The Law

[Ron Hackel]

Ken
In the parable of the tenants, Jesus said first came the messengers and then the Son to ask for fruit. If you've concluded that fruit is indeed an analog for God's character this should be simple. As Paul said in Hebrews 1:1 that first came the prophets and then the Son, the same as the parable. And Jesus said the following:

MATTHEW 12 : 41 "For they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now one greater than Jonah is here."
Messengers and then chief messenger.
MATTHEW 12 : 42 "for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon's wisdom, and now one greater than Solomon is here."
Messengers and then chief messenger.
JOHN 5 : 35 "John was a lamp that burned and gave light, and you chose for a time to enjoy his light. I have testimony weightier than that of John."
Messengers and then chief messenger.
1 TIMOTHY 6 : 13 "Christ Jesus who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made a good confession."
What was the confession?
JOHN 19 : 37 "In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth."
1 TIMOTHY 2 : 4-6 "who wants all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth................Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men."

Who do you pay a ransom to? Did God kidnap us or did Satan, by putting a false picture of God in our minds? If Satan kidnapped our minds what would happen if Jesus showed a God that wouldn't hurt us even if we tried to kill him?

JOHN 8 : 32 "Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
1 JOHN 5 : 20 "we know also that the Son of God has come and given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true."
1 JOHN 3 : 8 "The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work."
COLOSSIANS 2 : 15 "And having disarmed the powers and authorities (Remember the war in heaven was about accusations made by Lucifer), he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross."
If Satan said God didn't really love us, he'd be made a public spectacle at the cross. He would bruise Christ's heel, but Christ would crush his head.
HEBREWS 2 : 14 "so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death-that is, the devil."
He holds the power of death because if he can have you believe in a punishing God you'll probably not be too anxious to walk into something that looks like what you've been told hell looks like (the wall of fire).
If I'm wrong Ken, there sure is a lot of Scripture that agrees with what I've been shown.

Ron

 

[Ken Brown]

Ken
Evaluate this is far as why mankind was created.

1 PETER 2 : 9 "But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to god, THAT YOU MAY DECLARE THE PRAISES OF HIM WHO CALLED YOU OUT OF DARKNESS INTO HIS WONDERFUL LIGHT."

EXODUS 19 : 5&6 "Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, you will be for me a KINGDOM OF PRIESTS AND A HOLY NATION."

JEREMIAH 13 : 11&12 "For as a belt is bound around a man's waist, so I bound the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah to me' declares the Lord, 'to be my people FOR MY RENOWN AND PRAISE AND HONOR. But they have not listened.

"Say to them: 'This is what the Lord, the God of Israel says: EVERY WINESKIN SHOULD BE FILLED WITH WINE."

HOSEA 6 : 6&7 "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, AND ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF GOD rather than burnt offerings. Like Adam, they have broken the covenant."

Do you think Peter is saying the disciples were to do what the Jews had been unable to do? And not only the Jews but our first parents.

JEREMIAH 51 : 7 "Babylon was a gold cup in the Lord's hand; she made the whole earth drunk. The nations drank her wine; therefore they have now gone mad."

Babylon representing the pagan world and had gods that had to be appeased by sacrifice. As God said he did not want sacrifice. What loving father wants to have his children think they must bring a gift for him to love them? They gave the world maddening wine because they taught a false picture of God's character making the world go mad. The Jews were supposed to introduce the true picture of God's character to the world-their contract (covenant). They were supposed to be ready at all times to tell about a loving God (a full wineskin).

HOLY NATION

Sanctify is the Greek word hagiazo which means to make holy or SET APART FOR SACRED USE.

JOHN 17 : 17 "Sanctify them by the truth; your word is the truth."

So to be a holy nation met to know the truth about God. And set apart for sacred use, maybe to preach the gospel?

HEBREWS 4 : 2 "For we also have had the gospel preached to us as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith."

PSALM 78 : 32 "In spite of all this, they kept on SINNING; in spite of his wonders, they did not believe."

They got to the Red Sea and saw the Egyptians coming and they complained that God had delivered them just to die in the desert. God opened the sea and led them across but a few days later they grumbled again that he had saved them just so they go die of thirst. God sweetened the water at Marah. A few days later they grumbled that he had given them water just so they could starve to death. They refused to believe in a loving God. Is knowing we have a loving God the gospel or that Jesus had to appease a wrathful Father through sacrifice?

A NATION OF PRIESTS

MALACHI 2 : 1&2 "And now this admonition is for you, O priests. If you do not listen, and if you do not set your heart to HONOR MY NAME (name in Hebrew means one's character)
MALACHI 2 : 7 "For the lips of a priest ought to preserve knowledge, and from his mouth men should seek instruction."

Paul says basically the same as Peter in the following verse.

EPHESIANS 3 : 10 "His intent was that now, through the church (called out ones), the manifold wisdom of God (how he runs the universe) should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms (the ones Lucifer was bringing into doubt as told in REV 12:7), according to his eternal purpose (was always the plan and will be into eternity) which he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Rev 12:7 says there was war in heaven. The word war is translated from a Greek word meaning verbal conflict of accusations and claims. As Jesus said Lucifer was a liar. So basically Lucifer was lying about God's character. The war is being fought by Michael and his angels. Angel is the Greek word angelos and means messenger. Michael means one who is like God. Michael was the archangel. arch means chief. He was the chief messenger who is like God. God's messengers were the prophets. They brought the message of God's character through their writings in Scripture.

2 PETER 1 : 21 "For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."

So Jesus and the prophets are trying to clear God's name that has been sullied by Lucifer. If you read the parable of the tenants, Jesus is relating how the prophets tried to help the Jews fulfill their covenant and that finally Jesus would come and do it for them.

HEBREWS 1 : 1&2 "In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by hisSon."

COLOSSIANS 1 : 19&20 "For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by MAKING PEACE through his blood, shed on the cross."

