The Return of Christ

[URAVIP2ME]

The Advocate, the Comforter, and now the Prince of this world..................................................................................................
But one thing I don't trust is when people pick and choose a few verses here and there and tell me exactly what those verses mean..................

God's spirit as we can read at Psalm 104:30 is Not the Prince of this world because: Satan is - 2nd Cor. 4:4 ; Luke 4:6
Sounds as if you don't trust Jesus because Jesus picked and chose a few verses here and there...... Luke chapter 4
Jesus often prefaced his statements with the words, " It is written....." meaning already written down in the OT
Jesus used logical reasoning on the OT as the basis for his teachings
Since the Bible is Not in ABC order then one needs to go by subject or topic arrangement on one subject or topic at a time
In other words, the Bible is chock full of corresponding or parallel cross-reference verses and passages
True, one needs an open mind and to search or research the verses or passages
However, some people's mind are so wide open that one might think their brains fell out

 

[muhammad_isa]

The UN 'will prove to be' the 8th King of Rev. 17:11..

You are living in a dream world.
The UN consists of many nations of various religious and political backgrounds.

The Right to Veto It was agreed by the drafters that if any one of the five permanent members cast a negative vote in the 15-member Security Council, the resolution or decision would not be approved.

..and the resolution not to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel (and keep it Tel Aviv) was
passed by 14 out of 15 - Trump vetoed it .. and we all have to bear the consequences.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I like how you say about the ' elixir is the timeless morals and principles ' but I find morals and principles can differ in different faiths
Jesus stressed the 'spirit of the Law' (principle behind the Law) which 'spirit ' shines through in Jesus' New Commandment at John 13:34-35
Not only self-sacrificing love for neighbor but also self-sacrificing love for God
Christians are to 'walk by faith and Not by sight' or sighted religious objects in worship - 2nd Cor. 5:7
Both fornication (porneia) and adultery are forbidden because that would Not be moral - Matt. 19:9

The timeless morals and virtues are found written in all of God's Faiths. If we concentrate on these, unity in our diversity can be found.

Some laws and values do change with the times, God changes these as required. Example: We do not stone adulteries in this age, there are penalties and fines in God's Laws.

Humanity breaking these laws is the cause of the decline of humanity.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

True, Christ is Anointed - Acts 4:26-27; Acts 10:38 - because his God anointed Jesus - Psalm 45:7
This will hold true also in the near future as we can find at Psalm 2:1-2. - Isaiah 61:1
In Scripture God's spirit (Psalm 104:30) is not anointed by God but what God uses
God used His holy spirit to anoint Jesus as The Christ when Jesus was baptised

From a Baha'i perspective, God is the Most Great Spirit, unknowable l, unapproachable, I see the Bible supports this. John 6:46

The Holy Spirt is created of God and it is this Holy Spirit which is Christ. It is the Spirit we can be born into.

Christ is the Image we are born in, we are not born in the image of God, the Messengers are birnin that Image. They are all we can know of God.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Since the Bible is Not in ABC order then one needs to go by subject or topic arrangement on one subject or topic at a time
In other words, the Bible is chock full of corresponding or parallel cross-reference verses and passages
True, one needs an open mind and to search or research the verses or passages
However, some people's mind are so wide open that one might think their brains fell out

@CG Didymus This is excellent advice.

Regards Tony

 

[jimb]

The Advocate, the Comforter, and now the Prince of this world... sure make them all Baha'u'llah. But I think Satan is a good fit... that is... for Christians. Satan was cast down to Earth. Christians have him as the Prince of Tyre, and the prince of the power of the air.

But who knows? We have four gospels that got canonized by the leaders of the Church. Do you really trust their judgement? Considering they believed in the physical resurrection, and later they made Jesus God?

