The Qur'an allows sex-slaves...!?

[Godobeyer]

on se tutoie?

Je voudrais un verset de Mahomet liberer les esclaves.

https://islamqa.info/fr/94840


un hadith sacré: «Au jour de la Résurrection, je serai l'adversaire de trois personnes. Et quiconque est mon adversaire sera vaincu. Parmi les trois personnes, Il a cité un homme qui a vendu une personne libre et utilisé son prix.» (Rapporté par al-Boukhari,2227)

 

[firedragon]

What would this country look like? Imagine it in your head and describe it to us.

Greet people well

And if you are greeted with a greeting, then return an even better greeting or return the same. God is Reckoning over all things - Quran 4:86

Humility

And be humble in how you walk and lower your voice. For the harshest of all voices is the voice of the donkeys. - Quran 31:19

Invite to your path with wisdom and good advice

Invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and good advice, and argue with them in that which is better. Your Lord is fully aware of who is misguided from His path, and He is fully aware of the guided ones. - Quran 16:125

Kindness to parents

And your Lord decreed that you shall not serve except He, and do good to your parents. When one of them or both of them reach old age, do not say to them a word of disrespect nor shout at them, but say to them a kind saying. And lower for them the wing of humility through mercy, and say: ‘My Lord, have mercy upon them as they have raised me when I was small. - Quran 17:23-24

Speak well with good words

Have you not seen how God puts forth the example that a good word is like a good tree, whose root is firm and whose branches are in the heaven. It bears its fruit every so often with the permission of its Lord; and God puts forth the examples for the people, perhaps they will remember. - Quran 14:24-25

Do not speak with bad words

And the example of a bad word is like a tree which has been uprooted from the surface of the earth, it has nowhere to settle. - Quran 14:26

Patience and mercy

And race towards forgiveness from your Lord and a Paradise whose width encompasses the width of the heavens and of the earth; it has been prepared for the righteous. The ones who spend in prosperity and adversity, and who repress anger, and who pardon the people; God loves the good doers. - Quran 3:133-134
Practice goodness against your enemy

Not equal are the good and the bad response. You shall resort to the one which is better. Thus, the one who used to be your enemy, may become your best friend. - Quran 41:34

Do not be arrogant or insolent

And do not turn your cheek arrogantly from people, nor shall you roam the earth insolently. For God does not love the arrogant show off. - Quran 31:18

Humility and wisdom

And the servants of the Almighty who walk on the earth in humility and if the ignorant speak to them, they say: ‘Peace. - Quran 25:63

Don’t insult those of other religions. Do not play God.

And do not insult those who call on other than God, lest they insult God out of ignorance. And We have similarly adorned for every nation their works; then to their Lord is their return and He will inform them of what they had done. - Quran 6:108

Do not mock others

O you who believe, let not a people ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names; miserable indeed is the name of wickedness after attaining faith. And anyone who does not repent, then these are the transgressors.” - Quran 49:11

Do not practice suspicion and backbiting

O you who believe, you shall avoid much suspicion, for some suspicion is sinful. And do not spy on one another, nor shall you backbite. Would any of you enjoy eating the flesh of his dead brother? You certainly would hate this. You shall observe God. God is Redeemer, Merciful. - Quran 49:12

No racism

O mankind, We created you from a male and female, and We made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Surely, the most honourable among you in the sight of God is the most righteous. God is Knowledgeable, Expert.” - Quran
49:13

17:36 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these you are responsible for.

Freedom of Creed
10:99 And had your Lord willed, all the people on the Earth in their entirety would have believed. Would you force the people to make them believe?


Respect for individual privacy
24:27 O you who believe, do not enter any homes except your own unless you are invited and you greet the people in them. This is best for you, perhaps you will remember.


Equality
49:12 O you who believe, you shall avoid much suspicion, for some suspicion is sinful. And do not spy on one another, nor shall you backbite. Would any of you enjoy eating the flesh of his dead brother? You certainly would hate this. You shall observe God. God is Redeemer, Merciful.
49:13 O mankind, We created you from a male and female, and We made you into
nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Surely, the most honorable among you in the sight of God is the most righteous. God is Knowledgeable, Expert.


Welfare
30:38 So give the relative his due, and the poor, and the wayfarer. That is best for those who seek God's presence, and they are the successful ones.


No Usury
30:39 And any usury you have taken to grow from the people's money, it will not grow with God. And any contribution that you have placed seeking His presence, then those will be multiplied.
3:130 O you who believe, do not consume usury, compounding over and over; and reverence God that you may succeed.


