The Return of Christ

[danieldemol]

Baha'is believe that the seat of the government has already been established and it is called is the Universal House of Justice (UHJ) located on Mount Carmel in Haifa, Israel thus fulfilling the prophecy cited above.

Ah and yet Baha'i apologists try to claim Baha'i is not theocratic even though they at the same time claim the seat of the government is the Baha'i Universal House of Justice in my view.

I believe that's called speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

 

[sayak83]

Counting forward from 6,000 years ago advances in medicine and science have Not made for a wise and safe human society

Yes they have. Lifespan has increased, mortality rates have plummeted. By any measure a baby born today is far more likely to live a longer and better life than one 6000 years ago.

 

[Trailblazer]

Ah and yet Baha'i apologists try to claim Baha'i is not theocratic even though they at the same time claim the seat of the government is the Baha'i Universal House of Justice in my view.

I believe that's called speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

I am not a Baha'i apologist.
In the sense that Baha'is believe that the UHJ is divinely guided it is theocratic.

What is a theocracy in simple terms?

theocracy, government by divine guidance or by officials who are regarded as divinely guided. In many theocracies, government leaders are members of the clergy, and the state's legal system is based on religious law.Jul 3, 2024
Theocracy | Definition, Examples, & Facts - Britannica

However, since the UHJ does not hold political power or dictate to the Baha'is what they have to do, it does not function as a dictatorship.

Is theocracy a dictatorship?

Most theocratic governments function similarly to either monarchies or dictatorships, as those who hold political power serve the god of their religion first and the citizens of the country next.Jun 29, 2022
What Is Theocracy? Definition and Examples - ThoughtCo

The UHJ is supposed to provide divine guidance, but not dictate what we have to do.

 

[CG Didymus]

Ah and yet Baha'i apologists try to claim Baha'i is not theocratic even though they at the same time claim the seat of the government is the Baha'i Universal House of Justice in my view.

I believe that's called speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

Hmmm? Is it a religion that believes it's governing body, the UHJ, is divinely guided? I'd say yes they do. To complete the prophecy they say that Baha'u'llah has fulfilled, they will have to rule the world. That sounds a lot like one of those birds that have a long, flat bill and swim on the water and, when they are on land, they walk funny.... kind of a waddle.

And that's just great they can make some verses from the Jewish Bible fit their religion. They also can make some of the verses in the NT fit. But what about Islam? I wonder if they think Haifa, Israel is going to be where God's Kingdom is going to be centered?

And then what about Hinduism and Buddhism? I can't imagine there are any prophecies that get Kalki or the Maitreya anywhere near Israel.

But even with the Jews... I can't imagine their Messiah not even going to Jerusalem.

But I think it's even questionable that they fulfill the Christian prophecies... especially the ones in Revelation. Not only do I question them making the "Two Witnesses" Muhammad and Ali, I question them making the "Three Woes" Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah... especially considering that just a few chapters after that, there are more "Woes", and the Baha'is say nothing about these ones. If they are going to be consistent, that a "Woe" is one of their manifestations of God, then why aren't these "Woes" from Rev. 18:16-19 manifestations of God?

Threefold Woe Over Babylon’s Fall​

“‘Woe! Woe to you, great city,​

you mighty city of Babylon!​

In one hour your doom has come!’​

​

“‘Woe! Woe to you, great city,​

dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet,​

and glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls!​

In one hour such great wealth has been brought to ruin!’​

​

“‘Woe! Woe to you, great city,​

where all who had ships on the sea​

became rich through her wealth!​

In one hour she has been brought to ruin!’​

​

Only these "Woes" they make manifestations...

Rev. 8:13 As I watched, I heard an eagle that was flying in midair call out in a loud voice: “Woe! Woe! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels!”​

But, other than cherry-picking the Bible and the NT, I think it's a fine religion... If it stays small. If they ever ruled the world, I think it would turn into a theocratic dictatorship. Why would they let anyone challenge their beliefs and power? Since, even now, if a member challenges the leadership, they can get kicked out, ostracized and labeled... "Covenant Breakers" and even shunned by their family. And if they don't shun them, they'll probably get kicked out too. Here's something on "Covenant Breakers".

