the right religion

[sojourner]

If it was suitable it wouldn't have rules against the natural order of things in the world. If it was suitable it wouldn't go against what society deems acceptable. If it was universally suitable then it would be changeable and flexible to suit advances of societal and scientific understanding throughout time. No religion with a set holy book can claim any of that.

Xy, at its best, does. it celebrates the natural order. It celebrates the community's healthy endeavors. It changes and has flexed with scientific advancement. Its holy book is multivalent.

 

[sojourner]

I guess rationalists must fall outside of humanity.

I guess empiricists must also fall outside of humanity.:flirt:

 

[earlwooters]

If there was a "right religion" then everyone would belong to it. Since everyone does not belong to the same religion, we must assume that there is no "right religion". There are many religions, and if all of them can't be right then we must assume that none of them are right, or that lots of people are being decieved and told that their religion is the right one and that all others are wrong. They cannot all be right, but they can all be wrong.

 

[sojourner]

If there was a "right religion" then everyone would belong to it. Since everyone does not belong to the same religion, we must assume that there is no "right religion". There are many religions, and if all of them can't be right then we must assume that none of them are right, or that lots of people are being decieved and told that their religion is the right one and that all others are wrong. They cannot all be right, but they can all be wrong.

Why can't they all be right? (Unless you're at least as narrow-minded as the fundamentalists who take so much crap here for their views.)

 

[kepha31]

If there was a "right religion" then everyone would belong to it. Since everyone does not belong to the same religion, we must assume that there is no "right religion". There are many religions, and if all of them can't be right then we must assume that none of them are right, or that lots of people are being decieved and told that their religion is the right one and that all others are wrong. They cannot all be right, but they can all be wrong.

If there was a "right religion" then everyone would belong to it.

That would make God a dictator and us being robots.

Since everyone does not belong to the same religion, we must assume that there is no "right religion".

If objective truth really exists, I would begin with saying we all belong to the human race. Either we all do or we all don't. If we all don't, then there must be humans that don't belong in the human race. All I did was replace "religion" with "human race" to illustrate your insane reasoning. But your system won't allow you to accept objective truth. You are a relativist by default.

There are many religions, and if all of them can't be right then we must assume that none of them are right,

Again, it's not a question of being "right". Everybody is "right". It's a question of truth. The first truth to look at is that we are all members of the human race. That, I think, is a good starting point.

or that lots of people are being decieved and told that their religion is the right one and that all others are wrong.

Again, it's not a matter of right or wrong, it's a matter of truth. If you defy the law of gravity and jump off a cliff, you will get hurt or worse, no matter what you believe about gravity. If you kill someone, you will probably go to jail. Both individuals and/or society stand to lose by breaking the laws of God that apply to all of humanity, much like jumping off a cliff because of ones stupidity. "religion" is not a four letter word. It is there to protect our freedom. Unbelief seeks to remove it.

For your reading pleasure:
Declaration on the Relation of the Church to non-christian religions - Nostra Aetate

How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization

 

[atanu]

I think we are veering a bit from the OP, to which is the following reply. Right religion is 'right work', 'right thinking' and belief in the true WILL of the Supreme cause. People born in different circumstances cannot have the same 'right work'. Someone born in Henry Ford's family may not have same 'right work' as atanu.

In this regard, I cite from Holy Koran to show that OP is wrong.

And do not argue with the people of the Scripture except in the best manner; except for those who are wicked amongst them, and say: “We believe in what was revealed to us and in what was revealed to you, and our god and your god is the same; to Him we submit.” [29:46]

Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in God has grasped the most sure hand-hold, that never breaks. And God is Hearing, Knowing. [2:256]

And there are some of them who believe in it, and some of them do not believe in it. Your Lord is better aware of the transgressors.
And if they deny you, then say: “I have my deeds, and you have your deeds. You are innocent from what I do, and I am innocent from what you do.”[10:40-41]

This is a reminder, so let he who wishes take a path to his Lord. [73:19]

Those who believe, and those who are Jewish, and the Sabiens, and the Nazarenes; whoever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good works, then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve. [5:69]
​

I am sure that followers of different religions will find similar teaching in their scriptures. Yet, I truly adore the Holy Koran for the following:

2.213. Mankind were one community, and Allah sent (unto them) Prophets as bearers of good tidings and as warners, and revealed therewith the Scripture with the truth that mankind might judge concerning that wherein they differed. And unto whom (the Scripture) was given differed only through hatred one of another. And Allah by His will guided those who believe unto the truth of that concerning which they differed. Allah guideth whom He will unto a straight path.
​

Why we see the perceived differences in 'other viewpoints' as representative of evil? Why we find the mistake in other and not in our heart?

 

[islam abduallah]

How do you know Quran is the word of Allah?

it's wrong to answer a question by question, suppose that the quran is wrong and it's not the word of allah, how about your belief? why you are chrsitian just because you are born as?

