The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[Danmac]

Theif, nobody is worthy, but everybody needs his grace and forgiveness; everybody. Why should God cancel out those who need him most? Unbelievers need mercy more than believers, why you think God is not parcel to that, I just don't know.

Why do we need mercy, grace, or forgiveness. According to you there are no eternal consequences for sin. If there is no hell, we don't need God for anything. Were good without Him. According to you that is.

 

[Muffled]

How is this scientific evidence of hell? It isn't proven that anything lives in there.

It isn't. There isn't any materially living thing there.

I suppose one could make just a good a case for the sun for being a place of fire, however there is nothing that indicates the sun is involved at all. Mythically Hell is simply the entrance to the fiery center of earth however that may simply be due to the fact that people didn't know about the fiery center.

 

[Muffled]

The focus of seeking the truth ,and nothing but the truth, practicing it and feeling it to be true rather than feeling for the loop holes in it...(which were allegedly put there by human intervention ( by probably infidel jews ), [ I so wish i could go on without saying that but...truth has a way of sneeking its head up no matter how you try to supress it...:trampo:]

Any truthful religion preaches acquiring knowledge of this world and the divine religions so that man could really enlighten himself with the real purpose of knowledge. Truth is not so easily ignored for too long, no matter how tempting the lie is

So if you keep repeating the lie to yourself long enough it becomes the truth? Just because you say it is, does not make it so. I have not found a Muslim yet who can prove his claims. All I ever see is a repetition of a false concept as though it were already proven.

 

[Muffled]

The example I gave was how God holds the power to change his children. And he will use it in my view, no matter what they choose. Phil. 3:21, shows clearly that Jesus has the power to " Subject all things to himself." You just believe that Jesus would rather let humans subject themselves. Most humans are not doing that, so I believe Jesus will use his Power to subject them to himself, which is what God meant in Isaiah 45:23 when he said every knee will bow to him and every human will submit to him.

Its academic, but its just not Christian. Christians want God to place unbelievers in their hell.

But this aint about Christianity, its all about Gods desire to save all of his children.

Peace.

This is a supposition on your part. There is no question that God can mandate whatever He wishes but that does not constitute a wish to eliminate free will. However the free will of man does not put a restraint on what God can do. ie. If a man's will is not to go to Hell God is not constrained by that. However God is not going to force that person's will to make him enjoy going to Hell.

Christains do not have a Hell. I can't imagine why any Christian would want anyone to go there. People go there because of their unbelief. Our desire is for people to believe and be saved.

There is no doubt that God desires this but He will not interfere with free will.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Why do we need mercy, grace, or forgiveness. According to you there are no eternal consequences for sin. If there is no hell, we don't need God for anything. Were good without Him. According to you that is.

What was perfect Adam's consequence for sin?
What will be Satan's consequence for sin?

Can you think of anyone that was Not in need of mercy, grace or forgiveness that ended up in hell ?__________
According to Acts 2vs27,31 Jesus ended up in hell.
Not some pagan burning forever hell, but the Biblical hell being mankind's common grave until God resurrected Jesus from hell. [haides/sheol]

Isn't 'death' the consequence for sin?____ Rom 6v23
No where does it say Adam is burning forever.
Adam was from dust and ended up dust.

Isn't Satan a sinner? As a sinner Satan must pay the price for sin. Rom 6v23.

The 'death' Adam and Satan experience is 'second death' or death with no future life anywhere. According to Rev 20vs13,14 even hell [gravedom] will come to an end. When all in hell are 'delivered up' then emptied-out hell will also experience a symbolic 'second death' of no further existence.
Jesus, according to Hebrews 2v14 B, destroys Satan.
Both Adam and Satan end up in the destruction of second death.
They are punished with everlasting destruction.- 2Thess 1v9.
We, on the other hand, [Rom 6v7] being imperfect have the prospect of being 'delivered up' out of hell [gravedom -John 11vs11-14] and have the prospect of everlasting life in view.

 

[Thief]

3000+ postings and no one has considered?

If there is no hell..... then there will be no separation of souls....
the just and graceful from the others not so....graceful.

How then would heaven be better than this life?

Is it not the self seeking, and self centered that make this life a pain?

Want to spend eternity with all that corruption?

And if you do.....have you not gone to hell?

 

[Danmac]

What was perfect Adam's consequence for sin?
What will be Satan's consequence for sin?

Can you think of anyone that was Not in need of mercy, grace or forgiveness that ended up in hell ?__________
According to Acts 2vs27,31 Jesus ended up in hell.
Not some pagan burning forever hell, but the Biblical hell being mankind's common grave until God resurrected Jesus from hell. [haides/sheol]

Isn't 'death' the consequence for sin?____ Rom 6v23
No where does it say Adam is burning forever.
Adam was from dust and ended up dust.

Isn't Satan a sinner? As a sinner Satan must pay the price for sin. Rom 6v23.

