The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[shadze]

I Peter 3:18-20
“For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits in prison, who once were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

Bible clearly gives a time for these people. The time of Noah. I dont know about you but dont you think thats a bit long for anyone to stay alive.

 

[Muffled]

Yeah. I saw that and figured it was a typo, otherwise the argument makes no sense. Not that it makes any more sense if the word "not" was removed. I've never heard that there were two places of torment - hell and the lake of fire. It has always been my understanding that they were one and the same. Perhaps some educated Christians could clear this up?

From what I can gather reading the Norse Myths, Hel was a subterranean passageway leading to a place of fire. It was ruled over by Hel who personified it and Hel was inherently evil. Hades seems to have a similar dominon.

The lake of fire is core earth which any scientist can tell you is all fire.

A person could escape Hel provided he could get past the evil one but fire does not have a passageway that says this way is up to the surface, so a person could wander around in it forever like a person lost in a desert.

 

[Muffled]

I Peter 3:18-20
“For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits in prison, who once were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

Bible clearly gives a time for these people. The time of Noah. I dont know about you but dont you think thats a bit long for anyone to stay alive.

The term "in prison" does not necessarily denote a place. These spirits are not allowed back into physical lives because of their evil ways until the very end. However it is not all the disobediant spirits that are imprisoned. As the population grows, more and more people come back as lives become available to them. Of course that is based on the concept that God is not creating new souls. When all souls are back more people have to die so there will be spirits to fill babies bodies. If there aren't enough spirits then the babies would be born soulless - zombie babies.

 

[shadze]

The term "in prison" does not necessarily denote a place. These spirits are not allowed back into physical lives because of their evil ways until the very end. However it is not all the disobediant spirits that are imprisoned. As the population grows, more and more people come back as lives become available to them. Of course that is based on the concept that God is not creating new souls. When all souls are back more people have to die so there will be spirits to fill babies bodies. If there aren't enough spirits then the babies would be born soulless - zombie babies.

ahahahah what a load of rubbish. Actually this is what i call figurative nonsence.

He went and made proclamation to the spirits in prison, who once were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

This scripture speaks clearly of TIME AND PLACE. By saying he WENT it is clear he is going somewhere, By naming Spirits in a prison he denotes place. These Spirits were disobediant at the time of Noah so time is written here. Your Zombie babies are a joke sigh

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The 'spirits' of 1st Peter (3:19) are not disembodied humans, but as 2nd Peter (2:4,5) connects them to the wicked spirit angels (disobedient angelic sons of God -Gen 6:2,4)
that forsook their originally heavenly home (Jude6) and materialized in human form until their bodies drowned in the Flood. Thus going back to the spirit realm but not to their original heavenly home.

The place: from the Greek is Tartao'o or Tartarus. Not the Tartarus of Greek mythology (However, it is interesting that the mythological Tartarus was Not a place for humans but superhuman creatures.).
2nd Peter (2:4) connects those spirits as being delivered into chains of darkness, darkness being a condition rather than a specific place.
Paul (Eph 6:10-12) shows they use heavenly position to exercise a rule of darkness as wicked spirits. Revelation (12:9) shows those spirits (disobedient angels) are cast out of their originally heavenly home to that vicinity of the earth.

Tartarus is not the same word as hades or sheol, and by Peter showing that Jesus preached to those disobedient spirits he is also showing Jesus WENT, not while he was buried in hell, (Acts 2:27,31) but after Jesus was resurrected from hell- 1st Peter 3:18.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

That's a very complicated concept. I fail to see the point of hell if you think that everyone is going to get out of hell. Why bother with it in the first place?

The point of hell is 'what is hell'? We know Jesus was in hell (Acts 2:27:31).
What did Jesus think he would be doing while buried in hell? Jesus told us what he believed he would be doing at John (11:11). Jesus believed he would be sleeping the sleep of death (RIP). Jesus would have gotten that idea from the already written Hebrew Scriptures. King Solomon (Ecc 9:5) wrote the dead know nothing. The Psalmist also believed the dead sleep (6:5; 13:3; 115:17; 146:4). At death thoughts perish.

