The Prophet (s) did not say I am leaving Quran and Ahlulbayt till Hassan Al-Askari (a) dies. Sorry. You make things up.
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The Prophet (s) and Imams (a) stated Mohammad (s) is the final Nabi.
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Part of relying on God is his guidance and part of relying on God per Quran is to ask the family of the reminder. To query them. This document shows how to establish a just society and government.
I'm not aware of the details established in this document anywhere else and guidance from God is needed pertaining to all things. The Quran doesn't go details on how to govern.
firedragon
Veteran Member
The following is from Sahiffa Sajjadiya (the 2nd Du'a):
وَالْحَمْدُ للهِ الَّذِي مَنَّ عَلَيْنَا
wal-h'am-du lil-laahil-lad'ee man-na a'lay-naa
1. Praise belongs to God who was kind to us
بِمُحَمَّدٍ نَبِيِّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَ آلِهِ
bimuh'am-madin-nabee-yihee s'al-laal-laahoo a'layhee wa aaalihee
2. through Muhammad, His Prophet (God bless him and his Household)
دُونَ ٱلْاُمَمِ ٱلْمَاضِيَةِ وَٱلْقُـرُونِ السَّالِفَةِ
doonal-umamil-maaz''eeati wal-quroonis-saalifah
3. to the exclusion of past communities and bygone generations,
بِقُدْرَتِهِ الَّتِي لَا تَعْجِزُ عَنْ شَيْءٍ وَ إِنْ عَظُمَ
biqud-ratihil-latee laa taa'-jizu a'n shay-iw-wa in a'z'um
4. displaying thereby His power, which nothing can render incapable though it be great,
وَ لا يَفُوتُهَا شَيءٌ وَإنْ لَطُفَ،
wa laa yafootuhaa shay-oo-wa il-lat'uf
5. and nothing can escape though it be subtle.
فَخَتَمَ بِنَاعَلَى جَمِيع مَنْ ذَرَأَ
fakhatama binaa a'laa jameei' man d'araa
6. He sealed through us all He created,
وَ جَعَلَنَا شُهَدَاءَ عَلَى مَنْ جَحَدَ
wa jaa'lanaa shuhadaaa-a a'laa man jah'ad
7. appointed us witnesses over those who deny,
وَكَثَّرَنا بِمَنِّهِ عَلَى مَنْ قَلَّ
wa kath-tharanaa biman-nihee a'laa man qal
8. and increased us by His kindness over those who are few.
اللَّهُمَّ فَصَلِّ عَلَى مُحَمَّدٍ أَمِينِكَ عَلَى وَحْيِكَ
al-laahum-ma fas'al-li a'laa muh'am-mad ameenika a'laa wah'-yik
9. O God, bless Muhammad, entrusted by You with Your revelation,
وَنَجِيبِكَ مِنْ خَلْقِكَ
wa najeebika min khal-qik
10. distinguished by You among Your creatures,
وَالْحَمْدُ للهِ الَّذِي مَنَّ عَلَيْنَا
wal-h'am-du lil-laahil-lad'ee man-na a'lay-naa
1. Praise belongs to God who was kind to us
بِمُحَمَّدٍ نَبِيِّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَ آلِهِ
bimuh'am-madin-nabee-yihee s'al-laal-laahoo a'layhee wa aaalihee
2. through Muhammad, His Prophet (God bless him and his Household)
دُونَ ٱلْاُمَمِ ٱلْمَاضِيَةِ وَٱلْقُـرُونِ السَّالِفَةِ
doonal-umamil-maaz''eeati wal-quroonis-saalifah
3. to the exclusion of past communities and bygone generations,
بِقُدْرَتِهِ الَّتِي لَا تَعْجِزُ عَنْ شَيْءٍ وَ إِنْ عَظُمَ
biqud-ratihil-latee laa taa'-jizu a'n shay-iw-wa in a'z'um
4. displaying thereby His power, which nothing can render incapable though it be great,
وَ لا يَفُوتُهَا شَيءٌ وَإنْ لَطُفَ،
wa laa yafootuhaa shay-oo-wa il-lat'uf
5. and nothing can escape though it be subtle.
