The prophethood of Mohammad???

[Islam]

Sure scott but I do believe he said Khatam ul nabiyeen and rusol. But, as you said since this has been discussed before no use of discussing it now and here. Plus I think its a bit off topic.
Peace

 

[*Paul*]

I answered this in one of my posts, maybe I didnt, anyway I will now inshAllah (God willing). Jesus said "and I will pray the father that he shall give you ANOTHER comforter". Another one, other than the temporary Holly Spirit.

First the Spirit is Holy, not holly (a leaf) I don’t mean to be picky or mock your spelling but this spelling is irritating me as it seems to be ongoing.
I’m sorry but this is laughable, this one who Jesus said He will send is another other than Himself. He is one comforter (Parakletos) and the Holy Spirit is another comforter which makes a whole lot more sense. If it is Mohammed then He didn’t give him to the people He was speaking to but to some Arabs 600 years later, that would be no comfort to the disciples. Think about it, His disciples are grieved because Jesus says He is going away:
Jn 16v6: But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart.
But you are saying that He is telling them, don’t worry I will not leave you comfortless but in 600 years I’ll send to you a prophet, so sit tight and don’t be too downcast.

Have you no idea of the tremendous affect Islam has had on the world? The European renaissance would not have happened if it werent for Islam. At the time of their dark ages it was Islams golden age, we were flourished with science, math, astronomy, etc. After finaly translating our works, the renaissance began. Heck, even the three meal per day idea was invented by a Muslim (as simple as it is).

I asked what is meant by the Christian world (no such thing exists in my mind) and what he has done for this Christian world. I’m glad Islam had a golden age, good for you guys good to see you are still going from strength to strength in leading the way for world development and peace.

as George Bernardshaw said "he (Mohammed) shall be called the savior of humanity."

Then the man was wrong.
Isa 43v11: I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
Hosea 13v4: Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.
Lk 2v11: For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

The verse said he shall guide you into all truth, Mohammed solved all the problems of the time, all of the them. Even the Jews of the time, used to go to him impressed by his justice and way of ruling that they would go to him to solve there disputes according to Jewish law and he would.

Where is He now since He is to abide with us forever?
Jn 14v16: And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Does he live with you? Is he in you?
Jn 14v17: Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Definition of dwelleth (meno) in the New Testament:
1) to remain, abide
a) in reference to place
1) to sojourn, tarry
2) not to depart
a) to continue to be present
b) to be held, kept, continually
b) in reference to time:
1) to continue to be, not to perish, to last, endure
a) of persons, to survive, live
c) in reference to state or condition
1) to remain as one, not to become another or different
2) to wait for, await one

In case you hadn’t noticed Mohammed is long gone and does not fill this criterion, neither can he logically be IN you:

 

[*Paul*]

Meaning that he was one guided by the Holly Spirit.

I believe I asked what Martin Luther King did so wrong that would make him be an example of bad Christianity.

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Luke 19:27)

What does this supposedly prove? Do you not see that this is talking about the judgement at the return of Jesus Christ when He receives His kingdom as promised and prophesied?
Lk 19v15: And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading
Those who are to be slayed are those who reject His Lordship over them which are mentioned a few verses before the one you quoted:
Lk 19v14: But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us:

I dont believe that Jesus uttered these words since I believe the Bible we have today is corrupt. It is the word of man, not the word of God.

So you pick and choose which parts are the truth when it suits your position.

Simple proof is its hundreds of contradictions, unscientific facts, and absurdities such as a man tying three hundred foxes together and burning them between their legs, etc. But hey, thats what the Bible says.

Samson may easily have done that, He was a mighty warrior. Also for the Christian all these things have Spiritual meanings also as well as literally happening:
1Cor 10v11: Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Muslims are the most people on earth who give charity and money for the poor.

All so called Abrahamic religions are charitable ( I dare say all religions are) and give generously this proves nothing and I dare say it is debatable whether the Muslims are the most generous. Many Christians give anonymously because:
Mt 6v2-4: Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

In the last one hundred years? Simple, Muslims arent following Mohammeds teachings, when they did, they ruled the world, literally, and intelectualy.

