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The Return of Christ
- Thread starter Jimmy
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Which means another Annointed One can come, one who is not known as the Son, but will be known as the Father.
Regards Tony
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Does Baha'u'llah and the Baha'is really claim that he is the "Father" as in God, the Father? It was bad enough that Christians believe Jesus is literally the Son of God.
And how does that sit with Muslims?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Baha'u'llah came in the 'station' of the Father just as Jesus came in the 'station' of the Son, which denotes their relationship with God.
But Jesus was not literally the Son of God nor was Baha'u'llah literally God the Father.
Baha'u'llah was called the Father because he came in the station of the Father.
Isaiah 9:6-7 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.
Baha'u'llah claimed to be the Father that Isaiah had foretold.
“Give ear unto that which the Dove of Eternity warbleth upon the twigs of the Divine Lote-Tree: O peoples of the earth! We sent forth him who was named John to baptize you with water, that your bodies might be cleansed for the appearance of the Messiah. He, in turn, purified you with the fire of love and the water of the spirit in anticipation of these Days whereon the All-Merciful hath purposed to cleanse you with the water of life at the hands of His loving providence. This is the Father foretold by Isaiah, and the Comforter concerning Whom the Spirit had covenanted with you. Open your eyes, O concourse of bishops, that ye may behold your Lord seated upon the Throne of might and glory.”
This is interesting because it supports what I have been saying all along, that Baha'u'llah was the Son of man who came in the glory of His Father.
Look carefully at Mark 8:38. Look at how the verse is separated by a semicolon and then the verse says “of him also” indicating that the Son of man is someone other than Jesus, who would come in the glory of his Father.
Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
Again, in Matthew 16:27, the verse says that the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father.
The verse is not Jesus saying “I will come in the glory of my Father.”
Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Look carefully at Luke 9:26. The verse separated the Son on man from Jesus (ashamed of me, of him shall), and then the verse says that the Son of man shall come in his own glory and in His Father’s glory indicating that the Son of man who will come is not Jesus.
Luke 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father’s, and of the holy angels.
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Trailblazer made the effort to give you a detailed reply, I had not made the effort.
Regards Tony
People are significantly wiser and human society significantly better than what it was 6000 years ago.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That's okay Tony, I know you are busy....
I am busy too but I have all those quotes and Bible verses in Word documents and I have an eidetic memory so I know where everything is, so I can create posts pretty fast.
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
What happend to the "Sun shall be darkened, moon looses its light, stars fall, the sign of son of man appears in heaven, many earthquakes, the Resurrection of the dead"?
The 'many earthquakes' are mentioned at Luke 21:11
As far as sun, moon and stars being darkened and falling is in the sense of being clothed with gloom ( there is a duel fulfillment )
( although Not meaning man's dark-gloomy Doom's Day Clock set close to striking the dark midnight hour )
When literal dark clouds blot out light, thus by using the material heavens means a dark-gloomy outlook for mankind
When the Roman armies destroyed unfaithful Jerusalem in the year 70 that was a dark and gloomy 1st Century time ( 1st fulfillment )
But Jesus major or modern connection at Matt. 24:29-31; Luke 21:25-27 compared with Rev. 6:12-17; 7:14 is when Jesus returns
Mark 13:24-25 speaks of celestial phenomena taking place 'after' the 1st-century tribulation in the year 70 ( 2nd fulfillment )
So we have both a symbolic light from 'mankind's governing light' over humanity being darkened, and including some awesome things supernatural happenings to cause fear - Luke 21:25-26,28; Rev. 6:15-17
As far as Matthew 27:52-53 that is Not about a resurrection but just corpses being exposed because of the earth quaking
Living people who saw the many bodies (corpses) went into the city......
Remember: No one was resurrected before Jesus -1st Cor. 15:20,23 - and Jesus was Not resurrected the day he died - Acts 2:27
Counting forward from 6,000 years ago advances in medicine and science have Not made for a wise and safe human society
I find No other Anointed One but Jesus coming as Messiah in the first century and teaching us about a duel fulfillment
Two parts to be fulfilled: One 'minor' fulfillment in the 1st century, and a MAJOR fulfillment for our day or time frame
Jesus as being King of God's Kingdom government for a thousand years - 1st Corinthians 15:24-26
That major fulfillment is reflected in Isaiah.