فَخَتَمَ بِنَاعَلَى جَمِيع مَنْ ذَرَأَ
fakhatama binaa a'laa jameei' man d'araa
6. He sealed through us all He created,
وَ جَعَلَنَا شُهَدَاءَ عَلَى مَنْ جَحَدَ
wa jaa'lanaa shuhadaaa-a a'laa man jah'ad
7. appointed us witnesses over those who deny,
وَكَثَّرَنا بِمَنِّهِ عَلَى مَنْ قَلَّ
wa kath-tharanaa biman-nihee a'laa man qal
8. and increased us by His kindness over those who are few.
اللَّهُمَّ فَصَلِّ عَلَى مُحَمَّدٍ أَمِينِكَ عَلَى وَحْيِكَ
al-laahum-ma fas'al-li a'laa muh'am-mad ameenika a'laa wah'-yik
9. O God, bless Muhammad, entrusted by You with Your revelation,
وَنَجِيبِكَ مِنْ خَلْقِكَ
wa najeebika min khal-qik
10. distinguished by You among Your creatures,
This is not the only chain and Abu Huraira is not the only narrator. I found this in tafsir Al-Mizan:
وفي المجمع في قوله تعالى { ولكن رسول الله وخاتم النبيين } وصح الحديث عن جابر بن عبد الله عن النبي صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم قال " إنما مثلي في الأنبياء كمثل رجل بنى داراً فأكملها وحسنها إلا موضع لبنة، فكان من دخلها ونظر إليها فقال ما أحسنها إلا موضع هذه اللبنة. قال صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم فأنا موضع اللبنة ختم بي الأنبياء " ، أورده البخاري ومسلم في صحيحيهما. أقول وروى هذا المعنى غيرهما كالترمذي والنسائي وأحمد وابن مردويه عن غير جابر كأبي سعيد وأبي هريرة. وفي الدر المنثور
So the hadith has a lot of narrators, Bukhari is also just one of many sources for this hadith (it's found in Muslim, Tirmidi, Nisa, Ahmad, etc), and the Shia chain goes through Jaber ibn Abdullah.
The place of Haroun (a) to Musa (a) analogy to Ali (a) to Mohammad (s) hadith has many Sunni chains and Shia as well. The following is from a Shia apologist (may God have mercy on his soul and reward his efforts) about the Sunni chains and variations of it:
The reply is: This hadith is authentic in the two Sahihs without any doubt, and in other books too.1
This is one of the very few, miraculous instances when our Shaykh submits to the truth about the authenticity of a pro-‘Ali hadith! As he has conceded, the hadith is certainly sahih. Imam Muslim (d. 261 H) too recorded it in his Sahih in confirmation of this:
The Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, said to ‘Ali: “You are to me of the status of Harun to Musa, except that there is no prophet after me.”2
Imam Ahmad (d. 241 H) as well documents:
The Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, said to ‘Ali: “You are to me of the status of Harun to Musa, except that there is no prophet after me.”3
Shaykh al-Arnaut comments:
Hadith Al-Manzilah, the Golden Hadith
Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah (d. 728 H) states:The Rafidhi said: The third (point) is his statement (to ‘Ali), “You are to me of the status of Harun to Musa, except that there is no prophet after me.”....
The reply is: This hadith is authentic in the two Sahihs without any doubt, and in other books too.1
This is one of the very few, miraculous instances when our Shaykh submits to the truth about the authenticity of a pro-‘Ali hadith! As he has conceded, the hadith is certainly sahih. Imam Muslim (d. 261 H) too recorded it in his Sahih in confirmation of this:
Yahya b. Yahya al-Tamimi, Abu Ja’far Muhammad b. al-Sabah, ‘Ubayd Allah al-Qawariri and Surayj b. Yunus – Yunus b. al-Majishun – Yusuf Abu Salamah al-Majishun – Muhammad b. al-Munkadar – Sa’id b. al-Musayyab – ‘Amir b. Sa’d b. Abi Waqqas – his father (Sa’d b. Abi Waqqas):
The Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, said to ‘Ali: “You are to me of the status of Harun to Musa, except that there is no prophet after me.”2
Imam Ahmad (d. 241 H) as well documents:
‘Abd Allah (b. Ahmad) – my father (Ahmad b. Hanbal) – Yahya b. Sa’id – Musa al-Juhani – Fatimah bint ‘Ali – Asma bint ‘Umays:
The Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, said to ‘Ali: “You are to me of the status of Harun to Musa, except that there is no prophet after me.”3
Shaykh al-Arnaut comments:
Its chain is sahih4
We need not extend our research on the authenticity of the hadith, since there is no denial of it. So, we will simply cap the above with these words of Imam al-Kattani (d. 1345 H) about the hadith:
So, does Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah accept that Amir al-Muminin, ‘alaihi al-salam, was to Prophet Muhammad, sallallahu ‘alaihi wa alihi, of the status of Prophet Harun, ‘alaihi al-salam, to Prophet Musa, ‘alaihi al-salam? Of course, he does! However, he has limited the circumstance and the scope to just a one-off event:
In summary, it is well-known that he (the Prophet) never left Madinah without appointing a khalifah over it. Muslims have mentioned those whom he appointed as khalifahs. He made journeys out of Madinah during two ‘Umrahs – ‘Umrah al-Hudaybiyyah and ‘Umrah al-Qadha – and during the Farewell Hajj, as well as in more than twenty battles.
