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The Problem with "Fighting" Homosexuality

sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
MikeSavage said:
So you choose Satan. Why didn't you say so in the first place?
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I didn't say I choose Satan. I said that there is absolutely no information about Jesus outside the church. If you have any sources that are not the provenance of the church, by all means, produce them here so we can all share in the joy and salvation of the not-church.
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
MikeSavage said:
No, I never said that, you did. I said that God's word is the only approach. No other exists. Using religion is not an approach to God, it is an egress AWAY from God, as per God Himself.
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You have been claiming this whole time that your way is correct. Not anyone elses way, but your way alone is true because of what the Bible and God says, and it says this is god's way. And you claim this even though your scriptures tell you only god can judge.
 
M

MikeSavage

Active Member
sojourner said:
I didn't say I choose Satan. I said that there is absolutely no information about Jesus outside the church. If you have any sources that are not the provenance of the church, by all means, produce them here so we can all share in the joy and salvation of the not-church.
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The scriptures, and therefore God, tells us that you choose Him, or by default, Satan.
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
MikeSavage said:
The scriptures, and therefore God, tells us that you choose Him, or by default, Satan.
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Don't deflect the question. If you have sources for Jesus that are not ultimately the provenance of the church, then produce them so we can see them.
 
M

MikeSavage

Active Member
sojourner said:
Don't deflect the question. If you have sources for Jesus that are not ultimately the provenance of the church, then produce them so we can see them.
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So, now you are giving orders? Presumptious, aren't you? Sources for Jesus? Have you lost your mind? Insane much?
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
MikeSavage said:
So, now you are giving orders? Presumptious, aren't you? Sources for Jesus? Have you lost your mind? Insane much?
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Still deflecting? Can't simply answer the question? I asked for information; you deflected. I asked for sources for Jesus that are not the provenance of the church. Can you give some? It's very, very simple. Either you have sources that have not been tainted by the church, or you don't. If you do, I'd sure like to know what they are. Why are you making this so dang difficult?? (By "church" I mean what you would call "the false church.")

We've already established that the bible is the provenance of "the false church" (including Judaism). We've already established that much of the non-canonical writings are the provenance of that same church. I simply want to know where you're getting your reliable information, because, by your own admission, nothing "the false church" has touched is reliable. Please produce your "reliable" sources for Jesus.
 
M

MikeSavage

Active Member
sojourner said:
Still deflecting? Can't simply answer the question? I asked for information; you deflected. I asked for sources for Jesus that are not the provenance of the church. Can you give some? It's very, very simple. Either you have sources that have not been tainted by the church, or you don't. If you do, I'd sure like to know what they are. Why are you making this so dang difficult?? (By "church" I mean what you would call "the false church.")

We've already established that the bible is the provenance of "the false church" (including Judaism). We've already established that much of the non-canonical writings are the provenance of that same church. I simply want to know where you're getting your reliable information, because, by your own admission, nothing "the false church" has touched is reliable. Please produce your "reliable" sources for Jesus.
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No, the false translations like King James and DR and NIV and ASV and most others are the provenance of false religion. The inspired word of God, however, is not. You didn't ask for information, you pretty much demanded it. The only thing you need to know about Jesus the Christ is in an accurate translation of the scriptures. Since you are not one of those written in the scroll of life, what's the point? You have no desire to be written into that scroll, so why should anyone bother to answer your demands? You have no right to make those demands anyway. One so thoroughly loving the world that Jesus taught us to be no part of couldn't possibly understand any truth anyway. Stop being so presumptous and demanding and go play somewhere else.
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
MikeSavage said:
No, the false translations like King James and DR and NIV and ASV and most others are the provenance of false religion. The inspired word of God, however, is not. You didn't ask for information, you pretty much demanded it. The only thing you need to know about Jesus the Christ is in an accurate translation of the scriptures. Since you are not one of those written in the scroll of life, what's the point? You have no desire to be written into that scroll, so why should anyone bother to answer your demands? You have no right to make those demands anyway. One so thoroughly loving the world that Jesus taught us to be no part of couldn't possibly understand any truth anyway. Stop being so presumptous and demanding and go play somewhere else.
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The whole bible was written in the first place by "false religion" -- including Judaism, as you state. Therefore, every translation of a not-trustworthy text is also not trustworthy. If you condemn the "false religion" that wrote the text, you condemn the text. You got nothing, IOW. Least of all any idea who I am or what I have or have not embraced, or my spiritual disposition. To quote a Famous Christian: "Stop being so presumptuous..."
 
