The real cause of Islamic terrorism-- the yogic perspective

[niranjan]

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Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse
http://www.answers.com/topic/abu-ghraib-torture-and-prisoner-abuse-1

I condemn what the americans have done in this matter. However the americans themselves have arrested the american soldiers who were involved in this, and shown their abuses publicly and these links themselves are from american sources.

However I must say that the americans, while brilliant in many fields, are quite naive and childish in this particular field.

How does sodomising with bananas, stripping them naked, and subjecting them to loud rock and roll music amount to any real torture.

I believe it is the islamic terrorists who set the standard for sadistic physical torture to the world.

Here's a sample......

The Sikh guru Tegh Bahadur in India was imprisoned in a cage like a wild animal, when he refused to forsake his religion for Islam. Three of his disciples were murdered in front of his eyes. One of them was Bhai Mati Das. He was sawed alive into little pieces. The other was wrapped up in cotton and burnt alive. Bhai Dyala, the third one, was boiled alive in a cauldron. Guru Tegh Bahadur himself was brutally tortured and killed in a similar fashion.


Over 2.5 million Hindus alone were slaughtered during the Pakistan-Bangladesh war in 1971. Robert E. Burns, the author of Wrath of Allah states, "The mutilation was disgusting—eyes gouged out, pregnant women disemboweled, male genitals cut off, women’s breasts cut off….."


(Islamic persecution of the Bahais)
An Austrian officer, Captain von Goumoens, working in the court of the Shah at the time, gave the following account after signing his resignation:
"[I saw] ones who, with gouged-out eyes, must eat, on the scene of the deed, their own amputated ears; or whose teeth are torn out with inhuman violence by the hand of the executioner; or whose bare skulls are simply crushed by blows from a hammer..." "As for the end itself, they hang the scorched and perforated bodies by their hands and feet to a tree head downwards, and now every Persian may try his marksmanship to his heart’s content... When I read over again, what I have written, I am overcome by the thought that those who are with you in our dearly beloved Austria may doubt the full truth of the picture, and accuse me of exaggeration. Would to God that I had not lived to see it!... At present I never leave my house, in order not to meet with fresh scenes of horror... I will no longer maintain my connection with the scene of such crimes.”\


(Islamic persecution of the Assyrians)


In early 1918, many Assyrians started to flee present-day Turkey. Mar Shimon Benyamin had arranged for some 3,500 Assyrians to reside in the district of Khoi. Not long after settling in, Kurdish troops of the Ottoman Army massacred the population almost entirely. One of the few that survived was Reverend John Eshoo. After escaping, he stated:

You have undoubtedly heard of the Assyrian massacre of Khoi, but I am certain you do not know the details."​

These Assyrians were assembled into one caravansary, and shot to death by guns and revolvers. Blood literally flowed in little streams, and the entire open space within the caravansary became a pool of crimson liquid. The place was too small to hold all the living victims waiting for execution. They were brought in groups, and each new group was compelled to stand over the heap of the still bleeding bodies and shot to death. The fearful place became literally a human slaughter house, receiving its speechless victims, in groups of ten and twenty at a time, for execution.​

At the same time, the Assyrians, who were residing in the suburb of the city, were brought together and driven into the spacious courtyard of a house [...] The Assyrian refugees were kept under guard for eight days, without anything to eat. At last they were removed from their place of confinement and taken to a spot prepared for their brutal killing. These helpless Assyrians marched like lambs to their slaughter, and they opened not their mouth, save by sayings "Lord, into thy hands we commit our spirits. [...]​

The executioners began by cutting first the fingers of their victims, join by joint, till the two hands were entirely amputated. Then they were stretched on the ground, after the manner of the animals that are slain in the Fast, but these with their faces turned upward, and their heads resting upon the stones or blocks of wood Then their throats were half cut, so as to prolong their torture of dying, and while struggling in the agony of death, the victims were kicked and clubbed by heavy poles the murderers carried Many of them, while still laboring under the pain of death, were thrown into ditches and buried before their souls had expired.​

The young men and the able-bodied men were separated from among the very young and the old. They were taken some distance from the city and used as targets by the shooters. They all fell, a few not mortally wounded. One of the leaders went to the heaps of the fallen and shouted aloud, swearing by the names of Islam's prophets that those who had not received mortal wounds should rise and depart, as they would not be harmed any more. A few, thus deceived, stood up, but only to fall this time killed by another volley from the guns of the murderers.​

Some of the younger and good looking women, together with a few little girls of attractive appearance, pleaded to be killed. Against their will were forced into Islam's harems. Others were subjected to such fiendish insults that I cannot possibly describe. Death, however, came to their rescue and saved them from the vile passions of the demons. The death toll of Assyrians totaled 2,770 men, women and children.​

And there are more of this.

So you can see clearly that the Islamic terrorists set the standard for sadistic physical torture to the world and are the unrivalled masters in this particular field (and only one at that).

 

[niranjan]

I agree with you, that's why the muslims scholars were clear about this issue and they condemned it, and even sent many scholars to Taliban in order to convience them not to do it.

Its a fact that saudi arabia and pakistan gave financial aid to the taliban,( mainly to acquire sophisticated weapons and not to feed the starving people).

If the islamic scholars wanted them to convince not to do it, they could have easily persuaded Saudi arabia and pakistan to cut off their aid to the taliban, if they destroyed the giant statues. Nothing of the sort was done.


Also check this out........

During a March 13 interview for Japan's Mainichi Shimbun, Afghan Foreign Minister Wakil Ahmad Mutawakel stated that the destruction was anything but a retaliation against the international community for economic sanctions: "We are destroying the Buddha statues in accordance with Islamic law and it is purely a religious issue"..( from the wikipedia)

Also check this out........


The Islamist Taliban government decreed that the statues, which had survived intact for over 1,500 years, were idolatrous and un-Islamic. During the destruction, Taliban Information Minister Qudratullah Jamal lamented that, "this work of destruction is not as simple as people might think. You can't knock down the statues by shelling as both are carved into a cliff; they are firmly attached to the mountain." The two largest Buddhas faced dynamite and tank barrages and were demolished after almost a month of intensive bombardment.( from the wikipedia)

It is clear from this that substantial resources were needed to destroy the giant buddha statues , which clearly could have gone a long way in feeding starving afghan men, women and children.

And this is probably the reason why the afghans celebrated the destruction of the taliban by the americans and welcomed them with joy.

 

[niranjan]

He preaches and misinterprets and misrepresents well.

