The Return of Christ

[TransmutingSoul]

“The pen of justice”,who was holding the pen?,the human angle comes to mind.

God holds the pens, the Pen can be seen as the Messengers in each age that Give us the Word from God.

This is quite an interesting analytical exploration of the symbolic foundations of the Word of God. When you look it up, it is amazing how much explanations can be found about the Pen and its relationship to revelation from God.

The Pen in this case, is the Messengers that are likened to the "Feather"or "Reed", the instrument that the ink flows from, the instrument that imparts the word of God to us.

In the case of Baha’u’llah he replaced the Sword with the Pen. This is an interesting quote about the Pen Bahaullah used (Also all his Revelations were recorded by with either His or many of His Amanuensis pens.

"Verily, We shall render Thee victorious by Thyself and by Thy Pen".

It is hard to do justice to such topics, in but a few glimpses.

Regards Tony

 

[England my lionheart]

I could ask where are we, that we presume that we are alive, made of flesh that will perish.

Agreed,we will.

Our Consciousness does not die, it takes on its true form when the flesh dies.

Except we don’t know that’s true because it’s unverified.

This is a great bounty given of God for all of the NDE experiences. They one and all know that death of the flesh is just a transition.

Dreams also assist in this realisation.

Regards Tony

This is actually interesting,NDEs could be a chemical reaction to give us a peaceful checkout of life,no facts on that though to date.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Except we don’t know that’s true because it’s unverified.

I personally know it's true, as my experiences, my study, my rational mind connect to a Spirit that is unseen just as I breathe in this life with an unseen mix of air, I also live with an unseen mix of Spirit.

Many others are also alive with these experiences.

We are composed of the Spirit of the vegitable, the power of growth, of the spirit of the animal, the power of the senses, of the human spirit, the power of the rational mind,

We can add to that evolution of spirit by embracing the spirit of faith, the power of spiritual birth, of the Holy Spirit, which attaches us to the power of eternal life, the power of creation in an aware consciousness.

Without taking the step of faith, eternity is like a solid rock, existence, but not conscious.

Regards Tony

 

[England my lionheart]

God holds the pens, the Pen can be seen as the Messengers in each age that Give us the Word from God.

This is interesting

This is quite an interesting analytical exploration of the symbolic foundations of the Word of God. When you look it up, it is amazing how much explanations can be found about the Pen and its relationship to revelation from God.

There’s always a human holding a pen.

The Pen in this case, is the Messengers that are likened to the "Feather"or "Reed", the instrument that the ink flows from, the instrument that imparts the word of God to us.

“beware of false prophets”,who said that?

In the case of Baha’u’llah he replaced the Sword with the Pen. This is an interesting quote about the Pen Bahaullah used (Also all his Revelations were recorded by with either His or many of His Amanuensis pens.

"Verily, We shall render Thee victorious by Thyself and by Thy Pen".

View attachment 95912

It is hard to do justice to such topics, in but a few glimpses.

Regards Tony

The pen is a tool afaik for humans.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Agreed,we will.

Except we don’t know that’s true because it’s unverified.

This is actually interesting,NDEs could be a chemical reaction to give us a peaceful checkout of life,no facts on that though to date.

The facts are born only in Faith. Jesus died on the Cross, the Bab faced the Firing Squad, Baha'u'llah allowed persecution and banishment as they one an all submitted to the Will of God, their example is the proof of what they offered.

Unless we decide they were not trustworthy or truthful people in their lives and in what they offered. If that is the case, no proof will ever be enough.

This is again, another topic that needs great exploration before one can dismiss it as being a product of wishful thinking.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

“beware of false prophets”,who said that?

The same person that informed us that a true prophet can be known by their fruit, by their prophecies and that their testimony of Jesus will be that "He is the Christ".

The pen is a tool afaik for humans

There’s always a human holding a pen.

Everything in creation is but a reflection of the divine kingdoms of God. The Pen as such, can have infinite meanings.

We have to go beyond its material appearance in to the essence of what it is to be a Pen, as there are also many types of pens.

Regards Tony

 

[England my lionheart]

The same person that informed us that a true prophet can be known by their fruit, by their prophecies and that their testimony of Jesus will be that "He is the Christ".


Everything in creation is but a reflection of the divine kingdoms of God. The Pen as such, can have infinite meanings.

We have to go beyond its material appearance in to the essence of what it is to be a Pen, as there are also many types of pens.