Well many would say they are following His teachings, in fact they all do, perhaps his teachings are incompatible with the modern world, just a thought really I’m not saying they are not.

Do you have proof these are the acts of the Holly Ghost? No.

They are not intended to be proofs we do not need to prove them to anyone, we know Him, He lives in us, and you cannot know him because:
Jn 14v17: Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
It would be like trying to prove to a blind man that Yellow exists, he would just have to take your word for it in the end.

A New testament which is filled with contradictions and errors is no work of God fo God is perfect and does not inspire anything with error.

Clearly Christians do not believe it to be filled with contradictions and errors part of the reason is because you and the world are unregenerate and still in your natural state.
1Cor 2v12-14: Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
It is too much to ask of you that you understand most of the New Testament; until you believe the gospel (which anyone can understand) you are lacking the key to open the treasure chest.

 

[*Paul*]

In the language of the Jew, son of God means man of God, a godly person, a rightous man.

That maybe but a specific person is spoken of - THE Son of God. This is in reference to the prophecies in the Old Testament. What did the Jews themselves of that day think it meant?
Jn 5v18: Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the Sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
Jn 10v33: The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
And most significantly:
Mt 27v40: And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.
If the Son of God were a mere man of God in their minds why are they challenging Him to do the miraculous to prove He is the Son of God?
Why would it be considered blasphemous to say you were the Son of God if in their minds it meant merely man of God?
Jn 10v36: Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Would such a claim be punishable by death? To say I was a Son/man of God?
Jn 19v7: The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

When Jesus says son of God, why on earth do you make the standards different?

Answered above

Did Jesus ever say he came to die for your sins?

Mt 20v28: Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
Mt 9v13: But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Mt 26v28: For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Lk 24v46-47: And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

No you interpret things the way you want them to be

I take them at face value and follow the expanded teaching of those who were appointed by Him (His Apostles)

and when Mohammed says something which doesnt fit your intepretation you say aah he is denying Jesus.

Mohammed denies the essential doctrine of Jesus death on the cross for our sins even though Jesus said His blood was shed for the remission of sins. He also teaches that His blood was never even shed but that He was taken to heaven without ever dying and must come back to die as a man.

No, Mohammed is denying the things you have attributed to Jesus, not what and who Jesus was.

Here is something Jesus attributes to Himself:
Mt 17v22-23: And while they abode in Galilee, Jesus said unto them, The Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of men:
And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again. And they were exceeding sorry.
What does Mohammed say about that?
Lk 24v45-47: Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

As far as I know, Christians are in a huge dillema on where and how they obtain salvation since Paul contradicts Jesus in every single thing. Jesus says follow the commandments, Paul nails them on the cross next to Jesus. Jesus says you enter the kingdom of heaven by good deeds, Paul says our deeds are in vain if Jesus didnt die.

This shows a poor understanding of Christianity or a straw man representation. Jesus came to people under the Law before the new covenant was even begun, think about that and what it might mean.

 

[*Paul*]

This is how we define it. Metaphorically, not literally, basically we define it in its context. As I said in the language of the Jew son of God means a man of God, a rightouse man etc. The Bile ascribes tons of sons to God, you say all of them are metaphorical, but jesus, you change the entire language and make it literal.

" . . Thou (o David) ART MY SON; this day have I (God) BEGOTTEN thee. " PSALMS 2:7

It’s a prophecy about the Christ:
Ps 2v7-9: I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Rv 19v15: And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.


Ezek 34v23: And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.
It like in the same way that this is not about David:
Ps 16v9-10: Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope.
For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption
Acts 2v25: For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
Acts 2v26-31: Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
It’s just as Jesus said and we are wise to heed Him:
Jn 5v39-40: Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
Obviously Jesus was speaking of the Old testament here, He is all through it.

God answers you in the Holly Quran and tells you:

And the similtude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam.

