The Law

[Ron Hackel]

Ken

REVELATION 21 : 23 "The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light and the lamb is its lamp."

Could this be the sun and moon the verse is talking about? God said he would be a wall of fire around the city when it returns. If the city is 1500 miles on a side and as high, that is going to be a very luminous looking site. This sight would be easily seven times brighter than our sun. Is there no way I can get you to consider that sin is simply doubting in a loving God? If God is unconditional love as the apostles said it means God is unconditional love. There are no conditions to be met. For God to have the universe run under the law of love he must have everyone do his will. By us having freewill our decisions reflect what is best for us. That is why Paul said our fleshly nature is in conflict with the Spiritual. God runs the universe under the law of love-the law of giving. Everyone does what is best for everyone Only an all knowing God can orchestrate everyone to function in a manner that is best for all. And as Paul said in Corinthians the only way to know God's will is to have his Spirit reside in us. To do this God must restore trust in a loving God. God would not put his Spirit in anyone that did not trust him.

 

[Ken Brown]

Ken

REVELATION 21 : 23 "The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light and the lamb is its lamp."

Could this be the sun and moon the verse is talking about? God said he would be a wall of fire around the city when it returns. If the city is 1500 miles on a side and as high, that is going to be a very luminous looking site. This sight would be easily seven times brighter than our sun. Is there no way I can get you to consider that sin is simply doubting in a loving God? If God is unconditional love as the apostles said it means God is unconditional love. There are no conditions to be met. For God to have the universe run under the law of love he must have everyone do his will. By us having freewill our decisions reflect what is best for us. That is why Paul said our fleshly nature is in conflict with the Spiritual. God runs the universe under the law of love-the law of giving. Everyone does what is best for everyone Only an all knowing God can orchestrate everyone to function in a manner that is best for all. And as Paul said in Corinthians the only way to know God's will is to have his Spirit reside in us. To do this God must restore trust in a loving God. God would not put his Spirit in anyone that did not trust him.

Shalom Ron, thank you again for the response. I can understand your desire for us to believe as you do, as it does give you much self worth to have a belief that is not understood or accepted by others. But you probably will eventually become like Elohim, in that you will get tired of "winking" at their unbelief, and eventually require that they repent of their stubborn lack of acceptance in what you say and teach:

Acts 17:30-31
30 And the times of this ignorance Elohim winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because He hath appointed a day, in the which He will judge the world in righteousness by [that] Man whom He hath ordained; [whereof] He hath given assurance unto all [men], in that He hath raised Him from the dead.

Now concerning one of your beliefs. If the city has 4 walls of fire (god) around it that is 1500 miles long and high, how could the light of that fire be seven times brighter than the light of our sun that is about 2,713,406 miles in circumference? Ron, if you are going to look at things along "literal" lines, you need to be a little more logical. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

P.S. Have you ever wondered what it means that the Moon would not give Her Light (Isaiah 13:10, Ezekiel 32:7, Matthew 24:29, Mark 13:24), or how the Moon would be turned to Blood (Joel 2:31, Acts of the Apostles 2:20, Revelation 6:12)?

 

[Ron Hackel]

Ken
Doesn't repent mean to turn to have a change of mind. Quit thinking of God as the Mount Sinai god. Yes, we are 93,000,000 miles from the sun. You'll be standing in close proximity to the wall. Not so illogical. Was the fire in the bush literal? Was the fire on the mountain literal?

The solar system is going to blow up. There will be no sun or moon to give it's light. And were having a blood moon on the 28th. It's the eighth tetrad since Christ's time. A time of rebirth as circumcision was supposed to symbolize.

All the churches use the meaning of righteous as living a moral life. Yes, you should lead a moral life, but that is not what God is going to judge you on.

JOHN 8 : 15 "You judge by human standards, I pass judgment on no one."

Your thinking is the human judgment that you must have retribution. Here is God's definition of justice.

ZECHARIAH 9 : 7 "This is what THE LORD ALMIGHTY SAYS: Administer true justice; show mercy and compassion to each other."

Does that sound like the justice your advocating for God's children? God said he winked. but now he will judge the world in righteousness-whether they know him or not.

ZECHARIAH 11 : 14 "Then I broke my staff called Union, breaking the brotherhood between Judah and Israel."

The remnant-144,000 compared to the rest of his people because they refuse to accept a God of love.

JEREMIAH 23 : 1-4 "Woe to the shepherds who are destroying the sheep of my pasture!......................I will place shepherds over them who will tend them, and they will NO LONGER BE AFRAID OR TERRIFIED"

Your teaching is a god to be terrified of as the Jews were at Mount Sinai. They asked Moses top talk to them for them because they were deathly afraid of him. Did Jesus get the same response? No! Many times he had to hide to get a moment to himself. They mobbed him night and day. He showed the true character of our Father.

AMOS 7 : 8 "I am setting a plumb line among my people Israel; I will spare them no longer."
ISAIAH 28 : 17 "I will make justice the measuring line and righteousness the plumb line."

Do you think maybe Satan has gotten mankind to have the wrong ideas of the definition that should be used?

