The immigrant round up has begun.

[McBell]

Laws are made to serve human needs, not impede them. When a law becomes an impediment to legitimate needs it should be ignored.

And that is fine if you choose to ignore the law.
Just don't start whining when the law catches up to you.

 

[Valjean]

And that is fine if you choose to ignore the law.
Just don't start whining when the law catches up to you.

I whine at any injustice, legal or not.
Would you have turned in the Frank family? They were illegals, you know.

 

[McBell]

I whine at any injustice, legal or not.
Would you have turned in the Frank family? They were illegals, you know.

No idea.
Do not know enough about it to give an honest answer.

 

[Valjean]

Jeremiahcp
I am sorry but if detecting illegals was as simple as, "Papers please", we would not currently have a problem with illegals.

I wasn't aware we had a "problem." It's my impression the presence of these undocumented people is a net social and economic benefit. They're being scape-goated for political purposes.

The Ragin Pagan, post: 5075673, member: 61391"
Let me give you an example here. Say that there's a hitchhiker walking along the side of the highway. A cop stops him and asks for identification.

• If he has a driver's license, the number can be run by the stations dispatch. From this, practically everything about him comes up on the database; his name, description, address, any open warrants, restrictions (including student/worker visas and their status), etc.

My Driver's license expired three days ago. I went to the Motor Vehicle Administration office to renew it -- as I had many times before. This time, however, instead of just taking my old license, comparing me with the photo, and issuing a new license, they demanded multiple forms of ID plus two proofs of address -- in addition to my old license. I had to drive back home and scrounge through old papers for an hour (I never did find my Social Security card). I finally satisfied the clerk with a massive pile of unopened mail, old tax documents, employee ID, &c.

 

[Valjean]

I wonder what's going to happen the the Pennsylvania Dutch or the Old Order Amish.
They don't routinely carry, or even have, the usual ID papers. Are they going to be deported to Germany or Switzerland?

 

[Valjean]

If we did manage to deport all the 'illegals,' US agriculture, meat packing, &c would suffer catastrophic setbacks.
Many low wage and dangerous industries rely on undocumented workers. Mexican newspapers run Help Wanted adds from American farms and factories, promising jobs -- no questions asked. They're encouraging illegal immigration; they rely on it.

If the government would arrest a few illegal employers, word would spread like wildfire. Jobs would dry up and the diseased, illegal rapists, gang members and drug dealers would have to go elsewhere (yes, this is sarcasm).
But no-one's going to do that. The GOP would then have to find some other group to scapegoat, for their political agenda.

 

[Valjean]

No idea.
Do not know enough about it to give an honest answer.

An honest answer to what?
...and do you even get the reference?

 

[McBell]

An honest answer to what?
...and do you even get the reference?

Tell me, how many who were rounded up last week got the gas chamber?

Seems your "reference" is severely lacking in comparison.
Care to try again?

(I looked her up)

 

[Valjean]

Tell me, how many who were rounded up last week got the gas chamber?

Seems your "reference" is severely lacking in comparison.
Care to try again?

(I looked her up)

Quite a few have been sent back to Honduras or El Salvador to their deaths (the threat of which being what drove them to emigrate in the first place). There are also economic refugees. What are you expected to do when you're a farmer and NAFTA floods your country with corn at half the price it takes for you to grow it? How are you to feed your family? Then you see page after page of Help Wanted ads from American corporations advertising jobs in the US, no questions asked?
Many of the conditions in Latin America that are driving emigration were created by US policies. We're reaping what we've sown.
What would you do?

 

[McBell]

What would you do?

Personally, I would start at the top and work my way down.
How many Senators and House of Representatives have illegal immigrants working for them?
Start there.
Then move to the rest of the Federal Government.
Then start on State Governments.
Then local governments
Then on companies who employ illegal immigrants.
Then on "contracted" illegal immigrants.
Then on the illegal immigrants themselves.

Of course, there needs to be a system in place where the productive illegal immigrants can become legal.
Yes, I understand the word "productive" is subjective.
that is why the system needs to be worked out.

Put that $20 billion plus to work on that instead of a wall that serves no better function than airport security.

 

[Sunstone]

As long as they're not white, male, straight, and American, they're probably peaceful and wise altruists whose farts are rainbow-colored expressions of joy and healing. I can't imagine any of them have probably done anything worse than accidentally step on a bug they didn't see.

Statistically, they have lower crime rates than the rest of us, with the one exception, of course, of illegal border crossing.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

I was responding to the silly notion of how the cops are going to identify people.

Do you know this is how the method is going to be, or assume? I am not naïve enough to assume that there won't be a degree of profiling, but I'm not about to leap the shark and assume it will be the method of choice.

Cops should not be holding lawful citizen who have done nothing wrong simply because they don't have an id on them.

If they cannot be verified, then how sure can law enforcement be that they're lawful citizens?

So much for the importance of family values.

Oh, don't be so melodramatic. Children are placed into foster care for reasons far less than being an illegal immigrant; at least in foster care, they would be guaranteed immunizations - which is a significant concern to be kept in mind regarding illegal immigrants.

Not to mention that in my opinion - which I stated - such would be a temporary measure until their parents are nationalized.

