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The prophethood of Mohammad???
- Thread starter mli3
- Start date
maro
muslimah
You may be an atheist or an agnostic or you may belong to any of the religious denominations that exist in the world today. You may have been a Communist or a believer in democracy and freedom. No matter what you are, and no matter what your religious and political beliefs, personal and social habits happen to be YOU STILL MUST KNOW THIS MAN!
www.muhammad.net
www.muhammad.net
maro
muslimah
maro
muslimah
maro
muslimah
*Paul*
Jesus loves you
I assume you mean me. I have had to delete some of your quotes as my post is too long, hopefully you can tie what i say with your comments.
Well the first clue is this:
Jn 14v26: But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Can it be truly any plainer than this? Do you not think that Jesus is qualified to say? Why ignore His very words here, you can't have more "logic proof" than a direct statement like that. So the question should be since the Comforter is the Holy Ghost how does He fulfill the criteria.
He guided me into Jesus Christ, He is the truth:
Jn 14v6: Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me
But since it may mean an understanding of the truth, it's quite simple but lenghty to explain. Letting scripture interpret scripture here we go:
Perfect knowledge is unattainable in these bodies of flesh because they are sinful and not a part (yet) of God's kingdom, they are still in the likeness of fallen man and are subject to entropy (as is the whole creation now) due to the wages of sin (death). It is not expected that this verse means that God will give us perfect knowledge here on earth:
1Cor 13v9: For we know in part, and we prophesy in part
But it is promised to us in the future:
1Cor 13v12: For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
To know even as I am known (of God) means to know fully. But as it is promised it is a sure thing and will definately happen, there is no uncertainty here so we can say it is our possesion though not yet attained. In the same way that a child who stands to inherit a fortune when he is 18 years old may say that it is his but he must wait patiently for it until that day. God's promises are sure for:
Ti 1v2: In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began
There is a transformation of our bodies to come and an attainment of what we should be as humans:
1Cor 15v51: Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Cor 15v53: For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Phil 3v21: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
1Jn 3v2: Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
The promise is sure and the fulfillment undoubtable. So we have all truth in a person - Jesus Christ, when we reach that destination it will be all because of the Father (it was His decree), through Jesus Christ (it was through His obedience and body) and by His Holy Spirit (it was His sanctification and renewing that kept us in His grace)
Islam grows more divided too but that is not the topic. (you're 600 years younger than us remember) It depends what you mean by Christianity. True Christianity exists amongst the denimations. Look at the parable of the wheat and the tares: True and false Christians will grow side by side until the harvest when only the wheat will be gathered into the store house. It is how Jesus said it would be and how Paul said it would be. In the end you are only a Christian through one way and that is by being born again by faith in Jesus Christ through believing the gospel. All denominations have such people in them, these make up the true church of Christ (and are wheat). The simple reason why there are sects and differences of opinion is because we have a liberty. We are not dictated to what we should believe but we are to strive together to keep the unity we already have -- in the bond of peace. When you consider that fact our unity is remarkable and most differences are not such that would cause us to deny the salvation of the other. I fully believe also that as God lets our personalities remain He allows us our differences so we can express our faith with likeminded believers rather than being forced to conform to the majority opinion. I could get the statements of faith from stacks of the denominations and compare them for you and you will see the common theme through them, research for yourself. It's not the situation that you (and others) make it out to be.
What good did Mohammed do the Christian world? What is this Christian world you speak of?
2Tm 3v13: But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
Mt 24v7: And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mt 18v7: Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
The Holy Spirit was never promised for the prevention of war neither these things are not Christian problems as a Christian is someone who has eternal life and:
1Jn 3v15: Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
The Spirit of God warned that such things will happen and gives comfort to those who are children of God during these perilous times
ANd what did he do wrong exactly?
Too much to discuss here, but His guidance has been wonderful but He doesn't force me into anything, I must submit to God's will and die to self. Emptied of self I can be filled with God's Spirit.
Christians were killed by crusaders too you know. No murderer is a Christian, if these men were murderers then these acts were not comitted by Christians but by people who are proffessors of the faith not possesors of it.