Because of the religion’s stress on unity, there is considerable insecurity about the expression of dissent and a fear of internal enemies. Conformity is enforced by sanctions, excommunication, and shunning, and information is controlled through a system of censorship. Although the religion is governed by elected institutions, they are not held accountable to the electorate. Moreover, the supreme governing institution is believed to be infallible. While the spread of the Internet in the 1990s has weakened the administration’s control of information, the Baha’i leadership has threatened and sanctioned liberal intellectuals for the expression of their opinions on e-mail forums.​

 

[blü 2]

Hmmm? Is it a religion that believes it's governing body, the UHJ, is divinely guided? I'd say yes they do. To complete the prophecy they say that Baha'u'llah has fulfilled, they will have to rule the world. That sounds a lot like one of those birds that have a long, flat bill and swim on the water and, when they are on land, they walk funny.... kind of a waddle.

And that's just great they can make some verses from the Jewish Bible fit their religion. They also can make some of the verses in the NT fit. But what about Islam? I wonder if they think Haifa, Israel is going to be where God's Kingdom is going to be centered?

And then what about Hinduism and Buddhism? I can't imagine there are any prophecies that get Kalki or the Maitreya anywhere near Israel.

But even with the Jews... I can't imagine their Messiah not even going to Jerusalem.

The problem for all religions is that there are no right answers, because there are no objective tests.

How many versions of Christianity are there? When did the Christian God require monogamy? Become triune? Reject slavery? Accept homosexuality? Allow divorce? Split into thousands of different churches?

So without a ruling body to say what it all means, there can't be consistency for very long. No one's opinion / interpretation / revelation / deduction / translation / &c is objectively superior to anyone else's. Who will win when Superman fights Captain America?

 

[CG Didymus]

The problem for all religions is that there are no right answers, because there are no objective tests.

Yet... so many people in a religion or a sect of a religion argues that theirs is right. I knew a Baha'i in the 70's that argued with Christians on how Baha'u'llah was the return of Christ. Then he got "saved" and was arguing with Baha'is on how Baha'u'llah was a false prophet.

Although, I don't believe any of them to be right in what they say about God and other unprovable things, I do think if a person believes most any religion and tries to apply the teachings of being loving and kind and all those sorts of things, they will become a better person. But I've never met a perfectly kind and loving person. Because with the belief that their religion is "The Truth" comes a little, or a lot, of acting as if their beliefs are better and truer than the beliefs of other people.

And, with some religions, a person is only nice to others to try and get them to convert. And with some religions the behavior of others is seen as evil. And the religious person has no problem telling others how evil their behavior is. And, of course, that person or other people in the religion do those same "evil" behaviors... but in secret.

So, yeah... I agree, no right answers.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Hmmm? Is it a religion that believes it's governing body, the UHJ, is divinely guided? I'd say yes they do. To complete the prophecy they say that Baha'u'llah has fulfilled, they will have to rule the world. That sounds a lot like one of those birds that have a long, flat bill and swim on the water and, when they are on land, they walk funny.... kind of a waddle.

And that's just great they can make some verses from the Jewish Bible fit their religion. They also can make some of the verses in the NT fit. But what about Islam? I wonder if they think Haifa, Israel is going to be where God's Kingdom is going to be centered?

And then what about Hinduism and Buddhism? I can't imagine there are any prophecies that get Kalki or the Maitreya anywhere near Israel.

But even with the Jews... I can't imagine their Messiah not even going to Jerusalem.

But I think it's even questionable that they fulfill the Christian prophecies... especially the ones in Revelation. Not only do I question them making the "Two Witnesses" Muhammad and Ali, I question them making the "Three Woes" Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah... especially considering that just a few chapters after that, there are more "Woes", and the Baha'is say nothing about these ones. If they are going to be consistent, that a "Woe" is one of their manifestations of God, then why aren't these "Woes" from Rev. 18:16-19 manifestations of God?

