The Prophet (s) and Imams (a) stated Mohammad (s) is the final Nabi.

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Sermon 234: May my father and my mother shed their lives for you…​

Spoken when Amir al-mu'minin was busy in the funeral ablution (ghusl) of the Holy Prophet and shrouding him

ومن كلام له (عليه السلام)

قاله وهو يلي غسل رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله) وتجهيزه

May my father and my mother shed their lives for you. O Messenger of Allah! With your death the process of prophethood, revelation and heavenly messages has stopped, which had not stopped at the death of others (prophets). Your position with us (members of your family) is so special that your grief has become a source of consolation (to us) as against the grief of all others; your grief is also common so that all Muslims share it equally.
If you had not ordered endurance and prevented us from bewailing, we would have produced a store of tears and even then the pain would not have subsided, and this grief would not have ended, and they would have been too little of our grief for you. But this (death) is a matter that cannot be reversed nor is it possible to repulse it. May my father and my mother die for you; do remember us with Allah and take care of us.

بِأَبِي أَنْتَ وأُمِّي، لَقَدِ انْقَطَعَ بِمَوْتِكَ مَا لَمْ يَنْقَطِعْ بِمَوْتِ غَيْرِكَ مِنَ النُّبُوَّةِ وَالاْنْبَاءِ وأَخْبَارِ السَّماءِ، خَصَصْتَ حَتَّى صِرْتَ مُسَلِّياً عَمَّنْ سِوَاكَ، وَعَمَمْتَ حَتّى صَارَ النَّاسُ فِيكَ سَواءً، وَلَوْ لاَ أَنَّكَ أَمَرْتَ بِالصَّبْرِ، وَنَهَيْتَ عَنِ الْجَزَعِ، لاَنْفَدْنَا عَلَيْكَ مَاءَ الشُّؤُونِ، وَلَكَانَ الدَّاءُ مُمَاطِلاً، وَالْكَمَدُ مُحَالِفاً، وَقَلاَّ لَكَ! وَلكِنَّهُ مَا لاَ يُمْلَكُ رَدُّهُ، وَلاَ يُسْتَطَاعُ دَفْعُهُ!

بِأَبِي أَنْتَ وَأُمّي! اذْكُرْنَا عِنْدَ رَبِّكَ، وَاجْعَلْنَا مِنْ بَالِكَ!

Alternative Sources for Sermon 234​

(1) Al-Mufid, al-'Amali, 60;
(2) Ibn al-'Athir, al-Nihayah, III, 143 (t.y.b);
(3) Muhammad ibn Habib, al-'Amali, 112;
(4) Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Musnad, hadith 228;
(5) Ibn Hisham, al-Sirat al-Nabawiyyah, IV, 213;
(6) al-Baladhuri, Ansab, I, 571;
(7) Abu Ishaq Ibrahim ibn al-Sari ibn Sahl al-Nahwi, al-'Amali;
For (3) & (4) see ‘Abd al-Zahra', III, 182.

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[stvdv]

There will forever and always be wonderful semi-divine peoples to lead humanity.

That I believe also

I am amazed that people of a certain religions need their Prophet to be the Last, the best, and the final or whatever

This is called "Arrogance" or also "Superiority Complex", which the world has experienced during Hitler's "Arian race is Superior". Not a good and noble quality.

It's the most dangerous poison on earth. Hindu Scriptures warn us for this stating:
The biggest obstacle on the Spiritual Path is 'having spiritual arrogance', normal worldly arrogance is a known obstacle, but it's nothing compared to spiritual ego.
Even God can't cure you of that.

I have seen this on RF, that this is indeed a fact; sadly so many believe their Religion and Prophets are Superior

 

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https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-91-praise-belongs-god-who

ولَمْ يُخْلِهِمْ بَعْدَ أَنْ قَبَضَهُ، مِمَّا يُؤَكِّدُ عَلَيْهِمْ حُجَّةَ رُبُوبِيَّتِهَ، وَيَصِلُ بَيْنَهُمْ وَبَيْنَ مَعْرِفَتِهِ، بَلْ تَعَاهَدَهُمْ بَالْحُجَجِ عَلَى أَلْسُنِ الْخِيَرَةِ مِنْ أَنْبِيَائِهِ، وَمُتَحَمِّلِي وَدَائِعِ رِسَالاَتِهِ، قَرْناً فَقَرْناً; حَتَّى تَمَّتْ بِنَبِيِّنَا مُحَمَّد (صلى الله عليه وآله) حُجَّتُهُ، وَبَلَغَ الْمَقْطَعَ عُذْرُهُ وَنُذُرُهُ،

 

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It's a long sermon, a very good one, but thought I would quote the relevant part saying Allah (swt) sent Prophets until he completed with Mohammad (s) the proof and his warnings and advices (to mankind) came to an end.

came to end with our Prophet Muhammad - Allah may bless him and his descendants - and His pleas and warnings reached finality/cut off.