On all of them (i.e. these occasions), he appointed khalifahs and there used to be several men in Madinah (on all these occasions) over whom the khalifah was given authority. However, during the battle of Tabuk, he (the Prophet) did not permit anyone to stay behind from it (i.e. the battle). It was his last battle, peace be upon him, and he never conscripted (for any battle) as he conscripted for it (i.e. Tabuk). Therefore, none was left (in Madinah) except women, children, those who were exempted due to inability, hypocrites, and three men who (later) repented.
There were no believing men in Madinah over whom to appoint a khalifah (during Tabuk), unlike the case on all other occasions. Rather, this appointment (of ‘Ali) as khalifah was inferior to the other, several khilafah appointments, because there were no strong believing men in Madinah (during Tabuk) over whom he (the Prophet) could have placed (‘Ali as) a khalifah, unlike the case in all his (the Prophet’s) other battles.6
Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah obviously interprets the hadith as referring solely to Amir al-Muminin’s khilafah over Madinah during the battle of Tabuk. So, he was like Harun to Musa only for the duration of the battle. Once the battle ended, and the Messenger took over control of Madinah once again, ‘Ali ceased to be his Harun.
In the simplest terms, in the view of our Shaykh, the status of Imam ‘Ali as the Harun of Prophet Muhammad was temporary and shortlived and never extended beyond the Battle of Tabuk. Moreover, it was limited exclusively to ‘Ali’s governorate of Madinah while the battle lasted. It is very apparent that our Shaykh considers Hadith al-Manzilah to be specifically linked with the words of Musa in this verse:
Explaining the connection, Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah says:
This logic of Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah suggests that all the governors of Madinah during the Prophet’s numerous absences were like Harun too. Therefore, it was not a merit at all for ‘Ali, much less an exclusive one! In fact, the khilafah of Amir al-Muminin was the most “inferior” of all, as submitted by our Shaykh! After all, his governorate was only over women, children, mutineers and hypocrites. By contrast, all the other governors had ruled over believers among the men and the women. It is at this point that things get really messy.
Khilafah can be temporary, permanent, restricted or total, depending on the circumstances. There is no doubt that the khilafah of Amir al-Muminin during Tabuk was both temporary and restricted. He was the governor of Madinah only, and not of the entire Islamic state. What Imam ‘Ali controlled during that time was merely a small percentage of the Ummah of Muhammad. By contrast, the khilafah of Prophet Harun was total. He was the khalifah of Prophet Musa over the entirety of “his people”. Therefore, there was simply no connection or comparison between the two khilafahs. Meanwhile, the Messenger of Allah specifically mentioned that ‘Ali was exactly like Harun!
In fact, the Prophet further specifically explained the khilafah component of the Harun-‘Ali comparison in a way that knocks out Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah! Ibn Abi ‘Asim (d. 287 H) records:
Dr. Al-Jawabirah says:
‘Allamah al-Albani agrees:
Ibn Asakir investigated its chains in a volume, and the number of the Sahabah who narrated it (in his research) reached more than twenty. In Sharh al-Risalah of Shaykh Jasus, may Allah be merciful to him, he states: “And the hadith ‘You are to me of the status of Harun to Musa’ is mutawatir. It has been narrated by more than twenty Sahabah.”5
So, does Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah accept that Amir al-Muminin, ‘alaihi al-salam, was to Prophet Muhammad, sallallahu ‘alaihi wa alihi, of the status of Prophet Harun, ‘alaihi al-salam, to Prophet Musa, ‘alaihi al-salam? Of course, he does! However, he has limited the circumstance and the scope to just a one-off event:
The Prophet, peace be upon him, said it (i.e. the hadith) to him (i.e. ‘Ali) during the Battle of Tabuk. Meanwhile, whenever he (the Prophet) made a journey for battle, or for ‘Umrah or Hajj, he used to make one of the Sahabah his khalifah over Madinah....
