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The prophethood of Mohammad???

I

Islam

Member
NoahideHiker vbmenu_register("postmenu_687539", true); i think you should know that Mohammed never claimed to be sent for the Arabs only, he was sent for all of humanit as a mercy for them, as the final prophet. So he was sent for you and the indians and the chineese etc, unlike most other prophets who claimed they were only sent for the Jews (including Jesus himself who said he has not been sent but unto the lost sheep of the hous of Israel).
 
NoahideHiker

NoahideHiker

Religious Headbanger
Islam said:
NoahideHiker vbmenu_register("postmenu_687539", true); i think you should know that Mohammed never claimed to be sent for the Arabs only, he was sent for all of humanit as a mercy for them, as the final prophet. So he was sent for you and the indians and the chineese etc, unlike most other prophets who claimed they were only sent for the Jews (including Jesus himself who said he has not been sent but unto the lost sheep of the hous of Israel).
Click to expand...

Peace to you and your house Islam! :)

I wasn't meaning that Muhammad was only sent to the Arabs. My point was if someone is not a Muslim then Muhammad's prophethood really aren't an issue for them any more than Jesus' prophethood is to the non christian. In the Torah (Devarim 13 & 18) there are ways that Hashem told His people they could tell who was a real prophet and who was not. Does Muhammad pass these tests? I don't know. I am not familiar enough with him and his life to know.

This may surprise you but the faith I follow is very much like yours and some Muslims do consider me a Muslim because I follow the covenant of Noach and the terms of that covenant are such that you and I follow pretty much the same commands. But in the end we can even get passed the small differences because the biggest thing we BOTH follow is this...

One True G-d and the submission to Him.
 
*Paul*

*Paul*

Jesus loves you
Islam said:
Exactly, and the greek word for comforter is paraclitos, the greek word for Mohammed is paraclytos. Coinsidence? Given the hundreds of biblical errors according to christian scholars themselves, i dont think so.
Click to expand...

Comforter = Paracletos, Counsellor, Advocate, Comforter and so on

Greek Mohammed = periklutos, praised one

Different words, different meanings. And beside if Jesus was talking about Mohammed then His description of him was very wrong e.g He(the paracletos) will be in you (impossible for Mohammed), He dwells with you (mohammed not born yet) and so on and besides Jesus said exactly who the comforter is:

Jn 14v26: But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

I think Jesus knows best.
 
maro

maro

muslimah
NoahideHiker said:
This may surprise you but the faith I follow is very much like yours and some Muslims do consider me a Muslim because I follow the covenant of Noach and the terms of that covenant are such that you and I follow pretty much the same commands. But in the end we can even get passed the small differences because the biggest thing we BOTH follow is this...

One True G-d and the submission to Him.
Click to expand...

Noahidelhiker,
Muslims have a very clear definition for what ( Muslim ) means ,

the one who submits to Allah ,
Believe in Muhamed's prophecy and that he is the last prophet ,
follow the teachings of the Quran and sunna ,

and any one who comes out of this definition , can't be considered a muslim ,
even if he believes in in One god ,
and follow commands similar to that of islam ,

the testimony of faith of islam is , ( There is no God but Allah , and Muhammed is his prohet )

Another thing which you don't seem to know , is that muslims believe that the one who knows about Muhammed's prophecy ,
and then refuses to follow him , is having a real problem
 
I

Islam

Member
Paul..
Jn 14v26: But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Click to expand...
Ok.. no problem.. but at another place which I cant remember the verse number, Jesus says if I go not away the comforter will not come unto you. And we see in the Bible tons and tons of times that the Holly spirit was there with Jesus and Jesus blew unto his disciples and said recieve ye the Holly Ghost. So this is a contradiction, it makes no sence.
Mohammed is the comforter, he is the Prophet of Deutronemy 18:18.
He is from the Jews' brethren, the Arabs. And he was the one like Moses.
Three different and distinct questions were posed to John the Baptist and to which he gave three emphatic "NO'S" as answers to the Jews.
[SIZE=-1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]1) ART THOU THE CHRIST?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]2) ART THOU ELIAS?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]3) ART THOU THAT PROPHET?[/SIZE]

If we look to the cross references that prophet is the prophet of Deut 18:18. It is obviouse that the Jews were looking for THREE distinct prophecies. Why do you only see two? Christ peace be upon him was a prophet, they knew that, so why would they ask him the same thing twice? They didnt. It was t-h-r-e-e distinct prophecies.
 
