The Return of Christ

[URAVIP2ME]

You are free to believe that if you want to, but that is not what I believe. It is also not what the Bible says about the seat of the government in the last days.
Isaiah 2 King James Version (KJV)
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
Baha'is believe that the seat of the government has already been established and it is called is the Universal House of Justice (UHJ) located on Mount Carmel in Haifa, Israel thus fulfilling the prophecy cited above.
Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
The verse says "shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed."
The verse does not say "shall Jesus in heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed."

Isaiah connects to the future at Revelation 21 that the mountain of the LORD's house is in the fulfillment in heavenly Jerusalem
Besides Isaiah 2, we find at Micah 4:1-4 in connection to the future here on Earth
A beautiful paradisical Earth as Isaiah's word picture paint for us in the 35th chapter of Isaiah
Jesus did Not set up God's Kingdom but rather asked us to ask God for God's Kingdom to come ( thy kingdom come......... )
Please notice what Jesus does at the end of his 1000 year reign over Earth at 1st Corinthians 15:24-26 _________________

 

[URAVIP2ME]

He came back three days later, so technically we all missed it.

Did you ever read Jesus' words at Luke 19:11-15 ( pay special note to verse 11 B )

 

[URAVIP2ME]

He came back three days later, so technically we all missed it.

We also missed, or were Not there, to see what happened to 'resurrected Jesus' 40 days later at Acts 1:8

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Nice picture!

Universal House of Justice (post # 420) in Scripture it is Heavenly Jerusalem as per Revelation 21
Heavenly Jerusalem is the seat of government separate from existing governments on Earth
Jesus with co-rulers, resurrected heavenly kings and priests (Re. 5:9-10), will govern over Earth
People like King David will then be a Prince on Earth - Ezekiel 34:24; Isaiah 32:1; Psalm 45:16

 

[Trailblazer]

Isaiah connects to the future at Revelation 21 that the mountain of the LORD's house is in the fulfillment in heavenly Jerusalem
Besides Isaiah 2, we find at Micah 4:1-4 in connection to the future here on Earth

Micah 4 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
4 But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the Lord of hosts hath spoken it.

All those prophecies have already been fulfilled.

The Seat of the Universal House of Justice and its members reside in Haifa, Israel, on the slope of Mount Carmel.[1] The most recent election was 29 April 2023.[6] Although all other elected and appointed roles in the Baháʼí Faith are open to men and women, membership on the Universal House of Justice is male-only; the Baháʼí writings indicate that the reason for this will become clear in the future.[7]

Universal House of Justice - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A beautiful paradisical Earth as Isaiah's word picture paint for us in the 35th chapter of Isaiah
Jesus did Not set up God's Kingdom but rather asked us to ask God for God's Kingdom to come ( thy kingdom come......... )
Please notice what Jesus does at the end of his 1000 year reign over Earth at 1st Corinthians 15:24-26 _________________

Isaiah prophesied that the Plain of Sharon and the holy mountain, Carmel, would both be centres for the light and presence of the ‘Glory of the Lord’ in the last days. He said:

“The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.” (Isaiah 35:1).

“It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God.” (Isaiah 35:2).

“And the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.” (Isaiah 35:10).

Again in the chapter preceding the one in which he, Isaiah, promises that God will raise up a ‘righteous man from the East’, he foretells:
“And the Glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of God hath spoken it.” (Isaiah 40:5).

"In that same year (1890) Bahá’u’lláh’s tent, the “Tabernacle of Glory,” was raised on Mt. Carmel, “the Hill of God and His Vineyard,” the home of Elijah, extolled by Isaiah as the “mountain of the Lord,” to which “all nations shall flow.” Four times He visited Haifa, His last visit being no less than three months long. In the course of one of these visits, when His tent was pitched in the vicinity of the Carmelite Monastery, He, the “Lord of the Vineyard,” revealed the Tablet of Carmel, remarkable for its allusions and prophecies. On another occasion He pointed out Himself to ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, as He stood on the slopes of that mountain, the site which was to serve as the permanent resting-place of the Báb, and on which a befitting mausoleum was later to be erected." (God Passes By, p. 194)

https://bahai-library.com/pdf/s/sears_thief_night.pdf

Above Haifa, Israel, stands Mt. Carmel, proclaiming the Glory of the Lord has come.

 

[Truthseeker]

People like King David will then be a Prince on Earth - Ezekiel 34:24; Isaiah 32:1; Psalm 45:16

Some Jews are expecting that too. They were also expecting that also 2000 years ago.