So why bother with hell is because that makes hell the common grave of mankind where we go because we can not stop sinning. The concept of hell being a hot place developed after the 1st century. The religious leaders kept the Bible away from the people and started using fire as scare tactics on the people presenting figurative fire as literal. 'Fire' as used in Scripture is a symbol for destruction and not eternal burning.

Since we can not resurrect oneself or another we can not get ourselves out of hell (gravedom). Since Jesus paid the price for our sins he will resurrect us.

 

[shadze]

The 'spirits' of 1st Peter (3:19) are not disembodied humans, but as 2nd Peter (2:4,5) connects them to the wicked spirit angels (disobedient angelic sons of God -Gen 6:2,4)
that forsook their originally heavenly home (Jude6) and materialized in human form until their bodies drowned in the Flood. Thus going back to the spirit realm but not to their original heavenly home.

If this was the case then Jesus SAVED 8 of them.


He went and made proclamation to the spirits in prison, who once were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water

So it is clear the person they are talking about is Christ. Who made the proclamation.
Now the fact of the matter is Peter is talking about Christ making a proclamation to imprisoned souls. Now how can angels be saved or if this is the case when did Christ do this at what time.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

In verse 20 the 8 souls were people. Noah and his family were the 8 saved by water.
see -2nd Peter 2:5

Please also note 1st Peter 3:19 is talking about 'spirits' and not 'souls'. Angels are spirit creations. Adam was a 'living soul' creation not a 'living spirit' creation according to Gen (2:7) . Deut. (4:32) Adam was created from the earth, not from the heavens as angels were. Once Adam died he became a dead soul, or as Ezekiel (18:4,20) says, the soul that sins dies. Adam from dust returned to dust. Demonic spirits returned to the spirit realm but locked away, imprisoned, from what is holy.-Jude 6.

Jesus was not preaching repentance to the spirits. 2nd Peter (2:4,5) shows they are reserved til the time of their judgment . As Jude 6 says the judgment of the great day or Jesus thousand-year day of ruling over earth. Matthew (9:29) helps us discern the demons know of a future judgment time because they ask Jesus did he come to torment them 'before' their time? Torment in scripture is connected to being chained or locked away as a jailer was called a tormentor in Bible days.- Matthew (18:30,34)
So by Jesus preaching to those demonic spirits 'after' he was resurrected showed them he was successful in keeping integrity and died faithful to God. By Jesus preaching to them showed the answer to Satan's challenge (Job 2:4) was proved wrong not only by imperfect Job but now perfect Jesus whose life could cleans us from all sins - 1st john (1:7 b) except that of Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6 which those spirits are guilty.

 

[shadze]

It is clear Jesus made a proclamation to these spirits which 8 souls were saved.
Now the proclamation and full text is absolutely clear the person who is the proclaimer.
This is Jesus. Jesus was only called jesus when he was birthed from mary. Prior to this he was not Christ . Its the relation to time in which your doctrinme fails not in explanation. I ask again when did Christ do this

 

[Beta]

I really am looking to understand God, but not this God that humans teach, but the real God of Love , Joy and Peace. Not this God of eternal hell punishing, but the God of Patience, forgiveness and Mercy. You know, the real God, not this insane lunatic that many are trying to pass God off as being. You know, this lunatic that will place humans in this eternal Pain amphlipier and punish them for billions upon trillions of untold time and on into infinity. I just can't imagine how out of control this hell fire belief has gotten. And how much these bloodthirsty christians who teach it have ruined Gods reputation.

The eternal punishing of anything, muchless a human, is a sick concept, yet many believers have swallowed it into their belief, hook, line and sinker. And THAT is evidence of just how much foolishness we will absorb.

Peace.

Friend , I am a Bible-based Christian, not a traditional one and I entirely agree with you. Traditional christianity has done great injustice to a kind, patient and fair God . They are totally disobedient to the Word of God and have consequently misunderstood scripture. Their own predictions will get them into trouble if they don't repent and change.
There is no eternal punishing in hell-fire. In Joh.3 Jesus speaks of perishing not eternal suffering. In any case he came to save the world not to condemn it. There is plenty of hope for all who are willing to believe him.