NoahideHiker

NoahideHiker

Religious Headbanger
maro said:
Noahidelhiker,
Muslims have a very clear definition for what ( Muslim ) means ,

the one who submits to Allah ,
Believe in Muhamed's prophecy and that he is the last prophet ,
follow the teachings of the Quran and sunna ,

and any one who comes out of this definition , can't be considered a muslim ,
even if he believes in in One god ,
and follow commands similar to that of islam ,

the testimony of faith of islam is , ( There is no God but Allah , and Muhammed is his prohet )

Another thing which you don't seem to know , is that muslims believe that the one who knows about Muhammed's prophecy ,
and then refuses to follow him , is having a real problem
Click to expand...

Thus the reason why I said SOME Muslims consider me a Muslim. Not all sects of Islam would and that's fine. I personally do not call myself a Muslim. I am a B'nai Noach and don't see myself changing. So where, in your opinion, does that leave standing in the Muslim's eyes?
 
*Paul*

*Paul*

Jesus loves you
Islam said:
Paul..

Ok.. no problem.. but at another place which I cant remember the verse number, Jesus says if I go not away the comforter will not come unto you.
Click to expand...
Will not come unto you as in the outpouring that was promised in Joel, and personally. During the old covenant the Holy Spirit came upon people for a specific purpose and at specific times but never indwelt them and was never poured out upon mutitudes, but when He was sent to us it began the dispensation of the Sprirt or the church age under a new covenenant in which He literally indwells born again believers and will never leave them. So although the Holy Spirit was on the earth, anointing specific people He was not yet as per the promise in Joel and baptising people into the body of Christ. This is why it was expedient that He should come.
Jesus blew unto his disciples and said recieve ye the Holly Ghost. So this is a contradiction, it makes no sence.
Click to expand...
Again this is still under the old covenant and still operating under old covenant ways. This blowing upon the disciples was to keep them strenghtened and praying and trusting God for the promise of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit during the forty or fifty days between Jesus' ascension and the day of pentecost.

Mohammed is the comforter, he is the Prophet of Deutronemy 18:18.
Click to expand...
He most certainly is not, I have shown who the comforter is, He is the Holy Ghost as Jesus Said "I will send the Comforter who is the Holy Ghost." Sending Mohammed some 600 years later would have been no comfort to the disciples who were mourning Jesus' departure and Mohammed could not do this for them:
Jn 16v13: Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come
And look at this verse please:
Jn 15v26: But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
He proceedeth from the Father, does Mohammed do that? Does Mohammed even acknoweldge God as a Father, is Mohammed the Spirit of truth? Does Mohammed testify of Jesus?
Jn 16v14: He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Does Mohammed glorify Jesus? Does He recieve revelation of Jesus and shew it unto people? Did He recieve revealtion of Jesus and shew it unto the disciples?
If I were you I would forget about this theory as it does no credit to Islamic scholarship. It rather shows a desire to take the Holy bible and make it speak about mohammed, is the koran insufficient in this?
He is from the Jews' brethren, the Arabs. And he was the one like Moses.
Three different and distinct questions were posed to John the Baptist and to which he gave three emphatic "NO'S" as answers to the Jews.

[SIZE=-1]1) ART THOU THE CHRIST?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]2) ART THOU ELIAS?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]3) ART THOU THAT PROPHET?[/SIZE]

If we look to the cross references that prophet is the prophet of Deut 18:18. It is obviouse that the Jews were looking for THREE distinct prophecies. Why do you only see two? Christ peace be upon him was a prophet, they knew that, so why would they ask him the same thing twice? They didnt. It was t-h-r-e-e distinct prophecies
Click to expand...

