great Islamic empire and it was beset with problems. After that, muslims became a non-entity. People lost respect for us, and that respect was replaced with fear and dread. Fear of us because we are unknown and strange to other people, and dread because of the same reason. For so many centuries muslims existed as a mere shell of their former selves. The only good that prevailed out of Ilsam is in hte history books. So many centuries muslims have yearned for that greatness, but failed to understand why it was there in the first place. Only just now we realize why that in the past Islam meant something good to people, and muslims were trustworthy in the eyes of others. A long time ago, the words Islam and muslim used to be equated with good and justice. Now these words either mean nothing or they are negative to say the least.


I am sorry for any melodrama in this reply. I get emotional about this because the problem isn't with America and bad media (not completely anyways). The root problem and therefore the solution is so much more deeper than that. It is going to take the entire muslim body to wake up and bring about the much needed change.

 

[YmirGF]

Only just now we realize why that in the past Islam meant something good to people, and muslims were trustworthy in the eyes of others. A long time ago, the words Islam and muslim used to be equated with good and justice. Now these words either mean nothing or they are negative to say the least.

Fullveiled Muslimah, Thank you from the bottom of my heart and the centre of my mind. I wish so very much that I looked in wonder at Muslims and thought, "Wow. These people are SO cool." It does sadden me that I can't do that in general. However, I am beginning to feel that though we differ on many things, that's OK... I am beginning to think you are one pretty cool lady! So, there IS hope. My guess, for what it is worth, is that Islam and the Ummah MUST return to a Caliphate system where one person speaks for the whole, similar to the office of the Pope.

I am sorry for any melodrama in this reply. I get emotional about this because the problem isn't with America and bad media (not completely anyways). The root problem and therefore the solution is so much more deeper than that. It is going to take the entire muslim body to wake up and bring about the much needed change.

Again thank you dear lady. May Allah bless you even more than He already apparently has.

Again, like with others here on RF, I won't always agree with you, but that doesn't mean we must hate other, all it means is that we have to understand each other. Frankly you have earned my deepest respect FullyVeiled and I can only restate that I do not hate Islam or Muslims. Never did, never will, but I do have grave concerns about some people who consider themselves devout pious Muslims who could well get us all killed.

To me, an outsider, it is as if the Ummah is a sleeping giant that doesn't even know it is having a collective nightmare. The Ummah really needs to wake up and eradicate its more violent members lest that dis-ease spread like a cancer and kill us all. An frankly, I don't think you are being melodramatic in the slightest. Bravo on a fantastic post. Why is it Muslim women seem to be better at showing the true Islam than men? Even on Islam.com the wisest person I met there was a lady named Emmy and she was always the voice of reason within the raging general hysteria. Oh well, maybe I am rambling now, lol. Take care and keep posting your wonderful thoughts. :bow:

Your friend in the Light,
Paul

 

[Booko]

I think it is both the fault of the media for bad publicity, but it couldn't take the root that it has if
it weren't for the standoffish nature of our community.

You make an excellent point about the standoffish nature of the community. As a historical note, I'd mention that much anti-Semitism also has its roots in the separate nature of the Jewish community in the West. I don't criticize the choice to separate, but just mention that there are some consequences that flow from a community's choice isolate itself to some degree.

we have to point back to the time of the Prophet himself to show people the goodness of Islam. That speaks volumes about where we are as an ummat. We can't point to ourselves as an example because we aren't good. We are good individually but the non-muslims of the world don't buy that as well they shouldn't.

Well, the non-muslims of the world who have a wide view of history will recognize that today's situation is temporary, and like your religious predecessors, your community will improve.

 

[Booko]

Who told you that???!! are we at the end of days?!!

There is a relevant hadith that says (if memory serves) that at the end nothing would be left of Islam but its name.

That doesn't prove it applies to today, of course, but it's relevant to the subject.

Unfortunately, I am away from home, so I cannot give you the exact text of the hadith (and can't vouch for authenticity anyway), but if you want me to quote it for you, please ask me in another week -- I can find the book easily enough.

 

[Booko]

hey, we Americans had plenty of science going on in the "dark ages"
we figured out complex mathmatics including zero. We had wonderfully advanced astronomy (even if we didn't have the teloscope).
Advances in surgery, including brain surgery and medicine.

so on and so forth... don't count us "Americans" out of the science field.

wa:do

And the most accurate calendar, and don't forget the advances in agronomy.