AMOS 6 : 12 "But you have turned justice into poison (retribution) and the fruit of righteousness into bitterness (instead of a loving God a fearful one)"

Again God using fruit as an analog for his character. Isaiah 5 said the Jews didn't bear fruit suitable for wine. Psalm 80 said they were a grapevine taken out of Egypt but were burned by God and Jesus said he was the true vine. He bore the fruit of God's true character. The apostles were called the firstfruit of the Spirit by Paul. Jesus said he was the Spirit of truth and that he would expose the guilt of the world in regard to sin. And he said in regard to sin because people do not believe in me.

You all seem to think God has to have what humans consider justice.

MALACHI 2 : 17 "You have wearied the Lord with your words. How have we wearied him? You ask. By saying......Where is the God of justice?"

What you think of as the wicked simply have freewill and are doing things with a selfish nature which goes hand in hand with freewill. God is proving freewill and the law of greed to be faulty ideas. If he is using us to prove it, it would be silly to punish us for being part of the demonstration.

MALACHI 2 : 10 "Have we not all one Father? did not one God create us? why do we profane the covenant of our fathers by breaking with one another?

ISAIAH 45 : 9-11 "Does the clay say to the potter, 'What are you making/' Does your work say, 'He has no hands?'" You're asking if God is making a faulty human. We all have a role in proving Lucifer wrong.
"Woe to him who says to his father, 'What have you begotten?' or to his mother, 'What have you brought to birth?'.........................Do you question me about my children, or give me orders about the work of my hands?"

Am I frustrated that you don't believe. Of course, I want all to be alive in heaven. It used to bother me, but I have come to the realization that it is all part of the demonstration. Even though I've shown hundreds of verses that show God to be total love you cling to a dark god that will destroy as the Jews did when Jesus came. They didn't want a God of love, they wanted one that would kick the Romans butts out of Jerusalem.

 

[Milton Platt]

I came across this:

"Some Christians believe that they should keep old covenant observances such as the weekly and annual Sabbaths. A person is a "true Christian" only if he or she observes Sabbaths and certain other old covenant requirements. But the truth is that these old worship regulations are not required today, and it is legalistic to teach that people must obey those rules in order to be accounted worthy of salvation."

That is a popular argument for why Christians don't observe those Laws...

Why does that paragraph say the things that it says? First the Bible commanded us to keep 613 Commandments. Where is the prophecy in the "Old Testament" that says those Laws would someday be invalid or no longer required?

So, basically, Christians believe: For example: the Mr. Smith was born 30 B.C.E. He lived a good life before the birth of the Savior and observed those Laws with all his ability. Somewhere around 34 C.E. he no longer had to observe them (for whatever reason.

True? At what exact point in history did those Laws become invalid? What Bible verses in the "Old Testament" prove this?

This cannot be proven. In fact, the opposite is true since there are a dozen or more prophesies about the Law being and standing for ever.
[Zecharyah was written in 520 B.C.E.]
Zechariah 14:18-19 says that the heathen will be forced to observe and travel to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. This prophesy has never been fulfilled, nor has there ever been circumstances that even remotely resembled it.

Why would Yahweh force all people to observe a Feast that is no longer valid, and has no purpose? Why would Yahweh force people to be "legalistic?"

Also, I must point out that the prophecy is that Yahweh will force the heathen to keep the Feast. Does this mean that the Christians are keeping it already voluntarily? Or, does it mean that the Feast of Tabernacles will be a part of Hell?

[FYI I observe the Feast of Tabernacles Deut. 12:5-6]

Don't know about the feast, and don't even care.......but Christains say that they don't have to keep the old covenant and then try to quote the ten commandments (which they clearly do not follow anyway)

 

[Ken Brown]

Ken
Doesn't repent mean to turn to have a change of mind. Quit thinking of God as the Mount Sinai god. Yes, we are 93,000,000 miles from the sun. You'll be standing in close proximity to the wall. Not so illogical. Was the fire in the bush literal? Was the fire on the mountain literal?

The solar system is going to blow up. There will be no sun or moon to give it's light. And were having a blood moon on the 28th. It's the eighth tetrad since Christ's time. A time of rebirth as circumcision was supposed to symbolize.

All the churches use the meaning of righteous as living a moral life. Yes, you should lead a moral life, but that is not what God is going to judge you on.

JOHN 8 : 15 "You judge by human standards, I pass judgment on no one."

Your thinking is the human judgment that you must have retribution. Here is God's definition of justice.

ZECHARIAH 9 : 7 "This is what THE LORD ALMIGHTY SAYS: Administer true justice; show mercy and compassion to each other."

Does that sound like the justice your advocating for God's children? God said he winked. but now he will judge the world in righteousness-whether they know him or not.

ZECHARIAH 11 : 14 "Then I broke my staff called Union, breaking the brotherhood between Judah and Israel."

The remnant-144,000 compared to the rest of his people because they refuse to accept a God of love.

JEREMIAH 23 : 1-4 "Woe to the shepherds who are destroying the sheep of my pasture!......................I will place shepherds over them who will tend them, and they will NO LONGER BE AFRAID OR TERRIFIED"

Your teaching is a god to be terrified of as the Jews were at Mount Sinai. They asked Moses top talk to them for them because they were deathly afraid of him. Did Jesus get the same response? No! Many times he had to hide to get a moment to himself. They mobbed him night and day. He showed the true character of our Father.