M

MikeSavage

Active Member
sojourner said:
The whole bible was written in the first place by "false religion" -- including Judaism, as you state. Therefore, every translation of a not-trustworthy text is also not trustworthy. If you condemn the "false religion" that wrote the text, you condemn the text. You got nothing, IOW. Least of all any idea who I am or what I have or have not embraced, or my spiritual disposition. To quote a Famous Christian: "Stop being so presumptuous..."
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The scriptures were not written by Judaism. It didn't begin to exist until well after Christ's death. The writers of the Christian Greek scriptures, what you call the New Testament, were written mostly by Hebrews who embraced what Jesus taught (essentially Christianity). Judaism is yet another false religion, created by man. Your postulations again are completely false. Try making one that isn't false. It may actually approach something interesting, as you've failed to say anything of any interest yet.
 
gsa

gsa

Well-Known Member
MikeSavage said:
No, the false translations like King James and DR and NIV and ASV and most others are the provenance of false religion. The inspired word of God, however, is not. You didn't ask for information, you pretty much demanded it. The only thing you need to know about Jesus the Christ is in an accurate translation of the scriptures. Since you are not one of those written in the scroll of life, what's the point? You have no desire to be written into that scroll, so why should anyone bother to answer your demands? You have no right to make those demands anyway. One so thoroughly loving the world that Jesus taught us to be no part of couldn't possibly understand any truth anyway. Stop being so presumptous and demanding and go play somewhere else.
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Setting aside your offensive attacks on other forum members who disagree with you, I don't see how you could possibly know that the scriptures are inspired, or how the selection of the scriptures was a trustworthy process, or if any translation is accurate. I mean who determines the accuracy of translation, the proper scriptures, etc? Particularly since I doubt you have read the scriptures in their original languages; certainly the vast majority of Christians have not.
 
M

MikeSavage

Active Member
gsaseeker said:
Setting aside your offensive attacks on other forum members who disagree with you, I don't see how you could possibly know that the scriptures are inspired, or how the selection of the scriptures was a trustworthy process, or if any translation is accurate. I mean who determines the accuracy of translation, the proper scriptures, etc? Particularly since I doubt you have read the scriptures in their original languages; certainly the vast majority of Christians have not.
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Just by asking such a question proves that there is no point in attempting to talk to you about it. You are unable to understand such things. The scriptures tell us that Satan puts a veil over their meaning to those who are on his side. Those on God's side, God uses holy spirit to unveil and to reveal the meaning of scriptures to an individual. If God sees in you an honest heart, he uses holy spirit in your case. If He does not see an honest heart, he does not use holy spirit. Therefore you are unable to ever grasp the meaning, message of, and truth of scriptures. Therefore, why do you continue to inquire?

And I have not attacked anyone who "disagreed" with me. It's God with whom they disagree, not me. If you had an honest heart you would already know how the selection of scriptures took place. You would already know if a translation is accurate. You could, if you took the time to research it, see that translations are accurate or not. You've probably not ever met a Christian. You've certainly met many of Christendom though. The difference is light years apart. Anyone part of a religion claiming to be Christian is most certainly not Christian, they are part of Christendom. You continue to not let that sink into your head. Religion is false. Christianity is not. No religion is Christian. Christianity is not religion. Don't let your head explode over that fact, because it probably cannot sink in. The scriptures explain this pretty well. These are not my thoughts but God's thoughts He included in His inspired word.
 
gsa

gsa

Well-Known Member
MikeSavage said:
Just by asking such a question proves that there is no point in attempting to talk to you about it. You are unable to understand such things. The scriptures tell us that Satan puts a veil over their meaning to those who are on his side. Those on God's side, God uses holy spirit to unveil and to reveal the meaning of scriptures to an individual. If God sees in you an honest heart, he uses holy spirit in your case. If He does not see an honest heart, he does not use holy spirit. Therefore you are unable to ever grasp the meaning, message of, and truth of scriptures. Therefore, why do you continue to inquire?