Mankind has been created to counter Lucifer's accusations against God and claims about himself. Lucifer not only said God wasn't loving because he forced his created beings to do his will he said he had a better way to run the universe. As it says in ZECHARIAH 4:6 God does nothing by might nor power. He proves everything by a demonstration of the truth. God is using mankind to show the faultiness of having freewill and the law of greed. God had most of live under freewill so it could be proven wrong but also had a few that would keep the true knowledge of his character alive. He did this because this planet is going to blow up and he is coming to rescue us. If mankind would have had only the picture of gods as shown by the pagan world all would have run at the second coming.

ROMANS 9 : 21 "Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes (prophets) and some for common use?'

But, after the demonstration showing freewill and the law of greed to be untenable God is going to put his Spirit in all of us. How we run the new earth and how we interact with our children and siblings will give the universe a look at what their Creator is like.

ROMANS 11 : 16 "If the part of the dough offered as FIRSTFRUITS (first to produce fruit for good wine) is holy, the whole batch is holy (we were all created to reveal God's character).

The Jews were compared to a vineyard that didn't produce good fruit. Psalm 80 said they were a grapevine taken from Egypt but burned in the fire. Jesus said in John 15:1 that he was the true vine. He would show the true character of God. He told the disciples to do as I have done. That is exactly what Peter and Paul said they were doing.

COLOSSIANS 1 : 24 "Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions, for the sake of the church."

If Jesus was paying a penalty nothing would be lacking. But as long as this earth exists Satan will be distorting the character of God.

John the Baptist told the Pharisees to bear fruit in keeping with repentance. Repent means to turn and have a change of mind. They were worshiping the legalistic god shown them at Mount Sinai. Jesus was the exact opposite of that God. I think I already showed you that when Jesus returns the Spirit (living water) is going out from Mount Zion. It is the fall rains in the Jewish feasts. The spring rains was Pentecost. The fall rains comes right before the harvest. If you go to REVELATION 14 you'll see there are two harvests. One is taken into the city and the other remains outside the city in the winepress of God's wrath. God's wrath is simply giving you up to what you desire.

REVELATION 14 : 9&10 "If anyone worships the beast (organized religion teaching a god to be fearful of).................he too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath."

If you want to believe in the wine of Babylon, God allows you. God's physical appearance is one of a devouring fire. We are warned not to fear his glory as the Jews did. If you do this is what you will do.

ISAIAH 2 : 19 "Men will flee to caves in the rocks and to holes in the ground from dread of the Lord and the splendor of his majesty (his glory which looked like a devouring fire to the Jews), when he rises to shake the earth."

Shalom Ron, pretty lengthy post….hopefully I can summarize it. It appears you believe mankind was created so that they could become a people who loves, praises, obeys, acknowledges, and honors Elohim, thus countering Lucifer’s claims about himself and accusations against Elohim. And after demonstrating His truth, showing freewill and greed to be “untenable,” Elohim will put his Spirit in all of us. How did I do?

Obviously, Elohim desires that all come to a knowledge of the Truth and be saved, but some will not submit and come to the knowledge of the Truth, as they will follow their father, who was a liar and murderer from the beginning. It states that in the beginning, Elohim created the heavens and the earth, and the earth BECAME void and without form. Most think Lucifer became a murdered and liar with the account in the garden, but that was not the beginning, as the beginning was many, many years prior to the beginning of this age where Elohim “renewed” the face of the earth some 6000 years ago. The “murder” that took place from the “beginning” was the “murder” of the Elohim’s Unity, where 1/3 of the angels were in rebellion to that Unity, and that Unity was breached. Elohim’s PLAN for mankind is for the Unity of the Elohim to be restored to its former state, and even become MORE Glorious. What Satan rebelled against was the Plan of INCREASING the Elohim, allowing others to become LIKE Them, so in effect, Satan was the FIRST abortionist/murderer in rebelling against the Plan. These things are not easily understood, but never the less, they are true. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[Ken Brown]

Ken
Water I guess would be the Spirit since it says he is the living water. Here is another study using sheep for God's people.

MATTHEW 25 : 31&32 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats."

Okay, if God does not use power or might how does he separate them? Also if he does nothing that goes against the law of love how can he separate some to be lost?

Jesus tells us.

JOHN 10 : 14 "I know my sheep and my sheep know me."
JOHN 10 : 3 "The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice."

Who is the watchman and what would the gate be?

HOSEA 9 : 8 "The prophet, along with God (Jesus-Michael), is the watchman over the people of my God."

The prophets testified to the character of God in Scripture and Jesus came and showed his character in the flesh(the word made flesh). The gate would be ours minds being opened to the true character of God.

The sheep will come into the city because they know God's character (one of total love) while the goats will run in the opposite direction away from the city. They run because God is a wall of fire around the city. By not knowing God's character they will think the fire is something to be feared as the Jews did at Mount Sinai.

EXODUS 24 : 17 "To the Israelites the glory of the Lord looked like a consuming fire.
PSALM 53 : 4&5 "Will evildoers never learn...............There they were, filled with dread, where there was nothing to dread."

According to the rest of you, evildoers do have something to dread from God.

ISAIAH 43 : 2 "When you walk through the fire, you will not be burned."

You all keep saying I misquote the Bible, but I'm the only one presenting a God of unconditional love as the apostles described Christ, when they used the Greek word agape to describe him.

Ron

Shalom Ron, I don't think you really "misquote" the Bible, I just think you read INTO some of the verses some things that just are not there, or should really have a different meaning. Take for instance water and wine. You feel water is the Spirit, and wine is the character of Elohim. My belief is similar to yours, but I think yours could be improved upon. When Yeshua turned water INTO wine (His FIRST miracle), He was not turning the Spirit into Elohim's character. A better way to view it is along these lines.

