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the right religion

Tamar

I am Jewish.
this is wrong, to be christian cuz your parents were christians is really wrong, you should choose your religion by yourself, not just being a christian or muslims cuz your parents were


The problem with that is that Christians and Muslims bring up their children to believe that unless they believe the religion they are being raised in they will go to hell. That is indoctrination and that type of teaching is really hard to question or to walk away from.
 

jelly

Active Member
i know well that the Quran said that Allah did that, you don't believe in the quran or what it said you don't believe that there's a god or a creator for that universe, so you have to tell me before any further question, based on your belief who make the arrangement of the cells and tissues to make a brain a time and another time by another arrangment makes an eye, what did your belief tell you about that :)
so you are telling me that Allah has a sense of humor?
 

jelly

Active Member
i know well that the Quran said that Allah did that, you don't believe in the quran or what it said you don't believe that there's a god or a creator for that universe, so you have to tell me before any further question, based on your belief who make the arrangement of the cells and tissues to make a brain a time and another time by another arrangment makes an eye, what did your belief tell you about that :)
your question is incoherent.
 

islam abduallah

Active Member
The Bible attention to the enduring quality of God’s “word.” At Isaiah 40:8 we read: “The green grass has dried up, the blossom has withered; but as for the word of our God, it will last to time indefinite.”
And Jesus stated at Matthew 5:18 "for truly I say to YOU that sooner would heaven and earth pass away than for one smallest letter or one particle of a letter to pass away from the Law by any means and not all things take place"

it's talking about the word of god generally not the bible, but the quran said about itself "Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur'an and indeed, We will be its guardian" this verse is specified for the Quran not generally

the KJV was good in its day, but it is a very old translation from the 16th century...so it is based on old english. Modern versions are more appropriate for our time because english has changed a lot since the 16th century. You might be better with an American Standard Version. My opinion is that our 'New World Translation' is the best version because it is based on the original language manuscripts and it is a literal translation with consistent renderings of hebrew and greek words. So for example, while the KJV renders the Hebrew word 'sheol' in three different ways, we render it the same way in all occurrences.

Ok, thanks i'll use the American standard version :)


The Quran is great if you are an Arabic speaking person, but the majority of the world are not Arabic
The bible is available in almost every language on earth...if you are a pygmy living in the jungles of Borneo, the bible is available to you...if you are an eskimo living in the north pole, the bible is available to you. The bible is much more universal then the Quran. I would expect a book from God to be available to all mankind...especially when that book claims to be for all the nations.

i think too that the transaltion of Quran is available allover the earth, or how we could find the islam in each country?, also you said that the majority of the world are not arabic, are the most of the world speaking old Hebrew or greek? no they use the translation, but the number of people who could read, recite and memorize the original Quran are too great to be compared by who can read the original copy of the bible, no body could deny that.

The beauty of the bible is that spiritual truths were told to us by means of real events and living people. The love Solomon sang about explains the love God feels for his congregation.

i'll tell you a story of a christian girl who converts to Islam because of the song of songs, one day she was riding the train she found that a group of muslim girls are reading the quran to each other loudly, she wondered and asked herself, could i do that with the holy bible, she begin to read the song of songs, people begin to be mad to her when they heard that text, they didn't know it's part of the bible they thought that it's a poem of immoral poet they asked her to stop as really this is hurt them, she aswered that it's part of the holy bible, so the people stopped blaming her, but she still thinking how's the god say words the people considers it as immoral poem, she asked her self when i got a daughter could i teach her the song of songs proudly as Muslims do with their children by teaching them the quran, or her daughter will ask her to be more polite
at the dawn she raised up her hands to the heaven and said my god please show me the truth, when the Muslims dawn prayer, she heard the Imam reciting that verses of the Quran "And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen, I said not to them except what You commanded me - to worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was among them; but when You took me up, You were the Observer over them, and You are, over all things, Witness"
then she converts to Islam, as she got the answer, i know you have the total right to say it's fabricated story, or a lie i did, i just post it to think about it, isn't the god able to choose more polite words which the people can read without feel timidly

Ezekeil 23 is about the southern kingdom of Judah and the northern Kingdom of Isreal at a particular time in their history. In the account they are spoken of as 2 married women who became prostitutes because both kingdoms had allied themselves with foreign nations and abandoned their God.

thank you for clearing it up, but why again the god use those dirty words, why he doesn't use more moral words, believe me if i'm christian i'll not be able to teach my daughter a chapter like that, i'll feel too shy to tell her that the word of your god who ordered you to avoid adultery, who ordered you to respect other and to choose polite words, naturally she may answer and why he didn't tell himself by that
don't feel offensive please, but really i can't understand how do you believe that the god said those words, believe me i can't post them here

