The immigrant round up has begun.

[psychoslice]

According to the law, they shouldn't be here, but in reality it benefits America to have them here.

I don't think so, and even if they did, they are still breaking the law, and you have no idea of the trash that may also come in, its not worth the gamble.

 

[Lyndon]

The trash are already sitting in America (and Australia), trying to get rid of the immigrants!!

 

[Valjean]

what benefit do we derive from them being here? try and be specific and not just generalize.

Farming, picking, meat packing and other vital industries depend on them. This is well established. No-one familiar with the issue disputes it. This may not be may not be a desirable situation, but it's a fact.

Gee man, you just justify slavery.

She may be reporting it, but I don't see how you conclude she's justifying it. Indeed, she seems critical of it.

Do both punish employers and stop illegal immigration. Illegal's are not beneficial to the country no matter what you may think.

Punish a few employers and you wouldn't have to worry about immigration. With no jobs there would be no immigration.
This has been tried, It was disasterous, and quickly aborted.

 

[Valjean]

I don't think so, and even if they did, they are still breaking the law, and you have no idea of the trash that may also come in, its not worth the gamble.

So:
You seem have an undeveloped, black-and-white, law-and-order sense of morality; and a fear of novelty, the unfamiliar, and the unpredictable.


Lawrence Kohlberg's stages of moral development - Wikipedia
Level two:

The conventional level of moral reasoning is typical of adolescents and adults. To reason in a conventional way is to judge the morality of actions by comparing them to society's views and expectations. The conventional level consists of the third and fourth stages of moral development. Conventional morality is characterized by an acceptance of society's conventions concerning right and wrong. At this level an individual obeys rules and follows society's norms even when there are no consequences for obedience or disobedience. Adherence to rules and conventions is somewhat rigid, however, and a rule's appropriateness or fairness is seldom questioned.

Unconscious Reactions Separate Liberals and Conservatives

Psychologists have found that conservatives are fundamentally more anxious than liberals, which may be why they typically desire stability, structure and clear answers even to complicated questions.

 

[psychoslice]

So:
You seem have an undeveloped, black-and-white, law-and-order sense of morality; and a fear of novelty, the unfamiliar, and the unpredictable.


Lawrence Kohlberg's stages of moral development - Wikipedia
Level two:



Unconscious Reactions Separate Liberals and Conservatives

Look, the law is the law, no matter what you try to say, if their in the country illegally, then get rid of them, SIMPLE.

 

[Valjean]

I don't know.

I have my criticisms of the Obama administration, as well, but you seem to have a personal animosity toward him. Are there particular policies or administrative actions you disagree with? If so, do you attribute them to personality or moral defects, or something else.

The Obama administration was hamstrung from the beginning. The Republicans vowed to block everything he attempted to do, even if they agreed with it or had originally proposed it, in an effort to produce a failed, -- and one term -- presidency.
If Obama was ineffective it was largely because of deliberate hampering.

 

[Valjean]

Look, the law is the law, no matter what you try to say, if their in the country illegally, then get rid of them, SIMPLE.

You confirm my diagnosis.

Law is not holy writ. It's fallible, and not applicable in all situations. There are always situations where applying the letter of the law would be immoral or counter-productive.

 

[psychoslice]

I have my criticisms of the Obama administration, as well, but you seem to have a personal animosity toward him. Are there particular policies or administrative actions you disagree with? If so, do you attribute them to personality or moral defects, or something else.

The Obama administration was hamstrung from the beginning. The Republicans vowed to block everything he attempted to do, even if they agreed with it or had originally proposed it, in an effort to produce a failed, -- and one term -- presidency.
If Obama was ineffective it was largely because of deliberate hampering.

I suppose it more of a gut feeling, he seem to let every man and his dog into the country, especially Muslims, which lets face it cannot be truly trusted.

 

[psychoslice]

You confirm my diagnosis.

Law is not holy writ. It's fallible, and not applicable in all situations. There are always situations where applying the letter of the law would be immoral or counter-productive.

But who are you to go against the law, just too suit yourself ?.

 

[Valjean]

I suppose it more of a gut feeling, he seem to let every man and his dog into the country, especially Muslims, which lets face it cannot be truly trusted.

But he's deported more "illegals" than any other president in history. They call him the "deporter-in-chief" for heaven's sake. More "illegals" left the country during his administration than entered.

I question your distrust of Muslims, as well as your apparent belief that they're being admitted indiscriminately. Statistically they're not really a threat. More people are shot dead by toddlers than Muslim immigrants.

They are a useful scapegoat politically, though; a distraction to divert attention from real threats and anti-social policies.

 

[psychoslice]

But he's deported more "illegals" than any other president in history. They call him the "deporter-in-chief" for heaven's sake. More "illegals" left the country during his administration than entered.