But one thing I don't trust is when people pick and choose a few verses here and there and tell me exactly what those verses mean. But Baha'is aren't the only ones. I don't like how Christians take that one verse in Isaiah and make that one verse about Jesus being born of a virgin, but they don't use any of the other verses that tell us about that boy. And, in the story, the boy ends up being a sign for King Ahaz. Was that boy also born of a virgin? Or was Jesus a sign for King Ahaz?

Just way too easy to make verses mean anything you want them to. And too easy to ignore the context when it doesn't support the desired interpretation.

I wish that the Bible was not divided into chapters and verses, as they are not part of the source manuscripts.

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The chapter divisions commonly used today were developed by Stephen Langton, an Archbishop of Canterbury. Langton put the modern chapter divisions into place in around A.D. 1227. The Wycliffe English Bible of 1382 was the first Bible to use this chapter pattern. Since the Wycliffe Bible, nearly all Bible translations have followed Langton’s chapter divisions.

The Hebrew Old Testament was divided into verses by a Jewish rabbi by the name of Nathan in A.D. 1448. Robert Estienne, who was also known as Stephanus, was the first to divide the New Testament into standard numbered verses, in 1555. Stephanus essentially used Nathan’s verse divisions for the Old Testament. Since that time, beginning with the Geneva Bible, the chapter and verse divisions employed by Stephanus have been accepted into nearly all the Bible versions.

source:gotquestions.org

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Unfortunately, the verse (and chapter) divisions cause people to take things out of context to try to prove doctrine. That often leads to trouble.

Fortunately, many modern Bibles divide the text into paragraphs and chapters, which makes the message far clearer.

 

[wellwisher]

This question is for non-believers of the Christian faith. All Christians believe that Christ will return. When you hear them say this what do you think it really means?

This the quote in Relations 19, often associated with the second coming.

Revelations 19-11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

Nobody knows his name, suggests this is not Jesus, since we know his name. I tend to believe this is the sensible slave or the Servant of Jesus. Jesus remains clean in Heaven, while his faithful and sensible Servant, fights in righteousness for him. The god of love does not fight. The Son of God is way up there in the hierarchy.

Mathew 24-45 Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of his household, to give the others their food at the proper time? 46Blessed is that servant whosemaster finds him doing so when he returns. 47Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.…

Revelations 19 And (faithful and true) hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

Satan had the title of Lord of the Earth or Lords of Lords, until he was thrown from heaven. The sensible slave did a good job and the Master, Jesus, put him in charge of all his possession; he is chosen as new Lord of Lord and King of Kings in charge of Jesus' possession on earth, so Jesus can live among his people after all settles.

It never made sense to have Jesus teach love and then become warring. John added; " he had a name written which no man knew but himself." John would have recognized Jesus in his vision, but this was a stranger maybe not of his era.

The White Horseman of the Apocalypse also has a white horse and a crown of gold, like the Servant above but the latter who has more of each; many crowns and legions of white horsemen. They are similar but of different ranks. The former is an earlier servant.

Then I saw when the Lamb broke one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying as with a voice of thunder, "Come!" I looked, and behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.

This lessor white horseman has a bow, while the more dominate white horseman has a sharp sword and a rod of iron. This appears to be the same person or the Servant; starting out and then advancing, with different roles, advancing he plays in the drama.

Although not obvious the Servant appears to also have been the Red Horseman, who had a sharp two edge sword. The first expression of he servant gathers the Children of the Promise to Israel; lost tribes. The second expression as the red horseman he become a boot camp Sargent, breaking the children down and building them up. After his testimony is finished, he offers himself an offering for guilt. He is killed by Satan, but resurrected and is caught up to heaven. There is a pause, until the transgression runs it course;

Then Servant is groomed and becomes the 3rd expression ; the major white horseman in charge of all the possessions, ready to kick butt. The clear the way for Jesus to return; lamb.