Right to travel
29:56 "O My servants who believed, My Earth is spacious, so serve only Me."


No eternal/perpetual circulation of wealth (No Monopolization)
59:7 And whatever God provided to His messenger from the people of the townships,
then it shall be to God and His messenger, and the relatives, and the orphans, and the poor, and the wayfarer. Thus, it will not remain perpetual circulation by the rich among you. And you may take what the messenger gives you, but do not take what
he withholds you from taking. And be aware of God, for God is mighty in retribution.


''My four children will one day live in a nation, when they will not be judged by the colour of their skin, but by the content of their character'' - Martin Luther King


No racism
49:13 O mankind, We created you from a male and female, and We made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Surely, the most honorable among you in the sight of God is the most righteous. God is Knowledgeable, Expert.


No false slander. But you can stand up for your rights
148. Allah does not love the public mention of evil words, except by the one who has been wronged. And Allah is All-Hearing, All- Knowing.


Justice
42:39 And those who, when gross injustice befalls them, they seek justice.


Right to demand justice
42:41 And for any who demand action after being wronged, those are not committing any error.


No oppression.
42:42 The error is upon those who oppress the people, and they aggress in the land without cause. For these will be a painful retribution.


Right to borrowed property
4:58 God orders you to deliver anything you have been entrusted with to its owners. And if you judge between the people, then you shall judge with justice. It is always the best that God prescribes for you. God is Hearer, Seer.


Do not harm the environment
55:7 And He raised the heaven and He established the balance.
55:8 Do not transgress in the balance.


Innocence until proven guilty
24:11 Those who have brought forth the false accusation were a group from within you. Do not think it is bad for you, for it is good for you. Every person among them
will have what he deserves of the sin. And as for he who had the greatest portion of it, he will have a great retribution.


Punishment cannot exceed the gravity of the crime
16:126 And if you punish, then punish with equivalence to that which you were punished. And if you are patient then it is better for the patient ones.

You must fight on behalf of the weak
4:75 And why do you not fight in the cause of God, when the weak among the men and women and children say: “Our Lord, bring us out of this town whose people are wicked, and grant us from Yourself a Supporter, and grant us from Yourself a Victor!”


Charities to be used for just cause
9:60 The charities are to go to the poor, and the needy, and those who work to collect them, and those whose hearts have been united, and to free the slaves, and those in debt, and in the cause of God, and the wayfarer. A duty from God, and God is Knowledgeable, Wise.


You cannot kill unjustly
17:33 And do not kill, for God has made this forbidden, except in the course of justice. And whoever is killed innocently, then We have given his heir authority, so let him not transgress in the taking of a life, for He will be given victory.


Just cause to kill is aggression, but you are not allowed to be the aggressor.
2:190 And fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not
transgress, God does not like the aggressors.
2:191 And kill them wherever you overcome them, and expel them from where they expelled you, and know that persecution is worse than being killed. And do not fight them at the Sacred Temple unless they fight you in it; if they fight you then kill them, thus is the recompense of the disbelievers.
2:192 And if they cease, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.
2:193 And fight them so there is no more persecution, and so that the system is
God’s. If they cease, then there will be no aggression except against the wicked.

 

[Godobeyer]

There exists elements of slavery in practically every country, mostly underground. Out of curiosity, do you hold Indonesia as an 'example' and good representation of a muslim nation acting accordingly

Slavery is not exists in Muslim world no more as commun behave, expect in parts Mouritania, but they fighting it.

Slavery still exists in most parts of the world, including the muslim world.?
Not all prostitutes are slaves.

In subject of "Red Light District" , or strip clubs, I consider to call it modern slavery.

 

[illykitty]

Is there then a way for someone who doesn't speak Arabic to verify this information themselves?

Also, I was always under the impression that slavery was "permitted" in Islam, to an extent (cannot mistreat them), and that freeing slaves was encouraged. I can see however how this could cause discomfort, as it doesn't seem like the best moral behaviour to allow it.

And as for my last point, some Muslims need to stop telling us how horrible the West is. As someone born and living in the West, there are many things I disagree with in my society. I don't think it's perfect, very far from it. But Muslims claim Islam is perfect... So when we question this perfect claim, it is better for you to argue this, instead of saying the West is imperfect. I'd wager that most of us don't think it is. I certainly don't.

 

[Raahim]

You guys, Debater Slayer said he was going to be offline for like a week.

Edit: Can't @Smart_Guy help?

