The Problem with "Fighting" Homosexuality

[MikeSavage]

You're trying to judge my former religion, and you are completely missing the mark. To my former religion, "church" was not a building, and it wasn't the clergy, but we had the same mentality that everybody else that wasn't one of us was wrong. You are continuing to do one of the things I said was a reason I exorcized the Holy Spirit from myself, and denounced the Lamb and Father. The Bible clearly states that we are not to judge one another, as that is left for god to do, but those who pick up the banner of Christ (in the most generalized way I can think to put it) are so very often the first ones to judge.

NO. I am telling you what the scriptures say.

 

[MikeSavage]

But Jesus didn't say "Love your neighbour as yourself, but only if they're straight" or "Blessed are the heterosexuals for they shall populate the earth"

No one said he did.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

No one said he did.

So where does the religious homophobia come from then? Christ would not have discriminated on the basis of sexual orientation, so why do Christians?

 

[MikeSavage]

So where does the religious homophobia come from then? Christ would not have discriminated on the basis of sexual orientation, so why do Christians?

As I believe I indicated previously, what you call Christians, are actually not. They are Christendom. They stem from divergences from the original "one true faith" that Jesus taught in his three ministries on Earth. He called it the one true faith. Religions, all of which are made up by men, claiim, falsely, to be Christian. They are in fact about half pagan, half Christian in their beliefs and actions. Jesus warned the world about them, and said they were "works of the flesh". Revelation to John says they will all be destroyed along with their members. All other religions, not claiming to be Christian are false as well. The only people on Earth practicing what Jesus taught are Christian, no one else. Those of Christendom, if they adhered to the scriptures, would NEVER behave so abhorrently. We are admonished to love our neighbors as ourselves. To treat all with love and respect. No member of Christendom does that. No church or religion teaches doing the entire will of God, nor do they strictly teach the scriptures. They teach their own beliefs, and they differ in small and large ways from the scriptures. They also all teach things that differ from all other religions. Now, no true, real Christian would ever "fight" homosexuality. Jesus said he loved all men, no matter what they do. He said he hated their actions, not the men themselves. As a Christian, a real one, I do not tell anyone what to think, believe, or do. I simply show them what the scriptures, and therfore what God says about any subject in question, such as homosexuality. It's ones choice how to behave, what to do, and what to believe. However, not adhering to God's will has it's consequences. I do tell others what those consequences are, but still, it's their choice to choose God, or His opponent, Satan. There are only the two choices. Not choosing God, is to choose Satan. Not choosing God, means they aren't written in what the scriptures call "the scroll of life". Those in that scroll will be protected in the final battlle, and have eternal (not immortal) life to look forward to. And if they die, they have a resurrection promised to them. If they're not in the scroll, then the here and now is their only reward.

I hope this sheds a little light on your question.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

NO. I am telling you what the scriptures say.

And they said the exact same thing. Because of what scripture says, we have it right, everyone else has it wrong. You have the same exact attitude that I once had, and that is because of what the Bible says you must do it exactly this way or you have it wrong. It doesn't matter how you justify it, it's still the same position of "I'm right, you're wrong."
I parted ways with Christ nearly 12 years ago, and I have become a much better person over that time because I have to reason on my own without having to resort to ancient book that condones slavery and genocide.

 

[MikeSavage]

And they said the exact same thing. Because of what scripture says, we have it right, everyone else has it wrong. You have the same exact attitude that I once had, and that is because of what the Bible says you must do it exactly this way or you have it wrong. It doesn't matter how you justify it, it's still the same position of "I'm right, you're wrong."
I parted ways with Christ nearly 12 years ago, and I have become a much better person over that time because I have to reason on my own without having to resort to ancient book that condones slavery and genocide.