It is always nice to see people out there base all there opinions on absolutely no knowledge of Quran or the traditions of islam. this is what many amongst the ulama like to call broken record misconceptions. the same ole thing. They say Islam equals terror here are the verses. or they will ask does Islam promote terrorism. then immediately if you answer them without giving them all the facts they will go on their limited perception or scope of it. for if you do not know how the context was given or what it is how can you ever expect to understand it.

Yeah sure, I have read the quran myself, and I have a personal copy at home.

Also Vivekananda had also studied the quran, and not some verses from here and there.

In the parliament of religions in 1893 , when a christian speaker stated that Islam teaches that women have no souls, it was Vivekananda who came to Islams defence and stated that he had studied the quran , and there is no such thing in the quran.

 

[mohamedhassan]

Buddhist, hindu, sikh so-called terrorism are not a global phenomenon like islamic terrorism,

I live in canada and the air india trials are still going on lol, not global??

even though they are more numerous than muslims and are there in every country in substantial minorities. And in all countries , they are decent and law-abiding people , and the involvement of these people in crime is negligible or non-existent, which is a major contrast from the islamic community in many countries.

Really?? i lived in Vancouver, the majority of domestic problems were in the sikh community, Actually the RCMP are having so much problems that their trying to work with the Indian authorities because of the mass number of people who live and canada and then end up mysteriously dead in india! The area i lived in was Majority sikh and the RCMP would never leave our area, if you want things to go to religion and your claiming you people are better then the rest you will fail. the biggest drug dealers were sikh, the biggest alcoholics were sikh the biggests gangs were sikh if you don't believe me come to canada, i'll give you a tour

The U.K. itself is an example. The Sikh, Buddhist and Hindu communities are well-educated, and rich people, without any involvement in crime whatsoever, and whose achievements and merits have been extolled by sociological research. The richest man in Britain is a hindu.

so because the richest man is hindu does that mean the entire community doesn't involve in crime, come one!

Compare this to the islamic community in the U.K. who do badly in education, are poverty stricken , and have high crime rates and seem to be interested in religion to the exclusion of everything else.

What a blunt and utterly provocative statement!!! excuse me but muslims are the most educated people on this planet. If it weren't for muslims the face of science wouldn't even be close to what it is today, people should thank muslims for the contributions they made not try to ridcule them with baseless assumptions!!! Muslims have contributed wayyyyyyyyyyyyy more to modern civilization then Buddist, Hindu's and Sikhs combined!!

Sikh and hindu communities are now making a serious effort to identify themselves as hindu or sikh communities and not as asians because that would mean they would be lumped with islamic terrorists and fundamentalists and perverts as well who are despised the world all over.

They have the right to identify themseleves as they wish but why are you making fun of muslims?? your hatred just reveals itself more and more as you speak. I've lived with sikhs and hindus all my life actually 12 years of my life, and they've caused me soo much problems growing up (its not easy being black in an indian society trust me ) but i dismiss that out of ignorace yet you seem to generalize all muslims into a lump and show your pure anomosity towards them, tolerace torlerance!!

 

[neves]

It’s great your quoting a generalize view of Islam is a terrorist and all... but mind actually putting your view on the table so we can discuss something? I actually skipped much of your pastes because it’s too much to cover at once... lets first start by showing your point of view... what is your religion?

 

[mohamedhassan]

What do you mean, what about them!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why dont you apologize to them as well for the atrocities islamic terrorists and fundamentalists committed against them ?

well your definition of terrorism is one sided and lofty. you seem to blame musllims for EVERYTHING. islamic fundamentalism to you is just purely islam!

So you are saying that muslim terrorists are attacking and killing innocent people in the U.S. , Russia, China, India, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Thailand, Phillipines, France, Algeria, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Malaysia, Indonesia, Spain, Iran,Holland, the U.K., and other countries at the present moment ( not the past) because they don't have anything to defend themselves with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

right so their have been suicide bombings in all those countries right?! it obvious you just named a bunch of countries in there with out even thnking if anything has happened to them. For instance you claim Iran is a terrorist state yet you claim there have been suicide attacks in iran!! tell me when have their been suicide bombings in sudan? maybe you should revisit your list of countries before you expect an answer

So are you saying that in Afghanistan, Algeria, Iran, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Thailand, Phillipines, France, Algeria, Sudan, Malaysia, Indonesia, Spain,Holland, muslims are imprisoned, raped and killed. What about the non-muslim minorities in muslim states!!!!!! Don't you think by the same logic , the non-muslims as well, in order to prevent the killing of their people and the rape of their women and children, should employ self-defence and fight back with a vengeance againt Islamic terrorists?

is that the list of countries I gave you? don't superimpose something on me

I condemn all violence. But perhaps if the chechen muslims, instead of trying to seperate from Russia(as they are doing in other countries as well), had become a loyal part of it, I don't think none of this violence would have taken place.

OHHHHHHHHHHh okay i get it now. I tell you that the chechen people have been massacared, raped, tourtured, and plundered, the entire race sent to siberia (do you know what that is? the work camps that stalin use to take his people ever heard of them the gullacks?) and your best solution is that they should be subservient to the country that has persecuted them. WOW you really are biased!! your claiming that "muslim terrorist" have done so much to your country (though your facts are really obsucre) yet your turning a blind eye to one of the biggest massacres that have occured in history, the second holocoust​

[quote[Also , is it moral to kill innocent children and rape 15 year old girls in beslan , considering the fact that they are just children. And I don't think revenge was a factor in this because women and girls were raped and children killed as well in offensive warfare committed against non-muslim nations by islamic fundamentalists for no reason at all. It is a part of islamic terrorist culture.[/quote]
Can you stop with this rape business!! every time you mention muslims your attach the word rape as if equatiing the two!! I'm not aware of any rape that occured. The attacks at the school I remember was a stand off and this is my first time of hearing about rape. This seems to also be typical of media trying to defame muslims. It sounds more like the Iran-Britian stand off that occured last month where The soilders kept switching their stories. I'm sorry but i refuse to believe any rape occured. Listen i'm not justying the standoff at the school but you seem to be so anti-muslim that whenever the muslim name is mentioned your ready to defame it! i told you the problems that the muslim chechens face but instead of the hundreds of years of persecution your ready to bring me one incident and show me how immoral it is HOW ABOUT THE HUNDRED YEARS THEY'VE BEEN PERSECUTED ISNT THAT IMMORAL????​

​

I think Iraq could have avoided all these sanctions if they had opened up their military sites or biological weapons research institutes to the international community, and I believe the international community had a point in being circumspect about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction considering the way they tortured and killed Iranians during the Iran-Iraq war, their invasion of Kuwait where they butchered a lot of people, and the way they used chemical weapons against the kurds . These guys have a history of nauseating violence and warfare, against civilians as well, and hence logically they cannot be trusted with weapons of mass destruction.