 

[firedragon]

Is there then a way for someone who doesn't speak Arabic to verify this information themselves?

Also, I was always under the impression that slavery was "permitted" in Islam, to an extent (cannot mistreat them), and that freeing slaves was encouraged. I can see however how this could cause discomfort, as it doesn't seem like the best moral behaviour to allow it.

And as for my last point, some Muslims need to stop telling us how horrible the West is. As someone born and living in the West, there are many things I disagree with in my society. I don't think it's perfect, very far from it. But Muslims claim Islam is perfect... So when we question this perfect claim, it is better for you to argue this, instead of saying the West is imperfect. I'd wager that most of us don't think it is. I certainly don't.

I get thirstier when I have to agree. Lol.

I am Muslim. My sister lives in the U.S. My brother is a pro martial artist in Australia. MMA silver medalist Asiapacific (Proud rant). My other sister lives in Dubai. As a country thats fair in the treatment of its inhabitants, I hate Dubai the most.

But we also must understand that people have gone so far in their own interpretation with too many external documents of Islam that it seems hopeless. So far away.

They are going directly against the Quran in so many ways, so what Islam is that?

Thus I agree with you, we have to be fair in discourse.

 

[Rival]

https://islamqa.info/fr/94840


un hadith sacré: «Au jour de la Résurrection, je serai l'adversaire de trois personnes. Et quiconque est mon adversaire sera vaincu. Parmi les trois personnes, Il a cité un homme qui a vendu une personne libre et utilisé son prix.» (Rapporté par al-Boukhari,2227)

Mais, Mahoment a achete des esclaves et...

A man from the Ansar called Basrah said: I married a virgin woman in her veil. When I entered upon her, I found her pregnant. (I mentioned this to the Prophet). The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: She will get the dower, for you made her vagina lawful for you. The child will be your slave. When she has begotten (a child), flog her (according to the version of al-Hasan). The version of Ibn AbusSari has: You people, flog her, or said: inflict hard punishment on him.
Abu Dawud: 11:2126

(Je ne trouve pas en francais! )

 

[FearGod]

Is there then a way for someone who doesn't speak Arabic to verify this information themselves?

Also, I was always under the impression that slavery was "permitted" in Islam, to an extent (cannot mistreat them), and that freeing slaves was encouraged. I can see however how this could cause discomfort, as it doesn't seem like the best moral behaviour to allow it.

And as for my last point, some Muslims need to stop telling us how horrible the West is. As someone born and living in the West, there are many things I disagree with in my society. I don't think it's perfect, very far from it. But Muslims claim Islam is perfect... So when we question this perfect claim, it is better for you to argue this, instead of saying the West is imperfect. I'd wager that most of us don't think it is. I certainly don't.

English explanations are available, but if someone doesn't want to believe then he won't believe.
http://misconceptions-about-islam.com/islam-quran-abolish-slavery.htm

 

[illykitty]

English explanations are available, but if someone doesn't want to believe then he won't believe.
http://misconceptions-about-islam.com/islam-quran-abolish-slavery.htm

True, some people don't want to remove their prejudice, but you never know if someone might find this thread and have a change of heart about it. Not everyone who has initially a misconception remain that way, so best try to answer.

And I wanted to see maybe if there was a way to translate the Arabic into English, to view what the words mean, but I guess it's maybe complicated. Because as said, translators can add their own views or interpretation into what is written, so a more direct approach might be useful... But I know next to nothing about Arabic apart from the few words I managed to learn (with difficulty, I have trouble pronouncing a lot of the sounds).

 

[FearGod]

True, some people don't want to remove their prejudice, but you never know if someone might find this thread and have a change of heart about it. Not everyone who has initially a misconception remain that way, so best try to answer.

And I wanted to see maybe if there was a way to translate the Arabic into English, to view what the words mean, but I guess it's maybe complicated. Because as said, translators can add their own views or interpretation into what is written, so a more direct approach might be useful... But I know next to nothing about Arabic apart from the few words I managed to learn (with difficulty, I have trouble pronouncing a lot of the sounds).

I understand the difficulties in understanding the language.

In our days the best thing to do is to avoid the bad deeds and just to ask for the guidance from the one that me and you don't know,
but believing in the stone isn't the right way IMO.

 

[Sabour]

it doesn't seem like the best moral behaviour to allow it.

What would you suggest ?

 

[Nefelie]

Islam is may the only religion which enourage free slaves in world!

