The Last Supper mocked in Paris?

[Debater Slayer]

No...they wanted to do something fuchsia...something celebrating the homosexualization of society...

There we go. The homophobic rhetoric I pointed out on the very first page of this thread:

Carnivalesque shows ridicule the Olympic Games.
In another context that would have been very original. I mean...re-interpreting a work of art by Da Vinci.
But in this context it means to make France more and more fuchsia and less prestigious since Macron Le Bon Bon is in charge.

(Coloring mine.)

Homophobic vitriol only reflects on the people propagating it rather than anyone else. It also adds nothing of value to any serious discussion.

I thought Macron was straight...
why homophobia?

Because the denigration you posted had these subtexts:



What did you mean by "make France more and more fuchsia" and "Macron Le Bon Bon"? How is that relevant to the OP?

The injection of personal bugbears and hate-filled hyperbole into the subject isn't hard to notice.

 

[PureX]

Art of any kind has always been defined (since people started writing about it) as having Apollonian and Dionysian faces, the cerebral and the pure feeling. The whole point of the Dionysian side is to let go, to let it all hang out. It’s supposed to be crazy and chaotic. It’s only within the bounds of certain religious traditions that it’s considered ‘bad’, a fairly recent thing in human history, that has much more to do with labour management and control in particular conceptions of ‘civilised’, post agricultural societies. All the supposedly spiritual stuff is just appended to try and make it fulfil the same basic need to stop thinking sometimes and go a bit wild. Same reason the Romans had their Bacchanalia, just with the idea of letting go being associated with a kind of spiritual abandon. Within the religious traditions most common in the West there are different ways of expressing that within the bounds of what is considered to be ‘spiritual’ or ‘holy’ that would seem a bit nuts to the uninitiated.

The problem is that 99.9% of the people seeing that image will have no idea what you just said. And will have no way of considering the image in that light. Many, however, will recognize the similarity to the famour religious painting of the last supper, and they will see that the characters have been changed in ways antithetical to the original. And this will be perceived as an intentional 'bastardization' of the original.

The intended audience for this image was never going to understand the image being presented to them. ... So, it's a failure that is having the exact opposite effect on people than was intended.

It won't be the first failure that happened at the Olympics because some committee of fools was trying to use the event for political or social propaganda purposes, and i am sure it won't be the last.

 

[Yerda]

IMHO, bad taste. Curious what RFers think about this?

Why would Christians have any bad feeling about a representation of the last supper?

 

[Tomef]

The problem is that 99.9% of the people seeing that image will have no idea what you just said. And will have no way of considering the image in that light. Many, however, will recognize the similarity to the famour religious painting of the last supper, and they will see that the characters have been changed in ways antithetical to the original. And this will be perceived as an intentional 'bastardization' of the original.

The intended audience for this image was never going to understand the image being presented to them. ... So, it's a failure that is having the exact opposite effect on people than was intended.

It won't be the first failure that happened at the Olympics because some committee of fools was trying to use the event for political or social propaganda purposes, and i am sure it won't be the last.

Are that many people complaining about it? Seems like a smaller proportion of the public than 99.9%. I don’t think you need to know the terminology to appreciate the difference between going a bit wild and appreciating some clever art, which is what this about I think. Why not have both? As a tradition that’s older than Christianity.

 

[Kathryn]

Apparently the intent wasn't even to reenact Da Vinci's "The Last Supper", but instead "The Feast of the Gods" by Bijlert.

I believe them. The Bacchus is very conspicuous, after all.

Jan Hermansz. van Bijlert | Le Festin des Dieux (The Feast of the Gods ) | Artsy

From Musée Magnin, Jan Hermansz. van Bijlert, Le Festin des Dieux (The Feast of the Gods )

www.artsy.net

It's Not The Last Supper: No Reason To Be Outraged Over Drag Performance in Olympics

Get your paintings right.

www.spot.ph

Feast Of The Gods: Outrage And Parody

The opening ceremony of the Paris Olympics might have been a parody of the Last Supper. It might equally have not been -- it is decidedly a modern interpretation of a Greek Olympian tradition and celebration of its Dionysian nature, replete with mythic figures and gods.

www.patheos.com

Which was directly inspired by The Last Supper.

 

[PureX]

I often find that people who consider themselves superior are usually exactly the opposite.

I find that stupid people are very keen to presume that anyone smarter than them is actually not smart at all, so they won't have to acknowledge their own ignorance and do something about it.

Example: George W. Bush was nearly always the stupidest man in any room. Especially in a room full of reporters. And yet he was fully convinced that he was, in fact, the smartest. And he would talk to everyone else, especially the reporters in the room with an air of incredulousness at how they weren't able to understand the world as he could. Meanwhile the man couldn't assemble a comprehensible sentence while standing in front of a room full of professional writers.

But that reality never seemed to catch his notice.

 

[Estro Felino]

Why would Christians have any bad feeling about a representation of the last supper?

I find it amusing, honestly.
I will have something to laugh about for the next 6 months. Even if some people are saddened by how low France has stooped.
I am not.