He created him from dust and said to him 'Be', and he came to be."
[ 3:59]

Micah 5v2: But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Right, I know, you dont accept the Quran as the word of God. Fine, I'll be flexible, let me show you what God tells you in the Holly Bible itself:

4 How then can man be righteous before God?
Or how can he be pure who is born of a woman?
5 If even the moon does not shine,
And the stars are not pure in His sight,
6 How much less man, who is a maggot,
And a son of man, who is a worm?”

(Job 25:4-6)

Can you imagine God calling himself and His son a magogot and a worm?! Jesus was born of a woman! He was a man! This is what the verse is saying, not me.

Job is asking a question not giving an answer, by being born of a virgin is God’s solution to How a man can be pure who is born of a woman.
Let us wonder at God's condescension in taking such worms as we are into covenant and communion with himself, especially at the condescension of the Son of God, in emptying himself so far as to say, I am a worm, and no man. (Matthew Henry)
Ps 22v6-8: But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head saying,
He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.

Yes, it does, I agree with you. It also has false prophecies. And one is sufficient to prove it wrong.

So I say that the New testament has many prophecies to which you agree but also say it has false prophecies and you try to prove this by quoting an old testament historical account and two old testament prophecies?? Do you not think that is a bit odd? Is this a diversion tactic? How is this proving Mohammad’s prophet hood? But since I loathe leaving anything unanswered:

Its mentioned in 2nd Kings, Chapter No.8, Verse No.26, it says that ‘Ahezia was 22 years old, when he began to reign.’ 2nd Chronicles, Chapter No. 22, Verse No. 2, says that… ‘He was 42 years old, when he began to reign. Was he 22 years old, or was he 42 years old? - Mathematical contradiction. Further more, in 2nd Chronicles, Chapter No. 21, Verse No. 20, it says that… ‘Joaram, the father of Ahezia, he reigned at the age of 32 - and he reigned for 8 years, and he died at the age of 40. Immediately… Ahezia became the next ruler at the age of 42. Father died at the age of 40 - Immediately the son takes over, who is at the age of 42. How can a son, be two years older than the father?’

It’s too long for me to go into as I’ve been answering this for an age but here is a useful link for you to study on this one (some people call it a copyist error but the originals were inspired):
http://www.letgodbetrue.com/bible/scripture/ahaziah-contradiction.pdf

 

[*Paul*]

If you read Ezekiel, Chapter No 26, it says that…‘Nebuchader, he will destroyed Tyre.’ We come to know that Alexander the great, was the person who destroyed Tyre - Unfulfilled prophecy.

Ezekiel sees the city of Tyre destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar as a place to spread nets. Isaiah describes Tyre as an isle. Alexander destroyed an island city.

Isaiah, Chapter No. 7, Verse No 14, says, prophesying of…‘The coming of a person who will be born to a virgin - his name shall be Emmanuel.’ You say… the Christians - it refers to Jesus Christ peace be upon him. Born to a virgin - the Hebrew word there is ‘amla’, which means not ‘a virgin’- ‘a young lady.’ The word for ‘virgin’ in Hebrew is, ‘baitula’, which is not there. Even if you agree - we are using concordance - we agree… ‘Virgin’… ‘Virgin’ - No problem. It says… ‘He will be called Immanuel.’ No where in the Bible is Jesus Christ peace be upon him, is called as Immanuel - Unfulfilled prophecy.

Hmmm this looks familiar:

you read Ezekiel, Chapter No 26, it says that…‘Nebuchader, he will destroyed Tyre.’ We come to know that Alexander the great, was the person who destroyed Tyre - Unfulfilled prophecy. Isaiah, Chapter No. 7, Verse No 14, says, prophesying of…‘The coming of a person who will be born to a virgin - his name shall be Emmanuel.’ They say… the Christians - it refers to Jesus Christ peace be upon him. Born to a virgin - the Hebrew word there is ‘amla’, which means not ‘a virgin’- ‘a young lady.’ The word for ‘virgin’ in Hebrew is, ‘baitula’, which is not there. Even if you agree - we are using concordance - we agree… ‘Virgin’… ‘Virgin’ - No problem. It says… ‘He will be called Immanuel.’ No where in the Bible is Jesus Christ peace be upon him, is called as Immanuel - Unfulfilled prophecy.

http://www.zroorz.com/allabout.php?query=Prophecy

Almah is a young woman who is a Virgin, research it yourself if you don’t believe me. I already have. You need to understand typology in the old testament to understand Immanuel. There are different types of prophecies and Matthew favours this type of foreshadowing. It’s a name that describes His essence is about Him like Isaiah 9v6 does. Jesus is called God with us by Christians.