Threefold Woe Over Babylon’s Fall​

“‘Woe! Woe to you, great city,​

you mighty city of Babylon!​

In one hour your doom has come!’​

​

“‘Woe! Woe to you, great city,​

dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet,​

and glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls!​

In one hour such great wealth has been brought to ruin!’​

​

“‘Woe! Woe to you, great city,​

where all who had ships on the sea​

became rich through her wealth!​

In one hour she has been brought to ruin!’​

​

Only these "Woes" they make manifestations...

Rev. 8:13 As I watched, I heard an eagle that was flying in midair call out in a loud voice: “Woe! Woe! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels!”​

But, other than cherry-picking the Bible and the NT, I think it's a fine religion... If it stays small. If they ever ruled the world, I think it would turn into a theocratic dictatorship. Why would they let anyone challenge their beliefs and power? Since, even now, if a member challenges the leadership, they can get kicked out, ostracized and labeled... "Covenant Breakers" and even shunned by their family. And if they don't shun them, they'll probably get kicked out too. Here's something on "Covenant Breakers".

Because of the religion’s stress on unity, there is considerable insecurity about the expression of dissent and a fear of internal enemies. Conformity is enforced by sanctions, excommunication, and shunning, and information is controlled through a system of censorship. Although the religion is governed by elected institutions, they are not held accountable to the electorate. Moreover, the supreme governing institution is believed to be infallible. While the spread of the Internet in the 1990s has weakened the administration’s control of information, the Baha’i leadership has threatened and sanctioned liberal intellectuals for the expression of their opinions on e-mail forums.​

I used to have inner conflict about God and religion so I rejected all of them because all they were doing was condemning each other. Then I came across a book called the Book of Certitude by Baha’u’llah and it opened my eyes to the truth that all religions come from God and that gave me so much inner peace I cannot explain. Now I read the Bible or Quran or Gita and love it and accept it all and do not feel conflicted as they all say the same thing.

I think that what is meant by Christ’s return is that it will be an age of reconciliation when gradually the differences that have caused so many wars, will be overcome. We see signs of this in things like the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the emergence of human rights associations all over the world and the status of women being promoted. All these signs and many more indicate that we have entered the beginning of the age when ‘the wolf shall dwell with the lamb”. It is a process not an event which is mistaken by many to occur over centuries not instantly. Only Christ having already returned as the Father as promised I believe could have been responsible for this new emphasis on peace and reconciliation. And as the age evolves I believe humanity will witness peace

 

[blü 2]

Yet... so many people in a religion or a sect of a religion argues that theirs is right. I knew a Baha'i in the 70's that argued with Christians on how Baha'u'llah was the return of Christ. Then he got "saved" and was arguing with Baha'is on how Baha'u'llah was a false prophet.

Although, I don't believe any of them to be right in what they say about God and other unprovable things, I do think if a person believes most any religion and tries to apply the teachings of being loving and kind and all those sorts of things, they will become a better person. But I've never met a perfectly kind and loving person. Because with the belief that their religion is "The Truth" comes a little, or a lot, of acting as if their beliefs are better and truer than the beliefs of other people.

And, with some religions, a person is only nice to others to try and get them to convert. And with some religions the behavior of others is seen as evil. And the religious person has no problem telling others how evil their behavior is. And, of course, that person or other people in the religion do those same "evil" behaviors... but in secret.

So, yeah... I agree, no right answers.

I substantially agree. My view is that it doesn't matter whether a person believes in God, or gods, or Buddha or Confucius &c or has no religion. ─ what matters is whether they treat others with decency, respect, inclusion and common sense.

 

[CG Didymus]

it opened my eyes to the truth that all religions come from God

Well, that's great for you. But one of the important things I learned from the Baha'i Faith is a personal investigation of truth. And I don't believe what the Baha'i Faith teaches about all religions coming from the same, one God is true. There's too many religions that get left out.