Leviticus 15-19 speaks of physical cleanness. God imposed these sanitary laws so that the nation would be clean and they would know when they were not clean. So yes, all the above scriptures are the word of God that teach very specific and important lessons.

look my dear, i can understand that the blood of the period is unclean, and if a drop of that blood touches anything it should be cleaned out, but not tosay that the woman herself is unclean, this is a type of despising to the woman to say "whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even", i can't accept that, i can't shake hand with my mother while her period or i'll be unclean, and to say "verything that she lieth upon in her impurity shall be unclean: everything also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean" and "And whosoever toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even, And whosoever toucheth anything that she sitteth upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even" so how she could sleep if the bed will be unclean, don't you see that a type of Insult and humiliation to women, what's wrong she did, it's a nature that the god makes her like that and then he said that she is unclean and who touches her is unclean and anything she sets on is unclean, why?? if he said about the blood itself i can understand that but he's taking about the women not the blood

Jacob was Josephs paternal father, whereas Heli was Josephs 'father in law'. Heli was the father of Mary.

Thanks for the information :), i had discussed that with 3 Christians before but you are the first who removed some of my doubts thanks :)

so Matthan in Matthew isn't Matthat in Luke?

also there's still that how when Matthew counts the number of fathers from the the Babylon exiling till the Jesus he said they were 14 although that they are 13?

the Quran is written for an Arabic audience... would you apply the same logic to the Quran?

my dear it seems that you don't understand my question, maybe that because my bad English :)

i'm not talking about the language of the written book, you said "
Also, Luke was not writing for a jewish audience, whereas Matthew was. A Jewish audience would automatically know the names of certain men of Isreal by naming only the grandparent"

so you said that the Jewish audience would tell Matthew the names of the people, so here the source of the information is the Jews although that it should be the god, so the Jews are who told Matthew the names, so it's not the word of god, it's word of Jews, do you get my point?
you can't apply that on Quran the Quran revealed to Mohamed through the holy spirit (Gebril) while Mohamed wasn't reader nor writer but he memorized it and recite it to his followers who wrote it and then they read it to him for reviewing and every year in Ramadan Gebril used to come to him to review what revealed from quran with Mohamed and then Mohamed reviewed it with his followers, so here the source of information is the god not the Arab like in the bible as the source of information was the JEWS as you said that they told Matthew the names, so how we could say after that it's the word of god?

God did.

Matthew 3:16 After being baptized Jesus immediately came up from the water; and, look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw descending like a dove God’s spirit coming upon him. 17 Look! Also, there was a voice from the heavens that said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.”

approved as what? as a prophet, son, Messiah?

regarding to the head covering, you have a point of view of understanding the verses and i have an opposite point of view

i understand his speech in 2 points the first related to the head covering while the second is related to the gathering of the people which cause some troubles like eating and drinking in the church and he recommends to them to do at their homes, and this is the problem of gathering the people some eats before others, but no relation of covering head during prayers and gathering the people in the church,
you have your opinion and i have my opinion, everyone stucks with his own one,so let's not spend more time about it, anyway it's not the core of our believing, if a Christian covers her head while prayer you wii not say that she's not Christian just don't understand the verses like you :)
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
There is no "right" religion. You're acquainted with your religion solely due to the fact you were born in a certain location rather than another. That's all.

I was born in the San Francisco Bay Area, and only left it twice in recent years to go to Japan for two weeks on a student exchange program, and to New York for four days to see some plays on Broadway as a graduation present from my mom. I was born in a primarily agnostic household, and the first Holy Scripture I ever read was the Bible, but not until my Senior Year in High School, which was a secular public school.

I'm a Shaivite Hindu.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
it's talking about the word of god generally not the bible, but the quran said about itself "Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur'an and indeed, We will be its guardian" this verse is specified for the Quran not generally

where do you think this writing comes from? It comes from the bible.
The bible is not just one book. It is a collection of books from 40 different writers. The word 'bible' actually means 'little books'... and all the writings, or 'little books' from the holy men such as Moses and the Prophets were gathered together into a 'collection'
in english that 'collection' is called the 'bible' and its the bible that the puts an obligation on all muslims to exercise faith in...it says at Al-Baqarah [2]:285 “Each one (of them) [the men of faith] believeth in God, His angels, His books, and His apostles.” The Qur’ān also speaks about the faithful “who believe in the Revelation sent to thee, and sent before thy time, and (in their hearts) have the assurance of the Hereafter.” at Al-Baqarah [2]:4
The bible are Gods books, they preceded the Qur’ān, which mentions them often and emphasizes that they contain God’s guidance. We read at Āl ‘Imrān [3]:3, 4, NJD: “He has revealed to you the Book with the truth, confirming the scriptures which preceded it; for He has already revealed the Torah and the Gospel [Injīl in Arabic] for the guidance of men.”