In summary, it is well-known that he (the Prophet) never left Madinah without appointing a khalifah over it. Muslims have mentioned those whom he appointed as khalifahs. He made journeys out of Madinah during two ‘Umrahs – ‘Umrah al-Hudaybiyyah and ‘Umrah al-Qadha – and during the Farewell Hajj, as well as in more than twenty battles.
On all of them (i.e. these occasions), he appointed khalifahs and there used to be several men in Madinah (on all these occasions) over whom the khalifah was given authority. However, during the battle of Tabuk, he (the Prophet) did not permit anyone to stay behind from it (i.e. the battle). It was his last battle, peace be upon him, and he never conscripted (for any battle) as he conscripted for it (i.e. Tabuk). Therefore, none was left (in Madinah) except women, children, those who were exempted due to inability, hypocrites, and three men who (later) repented.
There were no believing men in Madinah over whom to appoint a khalifah (during Tabuk), unlike the case on all other occasions. Rather, this appointment (of ‘Ali) as khalifah was inferior to the other, several khilafah appointments, because there were no strong believing men in Madinah (during Tabuk) over whom he (the Prophet) could have placed (‘Ali as) a khalifah, unlike the case in all his (the Prophet’s) other battles.6
Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah obviously interprets the hadith as referring solely to Amir al-Muminin’s khilafah over Madinah during the battle of Tabuk. So, he was like Harun to Musa only for the duration of the battle. Once the battle ended, and the Messenger took over control of Madinah once again, ‘Ali ceased to be his Harun.
In the simplest terms, in the view of our Shaykh, the status of Imam ‘Ali as the Harun of Prophet Muhammad was temporary and shortlived and never extended beyond the Battle of Tabuk. Moreover, it was limited exclusively to ‘Ali’s governorate of Madinah while the battle lasted. It is very apparent that our Shaykh considers Hadith al-Manzilah to be specifically linked with the words of Musa in this verse:
Musa said to his brother, Harun: “Be my khalifah over my people.”7
Explaining the connection, Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah says:
It is said that some hypocrites condemned him (i.e. ‘Ali), and said that he (the Prophet) only made him (i.e. ‘Ali) a khalifah because he (the Prophet) hated him (i.e. ‘Ali). So, the Prophet, peace be upon him, explained to him, saying: “I have only made you a khalifah due to my trust in you, and that khilafah is neither a belittling step nor a demotion, for Musa appointed Harun as his khalifah over his people. How then could that have been a belittling step, while Musa did it with Harun?” Through that the mind of ‘Ali became clear.8
This logic of Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah suggests that all the governors of Madinah during the Prophet’s numerous absences were like Harun too. Therefore, it was not a merit at all for ‘Ali, much less an exclusive one! In fact, the khilafah of Amir al-Muminin was the most “inferior” of all, as submitted by our Shaykh! After all, his governorate was only over women, children, mutineers and hypocrites. By contrast, all the other governors had ruled over believers among the men and the women. It is at this point that things get really messy.
Khilafah can be temporary, permanent, restricted or total, depending on the circumstances. There is no doubt that the khilafah of Amir al-Muminin during Tabuk was both temporary and restricted. He was the governor of Madinah only, and not of the entire Islamic state. What Imam ‘Ali controlled during that time was merely a small percentage of the Ummah of Muhammad. By contrast, the khilafah of Prophet Harun was total. He was the khalifah of Prophet Musa over the entirety of “his people”. Therefore, there was simply no connection or comparison between the two khilafahs. Meanwhile, the Messenger of Allah specifically mentioned that ‘Ali was exactly like Harun!
