the right religion

[Breathe]

I would say that Mohammed was a messenger of God.

so as you believe in that, why you are not a muslim?

That's a good question, actually. I would like to see how this is answered.

 

[islam abduallah]

Translations are not the issue because we have hebrew and Greek manuscripts with which to compare. Many bible students are both greek and hebrew speaking people, so many can and do read the original languages.

could i ask you question directly?, did the god promise to keep and guard the bible from distortion? also how many of that students? is the translations in our hands now are good translations or not? i used KJV, what's your opinion about it? it's better or the revised international version?

I have seen many different english translations of the Quran, some are said to be good translations and others, not so good. It is exactly the same with the bible.

maybe you are right but the arabic copy is available to all, and we have more than 300 Million muslims speak arabic natively, and more than them learn the arabic in Alazhar in gypt or in the islamic centers, excuse me but there's no comparison between the Quran and the bible from that point of view

The way the Hebrew scriptures were copied was by hand on papryus. The Jews made thousands upon thousands of copies of the original documents...the dead sea scrolls contain copies of the book of Isaiah which is exactly as we have it today in our bibles...except there is about 3 small spelling errors.

just 3 spelling errors in the O.T., so do you mean that the song of songs is the word of god, please don't explain it as others who said that it's the church not a woman of Solomon, is Ezekiel 23 a word of god? don't also explain it that those 2 sisters are Egypt and Israel, is Leviticus 15-19 a word of god?

my opinion is that it was not necessary to list every link in Jesus lineage. We see that Moses did the same thing in his genealogy from Adam through Seth...

is that Moses work or the god's work?

The ones that are in the list are the important and more well known names.

i disagree with you about that, let's see the begin of the chain at Luke jesus the son of Joseph the son of heli the son of Matthat, while @ Matthew, Jesus the son of Joseph the son of Jacob the son of Matthan, i can guess that Matthan is Matthat just N instead of T, but i can't say that Jacob was heli could you prove that?

Also, Luke was not writing for a jewish audience, whereas Matthew was. A Jewish audience would automatically know the names of certain men of Isreal by naming only the grandparent.

well, your words reveal that the gospel isn't the word of god, it's the word of Luke, Matthew, John,. with the help of Jewish, if it's a word of god it won't be different in case if there's audience from Jews or not,

And they also both trace through different lines of descent. Mathew traces through Marys' husbands line, while Luke traces through Mary's family line.

i think both are for the Husband of Mary Joseph

Moses was annointed, David was annointed, prophets were annointed... but at Daniel 9:25, 26 the word ma‧shi′ach applies exclusively to the coming Messiah. He was to be the ruler of the entire earth. So the scale of the one annointed by God would be far greater then anything Moses or David or anyone else may have done.

and who told you that this Messiah was the Jesus?

No, i never ignore a sincere question. I think you should know that this rule is applied when a woman is in a 'teaching' position in the congregation. Christian woman were to be in subjection to the role of the man as the leader of the congregations...but back in the first century when Paul wrote this letter, women were prophesying because God had poured out his spirit and many christians were involved in prophesying and talking in tongues.

Paul was telling those christian women that if they came into a congregation with a prophecy or with a teaching, they must cover their heads as a sign of respect to the men of the congregation because the men were to be the leaders of the congregations under Christ. Now today, there is no more prophesying and the women do not sit as leaders of the congregations.... but if a woman had to take a lead role because no man was available, then she would rightly cover her head in respect. And i have seen this done, so we do it when it is needed. But generally women are not teachers or leaders in our congregations, so we dont pray on behalf of others in church. If we had to, then we would cover our heads

my dear thanks for your information, but i have to disagree with you again, the chapter is talking generally about prayer and prophesying, you had explained the prophesying but still the prayers, women will still pray till their death, Jesus had explained why the women should cover her head during prayer in the same chapter, and he makes a clear difference between men and women in prayers
4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head, 5But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
6For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered

here women must cover her head while men must not during prayer, why that? 7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
here the Jesus said the reason,
also 9Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man
also 13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? these are the real reasons not what you mentioned and confirmed by the following verse 14Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

15But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

you see there is another reason is the long hair of the woman,

 

[JacobEzra.]

