The masked truth....

[PureX]

It's a meaningless distinction as you're still holding everyone accountable by default.

Everyone IS accountable.

You judging everyone to be the same. Individual circumstances, contributions, actions, and such mean nothing. That's not a just or fair way of assigning blame or guilt.

Everyone is hiding from their own complicity by focusing on themselves as being less culpable than others. That's a big part of the problem. Which is why I am not going down the rabbit-hole of relative degrees of culpability.

WE ARE ALL TO BLAME for this mess, because we have accepted greed, ignorance, and selfishness as a way of life. We see ourselves as individuals competing with everyone else for everything we need to live, and so that's exactly what we have become. And then we blame everyone else for making us think and behave this way. So that nothing can ever change.

 

[Quetzal]

It isn't about me, specifically, either, but this seems to be everyone's obsession, now.

I understand, for what it is worth I am not obsessed with you (you aren't my type ). I can sense that this topic (our culture and its shortcomings) is something you are passionate about. I sense your heart is in the right place, I just caution you that the road of resentment is not a fun one. I have been there myself. Have a good week!

 

[Revoltingest]

Does that really matter? Isn't everyone blaming everyone else a big part of the problem?

Doesn't matter at all.
I was just curious because your views are
unusual, & I don't understand them well.

 

[BSM1]

Do you question health warnings about cigarette smoking because some life-long non-smokers get lung cancer and some heavy smokers don't?

You're just dodging the question. Besides, there are people who live all their lives in smoking homes and never get a hint of lung problems. Why is that?

 

[Revoltingest]

You're just dodging the question. Besides, there are people who live all their lives in smoking homes and never get a hint of lung problems. Why is that?

Cancer is probabilistic....like dying from drunk driving.
But that's only one smoking related malady.
There are also....
26 Health Effects of Smoking on Your Body

 

[PureX]

Doesn't matter at all.
I was just curious because your views are
unusual, & I don't understand them well.

I am saddened and frustrated because it is, or should be, completely obvious to anyone capable of rational thought that we humans will all fare far better by cooperating with each other, and acting in our collective best interest, than we ever will by competing with each other for all the same basic needs and living in a constant state of threat. Yet for some reason, we just cannot seem to get this idea of the value of cooperation into our heads. And so instead, we have turned our society into an ongoing war of selfishness, where everyone has to struggle and compete against everyone else to get what they need to live, and to keep hold of it.

This drives us to horde and pile up resources far beyond what we currently need to survive and thrive because we are always afraid that someone else will come take them away from us, or deny us access to them in the future. It's a culture that is driven by fear and greed and mutual animosity, and in turn then drives and justifies our fear and greed and mutual animosity. To the point where it becomes insanely self-destructive, and yet we just can't seem to stop the slide into that abyss. Mostly because we keep trying to pretend to ourselves that we're not responsible for it - everyone else is.

 

[Revoltingest]

I am saddened and frustrated because it is, or should be, completely obvious to anyone capable f rational thought that we humans will all fare far better by cooperating with each other, and acting by in our collective best interest, than we ever will by competing with each other for all the same basic needs and living in a constant state of threat. Yet for some reason, we just cannot seem to get this idea of the value of cooperation into our heads. And so instead, we have turned our society into an ongoing war of selfishness, where everyone has to struggle and compete against everyone else to get what they need to live, and to keep hold of it.

This drives us to horde and pile up resources far beyond what we currently need to survive and thrive, because we are always afraid that someone else will take them away from us, or deny us access to them in the future. It's a culture that is driven by fear and greed and animosity, and in turn then drives and justifies our fear and greed and animosity. To the point where it becomes insanely self-destructive, and yet we just can't seem to stop the slide into that abyss. Mostly because we keep trying to pretend to ourselves that we're not responsible for it - everyone else is.

I have lower expectations for the diversity of humans.
They were once higher. I overcame that error.
Now I'm seldom disappointed by humanity.

 

[PureX]

I have lower expectations for the diversity of humans.
They were once higher. I overcame that error.
Now I'm seldom disappointed by humanity.

I understand. But you are also now part of the problem. When we become selfish in the face of the fear and selfishness of others, we become the problem. When we try to hide from and deny our complicity, we also enable and become the problem.

