Balthazzar
Christian Evolutionist
I'm not one of them. It's happening real time as we speak and has been for quite a while now.
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The Return of Christ
- Thread starter Jimmy
- Start date
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
Prophecies are not a good guide to determine if Jesus has returned since they can be interpreted a number of ways. The best way is "by his fruits" as Jesus says.
I will offer what I see in that passage, as there are no official Baha'i interpretations of these verses.
The Beast is Islam that continued to rule Iran in the time of Baha’u’llah. The Kings of the earth are mentioned and Baha'u'llah adresses them one and all, the army of the beast and the Kings are the wayward and ungodly who fight against the Revelation of Baha’u’llah. The rider of the horse is Baha’u’llah and his army are the Baha'is.
The captured Beast is Islam pursuing their own Interpretation of the Quran and the False Prophet could be the Anti Christ of the Baha'i Revelation, Baha’u’llah's half brother, or it could be Islam itself that became and acted as the Beast.
I would have to research and consider what the Lake of Sulfer may be about, but given the smell, it may be the decay of the Message of Islam and the burning is that of self interpretation.
The rest being killed by the Sword, is humanity being Judged by the New Messages that cuts the old from the new, but as to the birds, I have no thoughts provoked by this passage. It could be carrion that relish in some way the dead bodies, maybe self serving people that feed someway on the misery.
Regards Tony
I would offer the starting date of AD1844 or AH1260 as the starting year.
Regards Tony
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
If we were to look at the good and bad fruit of Christianity, would we think it was a true religion of God, or a false religion of people?
If we judge the largest sect of Christianity would we say their main doctrines and beliefs and practices were true or false? Original sin, the Trinity, in Satan and demons, hell and purgatory, confessing sins to a priest that has the person repeat prayers over and over, all the statues, believing in the bodily resurrection of Jesus, believing that Mary was Immaculate conceived, and on and on. Would Baha'is consider a religion that held these beliefs to be of God or to be a religion following the traditions of men?
Even other Christians condemned this sect for being wrong in a lot of their beliefs, practices and doctrines. So, can we really judge a religion by its "fruits" when there is always going to a lot of bad, rotten fruit along with some good?
Now if a Christian judged the Baha'i Faith? Going by their beliefs, the Baha'i Faith has several false beliefs. Jesus is not God. Jesus didn't physically rise from the dead. He is not the only way? And so on. For those Christians, the Baha'i Faith has the worst fruit of all, a leader that claims he is the return of Christ.
So, by prophecies and "by their fruits" people can make their religion true, and someone else's false. All by going by what they believe is true.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Well, thanks for giving your thoughts and interpretations. But for me nothing is fulfilled until peace is established. Maybe it's through the teachings of Baha'u'llah. Maybe it's through Jesus coming back. But, going by what has happened in the past with new religions,, things just keep going with some good and bad from the new religion.
But the ultimate promises never get fulfilled, so the believers redefine the promises and say, "some day" peace will come or, as the Christians say, "Someday Jesus will come." And they usually add that it will be soon. And considering how the world is going, it could be soon.
Lisa Sims
Not BORN AGAIN Yet, But I'm On My WAY!
This is the true prayer that Jesus taught his disciples:
The Prayer to the Father to Receive His Divine Love
"Our Father in heaven, we recognize:
That You Are–are all holy and loving and merciful, and that we are the children of Your care and not the subservient, sinful and depraved creatures that our false teachers would have us believe.
"That we are the greatest of Your creations and the most wonderful of all Your handiworks, and that we are the objects of Your great soul-love and tenderest care.
"That Your will is that we become at-one with You and partake of the great love which You have given to us through Your mercy and desire that we become, in truth, Your children; and not through the sacrifice and death of any one of Your creatures.
"That You will open up our souls to the inflowing of Your love, and that then will come Your Holy Spirit to bring into our souls, this, Your love in great abundance until our souls may be transformed into the very essence of Yourself; and that there may come to us faith–such faith as will cause us to realize that we are truly Your children and that we are one with You in very substance and not in image only.
"Give us such faith as will cause us to know that You are our Father and the giver of every good and perfect gift, and that only we, ourselves, can prevent Your love changing us from the mortal to the immortal.
"May we never cease to realize that Your love is waiting for each and all of us, and that when we come to You in faith and earnest aspiration, Your love will never be withheld from us.
"Keep us in the shadow of Your love every hour and moment of our lives, and help us to overcome all temptations of the flesh and the influences of the power of the evil ones, who so constantly surround us and endeavor to turn our thoughts away from You to the pleasures and allurements of this world.
"We thank You for Your love and for the possibility of receiving it, and believe that You are our Father–the loving Father who smiles upon us in our weakness, and is always ready to help us and take us to His arms of love.
