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The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

Thief

Rogue Theologian
There simply is no hell. For everything on earth there is a reciprocal in heaven. As of yet, I never seen anyone being burned by some type of spiritual fire for their entire lives. The law of recompense is what punishes us. In other words, we punish ourselves because of the way we treat others.

Nay.....

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.....carries over.

Picture this...
I die and go to heaven.
When I get there, everyone wants to know how it went.
They want to get to know me.

In the course of conversation, they learn who dealt to me generosity,
patience, forgiveness....
They also learn who it was that blacked my eye, and kicked me when I went down.

You will be received by my brothers in heaven, as you received me....
as many times as I have brothers.

So the second sentence of you last post may be correct.
 

mickiel

Well-Known Member
on another note, may you find yourself blessed, during this crisis


You must forgive me if I don't answer your question, sometimes I find them difficult to understand. You have a way about you that seems to want to create senarios that don't exist, and then ask questions based on things which are not reality. But anyway, I'll try again. Yes I do believe in demons. And I think your asking how would the world have been if there was no fear of God to deter evil?

I don't know.

Peace.
 

mickiel

Well-Known Member
We are the offspring of God, no doubt! We are in Gods hands, in his will, and God is serious about our future. We will make it, nothing can stop our future with God, he is NOT out to let us down. In fact, when he sent Jesus to die for us all, I knew then;

That we are destined to be with him, he gave his only Son, so that his future sons can have a path to him that cannot be broken.

Peace.
 

luvuyesua

Member
Mickiel, thank you for explaining that, I used a senario of you, spreading that nobody is unsaved, and asking you how you think it would have been? I guess I got lost in trying to explain my question, and examples. here is me simplifying it, thank you for your patience again.

1, Do you think the demons, will not burn forever or what ever time God says? they will be saved?

2, the people that deter from doing evil, to save their own spirit from hell, shouldnt worry?



peace to in abundance
 
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DavyCrocket2003

Well-Known Member
We are the offspring of God, no doubt! We are in Gods hands, in his will, and God is serious about our future. We will make it, nothing can stop our future with God, he is NOT out to let us down. In fact, when he sent Jesus to die for us all, I knew then;

That we are destined to be with him, he gave his only Son, so that his future sons can have a path to him that cannot be broken.

Peace.

Wait, Mickiel, let me get this straight. You believe that we will all "make it" regardless of our choices? So I don't believe in God doling out eternal misery because he's mad at us or anything. But I DO believe in choices. I believe that God does not remove the consequences of our choices. In fact, I believe that we cannot choose good if there is no evil choice opposing it. I mean, what does it mean that we return to heaven, if there was never any real possibility that we would fail? What reward is it to choose God over the devil when we really have no choice in the matter? Isn't that essentially being forced? I believe in a God that loves us. And because he loves us, he gives us the chance to progress and grow. This involves some choices and the very real possibility that we will choose to turn away from him. But this is the only way to prove we ARE devoted to him. What kind of love and devotion does it show to follow Jesus, when there really isn't a choice? Not much. I don't believe in a Hell of punishment and vengeance, but I do believe in a Hell of lost opportunity and poor choices.
 

Wotan

Active Member
"I don't believe in a Hell of punishment and vengeance, but I do believe in a Hell of lost opportunity and poor choices."

DWOD
 

mickiel

Well-Known Member
Wait, Mickiel, let me get this straight. You believe that we will all "make it" regardless of our choices? So I don't believe in God doling out eternal misery because he's mad at us or anything. But I DO believe in choices. I believe that God does not remove the consequences of our choices. In fact, I believe that we cannot choose good if there is no evil choice opposing it. I mean, what does it mean that we return to heaven, if there was never any real possibility that we would fail? What reward is it to choose God over the devil when we really have no choice in the matter? Isn't that essentially being forced? I believe in a God that loves us. And because he loves us, he gives us the chance to progress and grow. This involves some choices and the very real possibility that we will choose to turn away from him. But this is the only way to prove we ARE devoted to him. What kind of love and devotion does it show to follow Jesus, when there really isn't a choice? Not much. I don't believe in a Hell of punishment and vengeance, but I do believe in a Hell of lost opportunity and poor choices.


I really wish that one day you could actually hear yourself and understand what you are believing about God. You think that God is showing Love by allowing people to choose this hell you believe in.Love would never allow children to choose the wrong way, just for the sake of free choice. In Isaiah 45: 23 God swore a Holy vow by his own name, the only place in scripture he did this, that to him every kneee will bow and every tyounge will swear allegiance to him. Thats going to happen, and your interpitation of what God is like will not stop this vow.

Your hell of lost opportunity simply only exist in your mind and religion. Your religion has taught you this, your religion has your mind and belief, your religion interpits God and what he will do for you. You worship a religion that has condemned much of humanity. Your religion is your reward.