I question your distrust of Muslims, as well as your apparent belief that they're being admitted indiscriminately. Statistically they're not really a threat. More people are shot dead by toddlers than Muslim immigrants.

They are a useful scapegoat politically, though; a distraction to divert attention from real threats and anti-social policies.

I have seen many clips of the way Muslims are acting in Western countries, even here in Australia, its disgusting, they are welcome in and then they try to take over the country, telling everyone who they should be, they should keep their sticking noses to themselves.

 

[Valjean]

But who are you to go against the law, just too suit yourself ?.

I'm a moral agent.

What would you have done in 1930s Germany, if you had a Jewish neighbor? Legally you were required to turn him in. Morally, turning him in would be tantamount to killing him, and a violation of Christ's teachings -- but the law says turn him in.

Don't be a moral reprobate. Don't let other people think for you, and don't let law or convention substitute for morality. You need to judge situations against personal, internalized, universal moral principles.

.

 

[Lyndon]

what's disgusting is your expressed attitude, pscho. Funny because the exact same government that will be cutting back on rights for immigrants is the government that will cutting back on rights for the mentally ill, its kind of like shooting yourself in the foot!!

 

[psychoslice]

I'm a moral agent.

What would you have done in 1930s Germany, if you had a Jewish neighbor? Legally you were required to turn him in. Morally, turning him in would be tantamount to killing him, and a violation of Christ's teachings -- but the law says turn him in.

Don't be a moral reprobate. Don't let other people think for you, and don't let law or convention substitute for morality. You need to judge situations against personal, internalized, universal moral principles.

.

Ha that's one thing I don't do is let someone else think for me, and you are trying to twist everything to your way by using emotional manipulation, its like throwing children into the argument to only try to make it all sound like you are right and the evil one wrong, it wont bloody work with me.

 

[Valjean]

I have seen many clips of the way Muslims are acting in Western countries, even here in Australia, its disgusting, they are welcome in and then they try to take over the country, telling everyone who they should be, they should keep their sticking noses to themselves.

Don't be wedded to propriety and conventional behavior. They're acting that way because they're wedded to the conventionalism and propriety they were raised with.

When people feel insecure or find themselves in unfamiliar circumstances they fall back on the values they were raised with; they become more conservative, inflexible and infantalized.

If Muslims seem to be imposing themselves on you you're free to resist, or ignore them, but getting into a pi**ing match just drives both sides to extremes.
"Welcome the stranger among you" and you'll find he's much more open to new ideas.

 

[psychoslice]

Don't be wedded to propriety and conventional behavior. They're acting that way because they're wedded to the conventionalism and propriety they were raised with.

When people feel insecure or find themselves in unfamiliar circumstances they fall back on the values they were raised with; they become more conservative, inflexible and infantalized.

If Muslims seem to be imposing themselves on you you're free to resist, or ignore them, but getting into a pi**ing match just drives both sides to extremes.
"Welcome the stranger among you" and you'll find he's much more open to new ideas.

They should learn about the culture they are entering, as it is said, when in Roam do as the Romans do, respect the land you are invited to, don't try to change it for your own miserable selves.

 

[Shad]

Farming, picking, meat packing and other vital industries depend on them.

None of these industries depend on them. They are just like any other low wage worker, replaceable.

This is well established.

No it isn't. It is characterization that confuses unskilled labours with being the same as immigrants. There are millions of legal unskilled labours in America to replace them.

The only point you have is if all these illegals were deported the industry would have issues until it's work force was filled. Nothing more.

 

[Shad]

They should learn about the culture they are entering, as it is said, when in Roam do as the Romans do, respect the land you are invited to, don't try to change it for your own miserable selves.

Horrible principle. If you were in Nazi Germany would you become a bigot against Jews? If you were in KSA would you become a bigot against atheists? Would you think atheists and apostates are terrorist? Would you act like a communist going against religion due to being in China?

You follow the laws of the nation not the culture of it.

 

[psychoslice]

Horrible principle. If you were in Nazi Germany would you become a bigot against Jews? If you were in KSA would you become a bigot against atheists? Would you think atheists and apostates are terrorist? Would you act like a communist going against religion due to being in China?

You follow the laws of the nation not the culture of it.

Your being silly, read again what I said.

 

[Valjean]

They should learn about the culture they are entering, as it is said, when in Roam do as the Romans do, respect the land you are invited to, don't try to change it for your own miserable selves.

Refugees don't always have a choice -- any port in a storm, and all.
And cultural flexibility is often difficult, especially for those with a conservative neurology like yourself.

Be patient. Be kind. They're frightened and find their new cultural surroundings threatening.