I am by no way defending sadam hussien. He was a killer, a tyrant and all that bla bal bla . But how about the people. The sactions didn't hurt sadam at all! he had a golden toliet while his people were dying under him dam it. Ever since the sactions were placed over a million iraqis died. so what was the point of the sactions. It was obvious before that sadam had no problem spraying his own people how do expect him to feed them when you've sanctioned the country??? And the WMD's stuff was a load of **** and bull, where do you think he got all the weapons he was using against his people from? the ones he used with out any condemnation from the STATES? obviously the same people who said he had WMD's!!

Well, from what I know , many Israelis themselves have been killed by palestinians themselves, with bomb blasts and suicide bombings.

hahah. one or two suicide attacks eh. i told you last year alone 699 palestians were killed and 12 isrealis were killed. The UN has gone so far as to call them war crimes. The problem in palestine is more then your TV screens show you! Its worse then the South African Apartid i can tell you that much​

Somalia has lacked a legitimate central government since the overthrow of Siad Barré in 1991. The resultant environment of lawlessness and clan warfare is ideal for hiding fugitives. It also makes Somalia vulnerable to external manipulation — the first seeds of which were planted when Osama bin Laden sent al Qaeda personnel to assist in the guerrilla war against UN and U.S. peacekeepers whose presence marginalized important clan leaders.

I'm glad you know a bit about my country ​

I think most of the thousands who were massacred were alqaeda operatives. I don't think there is anything wrong in that.

when recently?? my freind somalis are sick and tired of war, so when the international communty puts the warlord who looted stole and raped the women as the leaders of the country what do you think the somali people will do?? somalis are muslim and want to rule themselves according to islam not secularism!​

The western nations and the U.N. have also reported the plighT of starving somali people ,and the U.S. itself have done a lot to alleviate their hunger and poverty, which apparently the al-qaeda was not bothered about.

Al-qaeda?? if you mean the union of islamic courts they peace and stability they brought to somali was evident from june 2006-december no one needs to comment​

[/quote]

 

[mohamedhassan]

I like how you keep mentioning sikhs and hindus together when they hate each other to death. All my sikh friends hate hindus more then muslims i don't know why lol --- i'm serious about this

 

[niranjan]

I live in canada and the air india trials are still going on lol, not global??!!

That is the sole exception of sikh terrorists , compared to the numerous hijackings, bombings, suicide bombings, of islamic terrorists all over the world.

Sikh terrorism is a creation of the pakistani ISI, who supplied them with sophisticated weapons and training, just the way the ISI created and aided the Taliban.( they sure are very noble)

And sikh terrorism was destroyed by the sikhs themselves. The exploits of the legendary Sikh I.P.S. police officer, K.P.S.Gill , who destroyed sikh terrorism is well-known.

Really?? i lived in Vancouver, the majority of domestic problems were in the sikh community, Actually the RCMP are having so much problems that their trying to work with the Indian authorities because of the mass number of people who live and canada and then end up mysteriously dead in india! The area i lived in was Majority sikh and the RCMP would never leave our area, if you want things to go to religion and your claiming you people are better then the rest you will fail. the biggest drug dealers were sikh, the biggest alcoholics were sikh the biggests gangs were sikh if you don't believe me come to canada, i'll give you a tour??!!

Well, I am not aware of that. Are they also involved in suicide bombings, rape of 'infidel' women , killing of non-believers, child marriage,bomb attacks as well.

Any way, the sikhs are very industrious and hardworking people, and taking of alcohol and drugs is forbidden in the sikh scriptures. Their industry and work ethics are responsible for the green revolution in punjab in India, which exponentially increased crop yield.

Also they are perceived as a hardworking community in the U.S., Australia and britain, where they have many millionaires.

Vikram Chawla, the sikh billionaire in the U.S. , is very close to the clintons and the democrats, and wields political influence over there.

so because the richest man is hindu does that mean the entire community doesn't involve in crime, come one! ??!!

And how is that related to crime!!!!!!!

Anyway the hindu and buddhist community in Britain is well-educated and rich, and consistently outperform the whites over there.
And sociological research has shown that the crime rates in the hindu and buddhist community is very low, which is a marked contrast from the islamic community who has very high crime rates. And this is the situation not only in Britain but other european countries.

Also you can correlate industriousness to low crime rates. Ever heard that an idle mind is the devils workshop.

What a blunt and utterly provocative statement!!! excuse me but muslims are the most educated people on this planet.

Yeah sure, and that is why most islamic states are failed states. The arab states are an exception because of their petro-dollars , and not because of any individual effort.
And by the way Bush is funding research on other energy sources on a war footing, even that will cease.

And that is also the reason why patients from failed islamic states like pakistan and bangladesh and other islamic states come to India for medical treatment, which we are gracious to provide , as we believe in humanity.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/globaliz/special/2003/1106medicaltourismindia.htm

Muslims have contributed wayyyyyyyyyyyyy more to modern civilization then Buddist, Hindu's and Sikhs combined!!

Yeah sure ,and that is the reason why the arabs borrowed the indian numeral system and the rudiments of mathematics from us.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_numerals

http://www.jiskha.com/mathematics/algebra/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_mathematics

We have produced world famous scientists in the modern era as well,like the botanist Jagadish Chandra Bose, the physicist C.V.Raman, the mathematician Ramanujan, and many other scientists as well. We have produced nobel prize winners in chemistry and physics and economics.

Similarly the japanese buddhists are the foremost in science and technology in the world, rivalling the U.S. and europe and have produced many nobel prize winners.

How many islamic nobel prize winners are there in the sciences, if you don't mind ?

They have the right to identify themseleves as they wish but why are you making fun of muslims?? your hatred just reveals itself more and more as you speak.!!

I am only stating facts .

I've lived with sikhs and hindus all my life actually 12 years of my life, and they've caused me soo much problems growing up (its not easy being black in an indian society trust me ) .!!

We are black-skinned ourselves dude , and we are proud of our skin colour as well.

 

[mohamedhassan]

Sikh terrorism is a creation of the pakistani ISI, who supplied them with sophisticated weapons and training, just the way the ISI created and aided the Taliban.( they sure are very noble)

Your are utterly confused aren't you. Once you say Muslims hate sikhs then you say muslims support sikhs do you find a controdiction to that? The entire issure started with hindu-sikh terrrorsim aganst themselves so don't try to paint it on muslims all of a sudden

Well, I am not aware of that. Are they also involved in suicide bombings, rape of 'infidel' women , killing of non-believers, child marriage,bomb attacks as well.