regarding to "before Abraham i was", i can say it about myself, before Abraham i was in the god's knowledge, the god knows before he creates the earth that i'll chat with you on RF, also i believe that the Jesus is the word of god without believing that he's the god or the son of god, "[And mention] when the angels said, "O Mary, indeed Allah gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary - distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near [to Allah ]"

this is our believing about the jesus a word from the god to Mary, his name is Mssiah jesus the son of Mary.



ok, well so why he didn't correct them, it was the right time, he did a great miracle and the people were too ready to believe him even if he said that he's the father himself, it was the most suitable moment to prove his divinity "if he really is"



thanks a lot for that, here at verse 17 seems that the Jesus approved Simon Bar-Jonah that he's the son of the god not the son of man, let's continue with the verses of the same chapter verses 27,28 and said again that he's the son of Man

27For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

28Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom

and all of that we as Muslims believe in, Jesus will come in the other day in the glory of the god and to be witness on all of what his nations did

and also he will arrive again during this life to kill the anti-christ (Dijal)

also we don't understand the word of god as you understand but we use it as a Metaphor expression as when i said about myself, i'm the son of Islam or the son of Egypt, but indeed nor Islam nor Egypt is male or female to be their son, it means just that i'm strongly belonging to them, do you get my point?

also if we said that the god must have a son, it should be Adam not the Jesus peace upon both, because Adam has no father nor mother but jesus has a mother, and the god said clearly that adam is his son at luke 3:38 "which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God."

and this is what the Quran said "Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created Him from dust; then He said to him, "Be," and he was"



no the blaming is not for not reverting worshiping towards Makka like us, the blaming is for not converting to Islam and then reverting the directions of worshiping towards Makka as you will be a Muslim

I think the most we both could get out of this discussion, we have already. That is, find out the point of view and interpretation of each others religion. Thank you for speaking with me and I wish you luck in your spiritual journey. I wouldnt mind speaking more with you about the similarities of our religions.I though am off to study and wont be back on for a few days. Take care.

 

[islam abduallah]

I think the most we both could get out of this discussion, we have already. That is, find out the point of view and interpretation of each others religion. Thank you for speaking with me and I wish you luck in your spiritual journey. I wouldnt mind speaking more with you about the similarities of our religions.I though am off to study and wont be back on for a few days. Take care.

Ok, have a good luck in your studying , i also liked the discussion with you, i learnt new things from you
i hope that me and you will be guided to the right path which the god likes and blessed
take care

 

[jelly]

@islam abduallah

where does humor come from?

 

[Nerthus]

believe me no, i had discussed with many people and found that most of them have doubts about their belief but they don't like to change or look for another belief or even to search to remove that doubts
people don't like to change "keep it runs if it runs"

If that is what you think, that's fine.

 

[Pegg]

could i ask you question directly?, did the god promise to keep and guard the bible from distortion?

The Bible itself calls attention to the enduring quality of God’s “word.” At Isaiah 40:8 we read: “The green grass has dried up, the blossom has withered; but as for the word of our God, it will last to time indefinite.”
And Jesus stated at Matthew 5:18 "for truly I say to YOU that sooner would heaven and earth pass away than for one smallest letter or one particle of a letter to pass away from the Law by any means and not all things take place"

For these words to be true, it would be necessary for God’s “word” to remain free from distortion. Were it to become unreliable due to an abundance of human errors in copying, it would cease to be God’s message. But the evidence shows that the bible we have today has not changed in thousands of years. The translations may have variations, but they are not the authority...the Hebrew and Greek Manuscripts are the authority for all translations, and these have not changed.

also how many of that students? is the translations in our hands now are good translations or not? i used KJV, what's your opinion about it? it's better or the revised international version?

the KJV was good in its day, but it is a very old translation from the 16th century...so it is based on old english. Modern versions are more appropriate for our time because english has changed a lot since the 16th century. You might be better with an American Standard Version. My opinion is that our 'New World Translation' is the best version because it is based on the original language manuscripts and it is a literal translation with consistent renderings of hebrew and greek words. So for example, while the KJV renders the Hebrew word 'sheol' in three different ways, we render it the same way in all occurrences.