I love it when you (as in Muslims) try to twist things and make a bad thing look good…

Slavery is not backed by Islam. If a book talks about a problem and provides solution for it, it doesn't mean that the book support it. If I came with a long term plan to gradually stop slavery without any damages, it doesn't mean I am supporting it.

Then it (as in the Qur’an) should stay at “better not have slaves” and do not give guidance on what to do when you have slaves. This is all such an oxymoron.

It doesnt say sex. Nor does it say carnal desire. The word sex is found in some websites, mostly anti Islamic websites. We can be honest about it.

look at 0:28 which is 23:5-6.

It is with Greek subtitles. I do not speak Arabic. Would you rather me giving you this actual source of mine? I made the translation. “σαρκικά πάθη” translates to “carnal passions” or “carnal desires”, “γενετήσιο οργασμό” to “sexual orgasm” and “τις αιχμαλώτους” translates to “captives” or “slaves”. You can check it with google translator.

And I don’t think that it’s that much different from the quran.com translation.

...And by the way, the video in the OP talks about sex slaves too.

.

 

[Sabour]

Then it (as in the Qur’an) should stay at “better not have slaves” and do not give guidance on what to do when you have slaves.

Why is that? Islam is a complete way of life when it should have solutions for problems such as slavery and wars and others ....

Because these are real things that happen in real life.

 

[illykitty]

What would you suggest ?

Honestly, I am not 100% sure. I think perhaps my biggest issue with it is that it doesn't seem to encourage the elimination of slavery enough. I can see where it does take in current social situation of the time and tries to better it, but perhaps because I don't know Arabic I don't know what it exactly says... So all I can do is base it on English translations which don't seem to push the liberation side of it enough. To me it should make it an important point to not keep the system going, but to destroy it.

I can think of a few things but I'm not sure if any of them is a good or worded well enough. Here's some examples, one of them or all could be a sacred book:

-Every person needs to free at least one slave in their lifetime, if they have the means to do it.
-It is not allowed to create more slaves (like waging war and enslaving the people) and children of slaves are born free, no matter who the father is (so this rule would make the number fall to zero eventually, pretty quickly).
-It is not permitted for a person to own slaves, they can only free them and can employ them afterwards as servants (and treat them well).

I used the word person here, since I don't think it's a Muslim only problem, but a self-claiming "perfect religion" problem.

Maybe I'm wrong... Do you think it was impossible to have a slave-free culture back then? Why?

 

[Sakeenah]

Just wanted to share this In-depth video on slavery in Islam,it also talks about modern day slavery.

 

[illykitty]

Ok well, I decided to give it a shot. I copied what the Arabic writing is from the Quran.com website into Google translate (I know it's not perfect but it can be ok) and here's the result:

23:5
وَالَّذِينَ هُمْ لِفُرُوجِهِمْ حَافِظُونَ
translated into
"And those who guard their chastity"


23:6
إِلَّا عَلَىٰ أَزْوَاجِهِمْ أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُهُمْ فَإِنَّهُمْ غَيْرُ مَلُومِينَ
translated into
"Except from their wives or possess their oaths , they are not to blame"

Now, what "possess their oaths" means, I have no idea.

 

[Sabour]

Maybe I'm wrong... Do you think it was impossible to have a slave-free culture back then? Why?

I believe that having it all end at once will have negative impact.

If it was instantly forbidden, that wouldn't mean the problem is solved. There will be tension of both sides given the treatment they were given. Instead, there must be first like a sense of brotherhood between the "slaves" and the other people. Rights should be given to them. At the same time, freeing slave should be encouraged.

These are the exact sames Islam did and these are the points I tried to illustrate in a previous reply.

 

[Shaul]

In fact Islam makes it an article of faith and redemption from sin to free a slave. Doesnt say your slave, but A SLAVE.

1. You cant have slaves
2. You must free slaves.

Since its inception Muslims have owned and traded in slaves. Your denials don't change the facts of history. Muslims continue to practice slavery still today. For example, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6455365.stm

 

[Godobeyer]

I love it when you (as in Muslims) try to twist things and make a bad thing look good…
.

It's fact ,I am not try to change.

 

[firedragon]

Since its inception Muslims have owned and traded in slaves. Your denials don't change the facts of history. Muslims continue to practice slavery still today. For example, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6455365.stm

Christians had slaves in the U.S. That does not allow me to accuse Christianity propagates slavery. If you wanna have a history discussion, open a thread Shaul. If you wanna have theological discussion, call it Islam, Christianity or any theology you like.

Lets climb over that fence.