YOu keep refering back to rape, rape, rape!!! In India itself hidus have raped more muslims then any rouge muslim could rape your women!!!
You keep refering to domestic problems in muslims too, excuse me but hindu's and sikhs have a far worse domestic problems then muslims. Isn't it part of hinduism that if a women's husband dies she has to burn herself??? what exactly is it your trying to discuss or is your job to just try to defame the muslim image

Any way, the sikhs are very industrious and hardworking people, and taking of alcohol and drugs is forbidden in the sikh scriptures. Their industry and work ethics are responsible for the green revolution in punjab in India, which exponentially increased crop yield.

really?????? you should go and tell that to the sikh communites here. Maybe that would stop the rape,and murder cases here.

Also they are perceived as a hardworking community in the U.S., Australia and britain, where they have many millionaires. [/qoute]
thats good for them and they should be! by the way success isn't measured through finicial worth

Anyway the hindu and buddhist community in Britain is well-educated and rich, and consistently outperform the whites over there.
And sociological research has shown that the crime rates in the hindu and buddhist community is very low

Thats very good to hear, hopefully this isn't a premise

which is a marked contrast from the islamic community who has very high crime rates. And this is the situation not only in Britain but other european countries.

from islamic "terroism" to islamic communites. Once against what is your objective? to throw around some provocative statements or to discuss an issue?

Also you can correlate industriousness to low crime rates. Ever heard that an idle mind is the devils workshop.

what a flawed statement!!

Yeah sure, and that is why most islamic states are failed states. The arab states are an exception because of their petro-dollars , and not because of any individual effort.
And by the way Bush is funding research on other energy sources on a war footing, even that will cease.

News flash: THERE IS NOT SUCH THING AS A MUSLIM STATE. suprising?? well its the honest truth. most "muslim countries" are either secular or dictatorial. None of them adhere to islam they all follow their whims and desires

And that is also the reason why patients from failed islamic states like pakistan and bangladesh and other islamic states come to India for medical treatment, which we are gracious to provide , as we believe in humanity.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/globaliz/special/2003/1106medicaltourismindia.htm

Ya i heard you mention this before. Pakistan is not a Muslim state nor is bagledash. The cheif judge of Pakistan is a hindu and the president himself doesn't adhere to islam!! so you can no longer point a finger at a "muslim state" b/c there exists no such thing today in the world

Yeah sure ,and that is the reason why the arabs borrowed the indian numeral system and the rudiments of mathematics from us.

Hopefully your not trying to say that muslim contributions to areas like science isn't true, because that is going to be a very hard up hill battle your going to face. Muslims don't even need to defend that its pretty evident. Okay so your complianing that muslims borrowed the indian numeral system? i guess all of europe and north america should give back the arabic numeral system eh!

We are black-skinned ourselves dude , and we are proud of our skin colour as well.

haha, i wish things were that easy! anyway i'm not gonna discuss this(even though the stories are many)

Lets build an objective here, we're just rambling from topic to topic refuting one another and getting nowhere. I think you should make a new thread with a more consise topic and a clear objective that way more people can discuss and the topic wown't be so obscure!

 

[niranjan]

Your are utterly confused aren't you. Once you say Muslims hate sikhs then you say muslims support sikhs do you find a controdiction to that? The entire issure started with hindu-sikh terrrorsim aganst themselves so don't try to paint it on muslims all of a sudden!

Well excuse me, but I am living in India, and we have ample evidence to prove that the ISI trained and equipped misguided sikh youths with sophisticated weapons like grenades and AK-47 rifles, which you cannot get in punjab or India, but is commonplace in Pakistan and afghanistan .( and which is the reason for the nauseating violence in these countries)

Sikh militants captured by the police and armed forces, upon interrogation has revealed this as well.

YOu keep refering back to rape, rape, rape!!! In India itself hidus have raped more muslims then any rouge muslim could rape your women!!!!

And where have hindus raped bahais, zoroastrians, jews, buddhists, sikhs, jains in India or elsewhere.

And the fact that muslim fundamentalists have raped hindu and sikh women and buddhist women is a fact as shown by the moplah riots, direct action day riots,and partition riots and during the genocide in Bangladesh in 1971. And this is just in the indian subcontinent , not elsewhere where islamic terrorists have raped bahais, assyrians, zoroastrians, as shown by my links.

You keep refering to domestic problems in muslims too, excuse me but hindu's and sikhs have a far worse domestic problems then muslims. Isn't it part of hinduism that if a women's husband dies she has to burn herself??? !!!!

Wrong again, the hindu custom of sati, appeared after muslim invaders started raping hindu women. So the custom of sati was started to prevent the outrage of hindu women at the hands of these perverts. Unfortunately it became a tradition among some hindus.

But it was eradicated by the efforts of the hindu reformer Raja Ram Mohan Roy in the 19th century. Sati is banned in the indian constitution and hindu laws as well, and is a criminal offence .

what exactly is it your trying to discuss or is your job to just try to defame the muslim image!!!!

No, just pointing out the cause of islamic terrorism and how to prevent it.

really?????? you should go and tell that to the sikh communites here. Maybe that would stop the rape,and murder cases here.!!!!

So do they rape the women of other religions because " their right hand possess them" ?

Rape is a sin according to the sikh sriptures , and if they do get involved in rape or murder , they should be severely punished and reprimanded , its as simple as that.
However the crime rate in punjab is very low, and similarly with the crime rates in Australia, U.K, and the U.S. among the sikhs.
They are also not involved in polygamy or paedophilia.

Also they are perceived as a hardworking community in the U.S., Australia and britain, where they have many millionaires. [/qoute]
thats good for them and they should be! by the way success isn't measured through finicial worth. Well financial worth is indeed important, as well as education, and a low crime rate, which are the parameters of success of a community.

Thats very good to hear, hopefully this isn't a premise.!!!!

No, it is a fact, which has appeared many times in the newspapers.

from islamic "terroism" to islamic communites. Once against what is your objective? .

Well , it was stated in the newspapers that way, when they showed the high crime rates among muslims in the U.K.( their words not mine)

to throw around some provocative statements or to discuss an issue?.

I am only stating facts.

what a flawed statement!! .

Well, if you consider a wise proverb which all of us learn in school a flawed statement,it casts light more on your state of mind.

News flash: THERE IS NOT SUCH THING AS A MUSLIM STATE. suprising?? well its the honest truth. most "muslim countries" are either secular or dictatorial. None of them adhere to islam they all follow their whims and desires.

Coming from you , it is not surprising. Most islamic nations are indeed islamic states and dictatorial states. The only islamic nation which is a secular state is Turkey.And all islamic states have islamic laws.