maybe you are right but the arabic copy is available to all, and we have more than 300 Million muslims speak arabic natively, and more than them learn the arabic in Alazhar in gypt or in the islamic centers, excuse me but there's no comparison between the Quran and the bible from that point of view

The Quran is great if you are an Arabic speaking person, but the majority of the world are not Arabic.
The bible is available in almost every language on earth...if you are a pygmy living in the jungles of Borneo, the bible is available to you...if you are an eskimo living in the north pole, the bible is available to you. The bible is much more universal then the Quran. I would expect a book from God to be available to all mankind...especially when that book claims to be for all the nations.

just 3 spelling errors in the O.T., so do you mean that the song of songs is the word of god, please don't explain it as others who said that it's the church not a woman of Solomon, is Ezekiel 23 a word of god? don't also explain it that those 2 sisters are Egypt and Israel, is Leviticus 15-19 a word of god?

The beauty of the bible is that spiritual truths were told to us by means of real events and living people. The love Solomon sang about explains the love God feels for his congregation. The shulamite girl was loyal to her shepherd just as the congregation must be loyal to God.

Ezekeil 23 is about the southern kingdom of Judah and the northern Kingdom of Isreal at a particular time in their history. In the account they are spoken of as 2 married women who became prostitutes because both kingdoms had allied themselves with foreign nations and abandoned their God.

Leviticus 15-19 speaks of physical cleanness. God imposed these sanitary laws so that the nation would be clean and they would know when they were not clean. So yes, all the above scriptures are the word of God that teach very specific and important lessons.

is that Moses work or the god's work?

all bible writers wrote under Gods inspiration and guidance...so of course Moses was writing under Gods direction.

i disagree with you about that, let's see the begin of the chain at Luke jesus the son of Joseph the son of heli the son of Matthat, while @ Matthew, Jesus the son of Joseph the son of Jacob the son of Matthan, i can guess that Matthan is Matthat just N instead of T, but i can't say that Jacob was heli could you prove that?

Jacob was Josephs paternal father, whereas Heli was Josephs 'father in law'. Heli was the father of Mary. And it is correctly written this way because females were not included in the genealogical lists...only fathers and sons were in the lists. Among the Jews there was a saying: ‘Genus matris non vocatur genus' it means 'The descendant of the mother is not called (her) descendant' and this is why both Luke and Matthew go through Josephs father and father in law rather then name Mary.

well, your words reveal that the gospel isn't the word of god, it's the word of Luke, Matthew, John,. with the help of Jewish, if it's a word of god it won't be different in case if there's audience from Jews or not,

the Quran is written for an Arabic audience... would you apply the same logic to the Quran?

and who told you that this Messiah was the Jesus?

God did.

Matthew 3:16 After being baptized Jesus immediately came up from the water; and, look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw descending like a dove God’s spirit coming upon him. 17 Look! Also, there was a voice from the heavens that said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.”

2Peter 1:17 For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when words such as these were borne to him by the magnificent glory: “This is my son, my beloved, whom I myself have approved.” 18 Yes, these words we heard borne from heaven while we were with him in the holy mountain

my dear thanks for your information, but i have to disagree with you again, the chapter is talking generally about prayer and prophesying, you had explained the prophesying but still the prayers, women will still pray till their death, Jesus had explained why the women should cover her head during prayer in the same chapter, and he makes a clear difference between men and women in prayers
4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head, 5But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
6For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered

here women must cover her head while men must not during prayer, why that? 7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
here the Jesus said the reason,
also 9Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man
also 13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? these are the real reasons not what you mentioned and confirmed by the following verse 14Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

15But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

you see there is another reason is the long hair of the woman,

Please look at the context of the above verse...Paul is talking about when they come together in the congregation. Look at vs 17 But, while giving these instructions, I do not commend YOU because it is, not for the better, but for the worse that YOU meet together. 18 For first of all, when YOU come together in a congregation..."

Women are not supposed to pray on behalf of a congregation...that is the role for a man. But if a woman was required to pray on behalf of a congregation, then Paul is saying she must wear a headdress. But this is not needed if she is simply praying privately alone because God gave women a head covering...it is her long hair and it is given as a sign of her submission. When God made Adam and Eve clothing, there is no mention of a headcovering for Eve.