It is my understanding that it was a misunderstanding of the Jews, in Christianity "that prophet" is the one Moses referred to that God would raise up like unto him. This is none other than the messiah, Jesus is both that prophet and the Christ.
Art thou that prophet? [Moses had foretold a prophet who should come (Deut. 18:15–18), but the Jews appear to have had no fixed opinion concerning him, for some thought he would be a second Moses, others a second Elijah, others the Messiah. The Scriptures show us how uncertain they were about him
Mt 16v14: And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
Jn 6v14: Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.
Jn 7v40-41: Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.
Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?
Though divided in opinion as to who this prophet would be, the Jews were fairly unanimous as to what he would do. Finding in their Scriptures two pictures of the Christ, one representing him as a great Conqueror, and the other of his priesthood, setting him forth as a great Sufferer, they took the pictures to refer to two personages, one denoting a king—the Messiah—and the other a prophet. This is obviously not a problem within Christianity.
Click to expand...
 
maro

maro

muslimah
*Paul* said:
I could also post websites to the contrary, but what would that prove? Just that there are people out there who think he is a prophet and those who disagree.
It's pointless posting links to websites as proof.
Click to expand...

Paul, you are free to post whatever you like

And make sure if you posted some of those links you are talking about , I am the first one who is going to read them with accuracy , instead of calling them pointless ,

we are all seeking guidance , and ask allah for it in our prayers ,
so what's the problem ,to listen to the other point of view ?
 
maro

maro

muslimah
NoahideHiker said:
Thus the reason why I said SOME Muslims consider me a Muslim. Not all sects of Islam would and that's fine. I personally do not call myself a Muslim. I am a B'nai Noach and don't see myself changing. So where, in your opinion, does that leave standing in the Muslim's eyes?
Click to expand...

Nohadhiker , I don't think there is any Muslim who sees someone who doesn't believe in muhammed's prophecy and follow the teachings of the quran ,as a muslim

And as long as you don't call yourself a muslim , then we have no problem

and before I answer your question , i would like you to tell me about your faith , first
And who established it ? and wether you think he is a prophet or not ?
 
*Paul*

*Paul*

Jesus loves you
maro said:
Paul, you are free to post whatever you like

And make sure if you posted some of those links you are talking about , I am the first one who is going to read them with accuracy , instead of calling them pointless ,

we are all seeking guidance , and ask allah for it in our prayers ,
so what's the problem ,to listen to the other point of view ?
Click to expand...

I wasn't saying I was going to post links, I said I could but that is boring to be honest and is usually too lenghty for people to read, i'd rather know what is in your heart and mind instead. I only meant it was pointless in the context of a debate.
I did read some of the link ,the part one of three at the top of the page.
 
maro

maro

muslimah
*Paul* said:
I wasn't saying I was going to post links, I said I could but that is boring to be honest and is usually too lenghty for people to read, i'd rather know what is in your heart and mind instead. I only meant it was pointless in the context of a debate.
I did read some of the link ,the part one of three at the top of the page.
Click to expand...

well,when you are talking to a non muslim , and trying to convince him with something , the whole discussion will be about logic proof

and it's fair ,

the one who says something must carry the burden of the proof ,

but if you are asking me personally about what is in my mind and heart ,
it's something that exceeds (logic proof) ,
logic proof is about the miraclulous signs of the quran , the prophecies of the prophet (Pbuh), the perfect social rules of islam , and the story of the prophet and his companions

all these things require education , and sincerity in seeking knowledge
for example ( yusef Estes) is one of the best who can explain those issues

but for me personally ,and as i said before ,
it's something that exceeds logic proof , it's something in my heart ,

what i feel in my heart while listening to the recitation of the holy quran , is not something that i can be decieved about

the great love to my prophet Muhammed (Pbuh), is not something that i can be decieved about
فداه ابى و امى , و نفسى و روحى

when you know the truth Paul ,you feel it in your heart
 
NoahideHiker

NoahideHiker

Religious Headbanger
maro said:
and before I answer your question , i would like you to tell me about your faith , first
And who established it ? and wether you think he is a prophet or not ?
Click to expand...