I assure you that what you say here is NOT what "everyone" else said. No member of any religion would ever say those things. They do not adhere to the scriptures strictly, they adhere to their own religion's teachings, which differ greatly from the Bible, and what God said. Trust me, no religion would ever give you more than a token mention of God's attitude and thinking. It would mean the end of their religion to do so. The "ancient book" never condoned slavery and genocide. Slavery was a common thing, but the scriptures never told anyone to hold slaves. God never committed, or cause to be committed, genocide. When a person, or a people were killed or ordered to be killed, it was for a very valid, just, and legal reason. It was not just to kill them and take what was theirs. The only ones God killed or had killed very thoroughly opposed Him and disobeyed Him, or thwarted His efforts in some way or another. Your viewpoint on these issues comes from not really knowing the reasons and the thinking behind them, on the part of our Creator. Jesus isn't our God, his Father is.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

How is this:

They do not adhere to the scriptures strictly, they adhere to their own religion's teachings, which differ greatly from the Bible, and what God said.

in any way, at all, different from this:

Because of what scripture says, we have it right, everyone else has it wrong.

 

[MikeSavage]

How is this:

in any way, at all, different from this:

Shadow Wolf is part of a religion. If a person says they're the best mechanic ever, do you believe it? If a shop across the street has a mechanic that says the same thing, is he telling the truth? They both work for shops repairing cars. One works at Midas, the other for All Tune and Lube. Are they any different? No, they are the same. You could have them each make a repair to your car, and neither would put your car back into factory condition. However, if you went directly to the factory, that would be yet another story. They are the original repairers of your brand of car. The others say they're better than the original. Who would you trust, the imitators, or the original?

Religions begun by man are imitators of the original faith taught by the originator's son. He was murdered for his efforts. His imitators number in the 3 to 4 thousand brands of imitation. What the original taught is still available to us. Is the imitation better, or is the original better?

 

[McBell]

NO. I am telling you what the scriptures say.

no, you are telling us what you think they say.

Nice try though.

 

[McBell]

I assure you that what you say here is NOT what "everyone" else said. No member of any religion would ever say those things. They do not adhere to the scriptures strictly, they adhere to their own religion's teachings, which differ greatly from the Bible, and what God said. Trust me, no religion would ever give you more than a token mention of God's attitude and thinking. It would mean the end of their religion to do so. The "ancient book" never condoned slavery and genocide. Slavery was a common thing, but the scriptures never told anyone to hold slaves. God never committed, or cause to be committed, genocide. When a person, or a people were killed or ordered to be killed, it was for a very valid, just, and legal reason. It was not just to kill them and take what was theirs. The only ones God killed or had killed very thoroughly opposed Him and disobeyed Him, or thwarted His efforts in some way or another. Your viewpoint on these issues comes from not really knowing the reasons and the thinking behind them, on the part of our Creator. Jesus isn't our God, his Father is.

Trust you?
Based on what?

Surely not your posts on RF....

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Shadow Wolf is part of a religion. If a person says they're the best mechanic ever, do you believe it? If a shop across the street has a mechanic that says the same thing, is he telling the truth? They both work for shops repairing cars. One works at Midas, the other for All Tune and Lube. Are they any different? No, they are the same. You could have them each make a repair to your car, and neither would put your car back into factory condition. However, if you went directly to the factory, that would be yet another story. They are the original repairers of your brand of car. The others say they're better than the original. Who would you trust, the imitators, or the original?

You are still saying that your own approach is correct, while everybody else that doesn't follow your approach is wrong.

 

[MikeSavage]

You are still saying that your own approach is correct, while everybody else that doesn't follow your approach is wrong.

No, I never said that, you did. I said that God's word is the only approach. No other exists. Using religion is not an approach to God, it is an egress AWAY from God, as per God Himself.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

However, if you went directly to the factory, that would be yet another story.

That analogy breaks down because there are many car factories and manufacturers. Which is the "true" car manufacturer, which is the authentic and best? Naturally they would all make that claim.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

No, I never said that

That is exactly what you have been claiming all the way through. Your way is the only true way. Funny how people from all sorts of religions make that very same claim.

 

[sojourner]

Shadow Wolf is part of a religion. If a person says they're the best mechanic ever, do you believe it? If a shop across the street has a mechanic that says the same thing, is he telling the truth? They both work for shops repairing cars. One works at Midas, the other for All Tune and Lube. Are they any different? No, they are the same. You could have them each make a repair to your car, and neither would put your car back into factory condition. However, if you went directly to the factory, that would be yet another story. They are the original repairers of your brand of car. The others say they're better than the original. Who would you trust, the imitators, or the original?