Again, Mohammed doesnt deny that Jesus is the Christ. Furthermore Jesus said that He who confeseth that Jesus is the Christ is of God. Mohammed did.

You redefine Christ, use Isaiah 9v6 as your definition and we won’t have a problem:
Isa 9v6-7: For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Metaphorically. Not literally. Mohammed didnt deny the metaphorical father, God, or the metaphorical son, jesus. As I said in the language of my Jewish cousins, son of God is used to a rightouse man.

Allah says it is an abominable assertion to say God has a Son, by denying He has a Son you deny He is the Father and thus deny Jesus is the Son, denying Father and Son = antichrist. THE Son of God is the one all were looking for, the promised messiah of Isaiah 9v6 and other places.

Explain more please I dunno what you mean.

I’ll save it for another time.

Peace be unto you.

And to you from God the father and the Lord Jesus Christ. I mean that with all love and sincerity.

19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

(Numbers 23:19)

God is a Spirit, (John 4v24) manifest in Human flesh (1Tim3v16), that flesh is not God but the veil that covered His glory like when Moses came down from the mount and had to veil his face:
Ex 34v29-35: And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him.
And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him.
And Moses called unto them; and Aaron and all the rulers of the congregation returned unto him: and Moses talked with them.
And afterward all the children of Israel came nigh: and he gave them in commandment all that the LORD had spoken with him in Mount Sinai.
And till Moses had done speaking with them, he put a veil on his face.
But when Moses went in before the LORD to speak with him, he took the veil off, until he came out. And he came out, and spake unto the children of Israel that which he was commanded.
And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone: and Moses put the veil upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him.
In this picture the mount is heaven and Jesus is like Moses. Jesus came down from heaven veiled in humanity as man cannot look upon the radiance of God face to face and taught us the way of salvation and gave us an understanding.

Here is some light reading for you if you care to read it:
http://www.biblebelievers.com/jmelton/deity.html

 

[Booko]

I asked what is meant by the Christian world (no such thing exists in my mind) and what he has done for this Christian world.

And he answered you: Without Islam, Europe would not have had a Renaissance.

To explore this matter of history further would, of course, require a new thread.

 

[Booko]

Allah says it is an abominable assertion to say God has a Son, by denying He has a Son you deny He is the Father and thus deny Jesus is the Son, denying Father and Son = antichrist. THE Son of God is the one all were looking for, the promised messiah of Isaiah 9v6 and other places.

It is an abomination in the *physical* sense -- even you probably believe that, unless you are a Mormon and believe the God has a physical body?

The remark about God not having a son was in reference to an idea common among pagan Arabs at the time that even Christians regarded as heretical: That God had genitalia and came down and had physical relations with Mary. Um, that's not exactly the scenario I was taught in Sunday School. :cover:

It's the same sort of misunderstanding many non-Christians have had about the Eucharist -- people have been known to actually believe that Christians drink real blood.

But the "blood of Christ" just like the title "Son" -- are metaphorical. Let those who have ears to hear, etc.

God gives us many tests -- but never unfair ones.

So, to try and stay on topic here...exactly what was the problem with what the Quran says about God not having sons?

 

[*Paul*]

[/font][/size][/color]And he answered you: Without Islam, Europe would not have had a Renaissance.

To explore this matter of history further would, of course, require a new thread.

He never said what the Christian world was. If you say it is europe then isuppose Christendom is meant, but from my point of view there is no such thing.

 

[*Paul*]

So, to try and stay on topic here...exactly what was the problem with what the Quran says about God not having sons?

