The Problem with "Fighting" Homosexuality

[sojourner]

MY UNDERSTANDING OF SCRIPTURE IS ACCURATE, IT'S NOT DISTORTED IN ANY WAY. YOUR UNDERSTANDING IS WHAT'S DISTORTED, AS A RESULT OF GOD NOT UNVEILING THEIR MEANING TO YOU, DUE TO LACK OF AN HONEST HEART. THE SCRIPTURES SAY THAT PRETTY CLEARLY.

Anyone could just as easily turn that argument back on you, stating with exactly the same credibility that you have, that they are accurate, and that it's your understanding that's distorted due to to lack of an honest heart -- and that the scriptures say that pretty clearly. Except that they'd have the evidence of 3rd party corroboration on their side.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

27 pages! "Are we there yet?"

 

[MikeSavage]

Prove it.

Prove it.

And those writers constituted the religion we call "Christianity."

Prove it.

Prove it.

Not my fault that you find the truth boring and beneath you.

You've stated a lot of unfounded opinion for which you have 0 proof, and for which you will never have any proof. Anyone with a brain stem can throw unfounded opinion around and claim "God told me so." Too bad you've nothing real to offer...

I will prove nothing. You prove it to yourself. All you need is an accurate translation.

 

[LuisDantas]

I will prove nothing. You prove it to yourself. All you need is an accurate translation.

That is pushing freedom of speculation to the utmost, and creating a mythical version of the Bible that has an unusually low chance of ever having existed in the first place.

I don't understand that fixation in scriptures that some people have.

 

[MikeSavage]

That is pushing freedom of speculation to the utmost, and creating a mythical version of the Bible that has an unusually low chance of ever having existed in the first place.

I don't understand that fixation in scriptures that some people have.

Rediculousness from a rediculous person. You are apostate and expect others to talk to you? Not likely.

 

[LuisDantas]

What is the problem with being an apostate?

I don't know if I qualify (I was never really a Christian, just pressured into going through the motions), but it is them who keep religions honest.

 

[sojourner]

I will prove nothing. You prove it to yourself. All you need is an accurate translation.

Nope. You're the one making the claims. The burden of proof is, therefore, upon you. The biblical texts simply don't deal with claims that "Judaism" and "Christendom" are "false." That information is simply not in there, unless you're interpreting something in a really funky way (which I suspect to be the case). If you're going to claim "I'm right and you're false," you're gonna have to prove it. Otherwise, it's just pi$$ing in the wind.

 

[sojourner]

Rediculousness from a rediculous person. You are apostate and expect others to talk to you? Not likely.

Unfortunately for you, he's right.

Plus, Jesus not only talked to apostates -- he gave them spiritual direction. Such as the woman at the well. Are you saying that you're above doing what Jesus did? When did "true Christianity," that is full of compassion, mercy, and justice, become so elitist that you can't bring yourself to converse with others?

 

[leibowde84]

I'm not sure what exactly you're looking for in a debate here. The ironic thing about homosexuality, in my opinion, is that is is "unnatural" - as religion claims - to an extent. Homosexuality can almost be seen as a natural defect, similar to lactose intolerance or depression which, from a natural selection view, are completely wrong. The irony here should be obvious! To make this argument you have to accept evolution.

Anyways, we don't let depressed people (like me for instance!) just kill themselves, there are ways to help. We don't let disabled people fend for themselves, or paralyzed individuals crawl around. All these would be "unnatural" to continue in accordance with evolution. Suicide leads to no reproduction, homosexuality leads to no reproduction, paralisys would lead to starvation and death. The thing is, in our modern world, these "defects" aren't cause for concern.

With the "defects" mentioned above, there is an effort to help these people live full and happy lives despite their afflictions. In essence, they are taught to embrace their disability in order to manage it. With homosexuality, this logic would tell us to encourage and help homosexuals to embrace their sexuality and not shy away from it, demanding that those without it not treat you differently because of it. Would you agree with this?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

It's no good fighting homosexuality. Some people are gay, get over it!

 

[MikeSavage]

What is the problem with being an apostate?

I don't know if I qualify (I was never really a Christian, just pressured into going through the motions), but it is them who keep religions honest.

It's who who makes who honest?