"We pray this with all the earnestness and longing of our souls, and trusting in Your love give You all the glory and honor and love that our finite souls can give."
When prayed daily as part of extended silent meditation it brings the transformation, or re-birth, to Divinity and Immortality that Jesus taught and demonstrated in his own person.
Jesus, 12/2/1916, from Jesus' Second Coming Message Series, 1914 to present.
"Could you not watch with me one hour?"
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
Peace for me is a long way away. It's a process, and there is no definite year when peace arrives.
Mythological tales are just that... mythological tales.
Its well established that human beings have never ever lived past 110-115 max, no matter what fictions written in old or modern myths tell.
Nor do anybody fly on brooms etc
Peace to all,
To me in Logic, God Will always provide the Chosen sacrifice.
To me in common with all Christians and Muslims and Jews, and all mankind is the Spirit. The Spirit unites all by the power. And from the Faith of Abraham and Isaac, belief in the promise sworn to him by God by God's own name in eternal life of The Body to all of his descendants, God resurrects Life Eternal through His Son, Jesus. To me we know in logic that Isaac will never die, and Abraham knew it, through Faith, only the sacrificial Lamb, the male Ram caught spotless by the thorns of the Thickets will become the early beginning of the greatest truth ever told. To me this is the Logic of the Kingdom of the Divine Will that Louisa Piccarreta, "Little Daughter of The Divine Will" speaks of and to me applies logically through the Faith of Abraham.
To me, the unity can only be understood by the logic of the controlling power. "Fiat" is Latin for let it be in the power of the one in control. The logic is that the spirit unites and we become one in being together with The Father and The Son, from mortal and corrupt and we become transformed immortal and incorruptible and becoming again, glorified and transfigured by the Power of the Divine Will.
How does the Divine Spirit of Authority and Spirit and Life do this? In logic to me, The Will becomes from the eternal spirit, the eternal authority and eternal laws of spirit and life of the eternal universe, The Word, that is present before creation was ever created was even created. The Word is the pattern of creation that cannot fail. To me The Word is the intelligence that manifests the unfailing Body of God, as share from the cross as the Paraclete, who some call, I call, the person of "The Holy Spirit." Louisa's writings help make clear to me from faith to logic, He will not leave us orphans. He creates the soul with Body, and blows from the Spirit through the Body and for the Soul of The Being the chance for the created being to accept, to choose the universal acceptor, Fulfilled Eternal Love of the Body through the unfailing Will of The Creator, God, The Father. And in logic to me The Will is the Becoming into the Kingdom of The Divine from mortal and the corrupt flesh and spirit in the Soul of the Being through the Created Body. We become united with all mankind as one in being together with the Father and The Son, becoming the Image of The Creator as the Immortal, incorruptible and glorified and transfigured Divine Body of God as United.
To me, in logic, the Second coming of the Body of God is in the transfiguration of our own Body of Christ becoming His image by the real intelligence the "RI" of the eternal universe without a chance of failure, choice removed, cleansed and purged and sanctified in The Divine Will Power of God, through the "Holy Spirit Person," delivered by Christ in fulfilled Faith and Morality, for all to share as united becoming one in being.
The logic to me is, He has already returned and we are just awaiting transfiguration in the final glorification from immortal and incorruptible Bodies confirmed sanctified from the "Holy Spirit" through flesh for the soul of all mankind becoming again glorified and transfigured into the Body of God, delivered by the Ark of The New Covenant.
Peace always,
Stephen Andrew
To me in Logic, God Will always provide the Chosen sacrifice.
To me in common with all Christians and Muslims and Jews, and all mankind is the Spirit. The Spirit unites all by the power. And from the Faith of Abraham and Isaac, belief in the promise sworn to him by God by God's own name in eternal life of The Body to all of his descendants, God resurrects Life Eternal through His Son, Jesus. To me we know in logic that Isaac will never die, and Abraham knew it, through Faith, only the sacrificial Lamb, the male Ram caught spotless by the thorns of the Thickets will become the early beginning of the greatest truth ever told. To me this is the Logic of the Kingdom of the Divine Will that Louisa Piccarreta, "Little Daughter of The Divine Will" speaks of and to me applies logically through the Faith of Abraham.
To me, the unity can only be understood by the logic of the controlling power. "Fiat" is Latin for let it be in the power of the one in control. The logic is that the spirit unites and we become one in being together with The Father and The Son, from mortal and corrupt and we become transformed immortal and incorruptible and becoming again, glorified and transfigured by the Power of the Divine Will.