AMOS 7 : 8 "I am setting a plumb line among my people Israel; I will spare them no longer."
ISAIAH 28 : 17 "I will make justice the measuring line and righteousness the plumb line."

Do you think maybe Satan has gotten mankind to have the wrong ideas of the definition that should be used?

AMOS 6 : 12 "But you have turned justice into poison (retribution) and the fruit of righteousness into bitterness (instead of a loving God a fearful one)"

Again God using fruit as an analog for his character. Isaiah 5 said the Jews didn't bear fruit suitable for wine. Psalm 80 said they were a grapevine taken out of Egypt but were burned by God and Jesus said he was the true vine. He bore the fruit of God's true character. The apostles were called the firstfruit of the Spirit by Paul. Jesus said he was the Spirit of truth and that he would expose the guilt of the world in regard to sin. And he said in regard to sin because people do not believe in me.

You all seem to think God has to have what humans consider justice.

MALACHI 2 : 17 "You have wearied the Lord with your words. How have we wearied him? You ask. By saying......Where is the God of justice?"

What you think of as the wicked simply have freewill and are doing things with a selfish nature which goes hand in hand with freewill. God is proving freewill and the law of greed to be faulty ideas. If he is using us to prove it, it would be silly to punish us for being part of the demonstration.

MALACHI 2 : 10 "Have we not all one Father? did not one God create us? why do we profane the covenant of our fathers by breaking with one another?

ISAIAH 45 : 9-11 "Does the clay say to the potter, 'What are you making/' Does your work say, 'He has no hands?'" You're asking if God is making a faulty human. We all have a role in proving Lucifer wrong.
"Woe to him who says to his father, 'What have you begotten?' or to his mother, 'What have you brought to birth?'.........................Do you question me about my children, or give me orders about the work of my hands?"

Am I frustrated that you don't believe. Of course, I want all to be alive in heaven. It used to bother me, but I have come to the realization that it is all part of the demonstration. Even though I've shown hundreds of verses that show God to be total love you cling to a dark god that will destroy as the Jews did when Jesus came. They didn't want a God of love, they wanted one that would kick the Romans butts out of Jerusalem.

Shalom Ron, I understand your frustration, and you have been given a "glimpse" as to what Elohim is doing, but your final analysis is faulty. Sure, Elohim "desires" that ALL repent and come to a knowledge of the Truth, and His Plan CONSIGNED ALL to disobedience (Romans 11:32), including Adam and Eve, because He FIRST created mankind CARNAL (1 Corinthians 15:45-46), and that carnality/flesh is what SOLD us to be slaves to sin (Romans 7:14). Even Yeshua said that IF you sin, you are a SLAVE or SERVANT of sin (John 8:34), and Yeshua did not say that IF you sin, you BECOME the slave or servant of sin. IFyou sin (as did Adam and Eve), you ARE a slave or servant of sin, and Yeshua's role is to FREE us FROM that slavery. And here is the distinction between what you teach and what I believe. You teach that no matter how much evil one does, their ONLY true sin is to NOT believe that "god" will save them while they REMAIN sinners, and I believe that Elohim is FIRST saving an ELECT from BEING sinners (Acts of The Apostles 3:26), and that eventually the majority of mankind will ALSO be saved from BEING sinners. Those who REFUSE this salvation (to turn from their iniquities) will REMAIN outside the city (Revelation 22:14-15), as Elohim does not want an Eternal existence with them. Would you want to exist forever with those who cannot refrain from LYING? Be honest Ron. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew

P.S. And WHAT is the Catalyst that redeems sinners FROM their life of sin?

 

[Ron Hackel]

Ken
As long as you have freewill you cannot refrain from the sin you are talking about (immoral acts). Paul said our carnal nature was in opposition to our spiritual nature and that the two were not compatible. Our spiritual nature is the law of God (the law of love-the law of giving). The disciples received the Spirit and then practiced the law of love. They shared everything. With your carnal nature have you shared everything you possess with others. I haven't and I'm suspecting you haven't either. Yes, we give to others, but we wouldn't do it to the point where we would be needing others to supply us. We give up to a point. We don't trust that God will supply. We don't have 401 accounts because we trust God. Don't come back with God wants us to protect ourselves as I think you did in one response. Didn't your people go into battle once simply singing hymns of praise to God? Now some do give to the point of depriving themselves, but their reason is usually fear of punishment from God. God said I must give, so I'm obeying.

The only way mankind will all practice the law of love and do God's will is by having God's Spirit in us as the disciples were given at Pentecost. Even if you want to do God's will, how do you know for sure what it is?

1 CORINTHIANS 2 : 11 "For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God."

When the demonstration is over we will all be given God's Spirit.

1 CORINTHIANS 15 : 28 "so that God may be all in all
1 JOHN 4 : 13 "We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us his Spirit."
COLOSSIANS 1 : 27 "To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory."

God could only give it to a few because he is proving Lucifer's other claims to be untrue using mankind in the demonstration. Most will have freewill in the demonstration. They will be slaves to Satan's suggestions. Satan's rule of this planet results in its total destruction. God gave his Spirit to a few all through history to keep the knowledge of his character alive.. Only a few so that no one could say that Lucifer didn't have a fair chance. How many times was a prophet ever believed? It was all done for the final day.