 

[Balthazzar]

I'm a believer of Jesus, but not the Paulinian side of Christianity so I don't believe in the rapture, Armageddon, and all that. I believe "Jesus" or the eternal soul we know by that name "may" return when all other souls have reached sanctification in this worldly life as he did. He was the first, IMB, to break the cycle of reincarnation and the progression of soul perfection. I also feel it could have been that he did not realize he would endure to the end, so his return may have been in reference to his next incarnation. But although he cried "why have you forsaken me?" he did not lose his faith, and became "the firstborn of the dead."

I'm a believer, also but I view this a little differently. I do believe in the rapture and I believe that those who answer the call to God's honor - in spirit and in truth, are set apart for that very reason. Truth oriented people error less than those who are not. We are gathered as a body in the clouds. Some would say beneath them, but they are part of our atmosphere, so the clouds are where we reside on earth. The body that is Christ, indwelled by this holy spirit, whom Christ is the head of, carries over through many, many people. When truth reigns supreme, and we are able and willing to discern between truth and error as a people, spread across the entire earth, that is when we will know that Christ has returned, and the creation set free from its bondage by the children of God.

I have been known to favor atheists for this very reason. I'll stick with the body just the same ...

 

[Truthseeker]

Micah 4 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
4 But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the Lord of hosts hath spoken it.

All those prophecies have already been fulfilled.

The Seat of the Universal House of Justice and its members reside in Haifa, Israel, on the slope of Mount Carmel.[1] The most recent election was 29 April 2023.[6] Although all other elected and appointed roles in the Baháʼí Faith are open to men and women, membership on the Universal House of Justice is male-only; the Baháʼí writings indicate that the reason for this will become clear in the future.[7]

Universal House of Justice - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Isaiah prophesied that the Plain of Sharon and the holy mountain, Carmel, would both be centres for the light and presence of the ‘Glory of the Lord’ in the last days. He said:

“The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.” (Isaiah 35:1).

“It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God.” (Isaiah 35:2).

“And the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.” (Isaiah 35:10).

Again in the chapter preceding the one in which he, Isaiah, promises that God will raise up a ‘righteous man from the East’, he foretells:
“And the Glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of God hath spoken it.” (Isaiah 40:5).

"In that same year (1890) Bahá’u’lláh’s tent, the “Tabernacle of Glory,” was raised on Mt. Carmel, “the Hill of God and His Vineyard,” the home of Elijah, extolled by Isaiah as the “mountain of the Lord,” to which “all nations shall flow.” Four times He visited Haifa, His last visit being no less than three months long. In the course of one of these visits, when His tent was pitched in the vicinity of the Carmelite Monastery, He, the “Lord of the Vineyard,” revealed the Tablet of Carmel, remarkable for its allusions and prophecies. On another occasion He pointed out Himself to ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, as He stood on the slopes of that mountain, the site which was to serve as the permanent resting-place of the Báb, and on which a befitting mausoleum was later to be erected." (God Passes By, p. 194)

https://bahai-library.com/pdf/s/sears_thief_night.pdf

Above Haifa, Israel, stands Mt. Carmel, proclaiming the Glory of the Lord has come.

Good passage from William Sears, and I love that video. Being there was like being in paradise, thought those terraces and some of those buildings were not there in 1982. I couldn't walk all those terraces now, anyway! I also think of the sacrifice of the Bab, and the amazing fact that they managed to transport his body from Tabriz to Haifa!

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Some Jews are expecting that too. They were also expecting that also 2000 years ago.

Jesus too had to set things straight at Luke 19:11-15 because his disciples wondered if their expectation was near
Jesus let them know he would first have to go away on a long journey before returning
Remember the words of Genesis 1:28 because Earth would have to be populated or filled to accomplish God's original purpose
The passing of time would be needed for all of us to be born and think who we would like as Sovereign over us
Wrong expectations does Not make the Bible as wrong, just makes the expectations as wrong - Matt. 24:36; 1st Thess. 5:2-3

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Wrong expectations does Not make the Bible as wrong, just makes the expectations as wrong - Matt. 24:36; 1st Thess. 5:2-3

It is those expectations that become the veils.

By quoting scripture to confirm your expectations, that could very well be posting wrong expectations.

The Baha'i quote the passages as supporting evidence of fulfilled prophecy, they are not posting their expectations, they are posting given solutions to past expectations.

Regards Tony

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I'm a believer, also but I view this a little differently. I do believe in the rapture .....................................................................