How does the Divine Spirit of Authority and Spirit and Life do this? In logic to me, The Will becomes from the eternal spirit, the eternal authority and eternal laws of spirit and life of the eternal universe, The Word, that is present before creation was ever created was even created. The Word is the pattern of creation that cannot fail. To me The Word is the intelligence that manifests the unfailing Body of God, as share from the cross as the Paraclete, who some call, I call, the person of "The Holy Spirit." Louisa's writings help make clear to me from faith to logic, He will not leave us orphans. He creates the soul with Body, and blows from the Spirit through the Body and for the Soul of The Being the chance for the created being to accept, to choose the universal acceptor, Fulfilled Eternal Love of the Body through the unfailing Will of The Creator, God, The Father. And in logic to me The Will is the Becoming into the Kingdom of The Divine from mortal and the corrupt flesh and spirit in the Soul of the Being through the Created Body. We become united with all mankind as one in being together with the Father and The Son, becoming the Image of The Creator as the Immortal, incorruptible and glorified and transfigured Divine Body of God as United.
To me, in logic, the Second coming of the Body of God is in the transfiguration of our own Body of Christ becoming His image by the real intelligence the "RI" of the eternal universe without a chance of failure, choice removed, cleansed and purged and sanctified in The Divine Will Power of God, through the "Holy Spirit Person," delivered by Christ in fulfilled Faith and Morality, for all to share as united becoming one in being.
The logic to me is, He has already returned and we are just awaiting transfiguration in the final glorification from immortal and incorruptible Bodies confirmed sanctified from the "Holy Spirit" through flesh for the soul of all mankind becoming again glorified and transfigured into the Body of God, delivered by the Ark of The New Covenant.
Peace always,
Stephen Andrew
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I was believe in Jesus(pbuh) will return as most of Muslims, after I heard to Adnan Ibrahim explain that Jesus(pbuh) won't return,and the fake Messaih is just fiction,I change my mind.
Why He should return? return to who ?
Peace to all,
The logic is to me, the second coming is the Transfiguration. Heaven is to big to return to earth and Earth has already been Baptized and underwater at least 40 feet everywhere. It will be earth becoming new again through transformation and transfiguration becoming His image with all mankind and with the angels and saints and Old Covenant saved from the Bosom of Abraham and all the martyrs, all in the New Immortal and Incorruptible and Sanctified, Fulfilled Body of God in one being, together with the Father and The Son, as becoming glorified and transfigured into the new Heaven and Earth, Heaven.
Peace always,
Stephen Andrew
The logic is to me, the second coming is the Transfiguration. Heaven is to big to return to earth and Earth has already been Baptized and underwater at least 40 feet everywhere. It will be earth becoming new again through transformation and transfiguration becoming His image with all mankind and with the angels and saints and Old Covenant saved from the Bosom of Abraham and all the martyrs, all in the New Immortal and Incorruptible and Sanctified, Fulfilled Body of God in one being, together with the Father and The Son, as becoming glorified and transfigured into the new Heaven and Earth, Heaven.
Peace always,
Stephen Andrew
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Jimmy
Veteran Member
Return with a new heaven and Earth for all of mankind.
That's judgment day according to Islam view.
We all back to live to be judged for our deeds in this life.
placed [open], and you will see the criminals fearful of that within it, and they will say, "Oh, woe to us! What is this book that leaves nothing small or great except that it has enumerated it?" And they will find what they did present [before them]. And your Lord does injustice to no one.
18:49 Qur'an.
Jimmy
Veteran Member
Judgement day can’t happen without Jesus though imo
One can meditate as to why The Bab and Baha'u'llah appeared in the heart of Islam.
Malachi 3:1“I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the Lord Almighty.
The Bab was the Gate that appeared in Tehran, the Messenger that orepared the way for Baha'u'llah and Baha'u'llah was the Messenger of the Covernant.
To Islam they were the Mahdi and Christ
To Christians they were Elijah and The return of Christ.
We are now in Judgement against those given Messages, that were to inform us God is One, humanity is One, all the Religions are One and this is the Promised 'Day of God', where swords will be changed into plowshares and we will learn war no more.
Regards Tony
That supplies the context of my reply.
Regards Tony
New heaven and new earth can be seen as the New Message (Word) and the new Laws.
Regards Tony
Since it's we believed and that we created by God, sure there will be judgment day.
I hope we will escape His punishment and gain His paradise, by His mercy not just our deeda
We are in the midst of the punishment that humanity has brought upon its own selves, we are fast approaching a retributive calamity, that is foretold and forewarned, in the Bible, in the Quran and the Baha'i Writings.
It is our deeds that set us right in our judgement, while God's Mercy and justice and judgement, always encompasses all people.
Peace and love be with you always. Regards Tony