The overwhelming episode of "Rape claim" & its effect on Males look towards females

[Kangaroo Feathers]

You wrote: If "don't flirt with people who don't appreciate it" is your definition of "walking on eggshells" sure, I guess.

Are you going to insist that you actually thought I meant "don't flirt with people who don't appreciate it?"

Do you honestly expect anyone to believe that?

Rather than playing "imply then deny", if that isn't what you meant feel free to explain yourself.

 

[joe1776]

People don't like being teased. Who knew?

Here's a tip, don't bully people at work and pass it off as "just a joke" and you'll be fine.

So, you're saying that when your friends tease you, you feel like you're being bullied?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

So, you're saying that when your friends tease you, you feel like you're being bullied?

People who are actually friends? Of course not. Work acquaintances aren't "friends" though, which seems the crux of your difficulty.

 

[joe1776]

People who are actually friends? Of course not. Work acquaintances aren't "friends" though, which seems the crux of your difficulty.

In your first post to me, you implied that you thought of yourself as socially superior to me; in the next, you twisted my words trying to make me appear like a clod; in the third, you implied that teasing my friends was bullying behavior that they didn't like. But I trapped you on that one. Now you're trying to weasel out of it by implying that the people we work with can't be friends. They are merely acquaintances.

So, please explain: why do you feel you have social expertise that I lack and I need your advice on how to get along with people?

 

[oldbadger]

I agree with you that in today's workplace a male should avoid compliments to his female co-workers,qualified or unqualified. I disagree, however, with your characterizing of a compliment as being "patronizing." That's a harsh judgment.

I have complimented my male co-workers at times, and I've received them, but I don't feel the need to qualify my compliment to make sure they know it isn't a come-on. We male friends can also tease each other without mercy. It's a way of showing affection: one is showing trust in the other's friendship. But with women in today's workplace, it can't be done without some risk.




.

Fair enough, but my 'kind of patronising approach' was fair, and different to your more explicit version, imo.

What I meant was that a significant % of such compliments are probably a 'kind of patronising approach', and in any event to consider that before making personal compliments could help to produce a safety margin. As far as work-mates go, I probably turned compliments round into insults which seemed to work very well. An example might be a mate who comes to work in very expensive trainers; I would probably ask him which boot-fair he got 'em from, or suggest they look great for fakes!

 

[joe1776]

Fair enough, but my 'kind of patronising approach' was fair, and different to your more explicit version, imo.

What I meant was that a significant % of such compliments are probably a 'kind of patronising approach', and in any event to consider that before making personal compliments could help to produce a safety margin. As far as work-mates go, I probably turned compliments round into insults which seemed to work very well. An example might be a mate who comes to work in very expensive trainers; I would probably ask him which boot-fair he got 'em from, or suggest they look great for fakes!

Whether to compliment or not and whether to tease or not has always been a case-by -case judgment, so the idea of trying to make rules to cover situations which will happen in almost infinite variety is a dumb thing to do, IMO.

Men who see women as only sexual objects have always been guilty of boorish behavior. And, it's high time they get punished for it. But men who like and respect women have never been a problem but a hyper-sensitive climate in the workplace affects their behavior as well -- to the detriment of both sexes.

 

[Jumi]

I highlighted your question.
Do you by any chance live in a strange eastern land which just arrests and 'disappears' folks on the whim of the cops or officials?

In all the western countries that I know, we have HUMAN RIGHTS legislations which protect accused people. It is basically founded on the tenet that EVERYBODY IS PRESUMED INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY...... and thank goodness for that. One day, if you live in any of these countries, you may be very glad for the protection that this affords for a loved one.

You seem to be making a lot of wrong guesses about my convictions very loosely basing your angry writings on what I said. I for one don't think where your posts originate.

Then it's very lucky that you never named the men who you accused, because if you had then they would be libeled, defamed and characters smashed by untruths.

You think I'd put people's names up even if they were guilty? How insulting of you.

Regardless of what you want to believe, these people have other convictions now. Sure, they're your kind of people I guess?

I can now with some confidence feel that none of what you claim actually happened.

That's very nice for you in a fantasy land kind of way. You can believe no crimes happen that don't lead to convictions. As long as they look happy on camera, no one can kill them or rape them.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What do you mean by innocent fun? would have been a simple question which I would have willingly answered: I meant flirting without serious sexual intent. I erred in thinking that the meaning was obvious given the context of the discussion that preceded it.

In many cases, that's neither innocent nor fun.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I agree with you that in today's workplace a male should avoid compliments to his female co-workers,qualified or unqualified.

Comments on a co-worker's appearance generally aren't a good idea, but there's no danger at all in compliments like "great presentation!"

 

[joe1776]

In many cases, that's neither innocent nor fun.

Still, you know full well that pointing out that there are exceptions does not deny what is true as a general rule. And... most of the statements we make in this forum are general statements. So, if we were so inclined, we could find fault with most unless the writer begins with a qualifier such as "As a general rule.."

 

[joe1776]

Comments on a co-worker's appearance generally aren't a good idea, but there's no danger at all in compliments like "great presentation!"

What was wrong with the presentation I made on this last week?!

 

[oldbadger]

Whether to compliment or not and whether to tease or not has always been a case-by -case judgment, so the idea of trying to make rules to cover situations which will happen in almost infinite variety is a dumb thing to do, IMO.

Who is making rules?
For men to take care about such things ain't a rule, it's just simple survival, imo.

Men who see women as only sexual objects have always been guilty of boorish behavior. And, it's high time they get punished for it. But men who like and respect women have never been a problem but a hyper-sensitive climate in the workplace affects their behavior as well -- to the detriment of both sexes.