 

[MikeSavage]

Nope. You're the one making the claims. The burden of proof is, therefore, upon you. The biblical texts simply don't deal with claims that "Judaism" and "Christendom" are "false." That information is simply not in there, unless you're interpreting something in a really funky way (which I suspect to be the case). If you're going to claim "I'm right and you're false," you're gonna have to prove it. Otherwise, it's just pi$$ing in the wind.

I am not making claims. I am stating what the scriptures say and mean. And, I don't "interpret" scriptures. They stand on their own. The scriptures tell us not to interpret them anyway. They also tell us not to stand on our own reasoning, but to rely on God's reasoning. Stating what the scriptures say is not "pissing in the wind". It's you who's pissing in the wind. If you want any proof of anything, find it yourself. You have access to a Bible. Research it. I am not here to do your work for you.

 

[sojourner]

I am not making claims. I am stating what the scriptures say and mean.

You're making claims that the bible says that no Catholics, no Orthodox, no Methodists, no Lutherans are true Christians. The bible doesn't say that; you claim the bible says that.

And, I don't "interpret" scriptures.

You can't know know what the texts mean unless you interpret, for meaning comes out of interpretation. When you read the texts in anything but Hebrew and Koine Greek, you're interpreting.

The scriptures tell us not to interpret them anyway.

No they don't. If they did, there would be no English versions, nor would there be an LXX.

Stating what the scriptures say is not "pissing in the wind".

It is if you can't back it up with exegetical reasoning.

I am not here to do your work for you.

Apparently, you're not here to do your own work, either.

If you can produce one biblical passage that actually says, "No Catholic, no Orthodox, no Methodist, no Lutheran is a true Christian," I'll publicly say that I was wrong; you were right, and you're more biblically literate than I -- no strings attached. And I'll leave you alone. Until you can do that, you're making a baseless claim -- I'm right and you're wrong.

 

[dgirl1986]

What is the problem with being an apostate?

I don't know if I qualify (I was never really a Christian, just pressured into going through the motions), but it is them who keep religions honest.

Everytime someone says apostate I think of Dragon Age: Origins

 

[dgirl1986]

With the "defects" mentioned above, there is an effort to help these people live full and happy lives despite their afflictions. In essence, they are taught to embrace their disability in order to manage it. With homosexuality, this logic would tell us to encourage and help homosexuals to embrace their sexuality and not shy away from it, demanding that those without it not treat you differently because of it. Would you agree with this?

1 - Not an affliction
2 - Neither is it a disability
3 - What you are talking about is making people repress themselves which does psychological harm
4 - There is nothing wrong with asking to be treated equally

 

[MikeSavage]

You're making claims that the bible says that no Catholics, no Orthodox, no Methodists, no Lutherans are true Christians. The bible doesn't say that; you claim the bible says that.

You can't know know what the texts mean unless you interpret, for meaning comes out of interpretation. When you read the texts in anything but Hebrew and Koine Greek, you're interpreting.

No they don't. If they did, there would be no English versions, nor would there be an LXX.

It is if you can't back it up with exegetical reasoning.

Apparently, you're not here to do your own work, either.

If you can produce one biblical passage that actually says, "No Catholic, no Orthodox, no Methodist, no Lutheran is a true Christian," I'll publicly say that I was wrong; you were right, and you're more biblically literate than I -- no strings attached. And I'll leave you alone. Until you can do that, you're making a baseless claim -- I'm right and you're wrong.

It doesn't list all religions, it says all religions are false.
I CAN know what the texts mean WITHOUT interpreting, which is merely guessing. God said that "interpretation belongs only to me". When you read the texts in anything but Hebrew and Koine Greek you are interpreting? It appears that you are intoxicated. You made a COMPLETELY FALSE statement
I don't "back it up" with anyone. It's not my job. I am not a child. You say "prove it" repeatedly, and "back it up", as though you are a little child. Well, I am not one, and I won't converse in this way with one.
You claim that "apparently you're not here to do your own work, either". What, exactly, are you falsely claiming is my own work? To do your bidding? NO. That's not my work. You are apparently quite lazy, and cannot do your own research, so you act childish and demand that others do it for you. Sorry, I don't play that game.

 

[sojourner]

It doesn't list all religions, it says all religions are false.

