Look friend no one is forcing you to believe so why are you even discussing God ? It's non-sensical to talk about something/someone who does not exist for you
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The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.
- Thread starter mickiel
- Start date
But why kill people if God can just force them to believe ? The reason they are killed is because they refuse to accept which is their ultimate choice. Sure God's strong persuasion will force ' some ' to their knees but not the most stubborn who refuse to repent of their own opinions. There would be no talk of repentance throughout scripture if God would not take our choice into account and simply force everyone to do as commanded. God does not want mindless Robots or he could have made us like that to start with. What is the point of giving man a Mind if he is going to stamp it out by force
? Strong persuasion is one thing - force another.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
But why kill people if God can just force them to believe ? The reason they are killed is because they refuse to accept which is their ultimate choice. Sure God's strong persuasion will force ' some ' to their knees but not the most stubborn who refuse to repent of their own opinions. There would be no talk of repentance throughout scripture if God would not take our choice into account and simply force everyone to do as commanded. God does not want mindless Robots or he could have made us like that to start with. What is the point of giving man a Mind if he is going to stamp it out by force
Rev. 5:13;" And EVERY created thing which is in Heaven and on the earth and UNDER the earth and on the Sea, and ALL things in them," will praise God and worship him, this is the ultimate destiny of EVERY created being. You just can't see this. You think I got a problem. I see it. And God will force this on humanity in a very powerful manner. He is going to stamp out the mind of mankind and give them a totally new mind.
You are just an unbeliever in that.
Peace.
ButTheCatCameBack
Active Member
Look friend no one is forcing you to believe so why are you even discussing God ? It's non-sensical to talk about something/someone who does not exist for you
Gods don't exist. Religious worshipers do. Said worshipers have an effect on the world. Other people than those people exist who do not like those effects or the ideas that inspire them. Those people have a right to examine and discuss those ideas. So no, it's non nonsensical. Though..telling people not to chat on a FORUM seems a bit nonsensical....
Starsoul
Truth
That could be followed fairly only if the nonbelievers atleast showed some respect and tolerance towards the beliefs of the believers. While non-believers regularly engage in vehement, repeated denying of the sound beliefs of the believers, themselves expecting to be respected and 'not- touched at all' over their ' rigid stance over their dis-belief' ,its just fair to wonder why they engage in a conversation about beliefs of the believers, when they do not even acknowledge the presence of God or anything related to Him..whats the point of such a conversation other than solely offering ridicule? is that intentional?
The argument proceeds to just a waste of time and looks like just another effort to trash the believers probably owing to the mental unrest some athiests /non-believers seem to be usually dealing with. Nothing else. I hope I'm wrong.
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ButTheCatCameBack
Active Member
Irrelevant to the topic on hand. And for that matter. The difference between following the social contract and showing common courtesy and respect is rather wide. Also, there's a difference between tolerating something and liking it. I tolerate religion in the US as part of our ideals to have freedom OF and FROM religion. I don't LIKE religion. Big difference.
This was already answered. It's a forum. It's a forum about religion. If the religious want to swim with the sharks and have their supernaturalism play along side the rest of the ideas in the marketplace of ideas. Expect to have them examined, critiqued, criticized, satirism and ridiculed. If that facet of reality is uncomfortable. Good because it SHOULD BE. Religion should not get a free pass.
And EVERYONE is a nonbeliever to someone else on something.
I'm going to break up your run on sentence, ok.
Yes...and? You seem to be confusing repeated vehement denial with having to be rude within that. And personally speaking I think there are times to be rude. That said. If in your book simply being blunt and repeating ones stance consistently constitutes disrespecting the so called believer. Then I question the intestinal fortitude of that.
Straw man, and in general a huge assumption on your part.
For the record, atheists do not suffer from "mental unrest."
Starsoul
Truth
you sure that its 'I' who is being uncomfortable?
And please if you have not read the codes of conduct on RF, do enlighten yourself instead of questioning the gut fortitudes of others. Your personal dislike for other's religion is an offense when it is liberally displayed. The rest of the members usually discuss ideas civilly, instead of just exhibiting lack of belief as their stagnant point.
ButTheCatCameBack
Active Member
You spent your entire post basically laying down one big GA and monumental Straw Man down on a large group of people. Expect those assumptions to be questioned.