 

[CG Didymus]

Since Pentecost the 'Israel of God' is the Christian congregation no matter where located on Earth
Not fleshly national Jerusalem but now it's 'heavenly Jerusalem' (Rev. 21:2)
Jerusalem 'above' since Pentecost is the seat of government for Christians - Galatians 4:26

Often in Scripture because 'mountains' tower over people then a mountain can stand for government over people
The old religious ' house of the LORD ' - Matthew 23:38 - Jesus said was abandoned

Okay, but then what do you say to the Baha'is who do the very same thing to Christians? They say the Christian "dispensation" ended in 622AD with the coming of God's new messenger, Muhammad. And Islam's message has been updated by the message given from God by Baha'u'llah.

 

[CG Didymus]

There is no reply that I need to give to that response CG, it is just chocker full of your doubts.

Or... a "chocker" full of the reality of what happens when people become part of an organized religion. They say they "believe". They can go to meetings and act all holy. But what do they do to apply the principles and moral standards in their everyday life? You Baha'is have your exemplar. How well are you doing at following his example? How many Baha'is are actually diligently trying to follow his example?

But there's more to the Baha'is "elixir" than morals codes. I've questioned, yes, and doubted, that the Baha'i peace plan will work. Right from the start it expects the nations of the world to disarm. I've asked Baha'is what is going to happen if one nation, or a group of nations, hide their weapons? All the other nations would have disarmed, and then these other nations then rise up. How are the "peaceful" disarmed nations going to stop them?

But what if it's not a nation, but people within many nations? We have that situation right here in the U.S. Their are people stockpiling weapons... They are expecting the government to come and try and take their guns. They are ready to fight back. What if they pretend to go along with the peace plan and let their nation and all others to disarm, then, at some point, they forcibly take control. Who's going to be able to stop them?

Anyway, by moral and loving all you want. But there's a lot of people that belong to a religion that aren't all that holy and spiritual. They don't follow all the rules prescribed by their religion. And I think that includes a lot of Baha'is too.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But there's more to the Baha'is "elixir" than morals codes. I've questioned, yes, and doubted, that the Baha'i peace plan will work. Right from the start it expects the nations of the world to disarm. I've asked Baha'is what is going to happen if one nation, or a group of nations, hide their weapons? All the other nations would have disarmed, and then these other nations then rise up. How are the "peaceful" disarmed nations going to stop them?

There are no Baha'i prophets CG, so none of us can answer such questions?

The Writings indicate what will come about, they do not tell us how it will come about, in finer detail. There are some overriding details given.

So the Nations will disarm, it is an imperative requirement, it will happen. As to how it will happen, apparently we have to blow each other to smithereens before we decide how we will do it, etc etc etc.

We know the boarders of Nations will be set, not how that will come about, and once that is done, no nations government can invade another, if they do the whole world will squash them into submission. We know it will be an international force, how that will be put together and implemented is not known. Etc, etc, etc.

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

It says he will come in the "glory of his Father". Not as the "Father".

But... The Glory of God or Baha'u'llah is a title. Why was that title picked? What significance did it have in Shia Islam? Obviously, it's a great title to fit into the Bible and the NT.

But other people have taken "titles". Like there's a person that calls himself the "Maitreya". In fact, Baha'is claim their prophet, "The Glory of God" is the Maitreya. One of them is lying.

Oh, and another title... the "Christ". Or the Anointed One. Baha'is claim that Baha'u'llah is the Anointed One or the Christ don't they?

And some more titles... Who's this "Son of Man"? You can't say it is Jesus, because the verse you quoted would then say that Jesus will come in the Glory of his Father. And then throughout the Book of Revelation is the "Lamb" or the "Lamb that was slain". For Christians, a clear reference to Jesus. For Baha'is? Some have said it refers to the Bab? Is that official? Or just a guess?

Again, "Christ" is the same as saying the "Lord's Anointed One" or the "Messiah" But later in that same chapter it says...

27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.​

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Implying that when he arrives, it will be obvious and all will see. But another problem for Baha'is... It doesn't say the "Glory of God" will come. It says the Son of Man. Can you make the "Son of Man" to mean Baha'u'llah? Seems like it would be kind of hard do. Baha'is would have to make Baha'u'llah both the Glory of God and the Son of Man and the Father and the Son at the same time.