Peace.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I really wish that one day you could actually hear yourself and understand what you are believing about God. You think that God is showing Love by allowing people to choose this hell you believe in.Love would never allow children to choose the wrong way, just for the sake of free choice. In Isaiah 45: 23 God swore a Holy vow by his own name, the only place in scripture he did this, that to him every kneee will bow and every tyounge will swear allegiance to him. Thats going to happen, and your interpitation of what God is like will not stop this vow.

Your hell of lost opportunity simply only exist in your mind and religion. Your religion has taught you this, your religion has your mind and belief, your religion interpits God and what he will do for you. You worship a religion that has condemned much of humanity. Your religion is your reward.

Peace.

Still trying to avoid double edged swords?
Love can be demanding.
Don't you think God has what it takes to know who loves Him...and who doesn't?

There are people who willfully deny God.
Do you expect to sit at the Lord's table and listen to such ranting?

Or maybe, the Lord will come around the table....and hearing such denial...
will call the servants.
And the denial will be bound hand and foot and thrown into the outer darkness...for weeping and a gnashing of teeth.

Or again....you might believe frontal lobotomies?
 

mickiel

Well-Known Member
And the denial will be bound hand and foot and thrown into the outer darkness...for weeping and a gnashing of teeth.

quote]


Malachi states in 4:1 that no teeth will be left, only ashes. Chaff is ashes, worthlesss lightweight matter.

There will be no gnashing of teeth, thats just a favorite verse of hellmongers. God will burn their old bodies and give them a new one.

There is Hope for those you condemn.

Peace.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
And the denial will be bound hand and foot and thrown into the outer darkness...for weeping and a gnashing of teeth.

quote]


Malachi states in 4:1 that no teeth will be left, only ashes. Chaff is ashes, worthlesss lightweight matter.

There will be no gnashing of teeth, thats just a favorite verse of hellmongers. God will burn their old bodies and give them a new one.

There is Hope for those you condemn.

Peace.

It's not me doing the condemnation.
The parable I'm using is not my handiwork.

Your denial is noted.
 

DavyCrocket2003

Well-Known Member
I really wish that one day you could actually hear yourself and understand what you are believing about God. You think that God is showing Love by allowing people to choose this hell you believe in.Love would never allow children to choose the wrong way, just for the sake of free choice. In Isaiah 45: 23 God swore a Holy vow by his own name, the only place in scripture he did this, that to him every kneee will bow and every tyounge will swear allegiance to him. Thats going to happen, and your interpitation of what God is like will not stop this vow.

Your hell of lost opportunity simply only exist in your mind and religion. Your religion has taught you this, your religion has your mind and belief, your religion interpits God and what he will do for you. You worship a religion that has condemned much of humanity. Your religion is your reward.

Peace.
You wish I could actually hear myself? Maybe if we could just sit down and talk for awhile we could come to an understanding.

You see God as loving and merciful. Why would a loving and merciful God not save all of his children? Why would he let them wallow in misery when they could be rejoicing in paradise or whatever. Right? Wouldn't a kind and loving God let everyone partake of his Glory? Please correct me if I am mis-characterizing your position.

I guess I see the universe differently than you. There are laws governing the way the universe works. When you understand the laws, they can work to your benefit. When you are not aware of those laws, they may or may not help/hurt you. But, you cannot break a law. Take the law of Gravity for instance. Understanding it helps us do all kinds of things. But it cannot be broken. I believe that there are similar underpinning laws to the realm of spirituality as the ones in physics. I believe that by understanding these laws, and acting in a manner consistent with our desired outcome, we can become glorified beings of light. But there is no way to circumvent these laws. God is our guide, and it is true that without him, there would be no way for us. But there is still a set path. The only way to walk this path is of our own free will. There is no possible way of forcing someone along it. You can not drag someone to enlightenment. I can't do it. You can't do it. Not even God can do it. The thing is, God, specifically Jesus Christ, IS the way. When an apostle asked Jesus, "Lord, how can we know the way?" He replied "I am the way, the truth and the light. No man cometh unto the Father but by me."

God doesn't force us to heaven, not because he respects our free will, but because it is not possible. Heaven may be a place, but it is not the place that makes it heaven. It is the nature of the people who dwell there. If God forced us all to heaven, it would not change who and what we are. And the ONLY WAY he can change who and what we are, is for us to CHOOSE to allow his goodness and mercy into our souls. By our very nature, it is impossible to make us into something against our will. God does absolutely everything he can for us. The ONE THING he can't do is choose for us. If all we do is choose God, and put our faith and trust in him, he will be able to bless us with all that he has. But, if we never choose him and put our faith in him, we can never receive of his fullness...
 

mickiel

Well-Known Member
You wish I could actually hear myself? Maybe if we could just sit down and talk for awhile we could come to an understanding.

