The Qur'an allows sex-slaves...!?

[YmirGF]

Mauritania did

Pretty small potatoes in the grand scheme of things....

 

[Demonslayer]

If Qur'an was given in this time (where slavery was not an global issue) it wouldn't be mentioned at all, since in the time Qur'an was given had slavery as huge issue around the globe it had to deal with it in moral ways.

That's exactly my point, slavery is included in the holy books because slavery was accepted at the time they were written.

If these books were inspired by an eternal supreme moral being, there would be one statement and one statement only...

"SLAVERY IS WRONG, CUT IT OUT!"
- God

God wouldn't look down and say "Well, humans enslaving other humans is about the worst thing you can do morally...but since the humans of this time seem to be into it, I'll allow it in My Morality Book that I'm about to write, so I won't tip the apple cart" Can you imagine the most Moral Being in the Universe allowing for slavery at any time, no matter what?

 

[Tomorrows_Child]

Then why did it take Western colonial influence in the Middle East to put said outlawing of slavery into practice in actual lawmaking? Why were there no pro-abolition movements in the Muslim world prior to this?

whaaaaaaaat? Colonialism stopped slavery? Did you just actually type that? Wow, there's desperate and then there's this.

 

[Nietzsche]

whaaaaaaaat? Colonialism stopped slavery? Did you just actually type that? Wow, there's desperate and then there's this.

He's grossly over-simplifying it, but the general "fight" against slavery was indeed headed initially by European powers. However, in the interest of fairness, that was only after they've spent the past couple of centuries making a mint on the backs of slave labour.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

whaaaaaaaat? Colonialism stopped slavery? Did you just actually type that? Wow, there's desperate and then there's this.

I said "colonial influence in the Middle East outlawed slavery". There will always be a criminal element that will engage in it regardless. To be more specific, by "Middle East" I mean the territories of the former Ottoman Empire.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

He's grossly over-simplifying it, but the general "fight" against slavery was indeed headed initially by European powers. However, in the interest of fairness, that was only after they've spent the past couple of centuries making a mint on the backs of slave labour.

Duly noted.

 

[Tomorrows_Child]

He's grossly over-simplifying it, but the general "fight" against slavery was indeed headed initially by European powers. However, in the interest of fairness, that was only after they've spent the past couple of centuries making a mint on the backs of slave labour.

No, the fight against slavery was never led by europeans. It was led by those slaves who decided to stand up for themselves, through political or violent means.

 

[Tomorrows_Child]

I said "colonial influence in the Middle East outlawed slavery". There will always be a criminal element that will engage in it regardless. To be more specific, by "Middle East" I mean the territories of the former Ottoman Empire.

Islam had outlawed slavery over 1400 years ago. Show me a single, unequivocal verse in the quran which states Muslims should go and purchase slaves or treat people badly due to their skin colour or nationality? If you can not, this so called discussion stops here.

 

[Raahim]

That's exactly my point, slavery is included in the holy books because slavery was accepted at the time they were written.

If these books were inspired by an eternal supreme moral being, there would be one statement and one statement only...

"SLAVERY IS WRONG, CUT IT OUT!"
- God

God wouldn't look down and say "Well, humans enslaving other humans is about the worst thing you can do morally...but since the humans of this time seem to be into it, I'll allow it in My Morality Book that I'm about to write, so I won't tip the apple cart" Can you imagine the most Moral Being in the Universe allowing for slavery at any time, no matter what?

Qur'an says that, not exactly in those words, but the message is "Slavery is wrong, stop it."

Well we can't know for sure if slave related verses in books before Qur'an were added later to suit someone's needs of owning slaves, but Qur'an as being a book that is not changed through history says that if you do have a slave best thing you can do is free that slave. I really encourage people to see the video posted by @Sakeenah

 

[Nietzsche]

No, the fight against slavery was never led by europeans. It was led by those slaves who decided to stand up for themselves, through political or violent means.

Is that so? So the British enforcing an absolute ban of the slave-trade was, what, superfluous?

 

[FearGod]

I think 0ne means emancipating all the slaves in Muhammad's time would have caused more problems than it solved - problems to do with where would these newly freed people live? What jobs would they have? Who would pay them? etc

Of course it fails to address the fact that if they had wanted to. The Muslims could have focussed their efforts on social reform, building new homes in anticipation of the whole pool of new free men, women & children who were about to become full citizens of whichever city they lived in. But no, they chose to subjugate & forcefully convert Arabs including the city of Ta'if, then to spread Islam by invading other powers instead.