 

[PureX]

Are that many people complaining about it? Seems like a smaller proportion of the public than 99.9%. I don’t think you need to know the terminology to appreciate the difference between going a bit wild and appreciating some clever art, which is what this about I think. Why not have both? As a tradition that’s older than Christianity.

Most people have no idea what to make of ANY art. Let alone "clever art". And that isn't clever art. It's social propaganda. Perhaps somewhat clever, but propaganda nevertheless. Also of the 99.9% that only saw it as a bastardization of the famous last supper painting, most of them really just didn't care. As I don't care.

My only point is that it failed miserably at it's intent. Which a great many human endeavors do. But this one would have been quite easy to anticipate. Just sayin'.

 

[ChristineM]

I find that stupid people are very keen to presume that anyone smarter than them is actually not smart tat all, so they won't have to acknowledge their own ignorance and do something about it.

Example: George W. Bush was nearly always the stupidest man in any room. Especially in a room full of reporters. And yet he was fully convinced that he was, in fact, the smartest. And he would talk to everyone else, especially the reporters in the room with an air of incredulousness at how they weren't able to understand the would as he could. Meanwhile the man couldn't assemple a comprehensible sentence while standing in front of a room full of writers.

But that reality never seemed to catch his notice.

Precisely my point. Thanks?

And that would be world and assemble

 

[Kathryn]

Precisely my point. Thanks?

And that would be world and assemble

And "at," not "tat."

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Deliberate disrespect?

Maybe. I don't know French culture well enough to comment. Do the French still love burlesque?

Several people in your first link deny that it was even about the Last Supper. I tried to find some video of the show but was unsuccessful. So, I'll assume that people had reason for thinking it was.

If it was deliberate disrespect, is it really that surprising that LGBTQ+ doesn't respect Christianity? Is it that surprising that they would take an opportunity on the world stage if given one to lampoon Christianity? It's a lot more fun and playful than what they have endured at the hands of that religion. One needs to give respect in order to expect it in return.

I guess that the Christian community hasn't yet begun to understand that it cannot denigrate these people with impunity anymore, that everybody has a voice and a platform now, and if you fling feces, prepare to duck. This is new, and there is a learning curve.

"The problem with being privileged your whole life is that because you have had that privilege for so long, equality starts to look like oppression." - Mark Caddo

Ridiculing people based on their beliefs is I think roughly equivalent to basically calling someone subhuman and inferior

Exactly. And I'll bet that these people just got tired of being treated as subhuman.

Treat others as you want to be treated.

Agreed.

 

[Altfish]

I didn't say that criticising religions is wrong

I said that mocking people who believe in it is wrong

OK, I don't think that mocking believers in toxic behaviour.
I try not to mock them but if necessary (eg if I'm being preached at) I may mock them.

 

[anna.]

France is actually a deeply conservative country, albeit paradoxically one with a tradition of irreverance and protest.

Conservatives don't like France, regardless.

 

[anna.]

Are you calling me a Conservative????

I object to that

I am a Centrist

I dislike both the left and the right

I'm talking about the general outrage here. It's coming from conservatives. No surprise, but there we are.

 

[Regiomontanus]

Conservatives just don't like France. Too dang libertine. "Freedom fries," anyone?

Hah, Freedom Fries. I love Robert Plant's take on that controversy.

 

[Regiomontanus]

Conservatives just don't like France. Too dang libertine. "Freedom fries," anyone?

Hah, Freedom Fries. I love Robert Plant's take on that controversy.

I think the Olympics suck now.

It's about just everything else but the athletes themselves, and the competitions to be the best in the world.

I trust for the next Olympics, they will choose a more appropriate country to host the event.

Before this controversy, I was not even aware the Olympics were going on now. Growing up the games were a huge deal! Now it is a big yawn.

 

[Regiomontanus]

I suppose as Europeans we see Christianity as ‘our’ religion, as in part of our heritage, moreso than any other. Although a lot of faiths are practised across Europe, Christianity ruled the roost for longer and more extensively than others.

I appreciate your voice on this issue. But, in regard to the bit above, you are wrong.

As just one example of what I mean, where was mass conducted in Latin for the first time?

North Africa.

Where was the term 'Christian' first coined?

Syria.


Peace

 

[Regiomontanus]

Why would Christians have any bad feeling about a representation of the last supper?

With drag queens? Hmm, I wonder...

 

[Shadow Wolf]

People need to chill out and get over themselves, particularly and especially Conservative Christians and these idolaters who get offended over this but don't give a single damn when their crap harms another. Like how they expect us to tolerate them teaching homosexuality is a sin and abomination before their god just because its what thsir so-called holy book says, and they also expect us to honor their sacred cow ****.

 

[Regiomontanus]

If it was deliberate disrespect, is it really that surprising that LGBTQ+ doesn't respect Christianity?

Good question. No, a natural target for sure. But France is presenting itself to the world as the face of the Olympics. So, why do this?

And is the government there a simple mouthpiece for such causes?

The whole thing just seems like a big unforced error, IMHO.