 

[mickiel]

Friend , I am a Bible-based Christian, not a traditional one and I entirely agree with you. Traditional christianity has done great injustice to a kind, patient and fair God . They are totally disobedient to the Word of God and have consequently misunderstood scripture. Their own predictions will get them into trouble if they don't repent and change.
There is no eternal punishing in hell-fire. In Joh.3 Jesus speaks of perishing not eternal suffering. In any case he came to save the world not to condemn it. There is plenty of hope for all who are willing to believe him.

I am refreshed by yet another Kindred Spirit to pass by this post.

Peace to your Journey.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It is clear Jesus made a proclamation to these spirits which 8 souls were saved.
Now the proclamation and full text is absolutely clear the person who is the proclaimer.
This is Jesus. Jesus was only called jesus when he was birthed from mary. Prior to this he was not Christ . Its the relation to time in which your doctrinme fails not in explanation. I ask again when did Christ do this

Who was in the ark? According to 1st Peter 3:20 ....God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing or being constructed, 'where in' few that is eight souls were saved by water. Who was in the ark according to verse 20?__________
How could water save or safely carry spirits in prison in the ark? Was there a prison on the ark? Peter continues (2nd Peter 2:5)... that on the ark was kept safe were: Noah and seven others: Noah, wife, 3 sons, 3 daughter-in-laws equal eight (8) souls on the ark. No mention of the disobedient spirits- Jude 6.

When did Christ do this? 'After' he was resurrected from the grave (Acts 2:27,31; Psalm 16:10) but 'before' he ascended to heaven. Jesus remained 40 days in the vicinity of the earth before going to heaven. Then 10 days later was Pentecost.

 

[mickiel]

The sick concept of eternal hell suffering has been started and fueled by christianity, a growing group that has been here for some time, scince the time of Paul. Paul said the Anti Christ was with them then, and I have began to wonder if its Christianity.

Peace.

 

[lockyfan]

Antichrist is a mixture of world rules and other things

eternal hell suffering was created by false religion.

I dont believe it, because I know it has no founding in the bible

 

[LittleNipper]

The sick concept of eternal hell suffering has been started and fueled by christianity, a growing group that has been here for some time, scince the time of Paul. Paul said the Anti Christ was with them then, and I have began to wonder if its Christianity.

Peace.

Those that would choose hell over an eternity of worship the LORD & SAVIOR are the sick ones.

 

[Zorro1227]

Those that would choose hell over an eternity of worship the LORD & SAVIOR are the sick ones.

However, if one does not believe (because you cannot choose what you believe) they cannot be sick. You cannot help what you believe in or do not believe in. I do not think anyone wakes up and decides to choose going to hell.

 

[LittleNipper]

Antichrist is a mixture of world rules and other things

eternal hell suffering was created by false religion.

I dont believe it, because I know it has no founding in the bible

JESUS said in Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.

 

[lockyfan]

There is no such thing as hell\



also yes no one wakes up and chooses to go to hell as you put it, but if they ignore the good news of hte kingdom of God (Jehovah) then you die. As the bible says people will juistt not ewant ot know or choose to not know. and that is fine it is their choice to do that, but they had better be prepared for that day that God sends his son Jesus and wipes out hte population on hte earth that wont listen.

Justl ike in Noahs day, people will be too busy and take no note and then will be taken away justl ike htep eople in Noahs day were swept away.

 

[mickiel]

There is no such thing as hell\



also yes no one wakes up and chooses to go to hell as you put it, but if they ignore the good news of hte kingdom of God (Jehovah) then you die. As the bible says people will juistt not ewant ot know or choose to not know. and that is fine it is their choice to do that, but they had better be prepared for that day that God sends his son Jesus and wipes out hte population on hte earth that wont listen.

Justl ike in Noahs day, people will be too busy and take no note and then will be taken away justl ike htep eople in Noahs day were swept away.

This is the destructive view of God that so many have. They think in terms of him as a " Punisher". A destroyer of sin, and because humanity is sinful, a destroyer of sinful humans. Gods purpose is to save all of humanity from sin, to give us life, not to destroy us.

Peace.

 

[LittleNipper]

People go to hell because that is what everyone deserves. It is only by the gift of GOD's salvation that any are saved at all. GOD sends no one to hell. Hell is the fruit of one's labor.