 

[islam abduallah]

Jews are wrong for looking towards Jerusalem to pray, because Allah is everywhere. But Allah wants you to look towards mecca and pray.

i asked you before to mention where the Quran blame the Jews for directing towards jeursalim during prayer? but youi don't answer, now i repeat the question and i hope i could find an answer

 

[islam abduallah]

BEcause in the first he promised a new covenant, which came with the second

and how told you that the second didn't include another convent by a third book?

 

[islam abduallah]

A clover has three distinct and separate petals, but it is one clover. Such is a trinity.

In case you never seen a clover.....

it doesn't make sense too, according to your example that the god is consisting of three parts, the son is part and father is part and the holy spirit is the last part which is illogical, because you claim that the father begot the son, so how the god begot a part of himself and how a part of the god could have a half of mankind as christians belief

 

[islam abduallah]

well, as it's too easy like that, why don't you make an eye or a brain? and who creates the cells and the matters and who made that arrangement in order to make an eye by a certain arrangements and a brain by another arrangements, who did all of that ?

@Jelly, why you don't answer that question?

 

[islam abduallah]

no need for thanks, i just express my opinion and really i like your post



well, could you check that video and feed me back
[youtube]WF9OWB70mv8[/youtube]
YouTube - ‪Scientific Quran Miracles, Backbone Ribs Miracle




a book from the god shouldn't contain any errors,



the evolution doesn't fit with the quran and it's not proven till now, it's just doubts of darwin not more,



i'm not feel offended, i come here and i know well that i'll face many thoughts against Islam


,

yes



because Allah listens to me all the time, not me only listens to all the mankind, he's competent enough to do that



a holy book isn't sent just for communication, it's to learn us the god's law, and to prove his existence, many other things



look Muslim, christians and jews worship the god of abraham, all of them agreed on that but when christians said that they worship the jesus so here we are totally different
.
do you still have another errors (you doubt about)




except quran


finally, my dear you are judging the quran in really too wrong way, you just hear from one side, and judge the quran based on what they are telling you, although that they are telling you lies, they fabricate a video showing that there is another quran which is totally different about what we have now, and the copy of uthman is missed and you believe them althouhg if you just search abuot it in wiki you will discover that they are liars, and now that there is mistakes in quran withot one proof

dear please don't feel offensive, i swear i don't mean that, i just want to help, if you are really to look for the truth, you must be neutral, listen from both side before judging, you should read the quran before judging it

i hope really you don't feel offensive

@ captian britain, i didn't hear your opinion yet

 

[JacobEzra.]

it's wrong to answer a question by question, suppose that the quran is wrong and it's not the word of allah, how about your belief? why you are chrsitian just because you are born as?

Nope. I grew up atheist, and practiced Judaism first, then went to Christianity.

Why are you muslim? Because you are born one?

 

[JacobEzra.]

it doesn't make sense too, according to your example that the god is consisting of three parts,

Correct three distinct persons, of one essence. Like a clover.

the son is part and father is part and the holy spirit is the last part which is illogical,

Is it also illogical that a clover has three distinct parts, but are one?

you claim that the father begot the son, so how the god begot a part of himself and how a part of the god could have a half of mankind as christians belief

Well I never claimed anything in my post. But good point. Father begot the son.

Begot means

begot [bɪˈgɒt]
vb
a past tense and past participle of beget

begot - definition of begot by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

Beget means..

be·get (b-gt)
tr.v. be·got (-gt), be·got·ten (-gtn) or be·got, be·get·ting, be·gets
1. To father; sire.
2. To cause to exist or occur; produce

So which of the two meanings is in the meaning of when we say God the Father begot God the Son?

As in the Nicene Creed

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, and born of the Father before all ages. (God of God) light of light, true God of true God. Begotten not made, consubstantial to the Father, by whom all things were made.

Sounds like the Son was caused to exist.

How can the Father do this? I dont know, but I always herd when I was a kid, God can do whatever he wills.

How part of God could have half human? Well because the second part of the trinity is his own person. Three distinct persons, remember I have said this a couple of times. Three distinct persons.

 

[islam abduallah]

Nope. I grew up atheist, and practiced Judaism first, then went to Christianity.

Why are you muslim? Because you are born one?

you don't answer me why you are a christian ?, how do you know that the gospel is the last word of god?

 

[Otherright]

you don't answer me why you are a christian ?, how do you know that the gospel is the last word of god?

I've actually used that argument before. BTW, were you born Muslim?

 

[islam abduallah]

Correct three distinct persons, of one essence. Like a clover.