Ya i heard you mention this before. Pakistan is not a Muslim state nor is bagledash. .

Pakistan and Bangladesh are muslim states, you ignoramus. Why on earth do you think they created riots like the Direct Action day riots in India ? So that they can seperate from secular India and create a muslim state. And mind you, they are failed states as well.

The cheif judge of Pakistan is a hindu and the president himself doesn't adhere to islam!!.

Which probably is because of Bush's orders to them to be more democratic and nice towards the minorities ( or else) ?
The chief judge being a hindu is the very few things they have done for the hindu minority. And even in that there is problems as islamic fundamentalists are raising arms saying that this is against islam. I don't think this hindu judge will be alive for long . He will probably suffer the same fate as the muslim woman minister who was shot dead by islamic fundamentalists on the grounds that islam forbids woman rulers.
Being appointed the chief judge probably is the worst thing that could have happened to him.

so you can no longer point a finger at a "muslim state" b/c there exists no such thing today in the world!!.

Yeah sure pal, afghanistan, pakistan, saudi arabia, iran and other islamic nations other than turkey are not muslim states. However I hope you dont go to these countries in your innocence and say that they are not muslim states. They might chop off your fingers and limbs and do other nasty stuff.

Okay so your complianing that muslims borrowed the indian numeral system? !!.

I am not complaining . It is a fact.

i guess all of europe and north america should give back the arabic numeral system eh!!!.

Well, if you are thinking in that way , the arabs can also return the indian numeral system to us. We will give it personally to the Europeans and americans.

I think you should make a new thread with a more consise topic and a clear objective that way more people can discuss and the topic wown't be so obscure!

I believe this thread is more than enough.

 

[niranjan]

Your are utterly confused aren't you. Once you say Muslims hate sikhs then you say muslims support sikhs do you find a controdiction to that? The entire issure started with hindu-sikh terrrorsim aganst themselves so don't try to paint it on muslims all of a sudden!

Well excuse me, but I am living in India, and we have ample evidence to prove that the ISI trained and equipped misguided sikh youths with sophisticated weapons like grenades and AK-47 rifles, which you cannot get in punjab or India, but is commonplace in Pakistan and afghanistan .( and which is the reason for the nauseating violence in these countries)

Sikh militants captured by the police and armed forces, upon interrogation has revealed this as well.

YOu keep refering back to rape, rape, rape!!! In India itself hidus have raped more muslims then any rouge muslim could rape your women!!!!

And where have hindus raped bahais, zoroastrians, jews, buddhists, sikhs, jains in India or elsewhere.

And the fact that muslim fundamentalists have raped hindu and sikh women and buddhist women is a fact as shown by the moplah riots, direct action day riots,and partition riots and during the genocide in Bangladesh in 1971. And this is just in the indian subcontinent , not elsewhere where islamic terrorists have raped bahais, assyrians, zoroastrians, as shown by my links.

You keep refering to domestic problems in muslims too, excuse me but hindu's and sikhs have a far worse domestic problems then muslims. Isn't it part of hinduism that if a women's husband dies she has to burn herself??? !!!!

Wrong again, the hindu custom of sati, appeared after muslim invaders started raping hindu women. So the custom of sati was started to prevent the outrage of hindu women at the hands of these perverts. Unfortunately it became a tradition among some hindus.

But it was eradicated by the efforts of the hindu reformer Raja Ram Mohan Roy in the 19th century. Sati is banned in the indian constitution and hindu laws as well, and is a criminal offence .

what exactly is it your trying to discuss or is your job to just try to defame the muslim image!!!!

No, just pointing out the cause of islamic terrorism and how to prevent it.

really?????? you should go and tell that to the sikh communites here. Maybe that would stop the rape,and murder cases here.!!!!

So do they rape the women of other religions because " their right hand possess them" ?

Rape is a sin according to the sikh sriptures , and if they do get involved in rape or murder , they should be severely punished and reprimanded , its as simple as that.
However the crime rate in punjab is very low, and similarly with the crime rates in Australia, U.K, and the U.S. among the sikhs.
They are also not involved in polygamy or paedophilia.

Also they are perceived as a hardworking community in the U.S., Australia and britain, where they have many millionaires.
thats good for them and they should be! by the way success isn't measured through finicial worth. [/qoute]


Well financial worth is indeed important, as well as education, and a low crime rate, which are the parameters of success of a community.


I also wish and pray that the somalian muslim community will get rid of their intense poverty and become rich as well.

Thats very good to hear, hopefully this isn't a premise.!!!!

No, it is a fact, which has appeared many times in the newspapers.

from islamic "terroism" to islamic communites. Once against what is your objective? .

Well , it was stated in the newspapers that way, when they showed the high crime rates among muslims in the U.K.( their words not mine)

to throw around some provocative statements or to discuss an issue?.

I am only stating facts.

what a flawed statement!! .

Well, if you consider a wise proverb which all of us learn in school a flawed statement,it casts light more on your state of mind.

News flash: THERE IS NOT SUCH THING AS A MUSLIM STATE. suprising?? well its the honest truth. most "muslim countries" are either secular or dictatorial. None of them adhere to islam they all follow their whims and desires.

Coming from you , it is not surprising. Most islamic nations are indeed islamic states and dictatorial states. The only islamic nation which is a secular state is Turkey.And all islamic states have islamic laws.

Ya i heard you mention this before. Pakistan is not a Muslim state nor is bagledash. .

Pakistan and Bangladesh are muslim states, you ignoramus. Why on earth do you think they created riots like the Direct Action day riots in India ? So that they can seperate from secular India and create a muslim state. And mind you, they are failed states as well.

The cheif judge of Pakistan is a hindu and the president himself doesn't adhere to islam!!.

Which probably is because of Bush's orders to them to be more democratic and nice towards the minorities ( or else) .
The chief judge being a hindu is the very few things they have done for the hindu minority. And even in that there is problems as islamic fundamentalists are raising arms saying that this is against islam. I don't think this hindu judge will be alive for long . He will probably suffer the same fate as the muslim woman minister who was shot dead by islamic fundamentalists on the grounds that islam forbids woman rulers.
Being appointed the chief judge probably is the worst thing that could have happened to him.

so you can no longer point a finger at a "muslim state" b/c there exists no such thing today in the world!!.

Yeah sure pal, afghanistan, pakistan, saudi arabia, iran and other islamic nations other than turkey are not muslim states. However I hope you dont go to these countries in your innocence and say that they are not muslim states. They might chop off your fingers and limbs and do other nasty stuff.

Okay so your complianing that muslims borrowed the indian numeral system? !!.