He says Mohammed never told a lie in his life, I said (quoted scripture rather) who is a liar but He that denieth the Father and the Son? (Maybe this a warning for us Christians) ((Just a thought))
The koran does not make it clear that it is talking of physical sonship being an abominable assertion. I'll look further into your interpretation of that one. But for now, i'm exhausted.

Take care Booko.

 

[*Paul*]

So, to try and stay on topic here...exactly what was the problem with what the Quran says about God not having sons?

He says Mohammed neevr told a lie in his life, i said who is a liar but He that denieth the Father and the Son. The koran does not make ot clear that it is talking of physical sonship being an abominable assertion. I'll look further into your interpretation of that one. But for now, i'm exhausted.

Take care Booko.

 

[Booko]

He says Mohammed neevr told a lie in his life, i said who is a liar but He that denieth the Father and the Son. The koran does not make ot clear that it is talking of physical sonship being an abominable assertion. I'll look further into your interpretation of that one. But for now, i'm exhausted.

I'm sure I don't need to tell you what interpretative mistakes can be made when reading the Bible, if you don't take into account historical and cultural background.

The same is true of any text, pretty much, not just religious ones. And it applies to the Quran as well.

The thing is, for English speakers in the West, it's not such a simple thing to track down the background info needed to understand a passage in the Quran.

What little background info I've gotten has been accumulated very slowly over 30 years or so. And it really is *little* :cover:

Also, I would not assume that an interpretation of the Quran is necessarily what Muhammad meant, any more than you, as a Christian, would necessarily assume Jewish interpretations of the Hebrew Testament are the only possible ones.

Even if we assume that God has spoken through Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, it's far too much to assume that we mere humans always understood what they meant. Hm...I think the case can be made that we get it wrong rather spectacularly at times.

It does make it rather a mess to sort things out, doesn't it?

Take care Booko.

You too! And get some rest!

 

[Popeyesays]

I think the Qur'an does make it clear that the concept of physical sonship is what is 'abominable'

"When the angel said, 'O Mary! verily, God gives thee the glad tidings of a Word from Him; his name shall be the Messiah Jesus the son of Mary, regarded in this world and the next and of those whose place is nigh to God. And he shall speak to people in his cradle, and when grown up, and shall be among the righteous.' She said, 'Lord! how can have a son, when man has not yet touched me?' He said, 'Thus God creates what He pleaseth. When He decrees a matter He only says BE and it is; and He will teach him the Book, and wisdom, and the law, and the gospel, and he shall be a prophet to the people of Israel (saying), that I have come to you, with a sign from God, namely, that I will create for you out of clay as though it were the form of a bird, and I will blow thereon and it shall become a bird by God's permission; and I will heal the blind from birth, and lepers; and I will bring the dead to life by God's permission; and I will tell you what you eat and what ye store up in your houses. Verily, in that is a sign for you if ye be believers. And I will confirm what is before you of the law, and will surely make lawful for you some of that which was prohibited from you. I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, so fear God and follow me, for God is my Lord, and your Lord, so worship Him:- this is the right path.'
And when Jesus perceived their unbelief, He said, 'Who are my helpers for God?' Said the apostles, 'We are God's helpers. We believe in God, so bear witness that we are resigned. Lord, we have believed in what Thou hast revealed, and we have followed the Apostle, so write us down with those which bear witness.' But they (the Jews) were crafty, and God was crafty, for God is the best of crafty ones! When God said, 'O Jesus! I will make Thee die and take Thee up again to me and will clear thee of those who misbelieve, and will make those who follow thee above those who misbelieve, at the day of judgment, then to me is your return. I will decide between you concerning that wherein ye disagree. And as for those who misbelieve, I will punish them with grievous punishment in this world and the next, and they shall have none to help them.' But as for those who believe and do what is right, He will pay them their reward, for God loves not the unjust.
That is what we recite to thee of the signs and of the wise reminder. Verily the likeness of Jesus with God is as the likeness of Adam. He created him from earth, then He said to him BE, and he was;- the truth from thy Lord, so be thou not of those who are in doubt. And whoso disputeth with thee after what has come to thee of knowledge, say, 'Come, let us call our sons and your sons, and our women and your women, and ourselves and yourselves: then we will imprecate and put God's curse on those who lie.' Verily, those are the true stories, and there is no god but God, and, verily, God He is the mighty, the wise; but if they turn back, God knows the evildoers.
(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 3 - Imran's Family)

I would stack this up with the basic Christian concept of Sonship and call it a match any day.