Cite the text.

When you read the texts in anything but Hebrew and Koine Greek you are interpreting? It appears that you are intoxicated. You made a COMPLETELY FALSE statement

The OT was written in Hebrew; the NT was written in Greek. ALL English translations are ... well... translations, which, in many cases, involves interpretation.

I don't "back it up" with anyone. It's not my job. I am not a child. You say "prove it" repeatedly, and "back it up", as though you are a little child. Well, I am not one, and I won't converse in this way with one.

When scientists make claims, they have to prove those claims, backing them up with evidence. That's not childish, it's responsible.
You're making claims that lie outside the norm of generally-accepted truth. You need to back those claims up.

What, exactly, are you falsely claiming is my own work?

Backing up your claims with evidence.

You are apparently quite lazy, and cannot do your own research, so you act childish and demand that others do it for you. Sorry, I don't play that game.

I (and most of the educated, reasonable world) have already done our research and have established norms. You, however, seem to have come along on your own, made a few misplaced statements with no evidence, and claim that it's "the truth." The rest of us don't play that game.

 

[MikeSavage]

Cite the text.

The OT was written in Hebrew; the NT was written in Greek. ALL English translations are ... well... translations, which, in many cases, involves interpretation.

When scientists make claims, they have to prove those claims, backing them up with evidence. That's not childish, it's responsible.
You're making claims that lie outside the norm of generally-accepted truth. You need to back those claims up.

Backing up your claims with evidence.

I (and most of the educated, reasonable world) have already done our research and have established norms. You, however, seem to have come along on your own, made a few misplaced statements with no evidence, and claim that it's "the truth." The rest of us don't play that game.

The Hebrew scriptures were MOSTLY written in Hebrew; the Christian Greek scriptures were MOSTLY written in Greek. All English translations are TRANSLATIONS, which in many cases does involve interpretation, thus, making them FALSE TRANSLATIONS. Look at the KJV for example. It's a mess, and does not adhere to accuracy. It's a translation made from OTHER TRANSLATIONS, to satisfy a king and a parliament, not God. Not God's people. You said I make claims that are outside of the generally accepted truth, but no, they're outside the generally accepted TEACHINGS. That doesn't make them truthful. I don't NEED to back up anything. You've done your research, and yet you still come to the wrong understanding of most scriptures. And yes, you do play games. Interpreting scriptures is a game. It's not scholarly, it's stupid. It NEVER causes one to arrive at the truth of the scriptures, it only causes one to arrive at GUESSES as to what they say. What I post is EXACTLY the truth of the scriptures. How I arrive at that is my concern, not any one elses. If you have a problem with it, forget it, research it, or shut up.

 

[McBell]

I am not making claims.

Yes you are.
In fact, your claim of not making claims is also a claim.

I am stating what the scriptures say and mean.

No, you are merely voicing your opinion on what you think the scriptures say.

And, I don't "interpret" scriptures.

Really?
So who are you parroting?

They stand on their own.

No, they really don't.

The scriptures tell us not to interpret them anyway.

So then, who is it you are parroting?

They also tell us not to stand on our own reasoning, but to rely on God's reasoning. Stating what the scriptures say is not "pissing in the wind". It's you who's pissing in the wind. If you want any proof of anything, find it yourself. You have access to a Bible. Research it. I am not here to do your work for you.

Since all you do is make bold empty claims and issue empty threats...

 

[McBell]

It doesn't list all religions, it says all religions are false.
I CAN know what the texts mean WITHOUT interpreting, which is merely guessing. God said that "interpretation belongs only to me". When you read the texts in anything but Hebrew and Koine Greek you are interpreting? It appears that you are intoxicated. You made a COMPLETELY FALSE statement
I don't "back it up" with anyone. It's not my job. I am not a child. You say "prove it" repeatedly, and "back it up", as though you are a little child. Well, I am not one, and I won't converse in this way with one.
You claim that "apparently you're not here to do your own work, either". What, exactly, are you falsely claiming is my own work? To do your bidding? NO. That's not my work. You are apparently quite lazy, and cannot do your own research, so you act childish and demand that others do it for you. Sorry, I don't play that game.

Yes, you merely make a bunch of bold empty claims and then get all whiney when questioned.