I am not complaining . It is a fact.

i guess all of europe and north america should give back the arabic numeral system eh!!!.

Well, if you are thinking in that way , the arabs can also return the indian numeral system to us. We will give it personally to the Europeans and americans.

I think you should make a new thread with a more consise topic and a clear objective that way more people can discuss and the topic wown't be so obscure!

I believe this thread is more than enough.

 

[niranjan]

well your definition of terrorism is one sided and lofty. you seem to blame musllims for EVERYTHING. islamic fundamentalism to you is just purely islam!

I have clearly distinguished between muslims and islamic terrorists.

right so their have been suicide bombings in all those countries right?! it obvious you just named a bunch of countries in there with out even thnking if anything has happened to them. For instance you claim Iran is a terrorist state yet you claim there have been suicide attacks in iran!! tell me when have their been suicide bombings in sudan? maybe you should revisit your list of countries before you expect an answer

I don't think I have claimed that there are suicide attacks in Iran like pakistan or afghanistan. However terrorism and fundamentalism is there by islamic terrorists against the noble bahais, and if you want I can post more links on that as well.

is that the list of countries I gave you? don't superimpose something on me

What list? The list of islamic nations where minorities are persecuted was written by me , independent of any list of countries you gave me.

OHHHHHHHHHHh okay i get it now. I tell you that the chechen people have been massacared, raped, tourtured, and plundered, the entire race sent to siberia (do you know what that is? the work camps that stalin use to take his people ever heard of them the gullacks?) and your best solution is that they should be subservient to the country that has persecuted them. WOW you really are biased!! your claiming that "muslim terrorist" have done so much to your country (though your facts are really obsucre) yet your turning a blind eye to one of the biggest massacres that have occured in history, the second holocoust​

It is the communists who did it, and they did the same thing to christians and jews, and many political opponents.​

Can you stop with this rape business!! every time you mention muslims your attach the word rape as if equatiing the two!!​

Sorry I cannot. That will be a gross injustice to the assyrian, bahai, hindu, sikh, buddhist, zoroastrian ladies in Asia who were victims of islamic terrorism. I don't have the heart to ignore it.

I'm not aware of any rape that occured. !!

Coming from a guy like you, I am not surprised.

The attacks at the school I remember was a stand off and this is my first time of hearing about rape. This seems to also be typical of media trying to defame muslims.

!!

Check this out....

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=15206


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_hostage_crisis

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1214617/posts

i told you the problems that the muslim chechens face but instead of the hundreds of years of persecution your ready to bring me one incident and show me how immoral it is HOW ABOUT THE HUNDRED YEARS THEY'VE BEEN PERSECUTED ISNT THAT IMMORAL????!!

As I said, it was done by the communists, and they didn't spare the jews or the christians as well.

Anyway are you saying that the rape of little girls and slaughter of children by chechen islamic terrorists justifies what have been done to them ?

hahah. one or two suicide attacks eh. i told you last year alone 699 palestians were killed and 12 isrealis were killed. The UN has gone so far as to call them war crimes.

As I said, I do not condone any violence, Israeli or palestinian.

But I must say that I have been reading about palestinian bomb attacks ever since I learned how to read, and now I am an adult, and still I am reading the same stuff.

Anyway what do you have to say about the Israeli athletes killed by islamic terrorists in the Munich Olympic games ? Do you think that is very honourable ?

I'm glad you know a bit about my country

Thank you. And as I said before, I want somalia to get rid of its poverty and starvation and become a rich country and a model state for all.

somalis are muslim and want to rule themselves according to islam not secularism!

Judging by the examples of failed islamic states like pakistan , bangladesh, afghanistan and others , I don't think ruling according to islam is a very good idea.

I think secularism is the better bet.


​

 

[mohamedhassan]

I have clearly distinguished between muslims and islamic terrorists.

I'm sorry you have not

What list? The list of islamic nations where minorities are persecuted was written by me , independent of any list of countries you gave me.

These "islamic nations" touture their majoirties more then then there minorites. Examples are iraq(sadam), syria, jordon, yemen, kuwiat, saudi arabia, uzbeckhistan, qatar, lebonon, pakistan, egypt, tunisa, morroco, algeria, libya

You probably think that these are muslim states well their not and thats not according to just me ask any scholor of islam or anyone who knows the religion

It is the communists who did it, and they did the same thing to christians and jews, and many political opponents.[/quote[
They moved an entire nation to siberia? sorry but i have no knowledge of that

Sorry I cannot. That will be a gross injustice to the assyrian, bahai, hindu, sikh, buddhist, zoroastrian ladies in Asia who were victims of islamic terrorism. I don't have the heart to ignore it.

Here i'll put it simply for you I CONDEMN ALL RAPE AGAINST WOMEN AND SO DOES EVERY MUSLIMsorry but as much as i'd like to i can't control peoples sexual desires.

Coming from a guy like you, I am not surprised.

come now lets not let our different thoughts lead us to have animosities to one another! lets debate fercily about our thoughts and opinions but lets not hate each other , by the way i'm sorry if i offended you i mean that sincerly

Anyway are you saying that the rape of little girls and slaughter of children by chechen islamic terrorists justifies what have been done to them ?

Nope thats not what i'm saying! what i'm saying is i'll condemn that as long as people are ready to condemn all the attrocities they've commited agaisnt the chechen people!

As I said, I do not condone any violence, Israeli or palestinian.

But I must say that I have been reading about palestinian bomb attacks ever since I learned how to read, and now I am an adult, and still I am reading the same stuff.

Anyway what do you have to say about the Israeli athletes killed by islamic terrorists in the Munich Olympic games ? Do you think that is very honourable ?

it may not be an honorable act but why does an the death of one athlete overweight the thousands of palestians killed? here watch this video, b/c this won't manifest the same if you only read it
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=746557429802139093

Thank you. And as I said before, I want somalia to get rid of its poverty and starvation and become a rich country and a model state for all.

Luckly the country has oil and uranium, but is diseased with tribalism! thier only soultion is to come back to islam

Judging by the examples of failed islamic states like pakistan , bangladesh, and others , I don't think ruling according to islam is a very good idea.

well those countries are simply that, failed islamic states. They tries to take islam and add some of their own laws with the of islam and destroyed themseleves in the process

I think secularism is the better bet.

religion is useless unless it can be played through in government. what kind of god would give people their spirtually needs and not tell them or even help them govern themeselves. Islam is a complete package which governs every aspect of life and Allah has given us a way to govern ourseleves. we don't take a part of the words of allah and desregard the rest, so for muslims secularism isn't the way


[/left]

 

[mohamedhassan]

So do they rape the women of other religions because " their right hand possess them" ?

yes and so did all people at that time!! its no longer practiced but people use to do this until it was stopped internationally

Rape is a sin according to the sikh sriptures , and if they do get involved in rape or murder , they should be severely punished and reprimanded , its as simple as that.

well thats good to know! in islam the rapist is killed PERIOD

They are also not involved in polygamy or paedophilia.