ROMANS 9 : 21 "Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes (prophets) and some for common use?"

If you feel God is going to get rid of some of your brothers and sisters after the Scripture I showed in my last post, what more can I say. God will free your mind after the demonstration though. As Pharaoh, we all have our role to play.

Ron

 

[Ken Brown]

Ken
As long as you have freewill you cannot refrain from the sin you are talking about (immoral acts). Paul said our carnal nature was in opposition to our spiritual nature and that the two were not compatible. Our spiritual nature is the law of God (the law of love-the law of giving). The disciples received the Spirit and then practiced the law of love. They shared everything. With your carnal nature have you shared everything you possess with others. I haven't and I'm suspecting you haven't either. Yes, we give to others, but we wouldn't do it to the point where we would be needing others to supply us. We give up to a point. We don't trust that God will supply. We don't have 401 accounts because we trust God. Don't come back with God wants us to protect ourselves as I think you did in one response. Didn't your people go into battle once simply singing hymns of praise to God? Now some do give to the point of depriving themselves, but their reason is usually fear of punishment from God. God said I must give, so I'm obeying.

The only way mankind will all practice the law of love and do God's will is by having God's Spirit in us as the disciples were given at Pentecost. Even if you want to do God's will, how do you know for sure what it is?

1 CORINTHIANS 2 : 11 "For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God."

When the demonstration is over we will all be given God's Spirit.

1 CORINTHIANS 15 : 28 "so that God may be all in all
1 JOHN 4 : 13 "We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us his Spirit."
COLOSSIANS 1 : 27 "To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory."

God could only give it to a few because he is proving Lucifer's other claims to be untrue using mankind in the demonstration. Most will have freewill in the demonstration. They will be slaves to Satan's suggestions. Satan's rule of this planet results in its total destruction. God gave his Spirit to a few all through history to keep the knowledge of his character alive.. Only a few so that no one could say that Lucifer didn't have a fair chance. How many times was a prophet ever believed? It was all done for the final day.

ROMANS 9 : 21 "Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes (prophets) and some for common use?"

If you feel God is going to get rid of some of your brothers and sisters after the Scripture I showed in my last post, what more can I say. God will free your mind after the demonstration though. As Pharaoh, we all have our role to play.

Ron

Shalom Ron, it's just that you are not looking at ALL of the Scriptures properly. You cherry pick some verses out of context and build a whole system of improper thinking out of them. There is a multitude of Scriptures, when looked at in their proper context, will provide a much different view of Elohim, and how He rewards BOTH the righteous and the unrighteous, and that everyone will receive that judgment.

Concerning FEAR, and how WE should work out our salvation with FEAR and TREMBLING, how do you discount these Scriptures:

Pss 2:10-12
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11 Serve Yahweh with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, and ye perish [from] The Way, when His wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed [are] all they that put their trust in Him.

Php 2:9-13
9 Wherefore Elohim also hath highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Yeshua every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth;
11 And [that] every tongue should confess that Yeshua Messiah [is] Yahweh, to the glory of Elohim the Father.
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is Elohim which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

And how do you address the GREAT FEAR which fell over the Saints right after Pentecost, when Ananias and Sapphira LIED to the Holy Spirit:

Acts 5:1-11
1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
2 And kept back [part] of the price, his wife also being privy [to it], and brought a certain part, and laid [it] at the apostles' feet.
3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto Elohim.
5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried [him] out, and buried [him].
7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of Yahweh? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband [are] at the door, and shall carry thee out.
10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying [her] forth, buried [her] by her husband.
11 And great fear came upon ALL the church, and upon as many as heard these things.

Ron, IF your teaching is correct about the "god" of the OT giving the Israelites the FEARFUL "god" that they desired, by FEARING and not LOVING him, how is it that ALL the Church had GREAT FEAR, probably even a greater fear than what the Israelites had in the wilderness, so how is it that the Church of the NT didn't receive the FEARFUL "god" as did the Israelites? You have a difficult issue to resolve here. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[Ron Hackel]

Ken
Don't say there is a great multitude, because there is not. The Scripture about Ananias and Sapphira is confusing with my teaching and I hope to come up with a satisfactory explanation, BUT IT IS NOT the multitude of Scripture. Everything about Jesus shouts that he and the Mount Sinai god were direct opposites. If God is as you say, I don't want to be in his kingdom. I sure don't want to be in a hell, and if saying he is loving, is what gets me there, I'll curse that legalistic tyrant night and day.

In your verses from the Psalms, do you understand what fear and wrath actually mean? God gave us this verse in Isaiah 8:20 "to the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn."

MATTHEW 7 : 12 "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."

The Prophets wrote the testimony, so Jesus would be saying, if they say anything about God that goes against the law of love it is not true. So do you interpret this differently? If not, Jesus and I are liars about God.

 

[Ron Hackel]

Ken
I've read the verses about A.&S. several times. It doesn't sound good, but you'd never get a conviction on God in any court. It really doesn't say what killed them. You are purely making assumptions because there is no smoking gun as far as Scripture that says what happened. I'm not trying to cop out on your question it just doesn't say anything that firmly establishes what they died of one way or the other. If as you say you have a preponderance of Scripture come up with an example with hard Scriptural proof.