The one's I usually mention are the religions of the Greeks, the Egyptians, the Chinese, and the Aztecs. There were several people in the Bible that had a religion and had their own Gods. The God of Israel told his people that those other people followed false Gods and had false religions, and even told his people to go kill them.

Because of that, I think there are several religions and Gods that were made up by the people. But then to look at the Bible and the NT, even if some of it is true, some of it sure seems to be made up. And that is supported by the Baha'i Faith too, when it says things like Satan isn't real, that Jesus didn't come back to life, that the flood never happened and so on.

Baha'is may call those things "symbolically" true, but I call them religious myth. Which, to me, isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just what ancient people did to explain why they are here. But the stories were fictional.

Now I read the Bible or Quran or Gita and love it and accept it all and do not feel conflicted as they all say the same thing.

Funny, I read them and see how different they all are. But I'm okay with them being different, again, because I think the people at that time, in that culture, came up with those stories and it became their truth.

Similarities? Sure. But I can't ignore or explain away the differences the way Baha'is do. Like with Christianity... Satan is important. The fall of Adam is important. And the resurrection of Jesus is important. But to Baha'is... none of those things are true. They are explained away by making them symbolic.

And the same with Hinduism... Krishna is made a manifestation, but his teaching on reincarnation is re-interpreted to mean something other than how Hindus believe it to be. Plus, Baha'u'llah never named him a manifestation. And even when Abdul Baha' declared Krishna to be a manifestation, all of his previous "incarnations" aren't talked about.

Now I don't have a problem with learning and appreciating the beliefs of other people, but that doesn't mean I believe them to all be true and from the same one God. With a religion like Hinduism, I'm okay with their belief that there were many Gods. I don't have to change that belief. It was their belief and was how they saw things.

We see signs of this in things like the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the emergence of human rights associations all over the world and the status of women being promoted.

Yes, and there's also marches for Gay Rights and the right of women to have abortions. There are protests in the U.S. against anti-gun laws. The big one happening now is that weapons like AK47 should remain legal. There are marches for White Supremacy. So, for every march or movement we might like and agree with, there are a lot of people that disagree with us and have their own "rights" that they stand for.

And some of the people protesting against things like Gay Rights and Abortion are Christians. And if Baha'is were allowed to protest, I wonder, would they join them?

So, it's wonderful how you always see the positive side of things, but is everything as rosy as you see it? Some of the bad stuff going on can't be ignored.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

This reply is what I would call defensive, and giving an excuse.

It is the station of distinction that is at conflict and dispute in this world.

The station of Oneness is what I am trying to embrace.

This is from a favourite prayer.

"... Turn these souls into heavenly angels, resuscitate them through the breath of Thy Holy Spirit, grant them eloquent tongues and resolute hearts, bestow upon them heavenly power and merciful susceptibilities, cause them to become the promulgators of the oneness of mankind and the cause of love and concord in the world of humanity, so that the perilous darkness of ignorant prejudice may vanish through the light of the Sun of Truth, this dreary world may become illumined, this material realm may absorb the rays of the world of spirit, these different colors may merge into one color and the melody of praise may rise to the kingdom of Thy sanctity.

Verily, Thou art the Omnipotent and the Almighty! —‘Abdu’l‑Bahá

I see this Oneness lays in the Oneness of the Messengers, it is obvious this world is a world of distinctions, this Forum spends year after year, month after month, day after day, hour after hour arguing over this realm of distinction.

Is it not time to embrace the station of Absolute Unity?

I am here less and less, I am still too divisive.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

I see this Oneness lays in the Oneness of the Messengers,

Just because the Baha'i Faith says they are one, doesn't make them one.

it is obvious this world is a world of distinctions,

All we have is the things the followers have said... And those things make the teachings of the messenger distinct.

Adam? Well, I don't know what his message was.

Noah? From the Bible story, he separated himself from every other human being on the planet except his own family.

Abraham? Tell me the Baha'is say his message was? But it seems like he separated himself from the polytheistic beliefs of the people around him.

Moses separated the Hebrews from the Egyptians, and they then went on to conquer the land of Canaan. The Bible stories are all about them fighting the people around and their false religions.

