The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[URAVIP2ME]

The clergy class fosters a literal hellfire. They position themselves in the temple or House of Worship (2 Thess 2:3-8) showing themselves that they are God. Really: Anti-God.

 

[Muffled]

Jesus said something in Rev. 1:18 that is of intrest. He said he is the Living one, and that he will Live forever. He said that he has the Keys of Death and Hades. Hes got the Keys, the power to open and shut them. In Phil. 3:21 it states that Jesus has the Power to " Subject All things to himself." Two verses that are soaking in Universal Salvation for all of humanity.

Theres the Power right there to save everyone;

sadly certain Christians just don't believe Christ will use that Power, and really don't want him to.

Peace.

Of course He could but then He would end up with robots. Why bother? Try loving your TV set someday. If it starts talking to you personally see a psychiatrist.

 

[Muffled]

In Col. 1:20, Jesus shows his Power to " Reconcile All Things to Himself." Its like saying, " Give me the ball and I will score." There is no sin or sinner that Jesus willnot reconcile, all things, all sinners will be reconciled. In Phil. 2:10, Every knee will bow and confess to Christ. Listen, bowing and confessing, that means conversion in my book. When people bow, that means submission, when they confess, that means belief and obedience. And everyone is destined to do this, but no limited minded believer can see this. It takes an unlimited view, of an unlimited Savior to even begin to see this marvelous grace of Gods.

In 1John 2:2 Jesus is the " Propitiation" for our sins, ( our means believers) and not only for believers, but for those of the whole world, ( Meaning unbelievers). Propitiation means God will be satisfied with just Jesus sacrifice as the payment for all sin, including the sins being committed now. It means Jesus death has given EVERY human favor in Gods eyes, NOT just believers! Don't try and shortchange the meaning of Christ death. Don't be small minded and limit it. 1Tim. 2:6 shows the reah of Christ salvationous death, " He is the Ransom for ALL!"

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

I had a long argument with a homosexual Episcopalian priest who figured that he could just go on sinning because it was all covered by the blood.

This interpretation is not justified. It is reasonable to believe that the author is referrring to those believers that he is writing to and all believers in the world. This is expressed in the context of verse 1.

On the contrary, a cheapening of the death of Jesus occurs when universality is applied as though sin had nothing to do with His death. Universality relegates sin to meaninglessness instead of pointing out how horrible it is.

Small minded as in taking scripture out of context to support your own personal view? I Tim 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 who would have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth.

There are a lot of "would have" and "could have" people in this world but they are just as unsaved as those who actually refuse salvation outright.

 

[mickiel]

Why would God place humans who hated him, into an environment that would further generate that hate for him, and expect that to be Love? I don't understand that rationale at all. If God is Love, then all he does must be defined by that Love. I see no Love at all in eternally punishing humans! I don't care what you have done, how long you did it, NOBODY deserves an eternity of misery, and God cannot,in ANY manner, be excused from this.

The concept of eternal punishment is sick! Its just insane, no question about it, and yet certain believers have made room for this sickness in their belief! Then they teach Gods Love. From this sick vantage point, the perverted doctrines of belief has been born. And been spread. The true Love of our Father has been perverted and its embarrising, humilitaing, for me to have to defend against this dirty dogma.

And let me move into that.

Peace.

False religion is the true flames of hell. They fan it, keep it alive in our beliefs, they actually fuel it with their own minds, and try to get away with calling it the mind of God. The scripture states, " Let this mind be in you that is in Christ Jesus." Was hell on Christ mind? Christians have put out the most incredible lie I have ever seen a group maintain. They claim that Jesus, and the bible reference Hell more than Heaven. An incredible lie! Hell is referenced in the bible, slightly over 70 times, Heaven is referenced to over 1,700 times. A simple concordance study would bear this truth out. Yet they keep telling this outrages lie, and believing it!

This is the true nature of Christianity, it fuels itself in deception, thats how the sick concept of eternal hell suffering began.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

 

[AxisMundi]

I really am looking to understand God, but not this God that humans teach, but the real God of Love , Joy and Peace. Not this God of eternal hell punishing, but the God of Patience, forgiveness and Mercy. You know, the real God, not this insane lunatic that many are trying to pass God off as being. You know, this lunatic that will place humans in this eternal Pain amphlipier and punish them for billions upon trillions of untold time and on into infinity. I just can't imagine how out of control this hell fire belief has gotten. And how much these bloodthirsty christians who teach it have ruined Gods reputation.