30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.​

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So, here's more verses that say it is the "Son of Man" that is coming. Anyway, I'm sure there is a "symbolic" interpretation that Baha'is can come up with to make the Son of Man Baha'u'llah and the Father... So, if you got 'em, let's hear "em.



Those are very good verses for Baha'is. But there are still all those verses that talk about the "Lamb". And making the Lamb the Bab is kind of a stretch. The Lamb fits Jesus very well.

But... one more problem... For Baha'is two Manifestations came before Baha'u'llah... Muhammad and then the Bab. For me, the Baha'is interpretations of verses in Revelation, that they say refer to Muhammad and the Bab, are very weak. The "Two Witnesses" being Muhammad and Ali. Then the "Three Woes" being Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Also very weak is the Baha'i attempt to make six different events that begin and end at different times all to have started at the same time 622AD, and ended at the same time 1844. Then along the way Baha'is make the Islamic dynasty of the Umayyads the beast.

Then Revelation ends like this...

Rev 22:16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you[a] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”​

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17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.​

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18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.​

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20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.”​

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Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.​

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21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen.​

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Nothing about the Son of Man, or the Lamb or the Glory of God or a new name... It's all about Jesus. It says, "I Jesus". I am the Root and Offspring of David. "Yes, I am coming soon." And who is this "I" In verse sixteen it says it was Jesus. And the writer seems to think it was Jesus when he says "Come, Lord Jesus."

So, interpret away. Show me the Baha'is interpretation to these other verses that seem to point to Jesus.

It’s very simple really. It’s easy to see the sun because it’s so bright and It’s easy to see the spiritual station of Baha’u’llah by His own Person, Life and teachings. The prophecies are really the icing on the cake but the real proof is that Baha’u’llah has succeeded in uniting people into the only world community that exists on earth comprising a cross section of humanity from all races, religions, nationalities and cultures under one world governance. This is the elusive peace that the world can’t find because they don’t having anything to unite them. They’re split into conflicting nations, races and religions, some at war and can’t get along or find a way to get along whereas with Baha’u’llah it’s easy.

No one no matter how powerful or wealthy has succeeded in achieving what Baha’u’llah has achieved in establishing a word community completely united. The east and the west can’t get along. The Jews and Muslims. The Burmese war. Upheavals in Syria and Iran. The war between Russia and Ukraine all proof, substantial proof that only Baha’u’llah has been able to unite and reconcile the conflicting peoples into one world community and also proof that world governance works under Baha’u’llah.

Getting back to the prophecies and titles Glory of God and such. All the Manifestations represent a name of God. They have an independent name too, an earthly name but their spiritual station is unquestionable. They achieved the impossible, against all odds overcame oppression, cruelty, torture, exile and crucifixion yet their Cause eventually won over their very enemies. What power could achieve this except a power from God? Is the earthly wealth, power and armies of today able to unite people, stop the wars?

Yet a Prisoner and Exile has been able to achieve what none have been able to achieve. The credentials of Baha’u’llah as the Promised One are irrefutable and all humanity will eventually come to see that these teachings of the oneness of humanity are the only refuge for humanity. Only when we accept our oneness will we be able to extract ourselves from the quagmire we are currently in. This is what all the prophecies of all religions point to. Someone who will unite us all. The one fold and one shepherd. The day the wolf and the lamb will be at peace.

As the Bible says “All eyes shall see Him”. This is a process of humanity awakening to a new spiritual reality, our oneness and slowly moving away from hate and prejudice. History shows us how God’s Manifestations eventually win over the hearts and minds of men despite the severest of opposition by the most powerful and wealthy. The world doesn’t need to become Baha’i. All that needs to happen is we accept humanity’s oneness and that is enough to achieve peace.