And I have not attacked anyone who "disagreed" with me. It's God with whom they disagree, not me. If you had an honest heart you would already know how the selection of scriptures took place. You would already know if a translation is accurate. You could, if you took the time to research it, see that translations are accurate or not. You've probably not ever met a Christian. You've certainly met many of Christendom though. The difference is light years apart. Anyone part of a religion claiming to be Christian is most certainly not Christian, they are part of Christendom. You continue to not let that sink into your head. Religion is false. Christianity is not. No religion is Christian. Christianity is not religion. Don't let your head explode over that fact, because it probably cannot sink in. The scriptures explain this pretty well. These are not my thoughts but God's thoughts He included in His inspired word.
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So let me get this straight:

1. If a person is not convinced by your claims about scripture (which you attribute to God), they are under a veil of ignorance imposed by Satan and demonic entities. Is that about it? And therefore it is pointless to try to talk to them? So why do you bother participating in a forum like this, in a religious debate section?

2. I've heard your claims about "Christianity is not a religion" before, it is nothing new. I am very familiar with fundamentalism and evangelicalism, which is similar in many ways to JWs, so nothing you say is likely to be new to me. Your understanding of the Christian scriptures, and church history, is even more distorted than the views of orthodox fundamentalists.
 
M

MikeSavage

Active Member
gsaseeker said:
So let me get this straight:

1. If a person is not convinced by your claims about scripture (which you attribute to God), they are under a veil of ignorance imposed by Satan and demonic entities. Is that about it? And therefore it is pointless to try to talk to them? So why do you bother participating in a forum like this, in a religious debate section?

2. I've heard your claims about "Christianity is not a religion" before, it is nothing new. I am very familiar with fundamentalism and evangelicalism, which is similar in many ways to JWs, so nothing you say is likely to be new to me. Your understanding of the Christian scriptures, and church history, is even more distorted than the views of orthodox fundamentalists.
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You posted:
So let me get this straight:

1. If a person is not convinced by your claims about scripture NOT MY "CLAIMS", THAT WHICH THE SCRIPTURES ACTUALLY SAY (which you attribute to God), they are under a veil of ignorance imposed by Satan and demonic entities NOT BY SATAN AND HIS DEMONIC ENTITIES, THEY ARE CALLED DEMONS, FORMERLY ONE THIRD OF THE ANGELS THAT GOD CREATED, AND ONLY SATAN IMPOSES THE VEIL. Is that about it? And therefore it is pointless to try to talk to them? THEM BEING EXACTLY WHO? ARE YOU TRYING TO TALK TO SATAN AND DEMONS? So why do you bother participating in a forum like this, in a religious debate section? IT'S NOT A RELIGIOUS "DEBATE" SECTION. IT'S A RELIGIOUS ARTICLE INVITING COMMENTS.

2. I've heard your claims about "Christianity is not a religion" before, it is nothing new. I am very familiar with fundamentalism and evangelicalism, which is similar in many ways to JWs, so nothing you say is likely to be new to me. Your understanding of the Christian scriptures, and church history, is even more distorted than the views of orthodox MY UNDERSTANDING OF SCRIPTURE IS ACCURATE, IT'S NOT DISTORTED IN ANY WAY. YOUR UNDERSTANDING IS WHAT'S DISTORTED, AS A RESULT OF GOD NOT UNVEILING THEIR MEANING TO YOU, DUE TO LACK OF AN HONEST HEART. THE SCRIPTURES SAY THAT PRETTY CLEARLY. IT IS YOU WHO FAIL TO READ/UNDERSTAND THESE THINGS. IT IS NO FAILURE ON MY PART, OR ON GOD'S PART. IT'S YOUR FAILURE.
 
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