When Moshe spoke about his Torah, he said it was as gentle rain upon the tender grass (Deuteronomy 32:1-2). Yahweh also gave reference to His Word in comparing it to rain (water) here (Amos 8:11-13), as water is compared to the Word of Yahweh. Please consider that Elohim created us with a physical body that would die in relatively short order without water, and that is a picture of how the Word of Elohim is LIFE to those who drink it in and obey it (Deuteronomy 32:46-47), and death comes from not drinking in His Word and obeying it (Deuteronomy 30:14-30). Paul states we are washed of water BY THE WORD (Ephesians 5:26), so I think a better explanation of what water symbolizes is the Word/Words of Elohim, which if one does them, he will LIVE by them (Romans 10:5, Romans 2:13). Now apply this to what Yeshua did. He took the Word of Elohim and changed it or turned it into something Spiritual. The LITERAL commands were "opened" to where we can NOW see the Spiritual side of Elohim's Word, and that is truly something that gladdens/warms our hearts (Psalms 104:15, Luke 24:32). So I see that "water" is the literal WORD of Elohim, and WINE is the Spiritual Fulfillment of that WORD. Wine is like ADDING the Spirit to the Water and having LIFE (John 6:63), and this is a miracle that Yeshua has done. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew

 

[Ron Hackel]

Ken
That is as good a summary as any.

ZEPHANIAH 3 : 8&9 "Therefore wait for me, declares the Lord, 'for the day I will STAND UP to testify. I have decided to assemble the nations, to gather the kingdoms and to pour out on them-all my fierce anger. The whole world will be consumed by the fire of my jealous anger. THEN will I purify the lips of the peoples, that ALL of them may call on the name of the Lord."

God's wrath is allowing you freewill, to do as you wish. How does that relate to your ideas? How does Isaiah 8:20 relate to what you believe?

Just about every verse describing the second coming has the Lord going from a sitting position to that of standing. ISAIAH 2:19, DANIEL 12:1, PSALM 12:5, PSALM 102:13, ISAIAH 33:10, PSALM 76:8&9, MICAH 5:4, ISAIAH 26:20&21, 28:21, 76:8.

PSALM 110 : 1 "The Lord said to my Lord: 'Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."

1 CORINTHIANS 15 : 25&26 "For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death."

Death is God's enemy. God is the Creator not the destroyer as John called Lucifer in Revelation 9:11. There is an explanation for why Ananias and Sapphira died, but it is not the character of our God to kill them. No more than God caused the flood which just about everyone blames on God. He allowed it to happen after we initiated the situation, but he didn't start it. Scripture said that God was grieved that he created us. Satan has put in mankind's mind that he was mad. He was SAD because he created us to demonstrate the fallacy of Lucifer's claims. And their minds were evil continually. If you want a good definition of that go to 2 TIMOTHY 3:1-5. We have reached the same point as the preflood humans had where the law of greed has come to a completion. They were able to do it much faster the first time because they had a perfect earth and their greatest minds lived for a thousand years. They were able to screw up the planet much faster than we were.

PSALM 75 : 2&3 "You say, 'I choose the appointed time; it is I who judge uprightly. When the earth and all its people quake, it is I who hold its pillars firm."

God held the earth together for 120 years allowing Noah to build an ark and convince any that would listen that the word was going to be deluged by water and they needed to come into the ark. God is again holding back destruction as he did at that time. This time you must come into the city to be saved.

REVELATION 7:1-3 "After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth HOLDING BACK the four winds....................Do not harm...........until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of God" That seal is the name of God as shown in Revelation 14. Satan found it important enough to raise up a church that preaches that the seal is the Sabbath truth.

God's not causing the end he's holding it back until a group knows his true character. If God was doing it there would be no need to hold it back because God would simply do it when he wanted and no one could hold back something God wanted.

What is your belief about the 1000 years talked about in Revelation? To me it is the rest that Paul is talking about in Hebrews 4. There must be a 1000 year rest to fulfill Scripture. God said the land must be rested every seventh year and it has never been done. The clock started the year Cain farmed on the Sabbath year. That is why his sacrifice was not acceptable. God wanted NO SACRIFICES, but allowed them, until Jesus would appear, as a way for humans to think they were okay with God. Cain's farming and bringing that sacrifice though was totally unacceptable, because God was showing that he could be trusted by having the Sabbath year. If the Jews would have kept the Sabbath years every nation would have been drawn to them to find out about a god that would allow them to not farm every seventh year and still have an abundance. In Zephaniah 3:9 God says he is going to cleanse the lips of ALL. In Isaiah 6, Isaiah went from being afraid of God to enthusiastically volunteering to help God because of a coal brought from the altar. The disciples in the upper room is the same story. In Zechariah you have 1/3 of mankind being given insight into the character of God. It is talking about the "living water" going out from Mount Zion just before the end. As Jesus said the gospel would go to all nations and then the end will come. John related to the two groups being given the gospel in Revelation 14 but only 1/3 accepted it.

REVELATION 20:9 "But fire came down from heaven and devoured them."

Same fire as with Isaiah and the disciples or is God going to toast billions of his children? Remember death is an enemy and was defeated when Jesus arose. If you go a few more verses in Revelation it shows the Great white throne judgment (second coming) and what was thrown into the lake of fire (the earth's final day as it is about to explode)? Death is done away with. If you read Revelation 15:1 God's wrath is completed. He no longer has to let us go because Satan has been proven to be a terrible leader (his system has resulted in the earth blowing up as it did at the time of the flood).

 

[Ron Hackel]

Ken
I went to several Heb-Eng Bible interliners. I see now where you get your thinking from. You're not going to be talked out of it, but the first verse most see as a summary of what is about to take place like most newspaper headlines. You instead, read it as a timeline.