On your serve Yahweh with fear. In Job, Satan said does Job fear God for no reason, he's given him everything he could want. So fear in this sense is an awesome respect. And God's wrath is giving you what you desire.

The verses where God's name is to be highly exalted is referring that he has proven all of Lucifer's accusation to be false simply by using love. Every knee will bow after the thousand years when he raises all that doubted him at the second coming and welcomes them into the city on the new earth. How many verses do you think I have presented you and you've never really addressed any explaining how they were wrong. Were probably never going to come to an agreement but I'd like to hear your explanation of a few verses.

The verses in Romans (3:9-12) in which Paul says both Jews and Gentiles are under sin. He goes on to say that no one is righteous because they don't understand God. What was Paul trying to tell the Jews in this interaction if not that both the Jews and Gentiles tried to appease their gods?

In verse 23, Paul said all are sinners and fall short of the glory of God. Do you agree with Christians that because we do immoral things that God can't stand to look at us? I've also heard that God can't stand to be in the presence of sin and Jesus came so God could see him instead of us. It preaches well, but sounds really stupid. As I remember Satan came to meetings held by God and had conversations (Job 1).

I would also like you to address Isaiah 8:20. It seems self explanatory, so enlighten me to how I'm misreading it.

When Jesus said for the man who hears my word but does not keep it, I do not judge him. What does it mean?

I'll just do those 3 for a start. If you have other verses to explain I'd be glad to have a shot at them. That is how we learn, right?

Ron

 

[Ken Brown]

Ken
Don't say there is a great multitude, because there is not. The Scripture about Ananias and Sapphira is confusing with my teaching and I hope to come up with a satisfactory explanation, BUT IT IS NOT the multitude of Scripture. Everything about Jesus shouts that he and the Mount Sinai god were direct opposites. If God is as you say, I don't want to be in his kingdom. I sure don't want to be in a hell, and if saying he is loving, is what gets me there, I'll curse that legalistic tyrant night and day.

In your verses from the Psalms, do you understand what fear and wrath actually mean? God gave us this verse in Isaiah 8:20 "to the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn."

MATTHEW 7 : 12 "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."

The Prophets wrote the testimony, so Jesus would be saying, if they say anything about God that goes against the law of love it is not true. So do you interpret this differently? If not, Jesus and I are liars about God.

Shalom Ron, everything is just the opposite. Yeshua WAS the Mount Sinai Yahweh, and as The Rock that accompanied the Israelites (1 Corinthians 10:1-4), He LOVED them, and gave them The Testimony and The Torah (Deuteronomy 10:1-22). This Covenant of Marriage was made with Two Sisters who backslid and were unfaithful to Him, but He was willing to forgive and be a Husband to them, if only they would receive Him (Jeremiah 3:1-25). Israel was divorced, and Judah should have been, and as Yahweh/Yeshua came to His OWN, and they received Him not, and killed Him. But it was impossible for death to keep it's hold on Him, and He rose and took a New Bride, one that will Love and Fear Him in ALL holiness (2 Corinthians 7:1), and be faithful to obey His commandments, by loving Him (John 14:15, 21, John 15:10), and following Him in what He did (Philippians 2:5-11) in giving up everything for the sake of others. He was Yahweh, and He gave up that identity to become a man, humbling Himself so that sinners could be FREED from the slavery of sin. And here is the thing, if anyone refuses to LISTEN to Him, Elohim will require it of them (Deuteronomy 18:19, Acts of The Apostles 3:22-23). Ananias and Sapphira refused to LISTEN, and it was required of them, and that should be an example for the rest of us in learning how to FEAR Yeshua, My Yahweh, and My Elohim. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[12jtartar]

Latuwr

Why does everyone assume that the sin the Bible is talking about is our physical acts and not what we think about God's character? Since God is unconditional love there are no conditions that can bring about a separation between us and God. Someone asked me where I saw in Scripture that God was unconditional love. That is the definition of agape love. It was the Greek word that the apostles used to describe the love Jesus had. It was a word that the Greeks came up with to describe an unattainable love, because it required nothing in return from the one loving. For humans this is basically impossible. We love if the other person responds in like fashion. If we become betrayed our love can soon turn to one of extreme hate. God is proving freewill to be undesirable. God proves things by letting us experience the consequence of our actions.

ZECHARIAH 4 : 6 "Not by might nor power, but by my Spirit."

As a God of love he demands nothing. Think about it. All god's laws are perfect. What he suggests is always going to be the best possible decision. When we go against his advice we fail. sometimes big failures, sometimes small, but we fail. It is called God's wrath. Paul said it was God letting us go, doing it our way. It always turns out bad and Satan has said to our minds, "See God is showing you his wrath." God is simply letting you do what you want. That's love, right? Lucifer said that God's created beings should have freewill. If God doesn't demand obedience, how does he prove Lucifer wrong? He created us to demonstrate the flaws in freewill. As long as we have freewill we are slaves to Satan. God said he was made perfect in wisdom. We are no match for his suggestions to our minds. He knows exactly what lies will sway each individual mind. God in proving freewill a faulty idea has kept a few from being controlled by Satan. As Paul said that God made out of the same lump of dough some for noble purposes (prophets) and some for common. Most have to be common because otherwise Lucifer would not have been given a fair chance to prove his claims. God has kept the few because this earth is going to explode in the near future proving the fallacy of another of Lucifer's claims that he could rule in a superior fashion than God. His way is the law of greed, in contrast to God's law of love (law of giving, everyone lives to give). God is big time into recycling-all the cycles on earth. he has used us as a demonstration and just before it blows he is coming back to save any of us not afraid to come to him to be saved. Unfortunately people that believe in a punishing God will be doomed.