Regards Tony

And many types of people holding it.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There’s always a human holding a pen

“beware of false prophets”,who said that?

An interesting contemplation with these comments is that it was very fortunate man had pens and then did choose to record what Jesus Christ had offered humanity.

Otherwise what was said would be much more contentious.

Now consider people even dispute the Qurans accuracy, even though it was recorded much earlier.

Now with the Baha'i Writings that dispute is not valid, Baha'u'llah, the Most Exalted Pen of God recorded the revelation with His own pens, at a speed beyond comprehension. His Amanuensis could not keep up and the ink on the pages were not dry before starting on the next.

Anther great topic "Revelation Writing", another astonishing fact that can be pursued.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And many types of people holding it.

The key here is that only God's chosen are God's Pens.

The rest of us can only be influenced by those Pens.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Tribulation is just before return of Christ:

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken"


But "Punishment" which is the result of ignoring Baha'u'llah is, yet a greater punishment. It is where Jesus said, it will be like Days of Noah, when people did not listen to Noah, then, the flood came and took them all.

Well, we usually only focus on what the Bible and the NT says. But even with them, I think a good case can be made that the Messiah/Christ fixes things. They take control and rule. They don't get rejected, imprisoned, and die and a worse tribulation happens.

But what do you have from the other religions? Like what does the Quran say about when the Mahdi and Jesus comes? What do the Hindu Scriptures say when the Kalki Avatar comes? And in Buddhism, when the Maitreya Buddha comes? Do they all have a "twin" manifestation come? With the first one being killed and the second one, the main one, being imprisoned and dying? And things get worse? After they come and go that there will be two World Wars?

Can you back up what has actually happened with prophecy from any of the Scriptures of the major religions?

Now, let's go back and look at the quote you used. Here's some more context...

Matthew 24:36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.​

​

42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.​

​

To me, that sounds like before he comes people will be doing the things they have always done... then the Son of Man comes.

You make it sound like the Christ has already come, people didn't listen to him, and then the flood, or tribulations, come.

But there's other problems that Baha'is have to explain... It says the "Son of Man" comes? How do Baha'is make this Baha'u'llah? Since Baha'is usually say that Baha'u'llah came in the station of the "Father" and his title means "The Glory of God". And of course Christians say that the Son of Man refers to Jesus.

But also, from these verses how do Baha'is get two manifestations coming, The Bab and Baha'u'llah?

Now prior to verse 36 Matthew says...

4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains...​

21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.​

​

To me this is saying that if you hear of wars and all these other things happening... it is not yet the end, or the coming of Christ.

So, how is this interpreted to where the Christ, Baha'u'llah, comes and there is still wars and rumors of wars and the rest of those things?

Thanks.

 

[England my lionheart]

An interesting contemplation with these comments is that it was very fortunate man had pens and then did choose to record what Jesus Christ had offered humanity.

Pens are a human invention afaik,fingers in caves but all human.

Otherwise what was said would be much more contentious.

Now consider people even dispute the Qurans accuracy, even though it was recorded much earlier.

Accurate,was it,is it relevant to today or only best understood by medaeval historians?.

Now with the Baha'i Writings that dispute is not valid, Baha'u'llah, the Most Exalted Pen of God recorded the revelation with His own pens, at a speed beyond comprehension. His Amanuensis could not keep up and the ink on the pages were not dry before starting on the next.

My daughter can text faster than anyone,does she qualify as a prophet or will she not qualify because she’s a woman,(slipping in the sexist slant of Abrahmic religion),imo your bar is set too low.

Anther great topic "Revelation Writing", another astonishing fact that can be pursued.
View attachment 95913
Regards Tony

A true universal language that nobody understands.

 

[CG Didymus]

An interesting contemplation with these comments is that it was very fortunate man had pens and then did choose to record what Jesus Christ had offered humanity.

Lots of people had "pens" and wrote about Jesus. Then the Church leaders decided which things that had gotten written would be made into the Christians Scriptures. And even Baha'i leaders question just how trustworthy those Scriptures were.

“The Bible is not wholly authentic, and in this respect not to be compared with the Qur’án, and should be wholly subordinated to the authentic sayings of Bahá’u’lláh.”​

​

(Letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to the National Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá’ís of the United States and Canada, 28 July 1936, published in Bahá’í News, no. 103 (Oct. 1936), p. 1).​

And my usual critique of the Baha'i beliefs about the Bible and the NT... The Bible has Isaac being taken by Abraham to be sacrificed. The Baha'is have Ishmael. The gospel writers have Jesus coming back to life. The Baha'is have him his body dying and only his spirit "rose".