He has preserved a Church amidst growing apostasy. He has comforted the saints. Remember His work is invisible and if you look at the works he does they are not something you can point at.
What have Mohammeds teachings given the world in the last 100 years?
These men unfortunatly are free to call themselves Christians, i can't stop them, that doesn't make it so. How would you describe a muslim that said Mohammeds message was his own and not from allah even though it is true? Or what if he said mohammads message should be re-interpreted to fit in with todays society or western thought?
By giving the apostles the New testament, by building and preserving a Church in Christs Name, who do you hear Christians talk about?
He denied His sonship and his whole purpose - death and ressurection
But opposes His own teachings that salvation is through believeing in Him. It demotes Jesus into a mere prophet this is de-glorification.
This Christ?:
Isa 9v6-7: For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
If so we don't really disagree.
I don't strongly believe he wasn't
You define Christ differently. Look at How it should be defined:
Mk 14v61: But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
Mt 16v16: And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Read the book of revelation, also the new testament has many prophecies in it.
1Jn 2v22: Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
From what I have read of the koran so far there is nothing in there to convince me that what I know is false.
And that I do without Mohammads instruction.
The problem is there is no just basis for his forgiveness.
Your zeal is touching, truly. But what you wish for me is impossible. As I have said I have read some of the koran and I will finish it this year if the Lord tarries but there is nothing in there for me that would make me reject what I know to be true.
NoahideHiker
Religious Headbanger
maro said:
In my travels with G-d I have come to learn a few things. One of these things is that there is not one single true path to Hashem. When I was a christian G-d was with me and He blessed me beyond my needs. Now that I have left christianity and I follow the Noachide covenant G-d is still with me and He is still blessing me beyond my needs. One other thing that I have learned is that the ways of Hashem are not open ended. The B'nai Noach code is my end of the road. I will spend the rest of my days perfecting the seven laws of my faith.
And my last point, which I do not say to offend, is that in the Torah and whole of the Tanach it does not say there would be one religion and one single way to the Creator. By this I do not mean that I follow the right one and I am not saying that you follow a wrong one.
Now having said that I do respect Islam and it's followers. I would be honored to pray with you in your mosque side by side as fellow monotheists in submission to G-d.
May Hashem keep you and bless you Maro!
maro
muslimah
NoahideHiker said:
so why have you left christianity?
but the quran says that ,and this what really matters to me ,
I respect you too , and i think we can agree to disagree sometimes ,
i believe that the single true path is , simply ,the one which can prove itself to be from god , and not (Man made),
and i believe that if we searched sincerely among the too many paths , we will find someone that is extraordinarily enlightened,
and that's it , that's the true path
maro
muslimah
Why did god allow different religions ?
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1158658484909&pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam%2FAskAboutIslamE%2FAskAboutIslamE
the dilemma of applying reason
http://thetruereligion.org/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=96
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1158658484909&pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam%2FAskAboutIslamE%2FAskAboutIslamE
the dilemma of applying reason
http://thetruereligion.org/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=96
maro
muslimah
The Purpose of life
http://www.sultan.org/articles/purposeoflife.htm
http://www.islamreligion.com/category/52/
Prophethood in islam
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/prophet/prophethoodinislam.html
islamic political system
http://www.islamonline.net/English/introducingislam/politics/Politics/article05.shtml
http://www.sultan.org/articles/purposeoflife.htm
http://www.islamreligion.com/category/52/
Prophethood in islam
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/prophet/prophethoodinislam.html
islamic political system
http://www.islamonline.net/English/introducingislam/politics/Politics/article05.shtml
maro
muslimah
The islamic concept of life
http://www.jamaat.org/islam/IslamWay.html
The concept of morality in islam
http://www.wamy.org/Islam%20In%20Focus1/Chapter%20II/The%20concept%20of%20morality.html
The virtues of the quran
http://www.al-islam.com/maknazlatin/Hits.asp?l=eng&p=0-4-1-&subjno=10&pathCount=2
The quranic Approach to learning
http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/archive/article.php?lang=E&id=31201
http://www.jamaat.org/islam/IslamWay.html
The concept of morality in islam
http://www.wamy.org/Islam%20In%20Focus1/Chapter%20II/The%20concept%20of%20morality.html
The virtues of the quran
http://www.al-islam.com/maknazlatin/Hits.asp?l=eng&p=0-4-1-&subjno=10&pathCount=2
The quranic Approach to learning
http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/archive/article.php?lang=E&id=31201
maro
muslimah
Creation of the universe
http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/archive/article.php?lang=E&id=31201
What is islam ?