Seems as if there are a lot of people who believe in a coming Rapture
I find Scripture speaks of Resurrection and Not any rapture
Remember Jesus was caught away in the clouds ' after ' he was resurrected
' Flesh....' (physical) can Not go to Heaven - 1st Cor. 15:50
Jesus separates the figurative sheep and goats who are alive on Earth - Matthew 25:31-34,37,40
We ask God for His Kingdom to come. We don't ask to be 'taken away' to the Kingdom, Nor to be 'taken up' to the Kingdom
Rather, for the Kingdom to come and God's Will be done right here on Earth
The 'sheep' are alive on Earth and can remain alive on Earth and be here to see calendar Day One of Jesus coming Millennial Reign over Earth with the opportunity to remain alive on Earth to be part of the humble meek to inherit the Earth - Matt. 5:5; Psalms 37:9-11; 22:26

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It is those expectations that become the veils.
By quoting scripture to confirm your expectations, that could very well be posting wrong expectations..................................

Yes, wrong expectations can become veils, but that does Not mean 'will become' veils
Since God has our best interests at heart we are forewarned so that we can be forearmed - 1st Thess. 5:2-3
When the powers in charge are saying, " Peace and Security....." <- those Rosy words can lead people to put on Rose-Colored glasses and see a Primrose Path but instead of peace those words will prove to be the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14
then, Jesus will take the action described at both Isaiah 11:3-4 & Rev. 19:14-15 to rid the Earth of wickedness

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yes they have. Lifespan has increased, mortality rates have plummeted. By any measure a baby born today is far more likely to live a longer and better life than one 6000 years ago.

Living longer than the people named in chapter 5 of Genesis _________
Longer than the man named at Genesis 5:27 __________

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Isaiah 11:3-4 & Rev. 19:14-15

Both these are fulfilled.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Universal House of Justice (post # 420) in Scripture it is Heavenly Jerusalem as per Revelation 21
Heavenly Jerusalem is the seat of government separate from existing governments on Earth
Jesus with co-rulers, resurrected heavenly kings and priests (Re. 5:9-10), will govern over Earth
People like King David will then be a Prince on Earth - Ezekiel 34:24; Isaiah 32:1; Psalm 45:16

The Baha'i quote the passages as supporting evidence of fulfilled prophecy, they are not posting their expectations, they are posting given solutions to past expectations.

Micah 4 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.​

2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.​

3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.​

​

In the prophecy it says "Zion" and "Jerusalem". For Jews and Christians I would imagine for that prophecy to be fulfilled, it would have to be Jerusalem and not Mt. Carmel in Haifa like the Baha'is say.

For the Baha'is, there is "pruning" being made out of "spears" and "plowshares" being made out of "swords". When was that fulfilled? Or... is it an expectation of the Baha'is?

Christians maybe are taking things too literal, but are the Baha'is taking things not literal enough?

 

[CG Didymus]

Both these are fulfilled.

Regards Tony

Rev 19:11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:​

​

king of kings and lord of lords.​

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”​

​

19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.​

​

Go ahead explain the Baha'i interpretation and when and how this was fulfilled?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Since God has our best interests at heart we are forewarned so that we can be forearmed - 1st Thess. 5:2-3
When the powers in charge are saying, " Peace and Security....." <- those Rosy words can lead people to put on Rose-Colored glasses and see a Primrose Path but instead of peace those words will prove to be the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14

I see this is a result of the rejection of Baha’u’llah, 1st Thess. 5:2-3 is events such as the League of Nations and the United Nations, which were not founded on the requirements set out by Baha'u'llah.

We are in that Tribulation and I would see that it is fast approaching a climax.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Rev 19:11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:​

​

king of kings and lord of lords.​

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”​

​

19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.​

​

Go ahead explain the Baha'i interpretation and when and how this was fulfilled?

There is no Baha'i Interpretation CG. There will be individual opinions.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Rev 19:11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:​

​

king of kings and lord of lords.​

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”​

​

19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.​

​

Go ahead explain the Baha'i interpretation and when and how this was fulfilled?

CG, This is a good example about what I offered about there not being always a lineal time line in prophecy.

I see verses 11 to 18 are about the Baha'i Revelation.

From verse 19 it is Islam. Notice the speaker of the Prophecy was saying he then saw another vision, it does not necessarily say it is a continuous narrative from the last section. In this case though, I see this is Islam arising against Baha'u'llah, I see it is also about the Brother of Bahá'u'lláh who rose against him.

Regards Tony

 

[Truthseeker]

It is those expectations that become the veils.

By quoting scripture to confirm your expectations, that could very well be posting wrong expectations.

The Baha'i quote the passages as supporting evidence of fulfilled prophecy, they are not posting their expectations, they are posting given solutions to past expectations.

Regards Tony

Oh, I thought maybe you had departed here, since basically you have no avatar. Like most of the time I can't access your profile, either. i don't know how people limit people to their profile, not that I want to learn that, because I don't want to limit my profile. I suppose if you have a pest following you it has a valid purpose.