 

[Quetzal]

But you are also now part of the problem.

See, this is my issue. If we take your perspective as fact, we are all part of the problem with no hope of redemption. So why bother? Please note, I am not suggesting that we all stop trying, but this where I am confused with your perspective. What should we do now?

 

[Revoltingest]

I understand. But you are also now part of the problem. When we become selfish in the face of the fear and selfishness of others, we become the problem. When we try to hide from and deny our complicity, we also enable and become the problem.

If everyone is the problem, then it should be called "normal".
I reserve the word "problem" for things which aren't universal & inherent.

 

[BSM1]

Cancer is probabilistic....like dying from drunk driving.
But that's only one smoking related malady.
There are also....
26 Health Effects of Smoking on Your Body

This is like worrying about mothers smoking while pregnant. My mother (as well as many mothers in the day) smoked while she was pregnant and I turned out alri....wait, I see your point.

 

[Revoltingest]

This is like worrying about mothers smoking while pregnant. My mother (as well as many mothers in the day) smoked while she was pregnant and I turned out alri....wait, I see your point.

Mine smoked too.
You & I are making a case to some of our friends here
on RF that smoking while pregnant is a heinous crime.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

WE ARE ALL TO BLAME for this mess, because we have accepted greed, ignorance, and selfishness as a way of life.

I have accepted none of thise of as good or an inherent part of life. So, as I tell the Christians, your concept of sin doesnt apply to me.

And then we blame everyone else for making us think and behave this way. So that nothing can ever change.

I've nkt done that.

I understand. But you are also now part of the problem. When we become selfish in the face of the fear and selfishness of others, we become the problem. When we try to hide from and deny our complicity, we also enable and become the problem.

What if him is selfish? He's been doing his part to try to get people to accept the risks of covid and comply with health guidelines.
But, I wonder, are you seeing yourself and projecting it into others? Is it you who have accepted greed, ignorance, and selfishness as a part of life and thus are rhings you indulge in?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If everyone is the problem, then it should be called "normal".
I reserve the word "problem" for things which aren't universal & inherent.

Cancer isn't inherent that we will get it, its not universally deadly, but its still very problematic though it is a normal thing for the occasional person to develop it.

 

[Revoltingest]

Cancer isn't inherent that we will get it, its not universally deadly, but its still very problematic though it is a normal thing for the occasional person to develop it.

Cancer is indeed a problem.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You're just dodging the question. Besides, there are people who live all their lives in smoking homes and never get a hint of lung problems. Why is that?

Because smoking won't 100% give you cancer, just as not smoking will not full proof protect you against lung cancer, the odds are so smaller that lung cancer wasn't even much a thing in Western Medicine until tobacco smoking. Then the chances of lung cancer, or a number of other cancers and health ailemnts, becomes significantly high enough that tobacco is hamds down the deadliest drug there is, killing more people annually than all other drugs (prescription, OTC, legal recreational and illegal street drugs) combined.

 

[BSM1]

Because smoking won't 100% give you cancer, just as not smoking will not full proof protect you against lung cancer, the odds are so smaller that lung cancer wasn't even much a thing in Western Medicine until tobacco smoking. Then the chances of lung cancer, or a number of other cancers and health ailemnts, becomes significantly high enough that tobacco is hamds down the deadliest drug there is, killing more people annually than all other drugs (prescription, OTC, legal recreational and illegal street drugs) combined.

Same thing with not wearing a mask?

 

[Revoltingest]

Same thing with not wearing a mask?

Not wearing a mask, & not keeping distance will only increase
one's odds of infection, which only increases the odds of
disability or death. Tis good to minimize those odds, eh.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Same thing with not wearing a mask?

Not wearing a mask is more like second hand smoke. Wearing a mask is more like going outside to smoke away from others. People'll still smell it, so its still there, but its significantly and greatly reduced how much others are exposed to.

 

[PureX]

See, this is my issue. If we take your perspective as fact, we are all part of the problem with no hope of redemption.

I think there is always hope for change. Humans CAN learn, even if they are not often so inclined.

I am not suggesting that we all stop trying, but this where I am confused with your perspective. What should we do now?

I agree that it's a 'tough nut'. But then again, all it really requires is that we change the way we think. Is that really that hard? Especially when nearly all of us would benefit from it?