Religions begun by man are imitators of the original faith taught by the originator's son. He was murdered for his efforts. His imitators number in the 3 to 4 thousand brands of imitation. What the original taught is still available to us. Is the imitation better, or is the original better?

I've had factory repair shops really screw up my car and charge out the nose to do it.

Problem is, the only record we have of the Son is... the religion. Because even the NT is a direct product of the religion.

 

[MikeSavage]

That analogy breaks down because there are many car factories and manufacturers. Which is the "true" car manufacturer, which is the authentic and best? Naturally they would all make that claim.

The story does not break down because it's not about cars, it's about imitation versus original.

That is exactly what you have been claiming all the way through. Your way is the only true way. Funny how people from all sorts of religions make that very same claim.

What I have claiimed, or rather stated, is that God's way is the only way. Religion is Satan's way. God's viewpoint on the matter.

 

[MikeSavage]

I've had factory repair shops really screw up my car and charge out the nose to do it.

Problem is, the only record we have of the Son is... the religion. Because even the NT is a direct product of the religion.

Certainly not . We have many records of Jesus' life and ministry. Factory repairs aren't the issue. Original versus imitations, copies is the issue. Either you choose God or you choose religion. Your choice.

 

[sojourner]

As I believe I indicated previously, what you call Christians, are actually not. They are Christendom. They stem from divergences from the original "one true faith" that Jesus taught in his three ministries on Earth. He called it the one true faith. Religions, all of which are made up by men, claiim, falsely, to be Christian. They are in fact about half pagan, half Christian in their beliefs and actions. Jesus warned the world about them, and said they were "works of the flesh". Revelation to John says they will all be destroyed along with their members. All other religions, not claiming to be Christian are false as well. The only people on Earth practicing what Jesus taught are Christian, no one else. Those of Christendom, if they adhered to the scriptures, would NEVER behave so abhorrently. We are admonished to love our neighbors as ourselves. To treat all with love and respect. No member of Christendom does that. No church or religion teaches doing the entire will of God, nor do they strictly teach the scriptures. They teach their own beliefs, and they differ in small and large ways from the scriptures. They also all teach things that differ from all other religions. Now, no true, real Christian would ever "fight" homosexuality. Jesus said he loved all men, no matter what they do. He said he hated their actions, not the men themselves. As a Christian, a real one, I do not tell anyone what to think, believe, or do. I simply show them what the scriptures, and therfore what God says about any subject in question, such as homosexuality. It's ones choice how to behave, what to do, and what to believe. However, not adhering to God's will has it's consequences. I do tell others what those consequences are, but still, it's their choice to choose God, or His opponent, Satan. There are only the two choices. Not choosing God, is to choose Satan. Not choosing God, means they aren't written in what the scriptures call "the scroll of life". Those in that scroll will be protected in the final battlle, and have eternal (not immortal) life to look forward to. And if they die, they have a resurrection promised to them. If they're not in the scroll, then the here and now is their only reward.

I hope this sheds a little light on your question.

What a load of utter malarkey. You should be on the comedy circuit.

 

[sojourner]

Certainly not . We have many records of Jesus' life and ministry. Factory repairs aren't the issue. Original versus imitations, copies is the issue. Either you choose God or you choose religion. Your choice.

There is nothing outside the church. The historic, canonical and non-canonical texts produced by the church are the only record we have. All other records (outside a brief and debated mention by Josephus) are based in the texts or on church oral tradition. there is no way to have any substantial information about Jesus without the church.

Produce the originals (that, btw) don't exist, and we'll talk.

 

[MikeSavage]

There is nothing outside the church. The historic, canonical and non-canonical texts produced by the church are the only record we have. All other records (outside a brief and debated mention by Josephus) are based in the texts or on church oral tradition. there is no way to have any substantial information about Jesus without the church.

Produce the originals (that, btw) don't exist, and we'll talk.

So you choose Satan. Why didn't you say so in the first place?