The prophets tell us that THE SCRIBES HAD CHANGED THE GOD'S LAW

[paarsurrey]

Torah and Tanakh are pre-Christian and were written for Jews by Jews and are not viewed equally because both the Covenant and the Law applies to us.

You mean Torah and or Tanakh are not Word of G-d?

Regards

 

[Avi1001]

You mean Torah and or Tanakh are not Word of G-d?
Regards

OMG, were you born yesterday? G-d cannot write. These texts were written by man for man. They are G-d inspired.

Can you bring your Imam into this discussion? I think we should introduce him to our people.

 

[metis]

Christianity values the entire Tanakh equally, it necessitates importance.

I would say not, because if there was equal value then Christians would be observing the entire Law, or at least trying to do so. Yes, Christians consider Torah to be important, but definitely not at the same level.

 

[metis]

You mean Torah and or Tanakh are not Word of G-d?

Regards

You haven't answered my questions.

 

[Desert Snake]

I would say not, because if there was equal value then Christians would be observing the entire Law, or at least trying to do so. Yes, Christians consider Torah to be important, but definitely not at the same level.

We're really not agreeing here, then. My point was that Christianity places equal value on the entire Tanakh, really has nothing to do with the Torah laws that were abolished by Jesus.

 

[metis]

We're really not agreeing here, then. My point was that Christianity places equal value on the entire Tanakh, really has nothing to do with the Torah laws that were abolished by Jesus.

How could two things be equal if one of them is largely not followed? Secondly, are you really certain that Jesus abandoned the Law and taught his apostles to do the same?

 

[Desert Snake]

How could two things be equal if one of them is largely not followed? Secondly, are you really certain that Jesus abandoned the Law and taught his apostles to do the same?

Certain aspects of the law, speaking for myself, yes, I'm certain. I think the texts even back this up.
Other rules, no, but we have to keep in mind Jesus had Gentile followers, there is a practilcality issue here, and just the fact that Gentiles won't or can't follow certain Torah law.

 

[Flankerl]

I like it that we now have just one thread for all the "let me tell you about Judaism"-people on the forum.

Makes it easier to follow everything.
Though iam beginning to question whether some people actually got a life.


So this thread gets 3 out of 5 Stars.

 

[paarsurrey]

How could two things be equal if one of them is largely not followed? Secondly, are you really certain that Jesus abandoned the Law and taught his apostles to do the same?

It is totally wrong to allege that Jesus abandoned the Law of Moses. The modern Christianity follows Paul’s Theology not Jesus’ teachings. It is Paul who abandoned Moses’ Law and named Pauline Theology as New Testament; it has got nothing to do with Jesus and his teachings.

Regards

 

[CMike]

It is totally wrong to allege that Jesus abandoned the Law of Moses. The modern Christianity follows Paul’s Theology not Jesus’ teachings. It is Paul who abandoned Moses’ Law and named Pauline Theology as New Testament; it has got nothing to do with Jesus and his teachings.

Regards

It's the laws of G-d not Moses.

 

[Sabour]

It's the laws of G-d not Moses.

Isn't what you are discussing what is actually meant when Jesus peace be upon him said I came to fulfill the law ?

 

[Flankerl]

Isn't what you are discussing what is actually meant when Jesus peace be upon him said I came to fulfill the law ?

Its really not rocket science.


Lets say i dont murder two people. By not doing that i keep a specific law.
By a very weird logic i uphold the law twice.

But that doesnt mean that i upheld it for another jew. Another jew, lets name him CMike now cant run around and murder someone because i already kept the law for him.

Why? Because keeping the law is a personal matter that no one can do for you.

 

[CMike]

Its really not rocket science.


Lets say i dont murder two people. By not doing that i keep a specific law.
By a very weird logic i uphold the law twice.

But that doesnt mean that i upheld it for another jew. Another jew, lets name him CMike now cant run around and murder someone because i already kept the law for him.

Why? Because keeping the law is a personal matter that no one can do for you.

Absolutely correct.

The way you fulfill the law is by keeping it.

No one can do that for you.

 

[Sabour]

Absolutely correct.

The way you fulfill the law is by keeping it.

No one can do that for you.

True, if he was not a prophet and the Messiah.

 

[Flankerl]

True, if he was not a prophet and the Messiah.

Even a prophet cant keep the law for you.

Its completely impossible for anyone keeping the law for anyone else.

 

[Desert Snake]

Absolutely correct.

The way you fulfill the law is by keeping it.

No one can do that for you.

How we act matters, not whether we eat lobster or not.

 

[paarsurrey]

OMG, were you born yesterday? G-d cannot write. These texts were written by man for man. They are G-d inspired.

Can you bring your Imam into this discussion? I think we should introduce him to our people.

I wrote “Word of God”. I did not mention it was written by G-d.

Please

Regards

 

[Flankerl]

How we act matters, not whether we eat lobster or not.

 

[Avi1001]

I wrote “Word of God”. I did not mention it was written by G-d.

Please

Regards

Ok, cool. I would like to speak to your Imam. Can you bring him to this forum ?

I will give you access to my Rabbi. His name is Rabbio. He seems to like you already.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I don't believe that and don't see how one can prove it. For instance if a person who claims to be Christian steals, it is not because Christianity defines stealing as good but because the person does not really have Jesus as Lord. Jesus will not allow me to steal.

I believe your reasoning is flawed because faith precedes experience and therefore can't be a member of it. A Christian faith will produce a Christian experience but not all things called Christian are truly Christian.

I certainly believe those who have not lived by the Christian faith and have done evil give Christianity a bad image but I believe a person so easily fooled by counterfeits deserve to have false ideas about Christianty.

I believe we are weak as are all people but we live by the grace of God. If another man enters into sin because he was not able to receive that grace, it is not a reflection on whether I am able to receive that grace. Grace is a free gift and anyone can have it.

Hi Muffled. Just catching up on the thread, and I'm responding to your post.

I think it is irresponsible to say that Christians today aren't responsible for what Christians of the past have done wrong. Consider St. Augustine for example. Here is a 'Sainted' Christian who has obviously wrongly spoken ill of Jews. Are we going to do the responsible thing now that we understand his error and own up to it or are we going to say that he made a mistake but that it isn't really related to us?

Also your statement "I believe your reasoning is flawed because faith precedes experience and therefore can't be a member of it." I can't agree with, because faith is the substance of things hoped for and evidence of unseen things, not the other way around. You seem to be saying that the unseen is the evidence of faith and focus upon proper doctrines. Faithfulness is the real root of 'Faith', and belief is something that you hope grows up as a spiritual fruit, and love covers a multitude of (doctrinal) sins.

I agree that there are and have been counterfeit Christians. They are the 'Tares' Jesus mentions that grow up with the wheat which cannot be judged in this life according to doctrines. All grow up together in one field, and that is the Christian life. I realize sometimes individuals have to say goodbye when another person claims to be Christian and wants to live some other way. That is not the same as taking God's place, and I'm talking about not taking God's place of judging the internals of people, trying to get into their heads.

Grace. Proverbs 18:24 mentions that there are people who claim to be friends that will forsake you when they don't like something about you, but they aren't real friends. If Christians are one body, then they don't instantly cut one another off just because they don't like something about someone else. In specific if you disagree with someone about, oh, predestination or something like that its no reason to cut them off. By the same token if they have problem with sin, then its your problem too. Here is Jesus letting himself be numbered with transgressors, but they refuse to be associated with each other. That is not right.