In fact, the Prophet further specifically explained the khilafah component of the Harun-‘Ali comparison in a way that knocks out Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah! Ibn Abi ‘Asim (d. 287 H) records:
Muhammad b. al-Muthanna – Yahya b. Hammad – Abu ‘Awanah – Yahya b. Sulaym Abu Balj – ‘Amr b. Maymun – Ibn ‘Abbas: The Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, said to ‘Ali: “You are to me of the status of Harun to Musa, with the exception that you are not a prophet. And you are my khalifah over EVERY BELIEVER after me.”9
Dr. Al-Jawabirah says:
Its chain is hasan.10
‘Allamah al-Albani agrees:
Its chain is hasan.11
Of course, the khilafah of Harun too was over the entirety of Musa’s Ummah, and the same thing was intended for ‘Ali in this hadith! The Messenger of Allah was announcing him as the khalifah over all believers – in exactly the same way that Harun was – in any case of total absence of Muhammad from his Ummah – as Musa did.
Meanwhile, although Prophet Musa was able to keep away from his entire Ummah during his lifetime, the Messenger of Allah was unable to do that except through death. This apparently explains why he mentioned “after me” with the khilafah. It is also solely in this context that the phrase “except that there will be no prophet after me” makes any sense. If the Prophet had intended Hadith al-Manzilah to be limited to the duration of Tabuk only, on what logical basis would he have added those two expressions?
What is more? The Messenger of Allah never restricted the comparison between Harun and ‘Ali to mere khilafah, to begin with! ‘Allamah al-Albani, for instance, states:
Verily, ‘Ali, may Allah be pleased with him, WENT OUT WITH THE PROPHET, peace be upon him, UNTIL HE (THE PROPHET) REACHED THANIYYAH AL-WADA’, and ‘Ali, may Allah be pleased with him, was weeping, saying: “You are leaving me behind with the women and children?” So, he (the Prophet) replied, “Are you not pleased that you are to me of the status of Harun to Musa EXCEPT PROPHETHOOD?”
I say: This chain is sahih upon the standard of al-Bukhari.12
Shaykh al-Arnaut agrees with him about the same hadith:
In other words, all the components of Harun’s status to Musa were present in ‘Ali too. The only exception was that Harun was a co-prophet with Musa while ‘Ali was not a prophet at all. Needless to say, Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah’s restriction of the comparison to khilafah contradicts this authentic Sunnah! Amir al-Muminin was to the Prophet everything that Harun was to Musa with the sole exception of co-prophethood.
What further kills our Shaykh’s attempted diversion is the fact that the Messenger of Allah repeated that hadith to Imam ‘Ali outside the context or period of Tabuk! In the last hadith above, we read that ‘Ali went out of Madinah with the Prophet during Tabuk, till the Muslim army reached Thaniyyah al-Wada’. It was there that the Messenger mentioned the hadith to him. There were no women around. The women and children were all in Madinah, while only men were in the army at Thaniyyah al-Wada’. In the light of this, let us examine this hadith documented by Imam Ahmad:
I HEARD the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, saying, “O ‘Ali! You are to me of the status of Harun to Musa, except that there is no prophet after me.”14
Al-Arnaut comments:
Apparently, Asma (a wife of Abu Bakr) did not “hear” this hadith at Thaniyyah al-Wada’. She certainly must have heard it inside Madinah, either before or after Tabuk. This fact alone completely defeats all of Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah’s efforts at reinterpreting Hadith al-Manzilah out of its intended purpose. Meanwhile, things get really much worse for him with Ibn ‘Abbas’ claim, radhiyallahu ‘anhu, that the “merit” in the hadith belonged exclusively to ‘Ali! Imam al-Hakim (d. 403 H) records:
.... They are attacking a man who has ten EXCLUSIVE merits.... The Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, went out for the battle of Tabuk, and the people went out with him. So, ‘Ali said to him, “Let me go out with you.” Therefore, the Prophet, peace be upon him, said, “Do not weep, ‘Ali. Are you not pleased that you are to me of the status of Harun to Musa, with the exception that there is no prophet after me? Verily, it is not right that I depart except with you as my khalifah.”16
Al-Hakim says:
Al-Dhahabi (d. 748 H) backs him:
Was ‘Ali then the only governor ever appointed over Madinah during the Prophet’s lifetime?! Obviously, the hadith is very, very far from what Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah claims!
There also many Shia narrations of it.
Meanwhile, although Prophet Musa was able to keep away from his entire Ummah during his lifetime, the Messenger of Allah was unable to do that except through death. This apparently explains why he mentioned “after me” with the khilafah. It is also solely in this context that the phrase “except that there will be no prophet after me” makes any sense. If the Prophet had intended Hadith al-Manzilah to be limited to the duration of Tabuk only, on what logical basis would he have added those two expressions?