If you really believe that God is concerned with a woman who expresses her submissiveness by the long hair that he gave her, then perhaps its an issue to take up with God himself.

But I do not buy into the argument that a women must by necessity wear a head covering as if her hair is not enough. God made her hair long as a glory to her and as a sign of her position in relation to a man in the congregations. God does not require her to wear one when she prays directly to him for herself, because as verse 15 states

"but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? Because her hair is given her instead of a headdress" Paul is recognizing the fact that God gave women long hair as a 'sign' of submission. We do not need anything else in Gods eyes because everything he commissioned is perfect and is all that is required.

Basically, what i'm saying is this: If a woman is already showing herself to be submissive to a man by following his lead, and allowing him to be in the leadership position....why does she need further proof of her submission by means of the headscarf? If she is already showing submission, then the requirement of more proof is simply unreasonable and unnecessary. And if God does not require it, then nor should men.

 

[islam abduallah]

@ jelly, this should be answered first

well, as it's too easy like that, why don't you make an eye or a brain? and who creates the cells and the matters and who made that arrangement in order to make an eye by a certain arrangements and a brain by another arrangements, who did all of that ?

 

[atanu]

regarding to "before Abraham i was", i can say it about myself, before Abraham i was in the god's knowledge, the god knows before he creates the earth that i'll chat with you on RF,

No. You could not have been before Abraham by the argument presented here, since the same logic will apply to Abraham being in God's knowledge.

 

[jelly]

@ jelly, this should be answered first

well, as it's too easy like that, why don't you make an eye or a brain? and who creates the cells and the matters and who made that arrangement in order to make an eye by a certain arrangements and a brain by another arrangements, who did all of that ?

the Qur'an says Allah did it.
what is the source of origin for humor?

 

[jelly]

and to reply to this:

well, as it's too easy like that, why don't you make an eye or a brain?

I am not interested in making an eye or brain at this time.
so I ask again: what is the source of origin for humor?

 

[ReligionBro]

There is no "right" religion. You're acquainted with your religion solely due to the fact you were born in a certain location rather than another. That's all.

 

[ReligionBro]

and to reply to this:

I am not interested in making an eye or brain at this time.
so I ask again: what is the source of origin for humor?

What exactly are you asking here?

 

[islam abduallah]

the Qur'an says Allah did it.
what is the source of origin for humor?

i know well that the Quran said that Allah did that, you don't believe in the quran or what it said you don't believe that there's a god or a creator for that universe, so you have to tell me before any further question, based on your belief who make the arrangement of the cells and tissues to make a brain a time and another time by another arrangment makes an eye, what did your belief tell you about that

 

[islam abduallah]

I am not interested in making an eye or brain at this time.

even if you wish you will not

 

[islam abduallah]

There is no "right" religion. You're acquainted with your religion solely due to the fact you were born in a certain location rather than another. That's all.

MY DEAR if you follow the posts posted before you will figure out that i meant the right religion in the god's eyes, what the god wills us to follow
i'm against to follow the religion based on your location and follow it as a blind, this isn't a faith

 

[sojourner]

if you follow the posts posted before you will figure out that i meant the right religion in the god's eyes, what the god wills us to follow

God wants us to follow the religion that is right for us to follow. Many people -- many religions.

 

[Rhizomatic]

MY DEAR if you follow the posts posted before you will figure out that i meant the right religion in the god's eyes, what the god wills us to follow
i'm against to follow the religion based on your location and follow it as a blind, this isn't a faith

From a theistic perspective, maybe (though there are quite a few theists who would support the 'maybe not' side of things). There are plenty of atheist religions that would disagree, though.

 

[Tamar]

there r many religion in the world, but surly there r only one right religion, but how could we reach the right believe, the right path?

There are different paths to G-d. Each of us finds our way and for us it is right.

That is one of the biggest problems with religion, the idea that there is a true one and everyone else is wrong.

 

[Tamar]

i mean by the right path, the religion which the god wills us to follow, do you think the god will order us to follow 2 religions?!

Jews follow G-d in their understanding, Christians follow how they see G-d and Muslims follow their understanding.