Reread the post. It's a question. If someone's idea of what constitutes atheists and others not of someone's faith simply expressing their honesty that hey I don't believe your version of supernaturalism, in and of itself, constitutes an attacking negative expression. The problem is with that person, not with someone simply stating the honest truth that they do not believe in their supernaturalism. Too many religious people do that and thankfully there are ones who do not.
If you do not understand that difference. Please attempt to do so.
Yes , let me first agree with you that man will be given a new Mind.
But we disagree how this will come about.You say it will be forced on mankind, like it or not ! I say man will be strongly persuaded and scripture does bear this out. God showed extreme patience with Moses and did not simply zap him when he was reluctant. Same with Jonah - again God showing patience until the man agreed. Paul did need stronger persuasion but he also said to Christ :what will you have me do ? Does not sound like God had to break him against his will.
Now let us see what scripture further says 2Pet.3v9.ALL have to come to repentance to avoid perishing. Why repent if God will just Zap us with obedience regardless ? I took note of the script you quoted but please regard also the scriptures about choice and repentance. Obviously there must be something neither you nor I fully grasp if we can not come to agreement.I think all will be revealed in time if we wait on God. Do not be too hasty judging .
NeoSeeker
Searching Low & High
Look friend no one is forcing you to believe so why are you even discussing God ? It's non-sensical to talk about something/someone who does not exist for you
Who ever said that? This is the problem sometimes when someone questions dogma with someone who is sure of their faith. You are so sure, you don't want to discuss the basis of your faith with a poor lost soul. I guess it is hard to put a finger on so it's easier to brush me off, bless you.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
Who ever said that? This is the problem sometimes when someone questions dogma with someone who is sure of their faith. You are so sure, you don't want to discuss the basis of your faith with a poor lost soul. I guess it is hard to put a finger on so it's easier to brush me off, bless you.
You are not a lost soul, nobody is.
Its just that none of us have a clear picture of all this, and some of us can't admit that.
Peace.
NeoSeeker
Searching Low & High
mickiel
Well-Known Member
The odds are 3/1 Beta regards me in that light.
Best regards.
Well I agree, Beta perhaps does, its a kind of prejudgement that comes with traditional learning, and a confused view of what God wants for humans. I believe that God exist, and I view his desires to be the total rehabilitation of all of mankind, why would a being so powerful, not have a way to preserve all of his children?
And free will has nothing to do with this. I wouldnot let my children " Free Will choose the wrong path", if I held the power to stop them.
Oh and God has this Power, there are just many who believe he will not use it. Which I think is absurd!
Peace.
ButTheCatCameBack
Active Member
Desires imply intent which shows a lack of omniscience. Which does not bode well for Christianity's claims of morality. For an atheist, or at least me. It become somewhat irrelevant to discuss the moral failings of a fictional deity. But the exercise is at least fruitful in how the real live theists apply the theology to everyday life. Unfortunately often to the detriment of others. In my experience most theists either ignore the problem or don't even realize it's there.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
I disagree, desire shows emotions and goals, neither of which has anything to do with omniscience. Explain how it does.
Peace.
ButTheCatCameBack
Active Member
Then you don't know language. You made a self contradictory comment. An omniscience cannot have goals. To have a goal requires uncertainty. Not possible with omniscience.
Friend , if you gave the slightest impression of being a poor lost soul I would be the first to offer assistance :yes:Who ever said that? This is the problem sometimes when someone questions dogma with someone who is sure of their faith. You are so sure, you don't want to discuss the basis of your faith with a poor lost soul. I guess it is hard to put a finger on so it's easier to brush me off, bless you.
M ; YOU have chosen to believe what YOU think is the right way but you would not ALLOW your children the same privilege ??? In what way does that make your Offspring like yourself ???
Denying them the same rights makes you a selfrighteous , unfair , lying tyrant who originally promised to make man in his own image Gen.1v26. But now you have created them (and power over them) you would go back on your Word ??? This is typical of only one being !!!
I hope you give this some thought as to what exactly you think of God.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
M ; YOU have chosen to believe what YOU think is the right way but you would not ALLOW your children the same privilege ??? In what way does that make your Offspring like yourself ???
Denying them the same rights makes you a selfrighteous , unfair , lying tyrant who originally promised to make man in his own image Gen.1v26. But now you have created them (and power over them) you would go back on your Word ??? This is typical of only one being !!!
I hope you give this some thought as to what exactly you think of God.
My children do not think this way about me.
Its you who think this, you go too far to bring my children into this.
But such is your mentality.
Peace.