It's not what men 'see women as', it's only what men (and women for that matter) actually do and say. They can think what they like, unless of course you want a thought-process kind of control?
The climate is fast becoming hyper-sensitive, where (mostly) men might be accused of crimes out of the blue, and years after the alleged incident, a situation which could end their reputations, careers, even marriages.
Oh yes..... the situation is hyper-sensitive alright, and many men will be thinking and saying, 'It is for Me Too.'

 

[oldbadger]

You seem to be making a lot of wrong guesses about my convictions very loosely basing your angry writings on what I said. I for one don't think where your posts originate.

You think I'd put people's names up even if they were guilty? How insulting of you.

Regardless of what you want to believe, these people have other convictions now. Sure, they're your kind of people I guess?

That's very nice for you in a fantasy land kind of way. You can believe no crimes happen that don't lead to convictions. As long as they look happy on camera, no one can kill them or rape them.

What an angry rant.
Of course you can print court results up and name convicted criminals! Anybody can name an adult convict, but not minors.
You called them perps when they were only suspects at most.
All the fantasy is yours, I'm afraid......

 

[oldbadger]

So, you're saying that when your friends tease you, you feel like you're being bullied?

Teasing in the workplace can be a very serious form of bullying, and if challenged the bullies can hide behind, 'We were only teasing!'

 

[joe1776]

Teasing in the workplace can be a very serious form of bullying, and if challenged the bullies can hide behind, 'We were only teasing!'

Is teasing USUALLY bullying? NO. It is seldom bullying.



Notice: All comments I make in this forum should be considered as general statements unless I specifically state otherwise

 

[oldbadger]

Is teasing USUALLY bullying? NO. It is seldom bullying.

Notice: All comments I make in this forum should be considered as general statements unless I specifically state otherwise

It's often bullying.

 

[joe1776]

It's often bullying.

Not in my experience.

 

[Jumi]

What an angry rant.

You've been hostile and lying about my views from minute one, making up things about my posts that I haven't said. And you expect someone to be friendly?

Another one for the ignore list I guess.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What was wrong with the presentation I made on this last week?!

What presentation are you talking about?

 

[SkepticThinker]

In a work sense though, even we knuckle walking males have had to exercise great care.
Guys performing maintenance in gals' dwellings face compromising situations, with some
being purposely imposed upon them. The things my crew & have endured have at times
meant bringing witnesses along. Granted, this stuff is uncommon....far less than 1% of calls.
But it gives one pause.

I once had a self storage facility manager I fired for incompetence. After that, a couple
female tenants told me of his inappropriate conversation.....one was about his proctologist.
I believed that one.
This ex-employee went on to be a high school teacher.
No one ever called me for a background check, btw.

People's fears, anxieties, & concerns vary in ways hard to anticipate,
so the grass isn't always so green on the other side.

Eesh, that's scary that such a person went on to teach high school.

I know what you're saying and I agree that anyone is capable of sexual harrassment/assault, but like I pointed out in our last conversation on the subject, let's not turn this into something it isn't. I resent the fact that apparently some people have now turned #MeToo around and are trying to make men out to be the victims and making it out to seem like most accusations are false, when we know that is not the case. Women are still the victims, in the vast majority of cases. And I think this whole Kavanaugh thing has shown us that nothing has changed all that much since the days of Anita Hill. If anything, they seem to have gotten worse. After all the claims that Kavanaugh's life and reputation have been ruined and he'll never recover and blah, blah, blah ... turns out, he's going to be just fine. Better than just fine, he's now a Supreme Court Justice. Meanwhile, Christine Blasey-Ford and her family still can't return home because their lives are still being threatened, and she was mocked and ridiculed by the President on national television (after very painfully describing in her testimony how her attackers laughed at her while they were attacking her and how that has stuck with her all these years), while a huge crowd of people laughed along with him. And I still see people wondering why victims don't speak out while at the same time trying to paint men as the victims. It's crazy.

As to this stuff about men having to be so darned afraid about flirting with co-workers in the office, now that women are speaking out, I'm sorry, but I don't have much sympathy, if that's men's biggest problem here. Maybe I can illustrate this for you. It was a nice night last night and so I felt like going for a walk and maybe grabbing a coffee at the shop a couple of blocks away. It was around dusk and was just getting dark. So I realized it was going to be quite dark on my way back. Instead of just putting on my shoes and walking to the shop, as my husband would do, I had to sit and think about what I would need to bring with me to be safe. Or whether I should even go at all. I grabbed my cell phone, and put that in my front pocket, just in case I needed to call someone if there was an emergency. Then I needed to get something to use as a weapon, just in case I was attacked. I grabbed a pocket knife that my father had given men for that very purpose and put that in my front pocket as well. I didn't want to bring my purse on my arm, in case someone were to grab it, so I stuffed some money in my shoe. Then I thought I should call somebody and talk to them on the phone while I walked, thinking that maybe if someone were thinking about attacking me, they might think twice if I were talking to someone on the phone that could help me. So I called my sister. She didn't think it was weird at all that that was the reason I was calling. I live in a very safe neighbourhood, where people are seldom attacked. And yet here I was doing all this. Millions of women do this every day of their lives as part of their routine, while men just walk out the front door without having to give it a second thought. So it's hard for me to muster up much sympathy for people when they complain that thanks to women sharing their sexual harassment/assault stories more openly now, that in-office flirting is going to be negatively affected or that men need to be more cautious when meeting women in night clubs.That's just a tiny fraction of what women have been dealing with their entire lives. Do you guys have any idea how cautious women have to be in nightclubs? We have to go with a chaperone, we have to guard our drinks in case someone slips something into it, we have to be careful who we talk to and how we get home, and on and on. If you're that afraid, then here's a tip ... don't flirt with your co-workers. You'll live. Besides, I don't want my co-workers trying to flirt with me.