 

[Ron Hackel]

Ken
Just came back from taking the dog for a walk and these thoughts came to me about what you've said. You said: "some will not submit" and thus you think they must be destroyed. How does that square with God saying he does nothing by might nor power? How does it fit with God saying he does nothing against the law of love? What about the following Scripture?

JEREMIAH 3 : 1 "If a man divorces his wife and she leaves him and marries another man, should he return to her again?
JEREMIAH 3 : 14 "Return, faithless people, declares the Lord, 'for I am your husband. I will choose you-one from a town and two from a clan-and bring you to Zion."
ISAIAH 65 : 1 "I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me"


EZEKIEL 20 : 39 "Go serve your idols, every one of you! But afterward you will surely listen to me and no longer profane my holy name"
EZEKIEL 20 : 40 "the ENTIRE house of Israel will serve me, and there I will accept them."

PSALM 147 : 11 "The Lord delights in those who fear him, who put their hope in his UNFAILING LOVE."

PSALM 145 : 8&9 "The lord is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and rich in love. The Lord is good to ALL; he has compassion on all he has made. ALL YOU HAVE MADE WILL PRAISE YOU, O Lord."

Does God force them in your scenario?

JUDE 1 : 7 "In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns......They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire."
EZEKIEL 16 : 53 "Yet I will restore the fortunes of Sodom"

JEREMIAH 49 : 37 "I will shatter Elam before her foes.............I will bring disaster upon them"
JEREMIAH 49 : 39 "Yet I will restore the fortunes of Elam in days to come."

JEREMIAH 51 : 9 "We would have healed Babylon, but she cannot be healed."
PSALM 87 : 4 "I will record Rahab and Babylon among those who acknowledge me."

AMOS 1 : 13 "For three sins of Ammon, even four, I will not turn back my wrath."
JEREMIAH 49 : 6 "Yet afterwards, I will restore the fortunes of the Ammonites."

ISAIAH 25 : 10 "The hand of the Lord will rest on this mountain; but Moab will be trampled under him as straw will be trampled down in the manure."
JEREMIAH 48 : 47 "Yet I will restore the fortunes of Moab in days to come."

You said some would not submit.

JEREMIAH 30 : 12&13 "Your wound is incurable, your injury beyond healing. There is no one to plead your cause, no remedy for your sore, no healing for you."

Could you be right?

JEREMIAH 30 : 17 "But I will restore you to health."

Again on Ananias and Sapphira. If God killed them, how does that square with what he has revealed about himself?

DEUTERONOMY 10 : 17, that says he shows no partiality and Romans 2:11 "For God shows no favoritism".

How many people have made promises to God when they had no control over a situation (a plane in heavy turbulence or in a foxhole) and forgot their words when the situation was no longer there. I'm sure half the country should be face down on the ground if God actually killed those who went back on their promises. Just a thought.

 

[Ken Brown]

Shalom Ron, you might be surprised as to how close we are in believing that Elohim will save the vast majority of mankind (you say ALL, and I say almost all). You need to think along the lines of a farmer. When a farmer plants his crops, he has an initial harvest (The Firstfruits), who Messiah Yeshua corresponds too, and then subsequent harvests. With Messiah, He was waved (presented BEFORE Elohim as the FIRST who was resurrected from the dead) being The FirstFruit Sheaf (Leviticus 23:10-11, Deuteronomy 26:5-10, John 20:17, 1 Corinthians 15:20), and at His return, Two Loaves (who are also made as Firstfruits-Leviticus 23:17, 1 Corinthians 15:22-24, James 1:18, Revelation 14:4) are waved (presented before Elohim as having been resurrected from the dead). Those who are part of this resurrection of the FirstFruits, will be blessed, and not affected by the Second Death, as the rest of mankind can be (Revelation 20:5-6). You see Ron, Elohim allows ALL to enter into the first death, but only those who come up in the Great Harvest (after the 1000 years/Sabbath has ended) will have an opportunity for the Second Death. That Second Death is not reversible, it is FINAL, complete and utter destruction, and most will avoid it on the 8th Great Day, as most will desire LIFE instead of DEATH.

You should consider the parable of harvesting, and how “weeds/tares” are allowed to grow and flourish with the good crops, but in the end, the “weeds/tares” are gathered and BURNED (Matthew 13:29-30, Matthew 13:39-43). These “weeds/tares” did not have their names WRITTEN in the Book of Life, or if they did, it was removed (Exodus 32:32-33, Psalms 69:27-28, Revelation 3:5, Revelation 13:8), but those who overcome and remain faithful, will have their names written in Heaven, in the Book of Life (Daniel 12:1-2, Luke 10:20, Philippians 4:3, Revelation 21:27). So Ron, would you have a Book of Life, and allow those who PROVE themselves to be TRANSGRESSORS...by building again that which was destroyed (a sinner was destroyed-Galatians 2:17-18), would you allow their name to remain written in your Book of Life (Deuteronomy 29:20, Psalms 9:5)? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[Ron Hackel]

Ken
Both of these firstfruits, the one at his first coming and the ones at the second coming are brought to Mount Zion. There they are glorified and sent out for the harvest. They go out to preach the gospel to all those who are to be risen in the age to come.

Question: Do you have a problem with my assertion that there is a short period of time after this age (probably 7-10 days) and before the start of the 1000 year Sabbath rest? If you do diagram the following events in a timeline for me.

LUKE 18 : 30 "will fail to receive many times as much in this age and, IN THE AGE TO COME, ETERNAL LIFE."
MATTHEW 13 : 48&49 "collected fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. This is how it will be at the END OF THE AGE."

There are similar verses that say you can't blaspheme the Spirit in this age or the age to come. If Jesus said the gospel would go to all nations (people) and then the end will come, doesn't there have to be a short period of time when all are raised from their graves to hear the gospel? And, if some reject it and run from going into the city would they not suffer a second death in the lake of fire? The ones written in the book of life knew God's character. You have that characteristic each time fire was brought from heaven (Not of course that brought by the Mount Sinai god which was a false picture of God).