A) from what i know there is no limit to the number of women a hindu man can marry
b) since when is polygamy a crime? its widely practiced by people of all cultures
c)whats with this pedophilia busniess you keep refering too?

 

[TashaN]

Dear niranjan, i think i'm asking this question for the third time and you are ignoring it. I'm interested to know your religion, will you tell me about it please?


Thanks in advance.

4th time !!!

 

[niranjan]

I'm sorry you have not

Yes, I have.

These "islamic nations" touture their majoirties more then then there minorites. Examples are iraq(sadam), syria, jordon, yemen, kuwiat, saudi arabia, uzbeckhistan, qatar, lebonon, pakistan, egypt, tunisa, morroco, algeria, libya

I understand very well that these islamic nations which follow islamic laws are not civilized states, even then how can you overlook the torture,killing of their non-muslim minorities.Also I do not condone violence against the majority as well, as all are human beings. This itself shows that there is something fundamentally wrong with the system.

You probably think that these are muslim states well their not and thats not according to just me ask any scholor of islam or anyone who knows the religion

And they are muslim theocratic states, who follow islamic rules , buddy.Why else are they following the shariat and islamic rules like polygamy, talaq-divorce,and other stuff?

They moved an entire nation to siberia? sorry but i have no knowledge of that

Its high time you did. Many christians and jews and marxists themselves(who opposed stalin) were killed in the concentration camps of Stalin.

Here i'll put it simply for you I CONDEMN ALL RAPE AGAINST WOMEN AND SO DOES EVERY MUSLIMsorry but as much as i'd like to i can't control peoples sexual desires.

Wonder why islamic terrorists and fundamentalists have a problem with controlling their perverted sexual desires all over the world.

come now lets not let our different thoughts lead us to have animosities to one another! lets debate fercily about our thoughts and opinions but lets not hate each other , by the way i'm sorry if i offended you i mean that sincerly

Thank you, but I am not offended in the least. But you sure are a somalian muslim gentleman, and a good ambassador for your people, but very naive.

Nope thats not what i'm saying! what i'm saying is i'll condemn that as long as people are ready to condemn all the attrocities they've commited agaisnt the chechen people!

So you need other peoples condemnation of the atrocities committed to the chechens to condemn the atrocities committed by the chechens . Otherwise you will not condemn what the chechens did by slaughtering the little kids and raping little girls.
Sorry , but i take back my statement that you are a gentleman.

it may not be an honorable act but why does an the death of one athlete overweight the thousands of palestians killed? here watch this video, b/c this won't manifest the same if you only read it
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=746557429802139093

Not one athlete, but many athletes were killed. And I know that many israeli civilians were also killed in bomb blasts, and suicide bombings.

If these palestinian so-called freedom fighters have any honour, they should target israeli soldiers , not innocent israeli civilians, women and children. But I don't think they have the guts to do that.

Luckly the country has oil and uranium, but is diseased with tribalism! thier only soultion is to come back to islam

I don't think islam can eradicate tribalism, because they are many islamic tribes in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Many pakistani soldiers have died fighting against these muslim tribes in the interiors of Pakistan, while trying to flush out al-qaeda and taliban activists, due to the strict orders of George Bush ( whom they do not dare think of disobeying.)

As I said , I believe the solution is secular humanism, and this will also ensure that the non-muslim minorities, will not be harrassed , as they are in other islamic states.

well those countries are simply that, failed islamic states. They tries to take islam and add some of their own laws with the of islam and destroyed themseleves in the process

sorry, but majority of their laws is islamic, and they became failed states in the process.

Even the taliban in afghanistan, which strictly followed islamic rules, was a super-failed state.

religion is useless unless it can be played through in government.

Yeah, and we all know what happened to the taliban and other failed islamic states.

what kind of god would give people their spirtually needs and not tell them or even help them govern themeselves..

Sorry but the shariat and polygamy and talaq and child marriage and other stuff are no longer applicable in the modern era.

so for muslims secularism isn't the way

It is the only way out for them.

 

[niranjan]

yes and so did all people at that time!! its no longer practiced but people use to do this until it was stopped internationally?

Sorry but the sikhs have never raped zoroastrians, hindus, buddhists, jains, jews, bahais, christians here in India or elsewhere , unlike islamic terrorists from the 7th century A.D, and neither did the other religions in Asia as well, and definetely not in a widespread manner like islamic terrorism.

well thats good to know! in islam the rapist is killed PERIOD?

Except those who possess women captives of other religions, "which their right hand possess", and which is the reason why bahais, zoroastrians, hindus, sikhs, assyrians, buddhist ladies were raped by their islamic terrorist captors in asia, and elsewhere.

A) from what i know there is no limit to the number of women a hindu man can marry?

Polygamy is banned under hindu laws and the Indian constitution in India, and elsewhere as well. It is a criminal offence in India, and the culprits can be arrested.

b) since when is polygamy a crime? its widely practiced by people of all cultures?

Tell that to the women , who have to share their husband with other women. Would you like it if you had to share your wife with other men?

c)whats with this pedophilia busniess you keep refering too?

I have already mentioned the "paedophilia business " with information.Read it again.And I exhort the other readers to go through this as well.

 

[niranjan]

Check this out. Fresh from yesterdays newspaper.

Jihadist video shows boy beheading man

A video circulating in pakistan records the grisly death of a militant accused of betraying a top taliban official who was killed in a december airstrike in Afghanistan. The executioner, a boy, who looks barely 12, denounces the blindfolded man before him as a US spy, before hacking off his head to cries of 'God is great' and hoists it in triumph by the hair.

The soundtrack features songs praising TAliban supreme leader Mullah Omar and "Sheikh Osama"-an apparent reference to Osama bin Laden, who is suspected of hiding along the Afghan-Pakistan border.

The footage shows Nabi making what is described as a confession, being blindfolded with a checkered scarf. "He is an american spy. Those who do this kind of thing will get this kind of fate," says his baby-faced executioner, who is not identified.

A continuous 2 1/2- minute shot then shows the victim lying on his side on a patch of rubble-strewn ground. A man holds Nabi by his beard while the boy, wearing a camouflage military jacket and oversized white sneakers , cuts into the throat.