So what you are actually dismissing, is the writings of the prophets and Moses. Now if you dismiss their writings, then you are in effect dismissing the one who directed them to write....that one is God... and you are ignoring your own Quran which tells muslims to refer to the bible, “If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee.”—Yūnus [10]:94.

Am I wrong to state this? And If I am wrong, then why does the Quran speak so highly of the bible, but not muslims?

i'll tell you a story of a christian girl who converts to Islam because of the song of songs, one day she was riding the train she found that a group of muslim girls are reading the quran to each other loudly, she wondered and asked herself, could i do that with the holy bible, .... i just post it to think about it, isn't the god able to choose more polite words which the people can read without feel timidly

our sensibilities are not Gods. remember that when he created Adam and Eve, he did not create them with clothing... so nudity and sex is not an issue for God... It is only an issue for us because we are imperfect and view such matters imperfectly.

If we truly respected our bodies in the way God does, we would not feel ashamed of them, nor would we look at them in a negative way and lust for them. imperfect desire is the only reason why we hide ourselves...we are ashamed of our own feelings and those feelings are a result of our sinfulness.

Through the prophet Isaiah, God said
55:8 “For the thoughts of YOU people are not my thoughts, nor are my ways YOUR ways,” is the utterance of Jehovah. 9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so my ways are higher than YOUR ways, and my thoughts than YOUR thoughts"

When a man and woman can look at each other as equals, and not in a sexually perverse way, then we will not need to hide ourselves from each other. Adam and Eve did not need to hide themselves until after they sinned...from that point on they were perverted. But God is not perverted. That is why he can openly express male and female sexuality without feeling ashamed of it. He created it and called it 'very good'... so if we have distorted Gods good things, that is our own blemish...not Gods.

look my dear, i can understand that the blood of the period is unclean, and if a drop of that blood touches anything it should be cleaned out, but not tosay that the woman herself is unclean, this is a type of despising to the woman to say "whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even", i can't accept that, i can't shake hand with my mother while her period or i'll be unclean, and to say "verything that she lieth upon in her impurity shall be unclean: everything also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean" and "And whosoever toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even, And whosoever toucheth anything that she sitteth upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even" so how she could sleep if the bed will be unclean, don't you see that a type of Insult and humiliation to women, what's wrong she did, it's a nature that the god makes her like that and then he said that she is unclean and who touches her is unclean and anything she sets on is unclean, why?? if he said about the blood itself i can understand that but he's taking about the women not the blood

Well those rules were only directed to Jews under the mosaic law covenant. We understand that when the womb was open, it was bringing forth more sinful people into the world. It is really Gods feeling toward sin that made the menstruation 'unclean'
All sinful mankind, men and women, are unclean in Gods eyes. And this law about menstruation was to highlight that sin. Gods command to Adam and Eve was to 'go forth and multiply'...but they didnt begin to do that until after they had sinned. So the womb of mankind was corrupted and every child born came forth in an imperfect and unclean state. The law highlighted the need for a savior from the unclean state.

You should know that with the end of the Mosaic law, christians did not carry forth the laws surrounding menstruation because God had cleansed mankind by Christs blood.


so Matthan in Matthew isn't Matthat in Luke?

also there's still that how when Matthew counts the number of fathers from the the Babylon exiling till the Jesus he said they were 14 although that they are 13?
One suggestion as to how they may be counted is as follows: By taking Abraham to David, 14 names, then using David as the starting name for the second 14, with Josiah as the last.

And you have to consider that luke and matthew are tracing different lines. Luke traced the line through David’s son Nathan, and Matthew traced the line through Davids son Solomon. So they do not have to be exactly the same.


so you said that the Jewish audience would tell Matthew the names of the people, so here the source of the information is the Jews although that it should be the god, so the Jews are who told Matthew the names, so it's not the word of god, it's word of Jews, do you get my point?

no, thats not what I said. Matthew would have written his list from available records which were, at that time, located in Jerusalem. What I was saying was that it was not necessary for him to list every name because the jews knew the important names that would prove ones ancestry. We have the example of Ezra the priest, in proving his priestly lineage, at Ezra 7:1-5, omitted several names contained in the listing of the priestly line at 1 Chronicles 6:1-15. So this shows that the Jews knew their ancestry very well and it was not essential to name every single ancestor.

approved as what? as a prophet, son, Messiah?