Has He not, in past days, caused Abraham, in spite of His seeming helplessness, to triumph over the forces of Nimrod? Has He not enabled Moses, whose staff was His only companion, to vanquish Pharaoh and his hosts? Has He not established the ascendancy of Jesus, poor and lowly as He was in the eyes of men, over the combined forces of the Jewish people? Has He not subjected the barbarous and militant tribes of Arabia to the holy and transforming discipline of Muḥammad, His Prophet? (The Bab)

 

[CG Didymus]

Since the Bible is Not in ABC order then one needs to go by subject or topic arrangement on one subject or topic at a time
In other words, the Bible is chock full of corresponding or parallel cross-reference verses and passages

@CG Didymus This is excellent advice.

Yes, for you too. But there are parts that are presented in an order. Like when Jesus was taken and crucified. What happened next? The story is in all four gospels, but Baha'is for some reason say those verses are symbolic.

Even with verses that most people do take as being symbolic, like in Revelation, there is an order of events. In chapter 11 there are two witnesses that do their giving prophesy thing for 1260 days. Then they are killed and their bodies are left in the street for three and half days. Yet, somehow Baha'is are okay with making those two separate things begin and end at the same time.

So, please don't tell me I have to do a topic search or whatever else was recommended when Baha'is do whatever they want to the Bible and the NT to make fit their beliefs and timeline.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes, for you too. But there are parts that are presented in an order. Like when Jesus was taken and crucified. What happened next? The story is in all four gospels, but Baha'is for some reason say those verses are symbolic.

Even with verses that most people do take as being symbolic, like in Revelation, there is an order of events. In chapter 11 there are two witnesses that do their giving prophesy thing for 1260 days. Then they are killed and their bodies are left in the street for three and half days. Yet, somehow Baha'is are okay with making those two separate things begin and end at the same time.

So, please don't tell me I have to do a topic search or whatever else was recommended when Baha'is do whatever they want to the Bible and the NT to make fit their beliefs and timeline.

It's all up to you CG, I have not told you what to do the whole time we have conversed, only given what I see is reliable material to pursue.

Maybe its just ime to leave it all with you CG.

Regards Tony

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Peace to all,

Which God has the greatest promise.


To me in logic, The Redeemer through death and resurrection from the cross crosses down to the chasm of death, like the parable of the thief in the night and with flesh breaks down the gates of Death, Hell, tearing down it's walls and binding Satin in his own home forever. Then, like a thief in the night steals back His souls, The Redeemer crosses over to and empties the chasm of the Bosom Of Abraham where all the souls of the lost flesh from Adam and Eve and the angels and saints and Old Covenant saved and martyrs awaited. He steals, takes back what was lost from death, from Satin causing death. The redeemer takes back what is His, and resurrects life back from where it came. Dismas, the repentant thief from the cross was also with Him. The Redeemer with flesh resurrects eternal life of the flesh and spirits for all mankind becoming the New Body of God reopening the gates of Heaven back to the Body, together in the Divine Spirit through the eternal flesh for the soul in the glorified and transfigured Body of God. We become united as one in being, all mankind united together to the new heaven and earth, Heaven, from the new spirit through the eternal flesh for the souls of all mankind now in The being of The Body of God. we become united as one and together with the Father and The Son, glorified and transfigured becoming His Image. The fulfilled faith and morality of The Redeemed, the Word, the eternal priestly authority, the real intelligence is the power that manifests infalliblly forever, through the Divine Spirit Will of God that became flesh delivered in the Ark of The New Covenant by the real intelligence of Creation.

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Peace to all,

which God has the greatest promise?

Peace always,
Stephen andrew

The One and only God.

Regards Tony

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Peace to all,

So true, thanks.
One God, same God, Thanks.
The Bahá'í sacred texts emphatically proclaim “the Sonship and Divinity of Jesus Christ.”

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Peace to all,
Which God has the greatest promise.
To me in logic, The Redeemer through death and resurrection from the cross crosses down to the chasm of death, like the parable of the thief in the night and with flesh breaks down the gates of Death, Hell, tearing down it's walls and binding Satin in his own home forever..................................