Unauthorized Immigrants: How Pew Research Counts Them and What We Know About Them

And with such, there's a rational starting point. Not to mention the article outlines nationalization for those with families and those who have been here prior to 2011.

Laws are made to serve human needs, not impede them. When a law becomes an impediment to legitimate needs it should be ignored.

So you would be in favor of open borders, then? That presents significant risks, of which include - but are not limited to - disease, crime (yes, that is a factor), higher crimes (terrorism), and possibly economic strain and collapse.

Then there are arrests for no compelling reason: Mexican woman deported from the US despite protests - BBC News

Oh, hey, first sentence "A Mexican woman who lived illegally in the US..." She used forged documents to get a job. In other words, she lied about federal issued forms of identification - a felony. She pleaded guilty to this, and was summarily (well, it took three years) punished for that. Fun fact: if you - as a citizen - forge documents in the same fashion, you're just as guilty of felony. Even if it's a heart-tugging story. Only difference is as a citizen you'll be incarcerated, not deported.

My Driver's license expired three days ago. I went to the Motor Vehicle Administration office to renew it -- as I had many times before. This time, however, instead of just taking my old license, comparing me with the photo, and issuing a new license, they demanded multiple forms of ID plus two proofs of address -- in addition to my old license. I had to drive back home and scrounge through old papers for an hour (I never did find my Social Security card). I finally satisfied the clerk with a massive pile of unopened mail, old tax documents, employee ID, &c.

Yes, I've experienced much the same. Why do you think that is, that it takes so much ID now?

 

[fantome profane]

No idea.
Do not know enough about it to give an honest answer.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

 

[columbus]

Personally, I would start at the top and work my way down.
How many Senators and House of Representatives have illegal immigrants working for them?
Start there.
Then move to the rest of the Federal Government.
Then start on State Governments.
Then local governments
Then on companies who employ illegal immigrants.
Then on "contracted" illegal immigrants.
Then on the illegal immigrants themselves.

I could be wrong, but I doubt that many government jobs are filled by illegal immigrants. I would count the Post Office as a company.
The main players here are the companies that hire or contract the largest numbers of entry level or low skilled employees. Temp agencies, warehouses, light manufacturers, restaurants and such. If the top management and investors feel some heat for breaking the law, the issue will start getting resolved pronto. There won't be enough unregulated and unvetted workers left to be a big deal.
Tom

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Do you know this is how the method is going to be, or assume? I am not naïve enough to assume that there won't be a degree of profiling, but I'm not about to leap the shark and assume it will be the method of choice.


If they cannot be verified, then how sure can law enforcement be that they're lawful citizens?


Oh, don't be so melodramatic. Children are placed into foster care for reasons far less than being an illegal immigrant; at least in foster care, they would be guaranteed immunizations - which is a significant concern to be kept in mind regarding illegal immigrants.

Not to mention that in my opinion - which I stated - such would be a temporary measure until their parents are nationalized.


And with such, there's a rational starting point. Not to mention the article outlines nationalization for those with families and those who have been here prior to 2011.


So you would be in favor of open borders, then? That presents significant risks, of which include - but are not limited to - disease, crime (yes, that is a factor), higher crimes (terrorism), and possibly economic strain and collapse.


Oh, hey, first sentence "A Mexican woman who lived illegally in the US..." She used forged documents to get a job. In other words, she lied about federal issued forms of identification - a felony. She pleaded guilty to this, and was summarily (well, it took three years) punished for that. Fun fact: if you - as a citizen - forge documents in the same fashion, you're just as guilty of felony. Even if it's a heart-tugging story. Only difference is as a citizen you'll be incarcerated, not deported.


Yes, I've experienced much the same. Why do you think that is, that it takes so much ID now?

"If they cannot be verified, then how sure can law enforcement be that they're lawful citizens?"

Ask me if I care. Go on, ask. The idea that cops should be able to arrest innocence US citizen for not having ID on them is just stupid.

"Oh, don't be so melodramatic. "

I call it having a heart; you may want to try it, seeing how you don't seem to have a problem with separating children from their loving parents and putting them in foster care.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Statistically, they have lower crime rates than the rest of us, with the one exception, of course, of illegal border crossing.

Well, you know it is easier to remain indifferent to the situation if you have an excuse to look down on them.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

The idea that cops should be able to arrest innocence US citizen for not having ID on them is just stupid.

Detaining is not the same as arresting. The former is as simple as "wait here by the vehicle while we look you up." Arrest would come if they have no identification found anywhere. I thought you were familiar with the process?

I call it having a heart; you may want to try it, seeing how you don't seem to have a problem with separating children from their loving parents and putting them in foster care.

Bleeding hearts lead to fallen cities.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Detaining is not the same as arresting. The former is as simple as "wait here by the vehicle while we look you up." Arrest would come if they have no identification found anywhere. I thought you were familiar with the process?


Bleeding hearts lead to fallen cities.

"'Detaining is not the same as arresting. The former is as simple as "wait here by the vehicle while we look you up." Arrest would come if they have no identification found anywhere."

Ya, that is great; good thing you are not the one making the calls. At this point it is just beating a dead horse.

"Bleeding hearts lead to fallen cities."

That is nothing but an empty platitude.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Call it what you will; such is my opinion.

 

[metis]

I don't want my source of Mexican food threatened.