Baha'is don't trust what is written in either the Bible or the NT. And actually I kind of agree with them, especially when it comes to the NT. Jesus, "The Pen", didn't write the stuff. His followers wrote it. And they contradict each other at times. I don't think one gospel has the same people going to the tomb of Jesus after he had been killed.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Baha'is don't trust what is written in either the Bible or the NT. And actually I kind of agree with them,

I would suggest the majority of Baha'is will trust that the Bible is sure spiritual guidance.

That the Bible is, "THIS book is the Holy Book of God, of celestial Inspiration. It is the Bible of Salvation, the Noble Gospel. It is the mystery of the Kingdom and its light. It is the Divine Bounty, the sign of the guidance of God." Abdu'l-Bahá 'Abbás.

Any other advice allows us not to get stuck on arguing over specific recorded words and the intended meanings within the Bible.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

I would suggest the majority of Baha'is will trust that the Bible is sure spiritual guidance.

That the Bible is, "THIS book is the Holy Book of God, of celestial Inspiration. It is the Bible of Salvation, the Noble Gospel. It is the mystery of the Kingdom and its light. It is the Divine Bounty, the sign of the guidance of God." Abdu'l-Bahá 'Abbás.

Any other advice allows us not to get stuck on arguing over specific recorded words and the intended meanings within the Bible.

Regards Tony

You can say it is a "sure" guide and call it the "Noble Gospel" all you want, but Jesus, The Pen, didn't write it. The NT supports a belief in the literal creation and flood, a belief in Satan, demons and hell, and, that not only Jesus came back to life, but so did Lazarus and a few other people... Like all those that the NT says came out of their graves and walked around Jerusalem. All things that the Baha'i Faith does not believe. At best, Baha'is believe them in a symbolic way.

Even Christians argue over the intended meanings. It's not clear. Which makes it difficult to be a "sure" spiritual guide.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You can say it is a "sure" guide and call it the "Noble Gospel" all you want, but Jesus, The Pen, didn't write it. The NT supports a belief in the literal creation and flood, a belief in Satan, demons and hell, and, that not only Jesus came back to life, but so did Lazarus and a few other people... Like all those that the NT says came out of their graves and walked around Jerusalem. All things that the Baha'i Faith does not believe. At best, Baha'is believe them in a symbolic way.

Even Christians argue over the intended meanings. It's not clear. Which makes it difficult to be a "sure" spiritual guide.

Luckily CG, Baha'u'llah and subsequently Abdul'baha and Shoghi Effendi gave us much guidance as to how to use the Bible as sure spiritual guidance.

We can also be assured that the Bible, no matter who recorded the written Words, that this is the position of Authority given for all the Baha'i.

"As to the position of Christianity, let it be stated without any hesitation or equivocation that its divine origin is unconditionally acknowledged, that the Sonship and Divinity of Jesus Christ are fearlessly asserted, that the divine inspiration of the Gospel is fully recognized… The Founder of the Christian Faith is designated by Baha’u’llah as the “Spirit of God,” is proclaimed as the One Who “appeared out of the breath of the Holy Ghost,” and is even extolled as the “Essence of the Spirit.” His mother is described as “that veiled and immortal, that most beauteous, countenance,” and the station of her Son eulogized as a “station which hath been exalted above the imaginings of all that dwell on earth”…" Shoghi Effendi, The Promised Day is Come, p.109-110

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Luckily CG, Baha'u'llah and subsequently Abdul'baha and Shoghi Effendi gave us much guidance as to how to use the Bible as sure spiritual guidance.

We can also be assured that the Bible, no matter who recorded the written Words, that this is the position of Authority given for all the Baha'i.

"As to the position of Christianity, let it be stated without any hesitation or equivocation that its divine origin is unconditionally acknowledged, that the Sonship and Divinity of Jesus Christ are fearlessly asserted, that the divine inspiration of the Gospel is fully recognized… The Founder of the Christian Faith is designated by Baha’u’llah as the “Spirit of God,” is proclaimed as the One Who “appeared out of the breath of the Holy Ghost,” and is even extolled as the “Essence of the Spirit.” His mother is described as “that veiled and immortal, that most beauteous, countenance,” and the station of her Son eulogized as a “station which hath been exalted above the imaginings of all that dwell on earth”…" Shoghi Effendi, The Promised Day is Come, p.109-110

Regards Tony

@CG Didymus Now I will add that it serves no useful purpose for any Baha'i to take what was said about the content of the Bible in any way to support a negative view about the Bible contents and of Christianity.