http://www.somalilife.com/it-is-truth/WhatIsIslam.html
http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/archive/article.php?lang=E&id=31201
What is islam ?
http://www.somalilife.com/it-is-truth/WhatIsIslam.html
Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
The PROOF of Muhammad is the same as the PROOF of Jesus Christ--His person and His Book.This is also the PROOF of Moses, Abraham, Buddha, Zoroaster, Krshna, the Bab and Baha`u'llah. He makes the claim and it is up to the individual to accept or deny, there is no other choice.
Regards,
Scott
Regards,
Scott
I answered this in one of my posts, maybe I didnt, anyway I will now inshAllah (God willing). Jesus said "and I will pray the father that he shall give you ANOTHER comforter". Another one, other than the temporary Holly Spirit.
Have you no idea of the tremendous affect Islam has had on the world? The European renaissance would not have happened if it werent for Islam. At the time of their dark ages it was Islams golden age, we were flourished with science, math, astronomy, etc. After finaly translating our works, the renaissance began. Heck, even the three meal per day idea was invented by a Muslim (as simple as it is). as George Bernardshaw said "he (Mohammed) shall be called the savior of humanity." Not only did Mohammed do good to the Christian world (as human beings) but to the entire world generaly. The verse said he shall guide you into all truth, Mohammed solved all the problems of the time, all of the them. Even the Jews of the time, used to go to him impressed by his justice and way of ruling that they would go to him to solve there disputes according to Jewish law and he would.
Meaning that he was one guided by the Holly Spirit.
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. (-Luke 19:27)
I dont believe that Jesus uttered these words since I believe the Bible we have today is corrupt. It is the word of man, not the word of God. Simple proof is its hundreds of contradictions, unscientific facts, and absurdities such as a man tying three hundred foxes together and burning them between their legs, etc. But hey, thats what the Bible says.
Muslims are the most people on earth who give charity and money for the poor. In the last one hundred years? Simple, Muslims arent following Mohammeds teachings, when they did, they ruled the world, literally, and intelectualy.
Do you have proof these are the acts of the Holly Ghost? No. A New testament which is filled with contradictions and errors is no work of God fo God is perfect and does not inspire anything with error.
In the language of the Jew, son of God means man of God, a godly person, a rightous man. When Jesus says son of God, why on earth do you make the standards different? Did Jesus ever say he came to die for your sins? Did he ever say that was his purpose? No you interpret things the way you want them to be and when Mohammed says something which doesnt fit your intepretation you say aah he is denying Jesus. No, Mohammed is denying the things you have attributed to Jesus, not what and who Jesus was.
Salvation in Islam is throgh believing in Jesus since he was sent by God therfore denying him is also in a way denying God all praise be to Him. In that essence, yes salvation is through believing in Jesus. As far as I know, Christians are in a huge dillema on where and how they obtain salvation since Paul contradicts Jesus in every single thing. Jesus says follow the commandments, Paul nails them on the cross next to Jesus. Jesus says you enter the kingdom of heaven by good deeds, Paul says our deeds are in vain if Jesus didnt die.
This is how we define it. Metaphorically, not literally, basically we define it in its context. As I said in the language of the Jew son of God means a man of God, a rightouse man etc. The Bile ascribes tons of sons to God, you say all of them are metaphorical, but jesus, you change the entire language and make it literal.
" . . Thou (o David) ART MY SON; this day have I (God) BEGOTTEN thee. " PSALMS 2:7
So David also should be part of the trinity? No because its metaphorically, same with Jesus Christ. But you say "but Jesus had no father! So it has to be God!"