The 'death' Adam and Satan experience is 'second death' or death with no future life anywhere. According to Rev 20vs13,14 even hell [gravedom] will come to an end. When all in hell are 'delivered up' then emptied-out hell will also experience a symbolic 'second death' of no further existence.
Jesus, according to Hebrews 2v14 B, destroys Satan.
Both Adam and Satan end up in the destruction of second death.
They are punished with everlasting destruction.- 2Thess 1v9.
We, on the other hand, [Rom 6v7] being imperfect have the prospect of being 'delivered up' out of hell [gravedom -John 11vs11-14] and have the prospect of everlasting life in view.

I agree with you. I did not say that we do not need mercy, grace, and forgiveness. I was asking Mickiel why we would need it if he is right , and there is no hell.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I agree with you. I did not say that we do not need mercy, grace, and forgiveness. I was asking Mickiel why we would need it if he is right , and there is no hell.

Don't hold your breath for an answer. :no:

 

[mickiel]

I agree with you. I did not say that we do not need mercy, grace, and forgiveness. I was asking Mickiel why we would need it if he is right , and there is no hell.

We need it from God for all areas of our lives that we are equally as wrong about.

Peace.

 

[Danmac]

We need it from God for all areas of our lives that we are equally as wrong about.

Peace.

Why do we need it? What are the benefits?

 

[mickiel]

Why do we need it? What are the benefits?

The same reason our children need mercy, forgiveness and grace from their parents, the benefits of that are obvious to me.

Peace.

 

[Katzpur]

Seriously, I think RF ought to establish a shrine or something to honor this thead. How many people realize that it has been going pretty much continuously for over 2 years?

 

[Beta]

Seriously, I think RF ought to establish a shrine or something to honor this thead. How many people realize that it has been going pretty much continuously for over 2 years?

I believe the length of this thread is mainly due to mickiel expanding on his own posts time and time and time again when not many other posters participated. I see nothing honourable or honest about this as we could all press our own points repeatedly thus pushing up posts :sorry1: to put a damper on it.

 

[mickiel]

I believe the length of this thread is mainly due to mickiel expanding on his own posts time and time and time again when not many other posters participated. I see nothing honourable or honest about this as we could all press our own points repeatedly thus pushing up posts :sorry1: to put a damper on it.

Why are you reading the thread?

Why are you posting on it?

Explain that to me.

Peace.

 

[Danmac]

The same reason our children need mercy, forgiveness and grace from their parents, the benefits of that are obvious to me.

Peace.

You are speaking in generalities. Be specific.

 

[Beta]

Why are you reading the thread?
Why are you posting on it?
Explain that to me.
Peace.

Friend, this is an open forum and I'm giving my opinion as you are allowed yours.
It is a well-understood fact that we don't all agree on all points as you yourself demonstrate. I am only saying what is true that you have many many times repeatedly replied to your own posts. I am not complaining but to think this requires some honour is not quite right imho :sorry1: if that offends.

 

[NeoSeeker]

Choice-- there can be no choice with God, its his way or no way! Choice is an illusion that humans believe in, with God there is only one way, his way, there is no other way possible, hes going to get his way. He is the beginning and the end, where is a choice when dealing with a being like that? He is the Author and Finisher of all things, there is no choice in that which I can see. He is all consuming, its either his way, or its just no way around him.

The ONLY way to deal with God is to serve him.

Peace.

And how do you serve a absentee God?

Theif, nobody is worthy, but everybody needs his grace and forgiveness; everybody. Why should God cancel out those who need him most? Unbelievers need mercy more than believers, why you think God is not parcel to that, I just don't know.

We need Gods power to forgive and change us.

Your belief wants him to be parcel to believers, but the bible claims God shows no partiality.

Explain that, and why it cannot save those you condemn?

Peace.

Part of the problem is viewing with certainty God as a doting Father who sits up in heaven worrying about everything we do right or wrong. Whatever the force that create the universe, it may not be into micromanaging at all. An environment was created that allows Earth bound creatures to live their lives and maybe learn something in the process before phase two, whatever that is.

The same reason our children need mercy, forgiveness and grace from their parents, the benefits of that are obvious to me.

Peace.

What exactly is to be forgiven?

 

[mickiel]

Seriously, I think RF ought to establish a shrine or something to honor this thead. How many people realize that it has been going pretty much continuously for over 2 years?

Well thank you, I didnot realize this myself.

I do my best.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

And how do you serve a absentee God?



quote]


Well in my view you don't, it falls to him to reveal himself in your life. In my studies of this phenom, God has to make a serious move into the human Consciousness, in order to equip the human with the mere ability to serve him.

And I personally don't believe he has done this that much to humans who now live.

Peace.

 

[Beta]

God has worked with enough Humans over the past 6000 years to make up the number of the ' Firstfruits ' those to be in the first resurrection at Christ's second coming. God is right on target with what he is doing ! No worries !