 

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، وَخَتَمَ بِهِ الْوَحْيَ

sealed with him the revelations

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Muhammad ibn Ahmad ibn Al-Husayn ibn Yusuf al-Baghdadi narrated that Ali ibn Muhammad ibn Anbasa quoted on the authority of Al-Hassan ibn Soleiman al-Malti in the place of martyrdom of Ali ibn Abi Talib (ع), on the authority of Muhammad ibn Al-Qasim ibn Al-Abbas ibn Musa al-Alawi in Ibn Hobayras palace, and Darim ibn Qabaysa ibn Nahshal an-Nahshali that Ali ibn Musa ibn Jafar (ع) quoted on the authority of his father (ع), on the authority of his forefathers (ع), on the authority of Ali ibn Abi Talib (ع) that Gods Prophet (S) said, “O Ali I asked God for you whatever I asked Him for myself, except for Prophethood since God has said, There will be no Prophets after you....

 

[InvestigateTruth]

، وَخَتَمَ بِهِ الْوَحْيَ

sealed with him the revelations

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If Muhammad and Imams wanted to say, that, the Revelation of Quran is completed, and thus there won't be any Revelations, and No need for another prophet after Muhammad, for another 1000 years, how should they have said that, so, people may not misunderstand and think He meant, the Revelation ended forever?

 

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If Muhammad and Imams wanted to say, that, the Revelation of Quran is completed, and thus there won't be any Revelations, and No need for another prophet after Muhammad, for another 1000 years, how should they have said that, so, people may not misunderstand and think He meant, the Revelation ended forever?

I will give an example, instead of saying "except there is no Prophet after me", Mohammad (s) would have said "except there is no Prophet after me till the Mahdi".

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I will give an example, instead of saying "except there is no Prophet after me", Mohammad (s) would have said "except there is no Prophet after me till the Mahdi".

But firstly shouldn’t one go with the Quran. Not with Hadith?

Muhammad left Quran and Ahlulbayt as two weighty things for followers.
Ahlulbayt are not longer among people.
Then you are left with the Quran alone. Where does Hadith come from then?

 

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But firstly shouldn’t one go with the Quran. Not with Hadith?

Muhammad left Quran and Ahlulbayt as two weighty things for followers.
Ahlulbayt are not longer among people.
Then you are left with the Quran alone. Where does Hadith come from then?

Salam

No, you go with both.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Salam

No, you go with both.

You can go with both as you wish. We are discussing logically and you do not address the point I am making.

When did Allah tell you to go with both.

Allah said Obey God and His messenger.

His Messenger passed away. The Imams after Him are no longer available either.
So, you are left with obeying Allah. And you do not have access directly to see what Allah wants from you, except the Quarn.
What am I missing here?

The thing is, you are just following in the footstep of your sect. Since the Shia sect have been doing this way for many years, you simply follow that, and are fanatical, yet, you cannot prove your way is correct with Quran.

So, again, when did Allah say follow the Hadithes?
I am surprised, you never consider, maybe, just maybe, we went the wrong way.

 

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So, again, when did Allah say follow the Hadithes?

It would be impossible to do Salah, without hadiths. Since God orders us to do Salah, this is an example of him wanting us to fill the details with hadith.

 

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So, again, when did Allah say follow the Hadithes?

Allah (swt) to you doesn't even say there is day of judgment like believers believe. Nor that Angels (a) are not humans. Nor that Satan (Iblis) is a real living entity.

How can I prove to you anything in Quran? You decontextualize language and make things impossible to prove.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

It would be impossible to do Salah, without hadiths. Since God orders us to do Salah, this is an example of him wanting us to fill the details with hadith.