God answers you in the Holly Quran and tells you:
And the similtude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam.
He created him from dust and said to him 'Be', and he came to be."
[ 3:59]
Right, I know, you dont accept the Quran as the word of God. Fine, I'll be flexible, let me show you what God tells you in the Holly Bible itself:
4 How then can man be righteous before God?
Or how can he be pure who is born of a woman?
5 If even the moon does not shine,
And the stars are not pure in His sight,
6 How much less man, who is a maggot,
And a son of man, who is a worm?
(Job 25:4-6)
Can you imagine God calling himself and His son a magogot and a worm?! Jesus was born of a woman! He was a man! This is what the verse is saying, not me.
Yes, it does, I agree with you. It also has false prophecies. And one is sufficient to prove it wrong. Its mentioned in 2nd Kings, Chapter No.8, Verse No.26, it says that Ahezia was 22 years old, when he began to reign. 2nd Chronicles, Chapter No. 22, Verse No. 2, says that He was 42 years old, when he began to reign. Was he 22 years old, or was he 42 years old? - Mathematical contradiction. Further more, in 2nd Chronicles, Chapter No. 21, Verse No. 20, it says that Joaram, the father of Ahezia, he reigned at the age of 32 - and he reigned for 8 years, and he died at the age of 40. Immediately Ahezia became the next ruler at the age of 42. Father died at the age of 40 - Immediately the son takes over, who is at the age of 42. How can a son, be two years older than the father?
If you read Ezekiel, Chapter No 26, it says that Nebuchader, he will destroyed Tyre. We come to know that Alexander the great, was the person who destroyed Tyre - Unfulfilled prophecy. Isaiah, Chapter No. 7, Verse No 14, says, prophesying of The coming of a person who will be born to a virgin - his name shall be Emmanuel. You say the Christians - it refers to Jesus Christ peace be upon him. Born to a virgin - the Hebrew word there is amla, which means not a virgin- a young lady. The word for virgin in Hebrew is, baitula, which is not there. Even if you agree - we are using concordance - we agree Virgin Virgin - No problem. It says He will be called Immanuel. No where in the Bible is Jesus Christ peace be upon him, is called as Immanuel - Unfulfilled prophecy.
Again, Mohammed doesnt deny that Jesus is the Christ. Furthermore Jesus said that He who confeseth that Jesus is the Christ is of God. Mohammed did.
Metaphorically. Not literally. Mohammed didnt deny the metaphorical father, God, or the metaphorical son, jesus. As I said in the language of my Jewish cousins, son of God is used to a rightouse man.
Explain more please I dunno what you mean.
Peace be unto you.
19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
(Numbers 23:19)
Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
Islam said:
I do not believe Muhammad EVER said He would be the LAST Prophet and there would be no more revelation to man. Muhammad said He was the "Seal" of the Prophets. This means He was the authenticator of all the Prophets, not the last. His word certified all the Prophets before Him--like an ornament or the wax seal of authority.
Regardless of what the ullamah might say.
Regards,
Scott
"Khatam ul nabiyeen" is what he said. The arabic word khatam means the last seal. There are tons of hadiths which also show he is the last one, shall I interest you in some or you dont believe in them? At least say peace be upon him when you speak of him, he is no ordinary man you know, we must respect him for all the trouble and torment he went through to convey the message of Islam.
Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
Islam said:
There's a difference between Khataam and Khatim. Baha`u'llah and the Bab make no claim to be nabiyeen either, their claim is to be Rasuli. Khatam ul nabiyeen also does not mean LAST seal, it merely means the guarantor of the Nabiyeen and Rasuli. Niety percent+ of the Bhukari Hadith only refer to the knob of flesh between Muhammad's shoulder-blades as being the "Seal of the Prophets". None of this means "NO MORE".
By the way, you can thumb through past posts where this has been discussed in seperate threads at seperate times. This discussion will be no different unless you go through them with the intent of not covering old grpund.
Regards,
Scott