The film , overlain with jihadi songs, then shows the boy hacking and slashing at the man's neck until the head is severed.

http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com/2007/04/21/young-taliban-beheads-ghulam-nabi/


http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...421/beheading_video_070421/20070421?hub=World


You can very well imagine the situation in islamic society where a tender child of barely 12 has no problems whatsoever in repeatedly chopping off the neck of a fellow human being, severing it, and holding it up by the hair in triumph.

In this context , the words of the austrian officer who witnessed the nauseating torture and killing of the bahais by islamic fundamentalists come to my mind.( as shown in my previous posts)

It is high time , the world understand the great danger and threat that islamic terrorism poses to civilization and mankind, or other wise we risk repeating all the atrocities committed by islamic terrorists ever since the 7th century A.D. and the destruction of the zoroastrian empire and civilization.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Here is an another jihadi report in the same newspaper.......



Want to sing and dance, go to India : Pak cleric

Islamabad: A radical Islamic cleric in Pakistan has said that dance and music would not be permitted in the country and those interested in the same should go to India.

" We will not wait more..... it will now be Sharia(law) or shahadat (martyrdom),"said Maulana Abdul Aziz, one of the clerics of Lal Masjid, which has threatened to impose the strict Islamic law in a months time in Islamabad.
Suring his Friday prayer sermon, he said those interested in dance and music should go to India, reports said.
Aziz vowed to enforce Sharia in the country even if the government did not itself do so, saying the "Sharia will be enforced at any cost, for which the whole nation should support the mosque's management. "



Indian music and films are very popular among pakistani muslim youth and they adore them. It probably gives them some joy in a society plagued by suicide bombings, nauseating violence and sheer insecurity.

Young people all over the world wants to enjoy their life and have some innocent healthy fun, and research has shown that this is very important for social bonding and for both mental, emotional ,social and physical health. Celebration of life is very important and a regular feature of all civilized countries.

Not so in islamic society where song, dance and having fun is prohibited. Is it any wonder that the youth in these countries become highly emotionally and psychologically repressed and frustrated, and becomes very good raw material in the hands of islamic clerics and fundamentalists to become suicide bombers and jihadists.

Hell, life sucks for these guys, but at least ,according to their reasoning, they can have some fun with the 72 virgins and boys in heaven , when they die in jihad.Hence is it any wonder that many young muslims are becoming jihadists and suicide bombers. Its all simpe psychology and logic.

 

[wizanda]

Agree on evils done in the name of any religion said to be a way of peace....that is then used as tyranny (related best in Pazand)...That is so very wrong!

All 13 Commandments need teaching to all Muslims as they can not and should never break those = Do not kill anything, all is holy!

So my question then in this, is why not pay attention to a messenger who can fix it?

 

[neves]

Okay from what you wrote it’s hard to discern what to discuss… but I will try anyways… I think I understand that you want a part of the Quran changed or something of that like… because it promotes terror and make people do aggressive thing…If you hire someone to come set up your new home theater system with hi-def TV and all… if after they finished their work, none of your entertainment system is working... are you going blame the Manuals or the Manufacturer?

When do Muslims have permission for war…? I will not tell … you see for yourself…

Quran Sura Al-Hajj (Chapter 22) (note: not the whole Sura just 10 verses before and after the relative verses)
[FONT=&quot]
“That they may witness things that are of benefit to them, and mention the name of Allah on appointed days over the beast of cattle that He hath bestowed upon them. Then eat thereof and feed therewith the poor unfortunate. (28) Then let them make an end of their unkemptness and pay their vows and go around the ancient House. (29) That (is the command). And whoso magnifieth the sacred things of Allah, it will be well for him in the sight of his Lord. The cattle are lawful unto you save that which hath been told you. So shun the filth of idols, and shun lying speech, (30) Turning unto Allah (only), not ascribing partners unto Him; for whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, it is as if he had fallen from the sky and the birds had snatched him or the wind had blown him to a far-off place. (31) That (is the command). And whoso magnifieth the offerings consecrated to Allah, it surely is from devotion of the hearts, (32) Therein are benefits for you for an appointed term; and afterward they are brought for sacrifice unto the ancient House. (33) And for every nation have We appointed a ritual, that they may mention the name of Allah over the beast of cattle that He hath given them (for food); and your God is One God, therefor surrender unto Him. And give good tidings (O Muhammad) to the humble, (34) Whose hearts fear when Allah is mentioned, and the patient of whatever may befall them, and those who establish worship and who spend of that We have bestowed on them. (35) And the camels! We have appointed them among the ceremonies of Allah. Therein ye have much good. So mention the name of Allah over them when they are drawn up in lines. Then when their flanks fall (dead), eat thereof and feed the beggar and the suppliant. Thus have We made them subject unto you, that haply ye may give thanks. (36) Their flesh and their food reach not Allah, but the devotion from you reacheth Him. Thus have We made them subject unto you that ye may magnify Allah that He hath guided you. And give good tidings (O Muhammad) to the good. (37) Lo! Allah defendeth those who are true. Lo! Allah loveth not each treacherous ingrate. (38) Sanction (to fight) is given unto those who fight because they have been wronged; and Allah is indeed Able to give them victory; (39) Those who have been driven from their homes unjustly only because they said: Our Lord is Allah - For had it not been for Allah's repelling some men by means of others, cloisters and churches and oratories and mosques, wherein the name of Allah is oft mentioned, would assuredly have been pulled down. Verily Allah helpeth one who helpeth Him. Lo! Allah is Strong, Almighty - (40) Those who, if We give them power in the land, establish worship and pay the poor-due and enjoin kindness and forbid iniquity. And Allah's is the sequel of events. (41) If they deny thee (Muhammad), even so the folk of Noah, and (the tribes of) A'ad and Thamud, before thee, denied (Our messengers); (42) And the folk of Abraham and the folk of Lot; (43) (And) the dwellers in Midian. And Moses was denied; but I indulged the disbelievers a long while, then I seized them, and how (terrible) was My abhorrence! (44) How many a township have We destroyed while it was sinful, so that it lieth (to this day) in ruins, and (how many) a deserted well and lofty tower! (45) Have they not travelled in the land, and have they hearts wherewith to feel and ears wherewith to hear? For indeed it is not the eyes that grow blind, but it is the hearts, which are within the bosoms, that grow blind. (46) And they will bid thee hasten on the Doom, and Allah faileth not His promise, but lo! a Day with Allah is as a thousand years of what ye reckon. (47) And how many a township to which I gave rispite through it was sinful! Then I grasped it. Unto Me is the return. (48) Say: O mankind! I am only a plain warner unto you. (49) Those who believe and do good works, for them is pardon and a rich provision; (50)”[/FONT]