Tell me about the citizens of Capernaum. Jesus said if they ate his flesh and drank his blood they would be raised on the last day. The people were disgusted by this thought and rejected Jesus. He of course meant not to be cannibals, but to know him as well as possible. Since they rejected him they didn't get to know him and thus were stuck with the picture of a god shown the Jews at Mount Sinai. Since they don't know his true character of love, they will run from the legalistic tyrant of a god shown at Mount Sinai.

MATTHEW 11 : 23 "And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the skies? No, you will go down to Hades."

Since they've been dead for almost 2000 years they must have been risen from their graves, just to return (a second death).

PSALM 145 : 10 "all you have made will praise you, O Lord."
ISAIAH 45:23&24, says that ALL will exult him

The picture in Zechariah 13:8&9 have a large group changed by fire into knowing his character. The same chapters have living water going out from Mount Zion at Christ's return.

After the 1000 years we have fire coming down from heaven(Revelation 20:9). In your mind what is God's character? Is the fire going to destroy billions like the Mount Sinai god would or do you have a loving God in your mind that will take away the lies that Satan has planted over the centuries?

IN Zephaniah 3:9, God says after the destruction of the earth he will purify the lips of ALL people. Do you believe him?

God's justice is clearly spelled out in Zechariah 7:9, why do you insist on something different?

In Revelation 20:11-14, we have a picture of the second coming. It says that death is done away with at that time. That is before the 1000 year rest, before the creation of the new earth. In Revelation 15:1, the seventh plague-the earth splitting apart, it says God's wrath is completed. Have you ever studied the definition of agape love? UNCONDITIONAL! There are no conditions to be met with God. He is total love.

As soon as they know God's character their name is placed in the book of life. You asked if I'd let their name remain after they proved themselves to be transgressors. POST 566 has example after example of God taking people back. And I've already showed in this post that ALL are going to praise God at some time, sooner or later. Jesus gave you the parable of the workers in the vineyard coming the last hour.

 

[Ken Brown]

Ken
Both of these firstfruits, the one at his first coming and the ones at the second coming are brought to Mount Zion. There they are glorified and sent out for the harvest. They go out to preach the gospel to all those who are to be risen in the age to come.

Question: Do you have a problem with my assertion that there is a short period of time after this age (probably 7-10 days) and before the start of the 1000 year Sabbath rest? If you do diagram the following events in a timeline for me.

LUKE 18 : 30 "will fail to receive many times as much in this age and, IN THE AGE TO COME, ETERNAL LIFE."
MATTHEW 13 : 48&49 "collected fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. This is how it will be at the END OF THE AGE."

There are similar verses that say you can't blaspheme the Spirit in this age or the age to come. If Jesus said the gospel would go to all nations (people) and then the end will come, doesn't there have to be a short period of time when all are raised from their graves to hear the gospel? And, if some reject it and run from going into the city would they not suffer a second death in the lake of fire? The ones written in the book of life knew God's character. You have that characteristic each time fire was brought from heaven (Not of course that brought by the Mount Sinai god which was a false picture of God).

Tell me about the citizens of Capernaum. Jesus said if they ate his flesh and drank his blood they would be raised on the last day. The people were disgusted by this thought and rejected Jesus. He of course meant not to be cannibals, but to know him as well as possible. Since they rejected him they didn't get to know him and thus were stuck with the picture of a god shown the Jews at Mount Sinai. Since they don't know his true character of love, they will run from the legalistic tyrant of a god shown at Mount Sinai.

MATTHEW 11 : 23 "And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the skies? No, you will go down to Hades."

Since they've been dead for almost 2000 years they must have been risen from their graves, just to return (a second death).

PSALM 145 : 10 "all you have made will praise you, O Lord."
ISAIAH 45:23&24, says that ALL will exult him

The picture in Zechariah 13:8&9 have a large group changed by fire into knowing his character. The same chapters have living water going out from Mount Zion at Christ's return.

After the 1000 years we have fire coming down from heaven(Revelation 20:9). In your mind what is God's character? Is the fire going to destroy billions like the Mount Sinai god would or do you have a loving God in your mind that will take away the lies that Satan has planted over the centuries?

IN Zephaniah 3:9, God says after the destruction of the earth he will purify the lips of ALL people. Do you believe him?

God's justice is clearly spelled out in Zechariah 7:9, why do you insist on something different?

In Revelation 20:11-14, we have a picture of the second coming. It says that death is done away with at that time. That is before the 1000 year rest, before the creation of the new earth. In Revelation 15:1, the seventh plague-the earth splitting apart, it says God's wrath is completed. Have you ever studied the definition of agape love? UNCONDITIONAL! There are no conditions to be met with God. He is total love.

As soon as they know God's character their name is placed in the book of life. You asked if I'd let their name remain after they proved themselves to be transgressors. POST 566 has example after example of God taking people back. And I've already showed in this post that ALL are going to praise God at some time, sooner or later. Jesus gave you the parable of the workers in the vineyard coming the last hour.

Shalom Ron, in your opinion, what will cause ALL people to obey, and never sin? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[Ron Hackel]

Ken
This whole 6000 years have been a demonstration proving Lucifer's claims false. Lucifer claimed that God really didn't love his created beings because they had to do his will. Lucifer also had a better plan to run the universe-free enterprise (the law of greed).

God doesn't demand that you believe him, he proves his way.

We are living under the law of greed and have freewill. What kind of world do we have? Has God proven his point?

Paul said that the carnal nature (freewill) and the spiritual could not co-exist. They were at war with each other. As long as we have freewill we will make decisions that will be best for us with usually little regard for anyone else. The spiritual nature is God's law of love. In his system all decisions are made for the good of all.