Is it also illogical that a clover has three distinct parts, but are one?

well thanks for your information, even i'm not convinced but at least i understood how do understand it?, thanks a lot

So which of the two meanings is in the meaning of when we say God the Father begot God the Son?

i'm not English speaker but i think sire is the closest to the Arabic copy of the bible, in arabic it's acting as that the god had sexual relation as a male with mary and the jesus is produced from that relation, all of Muslims and many christians refuse that description but do you agree on that meaning? also i'd like to know "do you have objection to say that the Jesus was a prophet like other prophets "

you didn't tell me yet where the Quran blames the Jews for directing towards Jerusalem?

 

[sojourner]

do you have objection to say that the Jesus was a prophet like other prophets

You can say whatever you like. We believe he is God.

 

[Pegg]

you don't answer me why you are a christian ?, how do you know that the gospel is the last word of god?

I'll tell you why I believe the gospel, or the greek scriptures, is the last word of God.

You believe that the Hebrew scriptures are the word of God. Muhammad instructed muslims to believe in the words of Moses and the prophets. So obviously the Hebrew scriptures, the Torah, are the word of God.

They inform us that a savior, sent by God, will come into the world. The prophet Daniel gives us the exact year of the Messiahs arrival. That year was 29ce. This was the year that Jesus Christ began his ministry and proclaimed Gods Kingdom was near.

Now if I am to believe that Muhammad was correct in directing people to the writings of the Torah, then I must also believe that the one prophesied to arrive, is the one God wants us to follow. And If I believe that Jesus was that prophet, then the writings which explain his teachings are the ones that must be leading us to God and his kingdom.

thats why I am a christian and not a muslim.

 

[JacobEzra.]

well thanks for your information, even i'm not convinced but at least i understood how do understand it?, thanks a lot

I used to not understand it either. That is why I practiced Judaism. But through personal experience I came to believe in Jesus and the Gospel. I also can understand the Trinity now, unlike before. Through the grace of God I guess. Jesus did say that thous who follow him, where chosen by the Father.

i'm not English speaker but i think sire is the closest to the Arabic copy of the bible, in arabic it's acting as that the god had sexual relation as a male with mary and the jesus is produced from that relation, all of Muslims and many christians refuse that description but do you agree on that meaning?

No because God the Son existed before he was sent to Earth. Existed before the Earth was even made.

also i'd like to know "do you have objection to say that the Jesus was a prophet like other prophets "

Personally, yes. Because I am specifically a Catholic and believe in the Trinity. But there are Unitarians who do not profess the trinity as a belief. So I guess it depends on who you talk to.

you didn't tell me yet where the Quran blames the Jews for directing towards Jerusalem?

2;115
And to Allah belong the east and the west, so wherever you turn yourselves or your faces there is the Face of Allah (and He is High above, over His Throne). Surely! Allah is All-Sufficient for His creatures' needs, All-Knowing.

2;142-145
And to Allah belong the east and the west, so wherever you turn yourselves or your faces there is the Face of Allah (and He is High above, over His Throne). Surely! Allah is All-Sufficient for His creatures' needs, All-Knowing.
Thus We have made you [true Muslims - real believers of Islamic Monotheism, true followers of Prophet Muhammad SAW and his Sunnah (legal ways)], a Wasat (just) (and the best) nation, that you be witnesses over mankind and the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) be a witness over you. And We made the Qiblah (prayer direction towards Jerusalem) which you used to face, only to test those who followed the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) from those who would turn on their heels (i.e. disobey the Messenger). Indeed it was great (heavy) except for those whom Allah guided. And Allah would never make your faith (prayers) to be lost (i.e. your prayers offered towards Jerusalem). Truly, Allah is full of kindness, the Most Merciful towards mankind.Verily! We have seen the turning of your (Muhammad's SAW) face towards the heaven. Surely, We shall turn you to a Qiblah (prayer direction) that shall please you, so turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid- al-Haram (at Makkah). And wheresoever you people are, turn your faces (in prayer) in that direction. Certainly, the people who were given the Scriptures (i.e. Jews and the Christians) know well that, that (your turning towards the direction of the Ka'bah at Makkah in prayers) is the truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do.And even if you were to bring to the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) all the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.), they would not follow your Qiblah (prayer direction), nor are you going to follow their Qiblah (prayer direction). And they will not follow each other's Qiblah (prayer direction). Verily, if you follow their desires after that which you have received of knowledge (from Allah), then indeed you will be one of the Zalimun (polytheists, wrong-doers, etc.).

2;177
It is not Al-Birr (piety, righteousness, and each and every act of obedience to Allah, etc.) that you turn your faces towards east and (or) west (in prayers);

So...Allah is east and west and you can pray towards anyway you want....But no you got to pray towards mecca because Allah says so, and Jews and Christians are wrong. Now in 2;177 its not righteous to pray east or west but in 2;115 its says " Allah belong the east and the west, so wherever you turn yourselves or your faces there is the Face of Allah"