Jesus? He separated his followers from Judaism. And so on with the rest of the major religions.

Is it not time to embrace the station of Absolute Unity?

Station? You mean like the "station" of the Son? And the "station" of the Father? The words in the message of the Baha'i Faith separates it from all the other messages. Everything about the Baha'i Faith makes Baha'is distinct. But does it make them right? No, Baha'is have to show how their prophet and his teachings are right. How they are different and distinct from all the other religions.

I am here less and less, I am still too divisive.

Your religion is still divisive. But, for Baha'is, you believe it is the rest of the world that is the problem. Because they don't believe in the Baha'i message of "unity". For those of us that question the validity of the Baha'i Faith, we don't want to be in "unity" with a religion that could possibly be false.

Lots of people have fallen in line with cult leaders. I'm sure that to their followers the things they said sounded good... and sounded like the truth. But it wasn't. The world should not just accept them, and be in "unity" with them.

Until proven true, the Baha'i Faith is in that same situation. People from all the major religions have some reasons to doubt that Baha'u'llah is their "Promised One".

One of the Baha'i messages that I hear is that the world won't accept the Baha'i Faith... not until the world falls apart. That's very divisive. That's telling the world that the Baha'i Faith is the only way... Baha'u'llah's teachings are the only remedy to the problems the world is facing. That's an "us vs. them" kind of message. Those that "believe" and have "seen" the light and those that are "lost" and "blind" to the truth.

Sure, there's unity for many of those that have joined the Baha'i Faith. But how are Baha'is going to bring unity and be in unity with those that don't believe in Baha'u'llah?

If it's true, you Baha'is have to live it and show it is true. Like if you say you love everybody, you've got to show it... Not just say it. Otherwise your words are kind of meaningless.

So, don't be less and less here. Be a better example of what a true Baha'i should be. After all, you might be right. The Baha'i Faith might be our only hope.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So, don't be less and less here. Be a better example of what a true Baha'i should be. After all, you might be right. The Baha'i Faith might be our only hope.

That us why I will be less and less here, as a True Baha'i becomes the words, they are out there living the words, showing the world that changing ourselves is possible, becoming beacons in a darkening world.

Too easy for those words to misunderstood on an open forum. Too easy for them to become the plaything of the ignorant.

Take care CG, I do hope you traverse these rapidly changing times safety and that all that you are after, becomes yours.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Hmmm? Is it a religion that believes it's governing body, the UHJ, is divinely guided? I'd say yes they do. To complete the prophecy they say that Baha'u'llah has fulfilled, they will have to rule the world. That sounds a lot like one of those birds that have a long, flat bill and swim on the water and, when they are on land, they walk funny.... kind of a waddle.

That is exactly how the holy writings of every dispensation become a plaything of the ignorant CG.

The Universal House of Justice role is not to rule the World, Messengers have never come to rule the World.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

One of the Baha'i messages that I hear is that the world won't accept the Baha'i Faith... not until the world falls apart. That's very divisive. That's telling the world that the Baha'i Faith is the only way... Baha'u'llah's teachings are the only remedy to the problems the world is facing. That's an "us vs. them" kind of message. Those that "believe" and have "seen" the light and those that are "lost" and "blind" to the truth.

Its the nature of God Messengers to humanity CG, it has happened since record began.

That is God showing us the way and our rebellious adolescent approach to such a gift.

Regards Tony

 

[Truthseeker]

Funny, I read them and see how different they all are. But I'm okay with them being different, again, because I think the people at that time, in that culture, came up with those stories and it became their truth.

Similarities? Sure. But I can't ignore or explain away the differences the way Baha'is do. Like with Christianity... Satan is important. The fall of Adam is important. And the resurrection of Jesus is important. But to Baha'is... none of those things are true. They are explained away by making them symbolic.

And the same with Hinduism... Krishna is made a manifestation, but his teaching on reincarnation is re-interpreted to mean something other than how Hindus believe it to be. Plus, Baha'u'llah never named him a manifestation. And even when Abdul Baha' declared Krishna to be a manifestation, all of his previous "incarnations" aren't talked about.