“For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6).
That is not Jesus name, thus the another Son with another Name is given.
Isaiah 9:6 is referring to Baha'u'llah ("Glory of God"). It is Baha'u'llah who had the government upon His shoulders and it was Baha'u'llah that gave the Message of peace to all the rulers, priests, Governments and peoples of the World.
The most amazing things about this is that of prophecies concerning the end of ages. Only a handful or so can be attributed to be connected to Jesus, yet truckloads can be attributed to be connected to Baha'u'llah, yet Christians so easily negate Baha'u'llah.
That to me really indicates the corruption of the of the Bible by false prophets, runs very deep.
Regards Tony
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
It is also in Daniel 7.
Christians believe that the following verses are about Jesus, but since Jesus was the Son of man, as Jesus claimed to be, the following verses cannot be about the Jesus.
Daniel 7:13-14 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
I believe those verses are about Baha'u'llah who was one like Jesus, who was the return of the Son of man.
Jesus ascended into heaven. Baha’u’llah, one like the son of man, descended from the heaven of the Will of God, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. Those verses are about an earthly Kingdom, not a heavenly Kingdom.
Jesus’ Kingdom is in heaven, Baha’u’llah’s Kingdom will be on earth, after it is built by humans.
John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Calling it the "station" of the son and "station" of the father is only meaningful to Baha'is. And in that "unto us a child is given" Are you applying that to both Jesus and Baha'u'llah?
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
The meaningful part of the prophecy has not been fulfilled... increase in peace. So, whether Christians say this is about Jesus or Baha'is say it is about Baha'u'llah, it doesn't mean much until it happens. Plus, to take the title of "Glory of God" doesn't mean much. There's people that took the name Maitreya, even Yahweh.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
It could be meaningful to other people if they understood what it means.
Isaiah 9:6-7 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.
'Unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given' sounds like it is about Jesus, but in my opinion the whole verse applies to Baha'u'llah, since the government is upon his shoulder and his name is Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Tony might have another opinion.
They One and All the Child of God, they are all the Son of God, they are all the Father, the 'Self of God' given to Humanity in every age.
There is no difference between the Messengers CG, that is thecentral theme given by Baha'u'llah. Tge Oneness of the Messengers reflects all the Names and Attributes of the One God.
It was to Baha'u'llah God gave the Title to and Station of the Father in this age, "The Day of God", as promised in all scriptures, in one way or another.
Regards Tony
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, the Messengers are not all the Son of God. Only Jesus was the Son of God, just as only Baha'u'llah was the Father.
Actually, that is not true.
“These Manifestations of God have each a twofold station. One is the station of pure abstraction and essential unity. In this respect, if thou callest them all by one name, and dost ascribe to them the same attributes, thou hast not erred from the truth. Even as He hath revealed: “No distinction do We make between any of His Messengers.” For they, one and all, summon the people of the earth to acknowledge the unity of God, and herald unto them the Kawthar of an infinite grace and bounty. They are all invested with the robe of prophethood, and are honored with the mantle of glory.....
The other station is the station of distinction, and pertaineth to the world of creation, and to the limitations thereof. In this respect, each Manifestation of God hath a distinct individuality, a definitely prescribed mission, a predestined revelation, and specially designated limitations. Each one of them is known by a different name, is characterized by a special attribute, fulfils a definite mission, and is entrusted with a particular Revelation.”
I was giving that statement in the first instance, in the first stationTrailblazer.
“These Manifestations of God have each a twofold station. One is the station of pure abstraction and essential unity. In this respect, if thou callest them all by one name, and dost ascribe to them the same attributes, thou hast not erred from the truth. Even as He hath revealed: “No distinction do We make between any of His Messengers.” For they, one and all, summon the people of the earth to acknowledge the unity of God, and herald unto them the Kawthar of an infinite grace and bounty. They are all invested with the robe of prophethood, and are honored with the mantle of glory.....
Regards Tony
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
This part is being a little literal about it, though I like the rest.