/quote]


You keep saying God " Can't" do this and God can't do that. I disagree, there is no such thing as God can't do anything, with him, all things are possible.


Salvation is not based on human will, its based on Gods will. God will use force to get his point accross to humanity, and the book of Reveleations describes that force in detail.

Peace.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Quoting Mikiel....

You keep saying God " Can't" do this and God can't do that. I disagree, there is no such thing as God can't do anything, with him, all things are possible.


Salvation is not based on human will, its based on Gods will. God will use force to get his point accross to humanity, and the book of Reveleations describes that force in detail.

Peace.[/quote]

So now you're into science fiction....Star Wars and Star Trek

"the force be with you"..or..
"you will be assimilated...resistance is futile."
 
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DavyCrocket2003

Well-Known Member
You wish I could actually hear myself? Maybe if we could just sit down and talk for awhile we could come to an understanding.

/quote]


You keep saying God " Can't" do this and God can't do that. I disagree, there is no such thing as God can't do anything, with him, all things are possible.


Salvation is not based on human will, its based on Gods will. God will use force to get his point accross to humanity, and the book of Reveleations describes that force in detail.

Peace.

I agree that at some point "Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess." At some point EVERYONE will know that Jesus is the Christ and God is our Father. But that STILL doesn't mean they will be made into glorious beings by force. That takes cooperation.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
This is just wishful thinking. It doesn't bear up under scrutiny. The verse is true but the meaning you have derived from it is not. The verse has to be understood in context for its true meaning to be revealed.

There is no question that He can do it. It will happen for those who go into the Kingdom of God. However God will not subvert free will. Those who have chosen the Kingdom of God have willingly forfeited the abilty to do evil. The ones who wish to remain evil go to Hell.[/quote]

You state as fact something that is pure assumption and belief.

i state what Jesus puts in my mouth to say.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Well, I've said it tons before, but I just can't see living for an eternity in some place called heaven, even if I get to do all the coolest stuff EVER, it would get old in eternity. As for hell, well, if it exists, at least I'll have some interesting company.

I just can't for the life of me understand how supposedly intelligent and educated people, still fall for the fallacy of religion. Wow..

You are in error. Finding people in Hell is as diificult as finding your way out.

Actually i am in the midst of reading a book titled Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. In the book the author states that there is a point of view that sees reality as what is right in front of the eyes but scientists see a different reality of molecules, atoms and elements. Scientists are aided in seeing that different reality by tools. Christians see a spiritual reality and are aided by the fact that the mind can be in contact and recognize the spirit.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I agree.
But ONLY for that person.

I disagree. It was not my concept that God existed but the Words in the Bible said so. The Bible said that God would answer my prayer. So all my experience amounts to is a confirmation that the Bible spoke the truth.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I agree that at some point "Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess." At some point EVERYONE will know that Jesus is the Christ and God is our Father. But that STILL doesn't mean they will be made into glorious beings by force. That takes cooperation.

Every knee and tongue of people that are alive.

Not all have the prospect of living forever such as those who commit the unforgivable sin. Please see Matthew 12v32; Hebrews 6vs4-6;10v26]

That is why Matt 20v28 says Jesus ransom covers 'many' and not all.
There are those on the road to destruction mentioned at Matt chap 7.
They will be part of those of Psalm [92v7] that are destroyed or annihilated forever.

So everyone alive by the end of Jesus thousand-year reign over earth will be the every knee and tongue that will confess.....
 

Misty

Well-Known Member
Every knee and tongue of people that are alive.

Not all have the prospect of living forever such as those who commit the unforgivable sin. Please see Matthew 12v32; Hebrews 6vs4-6;10v26]

That is why Matt 20v28 says Jesus ransom covers 'many' and not all.
There are those on the road to destruction mentioned at Matt chap 7.
They will be part of those of Psalm [92v7] that are destroyed or annihilated forever.

So everyone alive by the end of Jesus thousand-year reign over earth will be the every knee and tongue that will confess.....

That makes no sense to me on any level!
 

DavyCrocket2003

Well-Known Member
Every knee and tongue of people that are alive.

Not all have the prospect of living forever such as those who commit the unforgivable sin. Please see Matthew 12v32; Hebrews 6vs4-6;10v26]

That is why Matt 20v28 says Jesus ransom covers 'many' and not all.
There are those on the road to destruction mentioned at Matt chap 7.
They will be part of those of Psalm [92v7] that are destroyed or annihilated forever.

So everyone alive by the end of Jesus thousand-year reign over earth will be the every knee and tongue that will confess.....

I believe we (those of us who come to earth and live here for a while) all will be resurrected with immortal bodies.
 
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