Comments by Shoghi Effendi, that were made to individual Baha'i in response to questions they asked, such as not wholly authentic, are soundly supported by academic and scientific papers and should not be taken out of context to the fact that the Bible does not need to be wholly authentic, for us to fully benefit from the divine inspiration that enabled it and its contents being a sure spiritual guide.

My personal stance is purely on Bible content interpretation and not content inaccuracy.

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

Well, we usually only focus on what the Bible and the NT says. But even with them, I think a good case can be made that the Messiah/Christ fixes things. They take control and rule. They don't get rejected, imprisoned, and die and a worse tribulation happens.

But what do you have from the other religions? Like what does the Quran say about when the Mahdi and Jesus comes? What do the Hindu Scriptures say when the Kalki Avatar comes? And in Buddhism, when the Maitreya Buddha comes? Do they all have a "twin" manifestation come? With the first one being killed and the second one, the main one, being imprisoned and dying? And things get worse? After they come and go that there will be two World Wars?

Can you back up what has actually happened with prophecy from any of the Scriptures of the major religions?

Now, let's go back and look at the quote you used. Here's some more context...

Matthew 24:36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.​

​

42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.​

​

To me, that sounds like before he comes people will be doing the things they have always done... then the Son of Man comes.

You make it sound like the Christ has already come, people didn't listen to him, and then the flood, or tribulations, come.

But there's other problems that Baha'is have to explain... It says the "Son of Man" comes? How do Baha'is make this Baha'u'llah? Since Baha'is usually say that Baha'u'llah came in the station of the "Father" and his title means "The Glory of God". And of course Christians say that the Son of Man refers to Jesus.

But also, from these verses how do Baha'is get two manifestations coming, The Bab and Baha'u'llah?

Now prior to verse 36 Matthew says...

4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains...​

21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.​

​

To me this is saying that if you hear of wars and all these other things happening... it is not yet the end, or the coming of Christ.

So, how is this interpreted to where the Christ, Baha'u'llah, comes and there is still wars and rumors of wars and the rest of those things?

Thanks.

Matthew 16:27

For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

This verse clearly states that Christ will return as the Father not as the Son.

Matthew 24:23

Then if any man shall say unto you, ‘Lo, here is Christ,’ or ‘there,’ believe it not.

This verse states that He won’t return with the name Christ. It more refers to all the 40,000 Christian sects saying ‘here is Christ’ and that not to believe in them.

Revelation 3:12

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

So a new name and a new religion with new teachings, a new song.

 

[CG Didymus]

@CG Didymus Now I will add that it serves no useful purpose for any Baha'i to take what was said about the content of the Bible in any way to support a negative view about the Bible contents and of Christianity.

Comments by Shoghi Effendi, that were made to individual Baha'i in response to questions they asked, such as not wholly authentic, are soundly supported by academic and scientific papers and should not be taken out of context to the fact that the Bible does not need to be wholly authentic, for us to fully benefit from the divine inspiration that enabled it and its contents being a sure spiritual guide.

My personal stance is purely on Bible content interpretation and not content inaccuracy.

Regards Tony

It is very misleading to say it is a "sure" guide. Most Christians don't even take it that way, although, like you, will say they believe it and follow it. But they don't. And for good reason... somethings just don't work and could be harmful and even deadly if obeyed.

Matthew 5:40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.​

​

Who does any of that? Maybe a few naive Christians, but after a while, they learn that people will just keep taking advantage of them.

Mark 16:15 He (Jesus) said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”​

​

Lots of problems with these verses. For one, they're not in the oldest manuscripts. So, were they added in later? And by whom?

And about these "signs" that will accompany the believers... They will drive out demons? Baha'is don't believe in demons, and if that's true, then this is not a "sure" guide to anything real.

Then picking up snakes and drinking poison? Some Christians do take these verses as a "sure" guide and take them literally... and several of them have died because they picked up rattlesnakes and danced around with them.

Then laying hands on the sick? Some Christians have put their trust in faith-healers. They stopped taking the medicine that the doctors recommended and ended up dead.

So, even for Christians, there are some things that can't be taken literally. And Baha'is believe that Christians have come up with several false beliefs and doctrines by taking the Bible and the NT too literally. So, what again... makes it a "sure" guide for Christians or Baha'is?