Ron Hackel,
I have never read posts by a person who knows as little as you do about the Bible, or God. You do not e en have a nodding acquaintance with the Holy Scriptures.
Please, Please, do not write as if you are teaching, because you are putting yourself in the worst position possible, you could STUMBLE anyone who would believe your assertions, Matt 18:6,7, James 3:1, 1Cor 8:11,12, Rom 14:15, 1Tim 1:5-7, 2Pet 3:15,16.
NOW, Please learn from the Bible!!!
It is very true that God is love, 1John 4:8,16. God is also ready to forgive, Ps 86:5, and if you confess sins God will forgive, 1John1:9. In order to gain salvation everyone MUST believe in, Jesus' ransom sacrifice, Acts 4:12, Gal 2:16, and we must all call on the NAME of Jesus' Father, the only True God, Jehovah, Ps 83:18, Ex 6:3, John 17:3, Acts 2:21, Rom 10:13, Matt 20:28, 1John 2:1-6, 1Pet 2:21.
God is forgiving and does not want any to be destroyed, 2Pet 3:9,10, John 3:15-18.
You see the condition that the earth is in today. God will not allow these conditions to go on much longer!!!
So, God is also a God of vengeance, Ps 94:1,2, Nahum 1:2,3, Zeph 1:14-18, Jere 25:29-33.
God is also going to bring vengeance against this generation, 2Pet 3:3-7, Acts 17:30,31, Rom 3:5,6.
God only loves those who love Him, Pro 8:17, and He will kill all who hate Him, Deut 7:9,10, 1John 5:3.
Jehovah God is sending His son to be the executioner of all who do not know God well, and those who do not obey the lord Jesus, 2Thes 1:6-10, Matt 25: 31-46, Rev 19:11-21.
Jehovah is, indeed a loving God!!! It is an act of love to all who love Him, to remove from the earth all those who will not obey. Without this it would be impossible to have a paradise earth!!!

 

[Ron Hackel]

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Good luck to all you hate mongers. Luckily for us all, God is love.

 

[Ken Brown]

Ron Hackel,
I have never read posts by a person who knows as little as you do about the Bible, or God. You do not e en have a nodding acquaintance with the Holy Scriptures.
Please, Please, do not write as if you are teaching, because you are putting yourself in the worst position possible, you could STUMBLE anyone who would believe your assertions, Matt 18:6,7, James 3:1, 1Cor 8:11,12, Rom 14:15, 1Tim 1:5-7, 2Pet 3:15,16.
NOW, Please learn from the Bible!!!
It is very true that God is love, 1John 4:8,16. God is also ready to forgive, Ps 86:5, and if you confess sins God will forgive, 1John1:9. In order to gain salvation everyone MUST believe in, Jesus' ransom sacrifice, Acts 4:12, Gal 2:16, and we must all call on the NAME of Jesus' Father, the only True God, Jehovah, Ps 83:18, Ex 6:3, John 17:3, Acts 2:21, Rom 10:13, Matt 20:28, 1John 2:1-6, 1Pet 2:21.
God is forgiving and does not want any to be destroyed, 2Pet 3:9,10, John 3:15-18.
You see the condition that the earth is in today. God will not allow these conditions to go on much longer!!!
So, God is also a God of vengeance, Ps 94:1,2, Nahum 1:2,3, Zeph 1:14-18, Jere 25:29-33.
God is also going to bring vengeance against this generation, 2Pet 3:3-7, Acts 17:30,31, Rom 3:5,6.
God only loves those who love Him, Pro 8:17, and He will kill all who hate Him, Deut 7:9,10, 1John 5:3.
Jehovah God is sending His son to be the executioner of all who do not know God well, and those who do not obey the lord Jesus, 2Thes 1:6-10, Matt 25: 31-46, Rev 19:11-21.
Jehovah is, indeed a loving God!!! It is an act of love to all who love Him, to remove from the earth all those who will not obey. Without this it would be impossible to have a paradise earth!!!

Shalom 12jtartar, thank you for the involvement with this issue. Ron is very well versed in the Scriptures, it just his interpretation is not along traditional lines. I did give him some advice when he first started posting and I will give you the same. If you write the bible verses with the same spelling as the "sites" bible program, then they will link and will allow "mouse overs" so the readers of your posts will not have to look up the Scriptures you quote. I will show you here by spelling the bible verses as you did (first column), and then as they should be for the "mouse over" to work (second column):

Matt 18:6,7 Matthew 18:6-7
James 3:1 James 3:1
1Cor 8:11,12 1 Corinthians 8:11-12
Rom 14:15 Romans 14:15
1Tim 1:5-7 1 Timothy 1:5-7
2Pet 3:15,16 2 Peter 3:15-16
1John 4:8,16 1 John 4:8 1 John 4:16
Ps 86:5 Psalms 86:5
1John1:9 1 John 1:9
Ps 83:18 Psalms 83:18
Ex 6:3 Exodus 6:3
John 17:3 John 17:3
Acts 2:21 Acts of The Apostles 2:21
Rom 10:13 Romans 10:13
Matt 20:28 Matthew 20:28
1John 2:1-6 1 John 2:1-6
1Pet 2:21 1 Peter 2:21

I'm not going to do all of the Scriptures you listed, but a couple of them did work in your post as you listed them properly, but most did not work. Also, notice how you have to list the book of Acts "Acts of The Apostles" for it to work. Hope this helps your future posting. Blessings in the Name, ImAHebrew

P.S. You can also edit your post right after you post it and look to see if they all work, if they don't, you can re-type the Scripture so it will.