Can your mind fathom what decision will be best for yourself and every other person in the universe? Only an all knowing God can do this. We must all do God's will. Even if you'd want to do God's will you don't know what it is.

1 CORINTHIANS 2:11, only by having God's Spirit in us can we do God's will. ONLY BY HAVING FULL TRUST IN A LOVING GOD can he put his Spirit in us. God is total love he will not put his Spirit in someone that doesn't trust him. If you don't believe he is total love, you really don't trust him. You have to have perfect love for him

1 JOHN 4:18 "There is no fear in love(God is love). Perfect love(God is perfect love) drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love." In other words God punishes no one. In that way you can have total trust in his love and he can put his Spirit in you.

After this is all over, God is putting his Spirit in all of us (adopted sons)

1 JOHN 4:13 "We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us his Spirit."

.

 

[Ken Brown]

Ken
This whole 6000 years have been a demonstration proving Lucifer's claims false. Lucifer claimed that God really didn't love his created beings because they had to do his will. Lucifer also had a better plan to run the universe-free enterprise (the law of greed).

God doesn't demand that you believe him, he proves his way.

We are living under the law of greed and have freewill. What kind of world do we have? Has God proven his point?

Paul said that the carnal nature (freewill) and the spiritual could not co-exist. They were at war with each other. As long as we have freewill we will make decisions that will be best for us with usually little regard for anyone else. The spiritual nature is God's law of love. In his system all decisions are made for the good of all.

Can your mind fathom what decision will be best for yourself and every other person in the universe? Only an all knowing God can do this. We must all do God's will. Even if you'd want to do God's will you don't know what it is.

1 CORINTHIANS 2:11, only by having God's Spirit in us can we do God's will. ONLY BY HAVING FULL TRUST IN A LOVING GOD can he put his Spirit in us. God is total love he will not put his Spirit in someone that doesn't trust him. If you don't believe he is total love, you really don't trust him. You have to have perfect love for him

1 JOHN 4:18 "There is no fear in love(God is love). Perfect love(God is perfect love) drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love." In other words God punishes no one. In that way you can have total trust in his love and he can put his Spirit in you.

After this is all over, God is putting his Spirit in all of us (adopted sons)

1 JOHN 4:13 "We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us his Spirit."

.

Shalom Ron, here is your problem. You believe the "carnal nature" means "freewill," and it's just the exact opposite, those who are controlled by the flesh (their carnal nature) have no free will, but are SLAVES to disobedience (Romans 7:14). Slaves do not have "freewill," they may think they have, but the choice to be FREE from sin is not given to SLAVES of sin. Yeshua said IF you sin, you are a SLAVE of sin, and SLAVES are not free (John 8:34), but He said that IF you continue in His Word, you will know the Truth, and the Truth will make you free (John 8:31-32) (free from what??? is the question).

You basically call Yeshua a liar by claiming everyone is free (has freewill), when in reality, they have no freewill because they do not know the Truth. It is only by coming to a Knowledge of the Truth that one can FREELY choose to OBEY, otherwise, there is no choice or freewill, as those who are carnal, cannot and will not obey, it is impossible to do so (Romans 8:7-8). Elohim is in the process of educating His Children, to become LIKE Him, KNOWING Good and Evil, and then FREELY choosing the GOOD. Those who are carnal cannot choose the good, because they have no "freewill," UNLESS they start to HEAR Him, and then convert from the corruptible Old Man, who, according to the deceitful LUSTS of the FLESH, are in bondage (Ephesians 4:17-30) (2 Peter 2:18-22). The LIE that everyone has "freewill" can only be exposed by coming to a Knowledge of the Truth. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[Ron Hackel]

Ken
Free from what? Free from the lies Satan puts in people's minds. Jesus showed us the truth about what God was like.

JOHN:19:37, tells us that is why Jesus came.

Paul said you could either be a slave to Satan or God. By having freewill you ARE A SLAVE TO SATAN. We are no match for Satan. He was created perfect in wisdom. He is the greatest con artist ever created. Why do you think people have all the ridiculous religious beliefs they have? With freewill you have the choice to follow who you will. God can only tell you the truth. People love the lies. Freewill (carnal nature) is self centered. It really can be nothing else. If you were going to be crucified on a cross and had the power to stop the situation, you're telling me you wouldn't. As Jesus said not my will but your will be done.

(Elohim is in the process of educating his people) You make it sound like everyone born before this age was lost. You said God is educating us to know what is good and evil. What exactly is good or evil. Is ISIS good or evil? Is driving a car good or evil? Is eating animals good or evil? Was plowing up the great plains good or evil? It allowed thousands of families to start a life in what seemed to men a good situation. It turned out to be grief and misery. We don't know what is good or evil.

I'm sure I posted this before about when God had a prophet prophesy. When he had a prophet prophesy it came to pass. If God is total love does he want his children not to understand? Yet, in Isaiah 6:9&10 he had Isaiah prophesy that the Jews wouldn't understand anything. Remember on the road to Emmaus Jesus opened their minds to Scripture? Satan has twisted what Scripture actually is saying. Don't take offense, but that is why everyone thinks God is a killer. The Jews said that they could obey the Mount Sinai god and follow God's laws of love and he allowed them the opportunity. You can't do it with freewill. Our carnal nature goes against the law of love. And as the final part of Isaiah 6 says it will be all over when the earth is destroyed by Satan. The demonstration will be over.

 

[e.r.m.]

I came across this:

"Some Christians believe that they should keep old covenant observances such as the weekly and annual Sabbaths. A person is a "true Christian" only if he or she observes Sabbaths and certain other old covenant requirements. But the truth is that these old worship regulations are not required today, and it is legalistic to teach that people must obey those rules in order to be accounted worthy of salvation."

That is a popular argument for why Christians don't observe those Laws...

Why does that paragraph say the things that it says? First the Bible commanded us to keep 613 Commandments. Where is the prophecy in the "Old Testament" that says those Laws would someday be invalid or no longer required?