Priorities...

Do you think your civilized society is free from slavery today?
Yes or no

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Islam had outlawed slavery over 1400 years ago.

No it didn't. Muslims both traded in and owned slaves for over a thousand years before its abolition began with the end of the Ottoman Empire. Stop lying.

Show me a single, unequivocal verse in the quran which states Muslims should go and purchase slaves or treat people badly due to their skin colour or nationality? If you can not, this so called discussion stops here.

You know I can't because no such verse explicitly says either of those things. Kent Hovind challenge dismissed. What about the verses which Rival has mentioned? The ones that talk about "that which your right hands possess"? What about the Sahih Muslim Hadith she mentioned? You're conveniently skipping over all these things that show slavery was as normal to Muhammad as the sand of the desert.

If Islam outlawed slavery why does the Quran mention it only in terms of a normal, accepted social concept? Treat your slaves kindly, feed them of what you eat, clothe them from what you wear; freeing them is an act of extraordinary devotion? None of that screams "slavery is forbidden by Allah". Further, how can you demonstrate your Islamic piety by freeing slaves if slavery isn't around because it's outlawed?

Could you tell me if there's a Quran verse that says Muslims aren't ever allowed to own slaves? Any verse that says Allah forbids the practice? Can you explain why Muhammad was a slave owner if Islam forbade it?

No, the fight against slavery was never led by europeans. It was led by those slaves who decided to stand up for themselves, through political or violent means.

Now you're pissing into the wind. Britain was the first European power of the age to outlaw slavery. It did so in 1807 for the British home islands and in 1833 for the rest of the Empire - both after years of tireless campaigning by men like William Wilberforce and Thomas Clarkson. Can you name any abolition movement in the Muslim world that caught on before that?

I suggest you pick up a book on the subject.

Do you think your civilized society is free from slavery today?
Yes or no

It's illegal here. When human trafficking victims are found we treat them humanely, or try to. When human traffickers (aka modern slavers) are caught, they're punished. I don't think we're free of it, but criminal elements will act without regard for the law.

 

[Demonslayer]

Islam had outlawed slavery over 1400 years ago. Show me a single, unequivocal verse in the quran which states Muslims should go and purchase slaves or treat people badly due to their skin colour or nationality? If you can not, this so called discussion stops here.

Muhammad had slaves. That's not enough?

So he freed them...good for him. But he had them to begin with. Should we pat him on the back?

The most notable of Muhammad's slaves were: Safiyya bint Huyayy, whom he freed and married; Maria al-Qibtiyya, given to Muhammad by a Sassanid official, whom he freed and who may have become his wife;[45] Sirin, Maria's sister, whom he freed and married to the poet Hassan ibn Thabit[46] and Zayd ibn Harithah, whom Muhammad freed and adopted as a son.[47]

 

[Demonslayer]

slavery was as normal to Muhammad as the sand of the desert.

Poetic, I like it!

 

[FearGod]

It's illegal here. When human trafficking victims are found we treat them humanely, or try to. When human traffickers (aka modern slavers) are caught, they're punished. I don't think we're free of it, but criminal elements will act without regard for the law.

So it does exist and the law will do nothing if the ones slaved don't want the law to intervene except if your society is free from the needy people.

 

[FearGod]

Muhammad had slaves. That's not enough?

So he freed them...good for him. But he had them to begin with. Should we pat him on the back?

The most notable of Muhammad's slaves were: Safiyya bint Huyayy, whom he freed and married; Maria al-Qibtiyya, given to Muhammad by a Sassanid official, whom he freed and who may have become his wife;[45] Sirin, Maria's sister, whom he freed and married to the poet Hassan ibn Thabit[46] and Zayd ibn Harithah, whom Muhammad freed and adopted as a son.[47]

All such victories against the disbelievers and only few slaves, if i were him then i would have everyday one slave.
Indeed we can't fix stupid, i meant the ones believing silly things.

 

[Demonslayer]

All such victories against the disbelievers and only few slaves,

What's a few human slaves between friends.

 

[crossfire]

What's a few human slaves between friends.

Once they convert to Islam, they can be freed.

 

[Raahim]

Once they convert to Islam, they can be freed.

They can be freed even if they don't convert to Islam, if they do then they must be freed.

 

[Demonslayer]

Once they convert to Islam, they can be freed.

How morally upright!

"If you convert to my religion, I won't enslave you anymore."

Wow