 

[Ken Brown]

Shalom All, I wonder if this Policy/Rule was enforced on this thread:

"Each member is allowed one login account. Registering with multiple accounts is not permitted and the multiple accounts will be removed. If the creation of multiple accounts continues an IP ban can result."

I just wish Admin would let us know when they do ban someone so we can understand why they are no longer around.

Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew

 

[dantech]

There was a similar thread a while ago, the responses weren't very different.

 

[Ken Brown]

There was a similar thread a while ago, the responses weren't very different.

Shalom dantech, it would be nice if you could give us a quick summary. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[Ron Hackel]

Ken
This is twice now that I swore I was through, but I'm a gluten to have others say how stupid I am. You've at least been civil. I want to ask you a few questions. Do you have Scripture as to why mankind was created? And have I shared with you the analogy God gave us using wine?

 

[Ken Brown]

Ken
This is twice now that I swore I was through, but I'm a gluten to have others say how stupid I am. You've at least been civil. I want to ask you a few questions. Do you have Scripture as to why mankind was created? And have I shared with you the analogy God gave us using wine?

Shalom Ron, thank you for the kind words. I'm not certain I can give you a specific Scripture which states why mankind was created, but I feel the Scriptures indicate the Elohim were/are in the process of bringing about a "restoration" of Themselves (Acts of The Apostles 3:21), so they could be glorified with an "increase" (John 12:23-28), but it FIRST took the creation of sowing a weak, dishonorable, corruptible natural or carnal man into the dust of the earth, so that a powerful, honorable, incorruptible, Spiritual Man could rise forth into the Heavenly, with great glory (1 Corinthians 15:36-50).

Concerning your belief that wine symbolizes Elohim's character, do you know what water symbolizes? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[Ron Hackel]

Ken
Evaluate this is far as why mankind was created.

1 PETER 2 : 9 "But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to god, THAT YOU MAY DECLARE THE PRAISES OF HIM WHO CALLED YOU OUT OF DARKNESS INTO HIS WONDERFUL LIGHT."

EXODUS 19 : 5&6 "Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, you will be for me a KINGDOM OF PRIESTS AND A HOLY NATION."

JEREMIAH 13 : 11&12 "For as a belt is bound around a man's waist, so I bound the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah to me' declares the Lord, 'to be my people FOR MY RENOWN AND PRAISE AND HONOR. But they have not listened.

"Say to them: 'This is what the Lord, the God of Israel says: EVERY WINESKIN SHOULD BE FILLED WITH WINE."

HOSEA 6 : 6&7 "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, AND ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF GOD rather than burnt offerings. Like Adam, they have broken the covenant."

Do you think Peter is saying the disciples were to do what the Jews had been unable to do? And not only the Jews but our first parents.

JEREMIAH 51 : 7 "Babylon was a gold cup in the Lord's hand; she made the whole earth drunk. The nations drank her wine; therefore they have now gone mad."

Babylon representing the pagan world and had gods that had to be appeased by sacrifice. As God said he did not want sacrifice. What loving father wants to have his children think they must bring a gift for him to love them? They gave the world maddening wine because they taught a false picture of God's character making the world go mad. The Jews were supposed to introduce the true picture of God's character to the world-their contract (covenant). They were supposed to be ready at all times to tell about a loving God (a full wineskin).

HOLY NATION

Sanctify is the Greek word hagiazo which means to make holy or SET APART FOR SACRED USE.

JOHN 17 : 17 "Sanctify them by the truth; your word is the truth."

So to be a holy nation met to know the truth about God. And set apart for sacred use, maybe to preach the gospel?

HEBREWS 4 : 2 "For we also have had the gospel preached to us as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith."

PSALM 78 : 32 "In spite of all this, they kept on SINNING; in spite of his wonders, they did not believe."

They got to the Red Sea and saw the Egyptians coming and they complained that God had delivered them just to die in the desert. God opened the sea and led them across but a few days later they grumbled again that he had saved them just so they go die of thirst. God sweetened the water at Marah. A few days later they grumbled that he had given them water just so they could starve to death. They refused to believe in a loving God. Is knowing we have a loving God the gospel or that Jesus had to appease a wrathful Father through sacrifice?

A NATION OF PRIESTS

MALACHI 2 : 1&2 "And now this admonition is for you, O priests. If you do not listen, and if you do not set your heart to HONOR MY NAME (name in Hebrew means one's character)
MALACHI 2 : 7 "For the lips of a priest ought to preserve knowledge, and from his mouth men should seek instruction."