... and Peace in return to all
Yes, the Redeemer, aka Christ Jesus, was dead now alive forever having the keys to unlock both biblical hell (grave) and death for us
Please see Revelation 1:18
Jesus not only will destroy enemy death (1st Corinthians 15:26) but will also destroy enemy Satan - Hebrews 2:14 B
Sinner Satan, that Chief Desecrator, thus is 'Not bound in his own home' but I find: destroyed forever
ALL unrepentant wicked ones are ' destroyed forever ' - Psalms 92:7; 104:35; 145:20; Proverbs 2:22

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Peace to all,

He taught in parables, parables to help us understand the logic of the spirit will of the Divine Kingdom.

To me this is the logic of fiat power.

To me, the logic is the fulfilled spirit Will of God becoming into all mankind making The Baptized Body sanctified immortal and incorruptible and re-Confirmed sanctified becoming again, glorified through Penance and Sacrifice and in Communion with Him as One in Being we are transfigured into the image of the Creator God the Father through the power of His Will.

In 1944 in Bretton Woods, New Hampshire, the fiat power on earth set currency to the Dollar at $35 on Ounce of Gold.
Fiat is Latin for, "Let it be the Will of the One in Power."

To me, the logic of teh fiat Power of the Divine Will is God transferred the intelligence in the person of the Holy Spirit through the person of Jesus Christ in the flesh for all mankind as Shared in Being as One God.

What is removed in the new intelligence is no chance of failure of any kind of end from choice of failure so no death or end, only eternal life.

The Divine Spirit is the spirit will of infallible logic that unites all mankind as one in being.

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

 

[URAVIP2ME]

You are living in a dream world.
The UN consists of many nations of various religious and political backgrounds.
The Right to Veto It was agreed by the drafters that if any one of the five permanent members cast a negative vote in the 15-member Security Council, the resolution or decision would not be approved.
..and the resolution not to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel (and keep it Tel Aviv) was
passed by 14 out of 15 - Trump vetoed it .. and we all have to bear the consequences.

In the past God used the political/military as His strong arm of the law to carry out His will, His purpose
For example: in the year 70 God used the Roman armies to destroy un-faithful Jerusalem
Thus, with backing the UN can be strengthened to become God's modern day arm of the law - Rev. 17:13,11 B, 17
Religion or worship that proves un-faithful to God will be done away with as un-faithful Jerusalem was in the year 70
Since Pentecost, for Christians it is Not any fleshly-national Israel but Heavenly Jerusalem - Rev. 20
The ' seat of government ' for God's Kingdom government is located in Heaven - Galatians 4:26
Thus, No one has the right nor can Veto God
The coming future will begin when the militarized 'horns' of the UN will surprisingly turn on the religious world
This can be particularly intense for any false Christianity because it corresponds to old un-faithful Jerusalem in the year 70
Any so-called Christianity that meddles, or tries to meddle, in world affairs will bring negative attention to itself in No dream world

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Peace to all,
What is removed in the new intelligence is no chance of failure of any kind of end from choice of failure so no death or end, only eternal life.

... and Peace in return to all
There is resurrection from the ' death ' that we inherited from fallen-father Adam - Acts 24:15
Resurrection is for both the righteous and unrighteous ( KJV - just and unjust ) - Acts 24:15
Thus, 'eternal life' is for both the righteous and the unrighteous who can prove righteous after they are resurrected - John 6:40,44
Humble meek people will inherit (eternal life) as Jesus promised at Matthew 5:5 from Psalms 37:9-11; 22:26
As for the wicked they will be ' destroyed forever ' according to Psalms 92:7; 104:35; 145:20; Proverbs 2:22
The ' sword-like judgement words from Jesus' mouth ' will destroy the wicked - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-15
No resurrection for the wicked - Jeremiah 51:39,57