What is more? The Messenger of Allah never restricted the comparison between Harun and ‘Ali to mere khilafah, to begin with! ‘Allamah al-Albani, for instance, states:
Ahmad recorded it in al-Musnad (1/170): Abu Sa’id, freed slave of Banu Hashim – Sulayman b. Bilal – al-Ja’id b. ‘Abd al-Rahman – ‘Aishah bint Sa’d – her father:
Verily, ‘Ali, may Allah be pleased with him, WENT OUT WITH THE PROPHET, peace be upon him, UNTIL HE (THE PROPHET) REACHED THANIYYAH AL-WADA’, and ‘Ali, may Allah be pleased with him, was weeping, saying: “You are leaving me behind with the women and children?” So, he (the Prophet) replied, “Are you not pleased that you are to me of the status of Harun to Musa EXCEPT PROPHETHOOD?”
I say: This chain is sahih upon the standard of al-Bukhari.12
Shaykh al-Arnaut agrees with him about the same hadith:
Its chain is sahih upon the standard of al-Bukhari.13
In other words, all the components of Harun’s status to Musa were present in ‘Ali too. The only exception was that Harun was a co-prophet with Musa while ‘Ali was not a prophet at all. Needless to say, Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah’s restriction of the comparison to khilafah contradicts this authentic Sunnah! Amir al-Muminin was to the Prophet everything that Harun was to Musa with the sole exception of co-prophethood.
What further kills our Shaykh’s attempted diversion is the fact that the Messenger of Allah repeated that hadith to Imam ‘Ali outside the context or period of Tabuk! In the last hadith above, we read that ‘Ali went out of Madinah with the Prophet during Tabuk, till the Muslim army reached Thaniyyah al-Wada’. It was there that the Messenger mentioned the hadith to him. There were no women around. The women and children were all in Madinah, while only men were in the army at Thaniyyah al-Wada’. In the light of this, let us examine this hadith documented by Imam Ahmad:
‘Abd Allah (b. Ahmad) – my father (Ahmad b. Hanbal) – ‘Abd Allah b. Numayr – Musa al-Juhani – Fatimah bint ‘Ali – Asma bint ‘Umays:
I HEARD the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, saying, “O ‘Ali! You are to me of the status of Harun to Musa, except that there is no prophet after me.”14
Al-Arnaut comments:
Its chain is sahih15
Apparently, Asma (a wife of Abu Bakr) did not “hear” this hadith at Thaniyyah al-Wada’. She certainly must have heard it inside Madinah, either before or after Tabuk. This fact alone completely defeats all of Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah’s efforts at reinterpreting Hadith al-Manzilah out of its intended purpose. Meanwhile, things get really much worse for him with Ibn ‘Abbas’ claim, radhiyallahu ‘anhu, that the “merit” in the hadith belonged exclusively to ‘Ali! Imam al-Hakim (d. 403 H) records:
Abu Bakr Ahmad b. Ja’far b. Hamadan al-Qati’i – ‘Abd Allah b. Ahmad b. Hanbal – my father (Ahmad b. Hanbal) – Yahya b. Hammad – Abu ‘Awanah – Abu Balj – ‘Amr b. Maymun .... Ibn ‘Abbas said:
.... They are attacking a man who has ten EXCLUSIVE merits.... The Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, went out for the battle of Tabuk, and the people went out with him. So, ‘Ali said to him, “Let me go out with you.” Therefore, the Prophet, peace be upon him, said, “Do not weep, ‘Ali. Are you not pleased that you are to me of the status of Harun to Musa, with the exception that there is no prophet after me? Verily, it is not right that I depart except with you as my khalifah.”16
Al-Hakim says:
This hadith has a sahih chain.17
Al-Dhahabi (d. 748 H) backs him:
Sahih.18
Was ‘Ali then the only governor ever appointed over Madinah during the Prophet’s lifetime?! Obviously, the hadith is very, very far from what Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah claims!
There also many Shia narrations of it.
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
Yes, the Prophet said, He left two things. He did not say, He left Hadith for you.
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
He didn’t have to say that. It is obvious.
Ahlulbayt is not among you.
Prophet did not say, replace them with Hadith.