Now I don't have a problem with learning and appreciating the beliefs of other people, but that doesn't mean I believe them to all be true and from the same one God. With a religion like Hinduism, I'm okay with their belief that there were many Gods. I don't have to change that belief. It was their belief and was how they saw things.

Yes, like you said there are similarities, and it is more nuanced than @loverofhumanity said, I think he will agree with what I say here. You see, the message is tailored to each time and place, so there are definitely differences between all religions. There's the additional scholarly problem with how much of what was passed down over decades or centuries is true.

Those Christian beliefs, I know you know, are the interpretations of a number of Christians compiled over 2000 years, and Christians don't agree with each other on a number of points. Satan is still important, but Baha'is have a different understanding of what Satan is based on our scriptures. Come to think of it,the Resurrection of Jesus is also important. The Resurrection is the disciples regaining their faith. I have no idea, frankly, what those conflicting stories in the 4 Gospels are about. How much is fictional, and how much is true, or how much is symbolic, and if symbolic what is the symbolic meaning of a lot of that?

As to Krishna, some of what is in the Bhagavad-Gita specifically said does seem to match what Hindus believe about reincarnation, but what to make of a discourse that happens within a mythological tale? I'm fine with Hindus being how they are, there are some very good Hindus. That's what is the most important, how they behave, and they may have a connection with God.

 

[CG Didymus]

Too easy for those words to misunderstood on an open forum. Too easy for them to become the plaything of the ignorant.

Yeah, how do you think the Born-Again Christians feel? They know Jesus is the only way. They know Jesus is the only hope. Yet, even Baha'is tell them how wrong they are on interpreting their own Scriptures. And what do they say about those of us that doubt their beliefs? We are ignorant of the truth. We are blind to the truth.

That is exactly how the holy writings of every dispensation become a plaything of the ignorant CG.

So, are the "Holy" writings becoming the plaything of the ignorant? Or, as with the case of the Born-Again Christians, are they the ignorant? They refuse to see the "light" of science that shows us the evidence that the Earth is older than a few thousand years... and there wasn't a world-wide flood. And that dead people don't come back to life after three days.

The Universal House of Justice role is not to rule the World, Messengers have never come to rule the World.

But that's the prophecy that Baha'is claim Baha'u'llah has fulfilled... the government will be on his shoulders and he will rule the nations. And he didn't.

Its the nature of God Messengers to humanity CG, it has happened since record began.

Again, I'll use the Christians as an example. If 2000 years ago a Christian told a Jew that Jesus was the Son of God and had risen from the dead, should they have believed them? And it only gets worse when the Church made Jesus part of a Godhead. The message wasn't only divisive, but it was wrong... and that's according to Baha'i beliefs too.

That is God showing us the way and our rebellious adolescent approach to such a gift.

So, God wasn't showing anybody the way... if the Baha'i Faith is correct, the Christian message was wrong... about Satan, about the resurrection and about Jesus being God.

But yes, you and other Baha'is should be the best Baha'is you can be, but you also have to be the voice of your religion to others. And right here is a great place to show people what being a Baha'i should be. There's a lot of people that read these threads and don't necessarily post. But they see how we treat each other. If Baha'is treat others in a loving and respectful way, even when attacked, what can people say? They still might not agree with your beliefs, but they won't be able to say anything bad about your character.

 

[CG Didymus]

I'm fine with Hindus being how they are, there are some very good Hindus. That's what is the most important, how they behave, and they may have a connection with God.

Now I question the stories in the various Scriptures, but I do believe that the followers of a religion will probably behave better if they take their Scriptures as being true.

Like a person that believes they'll be reincarnated into a better situation if they do good, they'll probably try to do good. Or a person that believes they will be rewarded by God in heaven if they obey God's laws, will probably try and obey those laws.

But a person that doesn't believe those stories are literally true? They'll probably have little incentive to obey those laws.