Regards,
Scott

 

[NoahideHiker]

so why have you left christianity?



but the quran says that ,and this what really matters to me ,


I respect you too , and i think we can agree to disagree sometimes ,
i believe that the single true path is , simply ,the one which can prove itself to be from god , and not (Man made),

and i believe that if we searched sincerely among the too many paths , we will find someone that is extraordinarily enlightened,
and that's it , that's the true path

I left christianity because I desided to study my faith from it'd beginings to find out where all these things I believed came from. I spent a year in study and prayer and shed many tears. It nearly destroyed my faith completely but I am much stronger now and understand so much more than I did before. The fact that I have been in multipul faiths is one of the reasons I am so tolerant of other religions. When I was a christain I had a close relationship with G-d and now that I am not a christian I still have a strong relationship with G-d.

Truth can be a very relative thing to individules and it is a matter of each person's level of 'emuna' or capacity for faith. Too much truth and it can overload and harm a person. I believe all attempts to reach out to the Creator are valid and I think G-d honors these attempts.

 

[KPereira]

I think the Qur'an does make it clear that the concept of physical sonship is what is 'abominable'

"When the angel said, 'O Mary! verily, God gives thee the glad tidings of a Word from Him; his name shall be the Messiah Jesus the son of Mary, regarded in this world and the next and of those whose place is nigh to God. And he shall speak to people in his cradle, and when grown up, and shall be among the righteous.' She said, 'Lord! how can have a son, when man has not yet touched me?' He said, 'Thus God creates what He pleaseth. When He decrees a matter He only says BE and it is; and He will teach him the Book, and wisdom, and the law, and the gospel, and he shall be a prophet to the people of Israel (saying), that I have come to you, with a sign from God, namely, that I will create for you out of clay as though it were the form of a bird, and I will blow thereon and it shall become a bird by God's permission; and I will heal the blind from birth, and lepers; and I will bring the dead to life by God's permission; and I will tell you what you eat and what ye store up in your houses. Verily, in that is a sign for you if ye be believers. And I will confirm what is before you of the law, and will surely make lawful for you some of that which was prohibited from you. I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, so fear God and follow me, for God is my Lord, and your Lord, so worship Him:- this is the right path.'
And when Jesus perceived their unbelief, He said, 'Who are my helpers for God?' Said the apostles, 'We are God's helpers. We believe in God, so bear witness that we are resigned. Lord, we have believed in what Thou hast revealed, and we have followed the Apostle, so write us down with those which bear witness.' But they (the Jews) were crafty, and God was crafty, for God is the best of crafty ones! When God said, 'O Jesus! I will make Thee die and take Thee up again to me and will clear thee of those who misbelieve, and will make those who follow thee above those who misbelieve, at the day of judgment, then to me is your return. I will decide between you concerning that wherein ye disagree. And as for those who misbelieve, I will punish them with grievous punishment in this world and the next, and they shall have none to help them.' But as for those who believe and do what is right, He will pay them their reward, for God loves not the unjust.
That is what we recite to thee of the signs and of the wise reminder. Verily the likeness of Jesus with God is as the likeness of Adam. He created him from earth, then He said to him BE, and he was;- the truth from thy Lord, so be thou not of those who are in doubt. And whoso disputeth with thee after what has come to thee of knowledge, say, 'Come, let us call our sons and your sons, and our women and your women, and ourselves and yourselves: then we will imprecate and put God's curse on those who lie.' Verily, those are the true stories, and there is no god but God, and, verily, God He is the mighty, the wise; but if they turn back, God knows the evildoers.
(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 3 - Imran's Family)

I would stack this up with the basic Christian concept of Sonship and call it a match any day.

