The Law Is Often Not About Preventing Crime, But Rather Just Punishing People

[McBell]

Have any research showing that
the death penalty reduces crime?

I never said the death penalty reduces crime.
In fact, I presented that it does not even deter crime because they can simply cross state lines.

 

[Revoltingest]

I never said the death penalty reduces crime.
In fact, I presented that it does not even deter crime because they can simply cross state lines.

OK.

 

[Audie]

This isn't something that is to be solved.
It is what it is.
Thus...
**** government.

Love is just four asterix word

 

[Laniakea]

Clever.
Regarding the death penalty, efficacy
is discouragement of others from
committing the same crime.
Evidence of that is lacking.

Nowadays, sure! Even shoplifting used to be a crime, but if the laws against both are ignored (probably as a part of "reparations"), don't expect discouragement of either.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yuhuh.

I always say that if the genders were flipped and woman occupied the political sphere as much as men do currently, abortion wouldn't even be considered to be a political issue at all. Not even up for debate.

It'd just be presumed to be a self-evident human right.

Except there's a lot of women who are themselves staunchly opposed to it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Clever.
Regarding the death penalty, efficacy
is discouragement of others from
committing the same crime.
Evidence of that is lacking.

It's weird seeing so many on the Right in disagreement with you like I've noticed lately. Yeah, there's usually disagreement due to you being a Libertarian, but they're so far Right by comparison lots of MAGAs make you look like one those of those weirdo deep Left libertarians I call [ideologically] neighbor.

 

[flowerpower]

Except there's a lot of women who are themselves staunchly opposed to it.

There's good reason for that too.

Abortion is not a soft issue.

 

[Secret Chief]

I've heard of no case of an executed person committing murder thereafter.

No, it's a good system.

- Sentenced to death, but innocent: These are stories of justice gone wrong.

 

[Revoltingest]

Nowadays, sure! Even shoplifting used to be a crime, but if the laws against both are ignored (probably as a part of "reparations"), don't expect discouragement of either.

Shoplifting is still a crime outside of San Francisco.
But criminals are learning that cops don't protect
people or property. Protection is the responsibility
of the individual & business.
And a tricky business that is too.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's weird seeing so many on the Right in disagreement with you like I've noticed lately. Yeah, there's usually disagreement due to you being a Libertarian, but they're so far Right by comparison lots of MAGAs make you look like one those of those weirdo deep Left libertarians I call [ideologically] neighbor.

There is no such thing as a "left libertarian".
There is only "libertairan", which is about
both social and economic liberty.
Lose the latter, & you've also lost the former.

 

[setarcos]

This isn't something that is to be solved.
It is what it is.
Thus...
**** government.

I don't think you mean **** government since you yourself said people need some governing. I think what your trying to say is **** the people that are failing at governing properly.
I can't think of a single segment of society of which some people **** it up from the way it was intended to be. Our government doesn't have a monopoly on being the only institution that is being ran by some ****ed up people.
As it is in religious institutions...more often than not its the people that are failing the institution not the institution that is failing the people.
WE are that ****ed up government.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There is no such thing as a "left libertarian".

That's just according to you. Social liberty and economic freedom are not the same side of the same coin. And so politicial theorists, philosophers amd other such do indeed have libertarian as a little l as that initially was a left wing thing and did describe social liberties. It's primarily in America where there is capital L libertarian that also emphasises market freedom as espoused by those such as the Kochs, Friedman and Nozick.
It's like how little c communism existed way before Marx, but there is also the capital C Communism that is generally attributed to him.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

WE are that ****ed up government.

That doesn't really work as a universal in America where many of us don't have anyone who reflects our views due to the two party rule, and don't have anyone in who we voted for due to the winner take all system.
For a country that harps on endlessly about being a champion of democracy its election system, by design, effectively silences and excludes larges portions of the population.

 

[setarcos]

Have any research showing that
the death penalty reduces crime?

This is interesting. I've got plenty of anecdotal evidence asking people about such things that it is somewhat of a deterrent. A deterrent in that it increases the amount of acceptable odds of getting caught that a person is willing to accept before committing the crime. Crimes of insanity, that is of overbearing passion excepted. One needs to have rational control to determine those odds.
For example: if a kid knows he will get caught for shoplifting and he will go to jail then its much less likely that that kid will attempt to shop lift or commit whatever crime.
If a rational person knows he will get caught for committing the crime, doesn't want to die, and knows he will be put to death for the crime then its much less likely that they will commit the crime.
Of course as I've said...anecdotal and there is a lot of psychological complexity involved when a person calculates what their willing to accept before taking action.
But lets flip your question. Have you any research showing that the death penalty doesn't reduce the likelihood of certain crimes, reduce the cost of housing irredeemably sick individuals for life and/or is less inhumane than incarcerating such individuals for life?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Nowadays, sure! Even shoplifting used to be a crime, but if the laws against both are ignored (probably as a part of "reparations"), don't expect discouragement of either.