Especially knowing that the Baha'is interpret many of the things in the Bible and the NT symbolically. Now that, for a Baha'i is the "sure" guide... Taking the Baha'i "symbolic" interpretation of the Bible and the NT.

 

[CG Didymus]

Matthew 16:27

For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

This verse clearly states that Christ will return as the Father not as the Son.

It says he will come in the "glory of his Father". Not as the "Father".

But... The Glory of God or Baha'u'llah is a title. Why was that title picked? What significance did it have in Shia Islam? Obviously, it's a great title to fit into the Bible and the NT.

But other people have taken "titles". Like there's a person that calls himself the "Maitreya". In fact, Baha'is claim their prophet, "The Glory of God" is the Maitreya. One of them is lying.

Oh, and another title... the "Christ". Or the Anointed One. Baha'is claim that Baha'u'llah is the Anointed One or the Christ don't they?

And some more titles... Who's this "Son of Man"? You can't say it is Jesus, because the verse you quoted would then say that Jesus will come in the Glory of his Father. And then throughout the Book of Revelation is the "Lamb" or the "Lamb that was slain". For Christians, a clear reference to Jesus. For Baha'is? Some have said it refers to the Bab? Is that official? Or just a guess?

Matthew 24:23

Then if any man shall say unto you, ‘Lo, here is Christ,’ or ‘there,’ believe it not.

This verse states that He won’t return with the name Christ. It more refers to all the 40,000 Christian sects saying ‘here is Christ’ and that not to believe in them.

Again, "Christ" is the same as saying the "Lord's Anointed One" or the "Messiah" But later in that same chapter it says...

27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.​

​

Implying that when he arrives, it will be obvious and all will see. But another problem for Baha'is... It doesn't say the "Glory of God" will come. It says the Son of Man. Can you make the "Son of Man" to mean Baha'u'llah? Seems like it would be kind of hard do. Baha'is would have to make Baha'u'llah both the Glory of God and the Son of Man and the Father and the Son at the same time.

30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.​

​

So, here's more verses that say it is the "Son of Man" that is coming. Anyway, I'm sure there is a "symbolic" interpretation that Baha'is can come up with to make the Son of Man Baha'u'llah and the Father... So, if you got 'em, let's hear "em.

Revelation 3:12

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

So a new name and a new religion with new teachings, a new song.

Those are very good verses for Baha'is. But there are still all those verses that talk about the "Lamb". And making the Lamb the Bab is kind of a stretch. The Lamb fits Jesus very well.

But... one more problem... For Baha'is two Manifestations came before Baha'u'llah... Muhammad and then the Bab. For me, the Baha'is interpretations of verses in Revelation, that they say refer to Muhammad and the Bab, are very weak. The "Two Witnesses" being Muhammad and Ali. Then the "Three Woes" being Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Also very weak is the Baha'i attempt to make six different events that begin and end at different times all to have started at the same time 622AD, and ended at the same time 1844. Then along the way Baha'is make the Islamic dynasty of the Umayyads the beast.

Then Revelation ends like this...

Rev 22:16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you[a] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”​

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17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.​

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18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.​

​

20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.”​

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Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.​

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21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen.​

​

Nothing about the Son of Man, or the Lamb or the Glory of God or a new name... It's all about Jesus. It says, "I Jesus". I am the Root and Offspring of David. "Yes, I am coming soon." And who is this "I" In verse sixteen it says it was Jesus. And the writer seems to think it was Jesus when he says "Come, Lord Jesus."

So, interpret away. Show me the Baha'is interpretation to these other verses that seem to point to Jesus.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Matthew 5:40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.Who does any of that? Maybe a few naive Christians, but after a while, they learn that people will just keep taking advantage of them.

Thus is teaching a level of Detachment that is the realm of the Messengers, it is teaching us how to be a true servant. It is also the life example of Abdul'baha.

You must weigh that advice with those of Justice.

If you read the life of Abdul'baha, you will see that Biblical verse being 100% lived, so it is possible. (I can offer stories of each aspect of that Biblical quote, corresponding to events in the life of Abdul'baha)

To those that try to take advantage of you, Abdul'baha also showed us what to do, he went and demanded justice and did not leave until justice was given. Taking that stance taught a thief a lesson in justice.

You call them them naive Christians, I call them saints and can only desire to find that same level of submission, I would applaud them, one and all, the saints form from all faiths, they found true faith.

Faith is not a thing that one just wears, one must be willing to give it all.

Regards Tony