My faith is based on the covenant that G-d made with all of mankind through Noach in Berei**** (Gen.) 9. This covenant was made with him and his seed. The commands of that covenant are seven universal laws.

[SIZE=-1]Prohibition of idolatry[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Prohibition of blasphemy[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Prohibition of murder
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Prohibition of theft
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Prohibition of illicit relations
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Prohibition of eating live meat
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Prohibition of failing to establish courts of justice[/SIZE]
 
I

Islam

Member
NohideHiker, this is what Islam forbids! Please study Islam, I advice you read the Quran. And read Mohammeds biography. The best one is "Muhammad: His life based on the earliest sources" its written by Martin Lings. You can find it on amazon of course.

Peter. If you so insist that the comforter was/is the Holly Ghost, please, show us how he fits the criteria. How did he guide you into all truth? Because as far as I know the more time goes by the more Christianity is divided. Hundreds of sects each going completely different ways and EACH claiming the gift of the Holly Ghost. Funny huh? What good did he do the Christian world? WW1? Hitler? Oh I forgot, Martin Luther King! What truth did he guide you into? The crusades? Name we ONE thing in the last 100 years which the holly Ghost did to Christianity. 1000 years? 2000 years? Nothing. It is t the extent that angalican bishops now say that you dont have to believe in Christs virgin birth! Can you imagine! Jesus also says "He shall glorify me". How did the Holly spirit glorify Jesus? Mohammed glorified Jesus. The name Jesus is mentioned in the Quran many times more than the name Mohammed. A chapter is entitled Marry (Christs mother). There is no chapter or mention of Mohammeds mother. In the Quran, Jesus is born a mirculous birth. And he was the Christ. This angers the Jews in Arabia at that time. It also angers the Christian Arabs at that time since it doesnt say hes God. It also angers the Pagan Arabs for naming a chapter in the Quran after a Jewish woman, and the Arabs and the Jews at that time had many problems because the Jews looked down at them. Dont you see? His actions are provoking everyone? Why unless this was divine and he was being dictated what to say. Just by uttering the words "Jesus is the Christ" 1.5 billion Muslims follow these words without questioning. Jesus also says that the spirit of truth will tell them of things which are to come. How did the Holly Ghost do this?! Tell me. Mohammed did. He told the Muslims hundreds of things to come. He even told the coming of cars, televisions, WW1, Iraqs occupation, AIDS, the conquest of Constantinople by the Muslims, many many things. It is interesting to note that before becoming a Prophet at the age of 40, Mohammed was known in the entire Arabian peninsula as being the "truthful, honest, trustworthy". He never told a lie in his entire life. Everything Im telling you fits Mohammed like a glove yet you turn your back away why? He's telling you worship God associate no partners with him and that God is mercifull and forgiving he doesnt have to slaughter his own son for sins which you never commited (original sin). May Allah bless you with Islam soon. Peace.
 
maro

maro

muslimah
NoahideHiker said:
My faith is based on the covenant that G-d made with all of mankind through Noach in Berei**** (Gen.) 9. This covenant was made with him and his seed. The commands of that covenant are seven universal laws.

[SIZE=-1]Prohibition of idolatry[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Prohibition of blasphemy[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Prohibition of murder
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Prohibition of theft
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Prohibition of illicit relations
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Prohibition of eating live meat
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Prohibition of failing to establish courts of justice[/SIZE]
Click to expand...

Noahidehiker ,
in fact i liked those commands ,
and as islam said , they are part of the islamic teachings as well ,

and i can see how close your faith is to the islam ,

but i will still be honest with you ,
muslims believe that Muhamed is the last and greatest prophet ,chosen by god to convey his last message to earth ,
and that the quran is his eternal miracle ,and the only way of guidance to humanity

peace be with you
 
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