So, basically, Christians believe: For example: the Mr. Smith was born 30 B.C.E. He lived a good life before the birth of the Savior and observed those Laws with all his ability. Somewhere around 34 C.E. he no longer had to observe them (for whatever reason.

True? At what exact point in history did those Laws become invalid? What Bible verses in the "Old Testament" prove this?

This cannot be proven. In fact, the opposite is true since there are a dozen or more prophesies about the Law being and standing for ever.
[Zecharyah was written in 520 B.C.E.]
Zechariah 14:18-19 says that the heathen will be forced to observe and travel to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. This prophesy has never been fulfilled, nor has there ever been circumstances that even remotely resembled it.

Why would Yahweh force all people to observe a Feast that is no longer valid, and has no purpose? Why would Yahweh force people to be "legalistic?"

Also, I must point out that the prophecy is that Yahweh will force the heathen to keep the Feast. Does this mean that the Christians are keeping it already voluntarily? Or, does it mean that the Feast of Tabernacles will be a part of Hell?

[FYI I observe the Feast of Tabernacles Deut. 12:5-6]

Galatians 3:21-25 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. [22] But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe. [23] Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. [24] So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. [25] Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

 

[Ron Hackel]

e.r.m.
Paul said in Romans 3:10&11 that no one had been righteous. He said the definition of righteous was understanding God. Both the Jews and Gentiles sacrificed to appease their gods. Satan has gotten mankind to think of righteousness as our moral or immoral actions. In Galatians, Paul is saying no one will become righteous by obeying the law. What was required from the law? Every time you did something wrong you had to sacrifice an animal so that God would be okay with you again. Since the Jews wouldn't accept God as he was, a loving God (see Psalm 78) he gave them the god they would follow. But this picture of God can never make you understand what God is really like. Jesus came to show the true picture of God. The law kept them together until Jesus came and showed the true picture of God. You have to have faith in an all loving God.

HEBREWS 4:2 "For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those that heard did not combine it with faith."

Paul is referring to the Jews in the desert described in Psalm 78. They never thought God would do the next thing for them. The gospel is that we have a loving God that would do anything for us. Did you hear anything about a penalty being paid in the Psalm? In fact is there anywhere in the entire New Testament that says Jesus came to pay a penalty? If you say he came to pay a ransom, you are absolutely correct. Who do you pay a ransom to? You pay it to a kidnapper. Did the Father kidnap us and Jesus had to pay some legal penalty? Of course not! Lucifer made accusations against the Father and has kidnapped our minds into believing his lies.

JOHN 19:37 "In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth."
JOHN 8:32 "Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
1 JOHN 5:20 "We know also that the Son of God has come and given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true."
1 JOHN 3:8 "The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work."
COLOSSIANS 2:15 "and having DISARMED the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross." Satan's only weapon was the lie that God was not total love.

Now you've gotten direct testimony from John, Paul and Jesus and yet you'll believe the lie Satan has spread. As I've told Ken, as long as mankind has freewill they are no competition for Satan. He can make you believe a lie. He tried the same thing with Jesus in the desert, but Jesus had the Spirit and couldn't be fooled. All mankind had been fooled. That is why Jesus had to open the minds of the two on the road to Emmaus, because Satan has distorted what Scripture really says. I know this is going to sound like a cop out, but only if God overrides your freewill will you understand Scripture. And God cannot do this on any great scale until Lucifer's claims are proven wrong. Unfortunately one of Lucifer's claims was that we should have freewill. So this has to go until the earth is destroyed by us using Lucifer's law of greed. God said he would open the minds of a few as he did at Pentecost right before the end, so the time should be close.

 

[Ken Brown]

Ken
Free from what? Free from the lies Satan puts in people's minds. Jesus showed us the truth about what God was like. No Ron, the freedom is from the slavery to sin. Romans 8:20 states it was Elohim who subjected mankind (the creation) to moral depravity. The Greek word Paul used (G3153), that many of the translations render as "vanity," has the following meaning:

G3153 ματαιότης (mataiotēs)
1.) what is devoid of truth and appropriateness
2.) perverseness, depravity
3.) frailty, want of vigour

This "perverseness," "depravity," being "devoid of truth" is what ELOHIM subjected the creation to, not Satan. You need to erase from your mind the thought that Satan is in charge, and that Satan subjected the creation to this perverseness, depravity, and lack of truth. If what you think is correct (that Satan gave mankind "freewill"), then why did Paul say that the CREATION was not WILLINGLY subjected to this perverseness, depravity, and lack of truth, BUT by the WILL of Him who hath subjected:


Rom 8:20 For the creation was made subject to (G3153-perverseness, depravity, devoid of truth), not willingly, but by reason of Him who hath subjected [the same] in hope,

Please Ron, re-consider your position.

JOHN:19:37, tells us that is why Jesus came. Yes, to TEACH us what our perverseness, depravity, and lack of truth caused...His PIERCING by ALL of us, and this Knowledge of the Truth should TURN us from that perverseness, depravity, and lack of truth. This KNOWLEDGE is what causes you to become FREE, to where you no longer keep PIERCING Him, by being a Slave of Sin.

Paul said you could either be a slave to Satan or God. By having freewill you ARE A SLAVE TO SATAN. We are no match for Satan. He was created perfect in wisdom. He is the greatest con artist ever created. Why do you think people have all the ridiculous religious beliefs they have? With freewill you have the choice to follow who you will. God can only tell you the truth. People love the lies. Freewill (carnal nature) is self centered. It really can be nothing else. If you were going to be crucified on a cross and had the power to stop the situation, you're telling me you wouldn't. As Jesus said not my will but your will be done. Again Ron, no one had "freewill," but ALL have acted in ignorance in placing Yeshua up on the Cross, to pierce Him and murder Him (Acts of The Apostles 3:17, 1 Timothy 1:13) by being perverse, depraved, and lacking truth. This was the condition Elohim consigned ALL under (Romans 11:32), by NOT giving us "freewill," but rather "disobedience." When you are a Slave of Sin, you are not FREE...no "freewill" in the Slavery to Sin.