Regards,
Scott

"When the angel said, 'O Mary! verily, God gives thee the glad tidings of a Word from Him; his name shall be the Messiah Jesus the son of Mary, regarded in this world and the next and of those whose place is nigh to God. And he shall speak to people in his cradle, and when grown up, and shall be among the righteous.' She said, 'Lord! how can have a son, when man has not yet touched me?' He said, 'Thus God creates what He pleaseth.When He decrees a matter He only says BE and it is; and He will teach him the Book, and wisdom, and the law, and the gospel, and he shall be a prophet to the people of Israel (saying), that I have come to you, with a sign from God, namely, that I will create for you out of clay as though it were the form of a bird, and I will blow thereon and it shall become a bird by God's permission; and I will heal the blind from birth, and lepers; and I will bring the dead to life by God's permission; and I will tell you what you eat and what ye store up in your houses. Verily, in that is a sign for you if ye be believers."

If all the prophets before Jesus were only divinely inspired by God...what would be the reasoning behind God creating a prophet? Why wouldn't God simply divinely inspire someone else? It would only make sense that Jesus was the Son of God, as it says right there in the Quran. God planted His seed in Mary to create Jesus. It only makes sense to me that Jesus is the Son of God, not just a prophet.

 

[Popeyesays]

"When the angel said, 'O Mary! verily, God gives thee the glad tidings of a Word from Him; his name shall be the Messiah Jesus the son of Mary, regarded in this world and the next and of those whose place is nigh to God. And he shall speak to people in his cradle, and when grown up, and shall be among the righteous.' She said, 'Lord! how can have a son, when man has not yet touched me?' He said, 'Thus God creates what He pleaseth.When He decrees a matter He only says BE and it is; and He will teach him the Book, and wisdom, and the law, and the gospel, and he shall be a prophet to the people of Israel (saying), that I have come to you, with a sign from God, namely, that I will create for you out of clay as though it were the form of a bird, and I will blow thereon and it shall become a bird by God's permission; and I will heal the blind from birth, and lepers; and I will bring the dead to life by God's permission; and I will tell you what you eat and what ye store up in your houses. Verily, in that is a sign for you if ye be believers."

If all the prophets before Jesus were only divinely inspired by God...what would be the reasoning behind God creating a prophet? Why wouldn't God simply divinely inspire someone else? It would only make sense that Jesus was the Son of God, as it says right there in the Quran. God planted His seed in Mary to create Jesus. It only makes sense to me that Jesus is the Son of God, not just a prophet.

Muhammad also states clearly that all the Apostles of God are of the same stature. Moses did not say that the Messiah would be greater than He, Himself or Abraham before Him.

When the Light of God shines upon the world, what difference does it make which Lamp is lit. To revere the Lamp beyond the Light is silly, is it not?

Regards,
Scott

 

[maro]

I left christianity because I desided to study my faith from it'd beginings to find out where all these things I believed came from. I spent a year in study and prayer and shed many tears. It nearly destroyed my faith completely but I am much stronger now and understand so much more than I did before.

what i understand is that, after a year of studying the basics of your christian beliefs,
your Faith was completely destroyed , and then you decided to leave christianity ,to embrace your new monotheistic religion ,

so , you are telling me that we have to use our minds ,educate our selves , and revise our inherited beliefs to find the correct path ,

but when i have told you before that there must be a true path for us to find , you disagreed with me ,
and said that every path is a true path ,as long as we can have a relation with God

i am sorry , but this seem a little confusing to me

 

[gnostic]

Being illiterate or not, doesn't make a person a prophet.

Have you ever heard of oral tradition?

 

[YmirGF]

The PROOF of Muhammad is the same as the PROOF of Jesus Christ--His person and His Book.This is also the PROOF of Moses, Abraham, Buddha, Zoroaster, Krshna, the Bab and Baha`u'llah. He makes the claim and it is up to the individual to accept or deny, there is no other choice.

Regards,
Scott

I guess my own book will be my own proof, eh?

 

[Popeyesays]

I guess my own book will be my own proof, eh?

Are you laying claim to be a Manifestation of God? If so, yes.

Regards,
Scott