Paul says basically the same as Peter in the following verse.

EPHESIANS 3 : 10 "His intent was that now, through the church (called out ones), the manifold wisdom of God (how he runs the universe) should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms (the ones Lucifer was bringing into doubt as told in REV 12:7), according to his eternal purpose (was always the plan and will be into eternity) which he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Rev 12:7 says there was war in heaven. The word war is translated from a Greek word meaning verbal conflict of accusations and claims. As Jesus said Lucifer was a liar. So basically Lucifer was lying about God's character. The war is being fought by Michael and his angels. Angel is the Greek word angelos and means messenger. Michael means one who is like God. Michael was the archangel. arch means chief. He was the chief messenger who is like God. God's messengers were the prophets. They brought the message of God's character through their writings in Scripture.

2 PETER 1 : 21 "For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."

So Jesus and the prophets are trying to clear God's name that has been sullied by Lucifer. If you read the parable of the tenants, Jesus is relating how the prophets tried to help the Jews fulfill their covenant and that finally Jesus would come and do it for them.

HEBREWS 1 : 1&2 "In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by hisSon."

COLOSSIANS 1 : 19&20 "For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by MAKING PEACE through his blood, shed on the cross."

Mankind has been created to counter Lucifer's accusations against God and claims about himself. Lucifer not only said God wasn't loving because he forced his created beings to do his will he said he had a better way to run the universe. As it says in ZECHARIAH 4:6 God does nothing by might nor power. He proves everything by a demonstration of the truth. God is using mankind to show the faultiness of having freewill and the law of greed. God had most of live under freewill so it could be proven wrong but also had a few that would keep the true knowledge of his character alive. He did this because this planet is going to blow up and he is coming to rescue us. If mankind would have had only the picture of gods as shown by the pagan world all would have run at the second coming.

ROMANS 9 : 21 "Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes (prophets) and some for common use?'

But, after the demonstration showing freewill and the law of greed to be untenable God is going to put his Spirit in all of us. How we run the new earth and how we interact with our children and siblings will give the universe a look at what their Creator is like.

ROMANS 11 : 16 "If the part of the dough offered as FIRSTFRUITS (first to produce fruit for good wine) is holy, the whole batch is holy (we were all created to reveal God's character).

The Jews were compared to a vineyard that didn't produce good fruit. Psalm 80 said they were a grapevine taken from Egypt but burned in the fire. Jesus said in John 15:1 that he was the true vine. He would show the true character of God. He told the disciples to do as I have done. That is exactly what Peter and Paul said they were doing.

COLOSSIANS 1 : 24 "Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions, for the sake of the church."

If Jesus was paying a penalty nothing would be lacking. But as long as this earth exists Satan will be distorting the character of God.

John the Baptist told the Pharisees to bear fruit in keeping with repentance. Repent means to turn and have a change of mind. They were worshiping the legalistic god shown them at Mount Sinai. Jesus was the exact opposite of that God. I think I already showed you that when Jesus returns the Spirit (living water) is going out from Mount Zion. It is the fall rains in the Jewish feasts. The spring rains was Pentecost. The fall rains comes right before the harvest. If you go to REVELATION 14 you'll see there are two harvests. One is taken into the city and the other remains outside the city in the winepress of God's wrath. God's wrath is simply giving you up to what you desire.

REVELATION 14 : 9&10 "If anyone worships the beast (organized religion teaching a god to be fearful of).................he too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath."

If you want to believe in the wine of Babylon, God allows you. God's physical appearance is one of a devouring fire. We are warned not to fear his glory as the Jews did. If you do this is what you will do.

ISAIAH 2 : 19 "Men will flee to caves in the rocks and to holes in the ground from dread of the Lord and the splendor of his majesty (his glory which looked like a devouring fire to the Jews), when he rises to shake the earth."

 

[Ron Hackel]

Ken
Water I guess would be the Spirit since it says he is the living water. Here is another study using sheep for God's people.

MATTHEW 25 : 31&32 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats."

Okay, if God does not use power or might how does he separate them? Also if he does nothing that goes against the law of love how can he separate some to be lost?

Jesus tells us.

JOHN 10 : 14 "I know my sheep and my sheep know me."
JOHN 10 : 3 "The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice."

Who is the watchman and what would the gate be?

HOSEA 9 : 8 "The prophet, along with God (Jesus-Michael), is the watchman over the people of my God."

The prophets testified to the character of God in Scripture and Jesus came and showed his character in the flesh(the word made flesh). The gate would be ours minds being opened to the true character of God.

The sheep will come into the city because they know God's character (one of total love) while the goats will run in the opposite direction away from the city. They run because God is a wall of fire around the city. By not knowing God's character they will think the fire is something to be feared as the Jews did at Mount Sinai.

EXODUS 24 : 17 "To the Israelites the glory of the Lord looked like a consuming fire.
PSALM 53 : 4&5 "Will evildoers never learn...............There they were, filled with dread, where there was nothing to dread."

According to the rest of you, evildoers do have something to dread from God.

ISAIAH 43 : 2 "When you walk through the fire, you will not be burned."

You all keep saying I misquote the Bible, but I'm the only one presenting a God of unconditional love as the apostles described Christ, when they used the Greek word agape to describe him.

Ron