(Elohim is in the process of educating his people) You make it sound like everyone born before this age was lost. You said God is educating us to know what is good and evil. What exactly is good or evil. Is ISIS good or evil? Is driving a car good or evil? Is eating animals good or evil? Was plowing up the great plains good or evil? It allowed thousands of families to start a life in what seemed to men a good situation. It turned out to be grief and misery. We don't know what is good or evil. Ron, that is because you have not yet come to a Knowledge of the Truth. When you confess and believe that YOU, with the help of wicked men, acted in ignorance by nailing Yeshua up on the Cross, to a place that He OUGHT not to have been made to Stand (Mark 13:14), THEN, you shall BEGIN to be FREE FROM your iniquities (Acts of the Apostles 3:26), as you FLEE to the MOUNTAINS of Righteousness (Psalms 36:6).

I'm sure I posted this before about when God had a prophet prophesy. When he had a prophet prophesy it came to pass. If God is total love does he want his children not to understand? Yet, in Isaiah 6:9&10 he had Isaiah prophesy that the Jews wouldn't understand anything. Remember on the road to Emmaus Jesus opened their minds to Scripture? Ron, what SCRIPTURE did He OPEN their minds to UNDERSTAND? It was WRITTEN by Moses, and it is The Foundation of The Torah...Yeshau's suffering, death, burial, and third day resurrection that is "veiled" or "hidden" therein. Satan has twisted what Scripture actually is saying. Don't take offense, but that is why everyone thinks God is a killer. The Jews said that they could obey the Mount Sinai god and follow God's laws of love and he allowed them the opportunity. You can't do it with freewill. Our carnal nature goes against the law of love. And as the final part of Isaiah 6 says it will be all over when the earth is destroyed by Satan. The demonstration will be over.

Shalom Ron, please consider what I have written above. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[Ron Hackel]

Ken
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. You reject what I say sin is and I reject what you think sin is. The depravity that I believe exists is the false picture of God given by mankind that he is not unconditional love. Your god has conditions that must be met. My God is unconditional love-agape love. Hope to meet you in person after this is all over.

Ron

 

[Ken Brown]

Ken
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. You reject what I say sin is and I reject what you think sin is. The depravity that I believe exists is the false picture of God given by mankind that he is not unconditional love. Your god has conditions that must be met. My God is unconditional love-agape love. Hope to meet you in person after this is all over.

Ron

Shalom Ron, yes we will, but for one of our sakes, we should continue discussing what the Scriptures say SIN is (1 John 3:4), and how one is Righteous (Romans 2:13). Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[Ron Hackel]

Ken
I'm glad you feel you have a need to continue to discuss Scripture for your own sake.

 

[e.r.m.]

e.r.m.
Paul said in Romans 3:10&11 that no one had been righteous. He said the definition of righteous was understanding God. Both the Jews and Gentiles sacrificed to appease their gods. Satan has gotten mankind to think of righteousness as our moral or immoral actions. In Galatians, Paul is saying no one will become righteous by obeying the law. What was required from the law? Every time you did something wrong you had to sacrifice an animal so that God would be okay with you again. Since the Jews wouldn't accept God as he was, a loving God (see Psalm 78) he gave them the god they would follow. But this picture of God can never make you understand what God is really like. Jesus came to show the true picture of God. The law kept them together until Jesus came and showed the true picture of God. You have to have faith in an all loving God.

HEBREWS 4:2 "For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those that heard did not combine it with faith."

Paul is referring to the Jews in the desert described in Psalm 78. They never thought God would do the next thing for them. The gospel is that we have a loving God that would do anything for us. Did you hear anything about a penalty being paid in the Psalm? In fact is there anywhere in the entire New Testament that says Jesus came to pay a penalty? If you say he came to pay a ransom, you are absolutely correct. Who do you pay a ransom to? You pay it to a kidnapper. Did the Father kidnap us and Jesus had to pay some legal penalty? Of course not! Lucifer made accusations against the Father and has kidnapped our minds into believing his lies.

JOHN 19:37 "In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth."
JOHN 8:32 "Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
1 JOHN 5:20 "We know also that the Son of God has come and given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true."
1 JOHN 3:8 "The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work."
COLOSSIANS 2:15 "and having DISARMED the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross." Satan's only weapon was the lie that God was not total love.

Now you've gotten direct testimony from John, Paul and Jesus and yet you'll believe the lie Satan has spread. As I've told Ken, as long as mankind has freewill they are no competition for Satan. He can make you believe a lie. He tried the same thing with Jesus in the desert, but Jesus had the Spirit and couldn't be fooled. All mankind had been fooled. That is why Jesus had to open the minds of the two on the road to Emmaus, because Satan has distorted what Scripture really says. I know this is going to sound like a cop out, but only if God overrides your freewill will you understand Scripture. And God cannot do this on any great scale until Lucifer's claims are proven wrong. Unfortunately one of Lucifer's claims was that we should have freewill. So this has to go until the earth is destroyed by us using Lucifer's law of greed. God said he would open the minds of a few as he did at Pentecost right before the end, so the time should be close.

I don't get your point.

 

[Ken Brown]

Ken
I'm glad you feel you have a need to continue to discuss Scripture for your own sake.

Shalom Ron, thank you, we all have needs, and I really need for you to help me understand what John meant when he said, "for sin is the transgression of the Law" (1 John 3:4), and what Paul meant when he said, "For it is not the hearers of the Law who are Righteous before Elohim, but rather it will be the doers of the Law who will be declared Righteous." (Romans 2:13) Thank you again for your help, and Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.