God said 'This is my 'son' the beloved' So God approved Jesus as his Son. he was a prophet, but he was MORE then a prophet. He was originally an angel in heaven who had been given the responsibility to be the one who God would use to save mankind.

He is the Messiah, the annointed of God. And Jesus also identified himself as the Messiah by the works that he performed in harmony with prophecy. Jesus raised people from the dead, he cured the sick, he fed the hungry, he walked on water... all these miracles he performed were evidence that he was one God promised to send. And with Gods own verbal declaration, we can be absolutely confident that he was.

regarding to the head covering, you have a point of view of understanding the verses and i have an opposite point of view

Yes, but hopefully you will understand why the Christian position is that women are not required to always were a head covering.

We do not take a lead role, a role assigned to men, in our congregations. So for that reason we have no need to show men our submission to their leadership because we already show our submission by letting them be the leaders.

Christian women respect the headship principle given by the Apostle at 1Corinthians:
11:3 "But I want YOU to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God"

Lets just say the scriptures actually did require women to always wear a headcovering to show our submission to men... then it would require men to also wear a headcovering to show their submission to Christ. And Christ would be required to wear a headcovering to show his submission to God.

I dont mean any offense to the muslim headcover, i am only trying to help you see why christians dont wear the same sort of covering under normal circumstances. :)
 
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DavyCrocket2003

Well-Known Member
Hi islam abduallah. It's nice to see you're still on this thread. I haven't followed all 50 pages of it. But I wanted to respond to your original idea of how we can find out the right religion.

How can we find the "right" religion? What is meant by "right" religion? The one religion that teaches only truth? The one religion that teaches all truth? I'm sorry, but I don't think you're going to find it. Pretty much all religions get some man made philosophy mixed in. I would say that a better question than "How can we find the right religion?" is "How can we find truth?"

The process of obtaining light and truth is universal. It is not owned by anyone or any religion. And regardless of religion, culture, or economic opportunity, any person who applies the principles of gaining truth will receive it. We must seek diligently to discover the principles and laws that govern progression and enlightenment, and we must follow them. And if we dedicate our lives to this, we will gradually pick up one truth after another, one ray of light after another. How much we learn is only limited by how faithful we are to what we receive and how anxiously we strive to learn more.

All people fall within a spectrum that ranges from a state of rapid progression, down to rapid regression. Drawing lines about any group of people and saying that they are the "right church" or the "wrong church" doesn't really make sense. What we need to be careful of, is letting other people dictate for us what we can and can't believe. We have to be willing to follow truth, wherever the search may take us. The path is uphill and difficult, but worth every step. And with each step of faith that we take, the world around us gets a little clearer; our own existence begins to come into focus. And eventually, at long last we will find what we have been looking for. "For now we see through a glass darkly; but then face to face."
 
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jelly

Active Member
my dear, i think you break your limits with me, if you know the answer of my question "i'm sure you know", let me hear your answer otherwise, keep silent with me
technology and human understanding has advanced.
under what standard will technology and human understanding cease to advance to a point where creation of an eye or brain is impossible?
you asked an incoherent question.
I don't know what you are talking about when you use the words "i'm sure you know'.
there is a comprehension issue either shared by us or by you alone.
you refuse to answer my question and I am unsure why: does Allah have a sense of humor?
 

islam abduallah

Active Member
technology and human understanding has advanced.
under what standard will technology and human understanding cease to advance to a point where creation of an eye or brain is impossible?
you asked an incoherent question.
I don't know what you are talking about when you use the words "i'm sure you know'.
there is a comprehension issue either shared by us or by you alone.
you refuse to answer my question and I am unsure why: does Allah have a sense of humor?

my question simply, who create the cells of eyes and brains, who arranged those cells to form an eye which had the ability to see?, who arranged the cells of brain and who created it? this question is outstanding before any other one, so let's finish discussing this point seriously and then we can talk about the standards and the humor as you like?,
 

jelly

Active Member
my question simply, who create the cells of eyes and brains, who arranged those cells to form an eye which had the ability to see?, who arranged the cells of brain and who created it? this question is outstanding before any other one, so let's finish discussing this point seriously and then we can talk about the standards and the humor as you like?,
according to the Qur'an Allah did the creation of the eye and the brain.
can we proceed to the question of Allah's sense of humor?
 

islam abduallah

Active Member
according to the Qur'an Allah did the creation of the eye and the brain.
can we proceed to the question of Allah's sense of humor?

oh! my god!, jelly i'm asking you about what you believe not as what the quran said????

answer those questions as ignostic do you understand now???
 
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