What do "reparations" have to do with shoplifting, exactly?

 

[setarcos]

That doesn't really work as a universal in America where many of us don't have anyone who reflects our views due to the two party rule, and don't have anyone in who we voted for due to the winner take all system.
For a country that harps on endlessly about being a champion of democracy its election system, by design, effectively silences and excludes larges portions of the population.

Never the less, the pool from which those elections dip from is the citizens. As many I'm sure can attest even those who one thought reflected their views when they voted often find their candidate conflicting with those views later.
There is no universal consensus of correct views when it comes to a sick society. We the people are often our own worst enemies but ignore that fact in preference of blaming some other source of our miseries.
Representative democratic government would work by design, at least in the sense that it may be the lesser of all evils when it comes to governing, if it weren't for our failure to follow its principles with honor, dignity, respect, and truthfulness.
Its not just those in Government who have seemingly lost these qualities.
Our sick government is a reflection of our sick society in general. Society in general just finds it easier to blame anyone but ourselves.
We culture worship movie stars, scantily clad music entertainers, and billionaires by buying the smut they produce, and the psychological bull**** they spoon feed us, attend to their desires, their comforts, and services, as if they are demigods, all while otherwise ignoring the civil damage their doing except when it starts effecting our own elusive comfort.
We gluttonously eat up violence in MMA, WWE, and other sports while underpaying or otherwise have beg for funding those who would teach our progeny virtues and educational values. We devour so called reality tv showing the worst in human vice and the shallowest of human behaviors and so support and promote its continued existence. We tolerate the bad behaviors, turn a blind eye to the miseries of our neighbors, covet our collections, ignore our over consumptive habits, I could go on and on....and its all of us. Not just the big bad evil government.
That big bad evil government gets its people from US.
The only way to fix these things is to collectively realize WE our the problem. Then collectively determine to do something about that.
I have no hope that it will ever happen.
And that's why I place my hope beyond human endeavors.
Please forgive my rambling here.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Our sick government is a reflection of our sick society in general.

The government is partly broken because the election process was set up to prevent slave owning slaves from using that population to their political advantage and it was never updated once slavery was abolsihed.
There's also lobbyists who take government increasingly away from the People and giving it to the elites.
Russia isn't the only one who's tried to tamper with an election.
This collective guilt overlooks a lot of what is going on, like how it's actually only a minority of citizens, through this obsolete election system, making things horribly bad.
Like how most Americans actually agree with Dems on most issues. Thus you can't really pin the environment on We the People because we want to address that, it's Reps and their prime fan base who prevents that because in America 1 vote is not equal to 1 vote.

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't think you mean **** government since you yourself said people need some governing. I think what your trying to say is **** the people that are failing at governing properly.
I can't think of a single segment of society of which some people **** it up from the way it was intended to be. Our government doesn't have a monopoly on being the only institution that is being ran by some ****ed up people.
As it is in religious institutions...more often than not its the people that are failing the institution not the institution that is failing the people.
WE are that ****ed up government.

In short....
**** government.

 

[Revoltingest]

That's just according to you. Social liberty and economic freedom are not the same side of the same coin. And so politicial theorists, philosophers amd other such do indeed have libertarian as a little l as that initially was a left wing thing and did describe social liberties. It's primarily in America where there is capital L libertarian that also emphasises market freedom as espoused by those such as the Kochs, Friedman and Nozick.
It's like how little c communism existed way before Marx, but there is also the capital C Communism that is generally attributed to him.

There is no country where restricted economies
(eg, socialism) have social liberty. Why?
Government exploits all power at its command.
If it can be authoritarian economically, then it
will be socially. This is borne out by reality.
Thus, left libertarianism is oxymoronic.

 

[Revoltingest]

This is interesting. I've got plenty of anecdotal evidence asking people about such things that it is somewhat of a deterrent. A deterrent in that it increases the amount of acceptable odds of getting caught that a person is willing to accept before committing the crime. Crimes of insanity, that is of overbearing passion excepted. One needs to have rational control to determine those odds.
For example: if a kid knows he will get caught for shoplifting and he will go to jail then its much less likely that that kid will attempt to shop lift or commit whatever crime.
If a rational person knows he will get caught for committing the crime, doesn't want to die, and knows he will be put to death for the crime then its much less likely that they will commit the crime.
Of course as I've said...anecdotal and there is a lot of psychological complexity involved when a person calculates what their willing to accept before taking action.
But lets flip your question. Have you any research showing that the death penalty doesn't reduce the likelihood of certain crimes, reduce the cost of housing irredeemably sick individuals for life and/or is less inhumane than incarcerating such individuals for life?

I find that people aren't always rational.
So evidence would have to be more than
questions answered. We must deal with
actual behavior in real world circumstances.