But then there's those that say they believe, but then break all the spiritual laws. Probably every religion has people like that. And since nobody's perfect, maybe they're all a little like that.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Well, that's great for you. But one of the important things I learned from the Baha'i Faith is a personal investigation of truth. And I don't believe what the Baha'i Faith teaches about all religions coming from the same, one God is true. There's too many religions that get left out.

The one's I usually mention are the religions of the Greeks, the Egyptians, the Chinese, and the Aztecs. There were several people in the Bible that had a religion and had their own Gods. The God of Israel told his people that those other people followed false Gods and had false religions, and even told his people to go kill them.

Because of that, I think there are several religions and Gods that were made up by the people. But then to look at the Bible and the NT, even if some of it is true, some of it sure seems to be made up. And that is supported by the Baha'i Faith too, when it says things like Satan isn't real, that Jesus didn't come back to life, that the flood never happened and so on.

Baha'is may call those things "symbolically" true, but I call them religious myth. Which, to me, isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just what ancient people did to explain why they are here. But the stories were fictional.

Funny, I read them and see how different they all are. But I'm okay with them being different, again, because I think the people at that time, in that culture, came up with those stories and it became their truth.

Similarities? Sure. But I can't ignore or explain away the differences the way Baha'is do. Like with Christianity... Satan is important. The fall of Adam is important. And the resurrection of Jesus is important. But to Baha'is... none of those things are true. They are explained away by making them symbolic.

And the same with Hinduism... Krishna is made a manifestation, but his teaching on reincarnation is re-interpreted to mean something other than how Hindus believe it to be. Plus, Baha'u'llah never named him a manifestation. And even when Abdul Baha' declared Krishna to be a manifestation, all of his previous "incarnations" aren't talked about.

Now I don't have a problem with learning and appreciating the beliefs of other people, but that doesn't mean I believe them to all be true and from the same one God. With a religion like Hinduism, I'm okay with their belief that there were many Gods. I don't have to change that belief. It was their belief and was how they saw things.

Yes, and there's also marches for Gay Rights and the right of women to have abortions. There are protests in the U.S. against anti-gun laws. The big one happening now is that weapons like AK47 should remain legal. There are marches for White Supremacy. So, for every march or movement we might like and agree with, there are a lot of people that disagree with us and have their own "rights" that they stand for.

And some of the people protesting against things like Gay Rights and Abortion are Christians. And if Baha'is were allowed to protest, I wonder, would they join them?

So, it's wonderful how you always see the positive side of things, but is everything as rosy as you see it? Some of the bad stuff going on can't be ignored.

I think it all depends on one’s perspective. Whether one’s aim in life is to focus on the spiritual virtues that all religions teach or fight over theology and interpretation. I believe all the religions seek to spiritually advance humanity to the point we will evolve into peaceful people with our attractions towards the beauty in life and each other. I don’t think that focusing on things like the devil or controversial issues will bring lasting solutions because I believe the cause of our problems is a basic lack of spirituality. We have become too materialistic so that we fight and kill over land that will one day be our grave.

Reconciling our differences as we learn the hard lessons through war and bloodshed will set us on the right path - to settle disputes through dialogue not guns and bombs. We are learning this lesson the hard way. We could have attuned ourselves to any holy book and be at peace. Buddha in the Dhammapada says only love can defeat hate and in the Quran it says to return good for evil.

There is no magic cure or anyone who is going to come down from the sky and suddenly we will have utopia.

What must transpire is for all religionists, all of us, to begin to practice our teachings. For by doing this we can save the world. When Christ comes? after the calamity? none of these, even the coming of Baha’u’llah will make one iota of difference if these teachings are not put into practice. So it’s up to all of us to create the world we want by changing ourselves. We can come together and be as a family if we have the wish and desire. But practising the spiritual teachings of our religion/s is what will ultimately bring us together.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Jesus spoke of his second coming several times in the Bible.

He came back three days later, so technically we all missed it.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Jesus spoke of his second coming several times in the Bible.

He came back three days later, so technically we all missed it.