I agree. I am not saying never use a Hadith.
I am saying the Guide is the Quran.
But as for example the Quran says, do the regular prayer, now, if you do not know how it is done, then, you can go and use Hadithes to understand Quran better.
So, the starting point is always the verses of the Quran. The starting point ie never the Hadith.
Some verses require to know what they were revealed for and what was the situation or historical context of revelations. It is then, we go and find the relevant Hadithes related to that Event, and interpretation.
But we don't just quote, a Hadith out of context. We shouldn't just quote Hadithes without in relation to the Verses.

So, now we start from the Quran. Where does it say, there will not be any more Prophets after Muhammad?

Muslims say, it is the verse 33:40.

I ask, what was this verse revealed for? What was the historical context? Were they asking prophet if there will be more prophet after Him and then He revealed this verse?

To answer this question, now, we can look and see if there are Hadithes that explain why this verse was revealed.
We shouldn’t just use our imagination to make up tafseer. It will be ظن (assumption about what God meant).

For example here is an explanation of the circumstances the verse was revealed:

أحاديث أم المؤمنين عائشة - العسكري، السيد مرتضى - کتابخانه مدرسه فقاهت

lib.eshia.ir

So, I have not found any verse in the Quran that actually says, there is no Prophet after Muhammad.

But, when I see the Quran as a whole, I agree that, the Message of Quran is that, there will not be any Prophet or Messenger or Revelation until Day of Resurrection.

If God wanted to say, before Day of Resurrection, a Prophet or Messenger comes that we must believe in Him, He would have said so.

 

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So, now we start from the Quran. Where does it say, there will not be any more Prophets after Muhammad?

This thread is not about that. You are changing the subject. This thread is about hadiths saying this.

 

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But as for example the Quran says, do the regular prayer, now, if you do not know how it is then, you go ans use Hadithes to understand Quran better.

The Quran doesn't talk about government and functions in detail. The document of Imam Ali (a) to Malikal Asthar is much more detailed and useful in this regard.

Yet Quran says God commands to justice. If Imams (a) didn't explain how to govern justly, Islam would be incomplete. So hadiths is not just about understanding Quranic verses.

The Quran says to ask the family of the reminder if we don't know. This includes asking for signs in form of miracles (context in Surah Anbiya) as well as explanation to what is revealed (Surah Nahl contex) also anything we don't know.

Also all the hadiths stating Mohammad (s) is final Nabi imply that it's stated in the Quran. They don't have quote the verse to be a commentary on it.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

The Quran doesn't talk about government and functions in detail. The document of Imam Ali (a) to Malikal Asthar is much more detailed and useful in this regard.

That is where the problem.

why do you neeed to even know document of Imam Ali to Malik Ashtar?

this is something about 1400 years ago.
People at that time needed the guidance from Ali, because the Prophet left two things, Quran and Ahlulbayt.

today, you do not have Ahlulbayt anymore. They are not among you. You are only left with the Quran. That's it.

Yet Quran says God commands to justice. If Imams (a) didn't explain how to govern justly, Islam would be incomplete. So hadiths is not just about understanding Quranic verses.

The Quran says to ask the family of the reminder if we don't know. This includes asking for signs in form of miracles (context in Surah Anbiya) as well as explanation to what is revealed (Surah Nahl contex) also anything we don't know.

The hadithes are not to add anything to the Quran.

Quran has all the details.

You may use them to understand the verses of the Quran. They do not add anything to the Quran.

Also all the hadiths stating Mohammad (s) is final Nabi imply that it's stated in the Quran. They don't have quote the verse to be a commentary on it.

You cannot make this conclusion.
Because then, anyone can to justify a false Hadith say, since this Hadith exist, it implies that, it is also stated in the Quran.
You see the problem?

Nope, the instruction prophet gave is to always read and follow the Quran. If Ahlulbayt were still among you, then you were to obey them. But since they are not, you only have the Quran. Hadith has no Authority. If one has trouble understanding a verse, a good way to search in Hadithes, being from Sunni or Shia sources. Hadith at best may help one to understand why a verse was revealed.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

This thread is not about that. You are changing the subject. This thread is about hadiths saying this.

Nope, I am saying your method is incorrect. First quote a verse that says, after Muhammad there will not be any prophet. Then of the verse is not clear, to farther explain the verse and shed light on it, bring some Hadithes that specifically are to explain that verse.

This is the proper way. Otherwise, of course, Ummahs before you, also, firmly believe their Religion is the last.

 

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Hadith has no Authority.

There is no proof of this in neither Quran nor hadiths, so you are making things up.

 

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Quran has all the details.

Not in an explicit way.