It was God's will, the Ahlulbayt will not be among you any longer.
Now, your forefathers replaced them with Hadith and Tafseer. This is their invention. They did not want to just accept the Will of God.
This is where Islam went wrong.
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InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
Firstly Allah did not ask people to establish an Islamic Government.
Secondly, Imams did not instruct you, to use this document for future establishment of Government.
It is a mis-application of a document.
1400 years ago had different conditions.
It was a totally different time and society.
You cannot apply something from 1400 years ago, to our time.
Exactly. Maybe you need to reconsider that, if Allah wanted Muslims to establish a Government, He was not unable to give you such instruction neither God was ignorant to do so.
That's exactly where Islam went wrong.
"We do not find what we want in the Book of God, so, let's invent it for God"
How do you know Prophet said these words? Quran and Ahlulbayt. Since you don't accept hadiths as authority.
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
Dude, i don't think you really understood our discussion here.
The Words of Allah, is what Prophet left for Muslims (i.e. the Quran).
He did not say, I leave for you Hadithes, so, When I am not among you, follow Hadithes. Yet, you quote a Hadith?
Nope, quote a verse of the Quran that says, Revelation of God is ended with the Quran. You make it look like, Allah was unable, or forgetful to say this in the Quran, so, now you have bring Hadithes.
Do you see the problem? This is exactly how and why Islam is divided into sp many sects, who are in conflict with each other.
Because they did not follow the guidence from Allah. Because they did not follow the advise of the Prophet, when He said "I left for you two things: Quran and Ahlulbayt".
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
Excellent and fair question. See, you are mindful and understanding when you want to.
The basis is the Quran verse:
And certainly We have given you seven of the oft-repeated and the grand Quran. (Surah Hijr 15:87)
Notice, Quran says the same. God gave you two things. Not just Quran:
1. A double of Seven.
2. Quran
What does Two Sevens mean سبعا من المثاني
It means 14.
It is very possible it is an allusion to 14 Infallibles, or 14 معصوم
ـ شي : تفسير العياشي عن يونس بن عبد الرحمن رفعه [٣] قال : سألت أبا عبد الله 7 عن قول الله : ( وَلَقَدْ آتَيْناكَ سَبْعاً مِنَ الْمَثانِي وَالْقُرْآنَ الْعَظِيمَ ) قال إن ظاهرها الحمد وباطنها ولد الولد والسابع منها القائم 7 [٤].
٧ ـ قال حسان [٥] سألت أبا جعفر 7 عن قول الله : ( وَلَقَدْ آتَيْناكَ سَبْعاً مِنَ الْمَثانِي وَالْقُرْآنَ الْعَظِيمَ ) قال ليس هكذا تنزيلها [٦] إنما هي ولقد آتيناك سبع مثاني [٧] نحن هم ( وَالْقُرْآنَ الْعَظِيمَ ) ولد الولد [٨].
٨ ـ شي : تفسير العياشي عن القاسم بن عروة عن أبي جعفر 7 في قول الله ( وَلَقَدْ آتَيْناكَ سَبْعاً مِنَ الْمَثانِي وَالْقُرْآنَ الْعَظِيمَ ) قال سبعة أئمة والقائم [٩].
٩ ـ شي : تفسير العياشي سماعة قال قال أبو الحسن 7 ( وَلَقَدْ آتَيْناكَ سَبْعاً مِنَ الْمَثانِي وَالْقُرْآنَ الْعَظِيمَ ) قال لم يعط الأنبياء إلا محمد 9 وهم السبعة الأئمة الذين يدور عليهم الفلك والقرآن العظيم محمد 9 [١٠].
firedragon
Veteran Member
I don't need to understand the whole conversation. You were asking for ahadith with the Lanabiahadhi quote. I gave you one.
What about the hadiths that state it's Surah Fatiha? Ahlulbayt Authority in Quran doesn't mean Prophet (S) said these words. I'm asking you how do you know he said these words?
firedragon
Veteran Member
Hmm. You teach other people arabic right? Even in this thread you were teaching arabic to the other guy. You are a teacher. Expert.
Tell me. What nuances in the Fusha Atthuraath does this word "seven" or "Sabaa" have in meaning? It's simple Kamoos and ilm atthawaleeyah.
So tell me the nuances in arabic.
The Quran doesn't contain the details of Salah. Did we invent Salah?