The eternal punishing of anything, muchless a human, is a sick concept, yet many believers have swallowed it into their belief, hook, line and sinker. And THAT is evidence of just how much foolishness we will absorb.

Peace.

Welcome to the Theopolitical World of mainstream religion.

Power corrupts...

 

[mickiel]

Welcome to the Theopolitical World of mainstream religion.

Power corrupts...

There is no welcome to religion for me, I am destined to tear down religion, and I couldcareless about politics.

Peace.

 

[AxisMundi]

There is no welcome to religion for me, I am destined to tear down religion, and I couldcareless about politics.

Peace.

Politics are the main motivation behind much of the theopolitical nature of scripture. Creating, and more importantly, keeping, a large powerbase of adherents.

The more adherents a relgiion ahs, the more power, not only within the relgiion but within a nation, said religion/sect has.

Our current replacement Motto, "In God We Trust", was bullied past our Founding Document simply because a majority of people chose to ignore basic Constitutional Law.

 

[mickiel]

Politics are the main motivation behind much of the theopolitical nature of scripture. Creating, and more importantly, keeping, a large powerbase of adherents.

The more adherents a relgiion ahs, the more power, not only within the relgiion but within a nation, said religion/sect has.

Our current replacement Motto, "In God We Trust", was bullied past our Founding Document simply because a majority of people chose to ignore basic Constitutional Law.

Scripture has no theopolitical nature, that is just your view of it, and I disagree with it. But I agree that the more adherents to religion, the more power it has, I agree with that. And I agree with the rest you had to say.

Peace.

 

[AxisMundi]

Scripture has no theopolitical nature, that is just your view of it, and I disagree with it. But I agree that the more adherents to religion, the more power it has, I agree with that. And I agree with the rest you had to say.

Peace.

What do you think is the motivation behind the moral and sin sets (expected behavior) found in scriptures? Why do you think the bible attempts to create some ultimate authority in Jehovah as a demiurge, and passing that ultimate authority on to clergy through said deity?

 

[mickiel]

What do you think is the motivation behind the moral and sin sets (expected behavior) found in scriptures? Why do you think the bible attempts to create some ultimate authority in Jehovah as a demiurge, and passing that ultimate authority on to clergy through said deity?

I think all motivation in scripture, is the total salvation of all humans, nothingless. And I will never think, in my life, that God has passed his authority to any human. He never has, never will. There is no such creature as a human God has passed his authority to. There are humans who make those claims, but they are bogus, self motivated and self powered, and God has endorsed none of them.

Peace.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Why do you think the bible attempts to create some ultimate authority in Jehovah as a demiurge, and passing that ultimate authority on to clergy through said deity?

According to Jesus recorded words no ultimate authority was passed on to the clergy class.

Jesus pronounced many 'woes' and his reasons why against the religious leaders of his day. Mark 7:7, 13 and chapter 23 of Matthew.

The example Jesus set was one of humility by washing the feet of his apostles.
Matthew (20:26,27) the word minister is in connection to servant.

Jesus said all were 'brothers'. There was no clergy/laity class distinctions in first-century Christianity, and none [including] Jesus had a religious title before their name. No 'Reverend Jesus'.
Matthew 23:6-11.

 

[AK4]

The Egyptians called their place of punishment in the underworld, amenti. When the Greeks borrowed most of the Egyptian myths surrounding this place called amenti, they called it by the name hades.

Thomas Thayer supports Professor Stuart, Greppo's Essay, and Spineto, that: "The Amenti of the Egyptians originated the classic fables of Hades and Tartarus." (Doctrine of Eternal Punishment, Chapt. 3, P. 7).

 

[LittleNipper]

Interesting piece, but you say a person experiences this place. The scriptures never allude to any experience of anything in death. the scriptures say when youre dead youre dead. Nothing more nothing less. You dont experience or remember or think anything because youre dead. Purgatory is unscriptural too.

Psalms 6:5 - For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave [hebrew: sheol] who shall give thee thanks (8686)?

If there is no remembrance in death and when in death you are in sheol theres no room for purgatory or hell.

What this verse is saying is that once one dies, they are forgotten. Do you think of your great-great-grandfather? When was the last time you thanked him? That doesn't mean that he doesn't have thoughts of himself...

 

[mickiel]

Hell has dug itself into our consciousness. How many times have you said to yourself or others, " To hell with it!" It comes out in simple conversations or just personal thinking. " What the Hell is That', or " Go to hell man!" Just evidence of how deep this false concept has been laid.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

 

[AxisMundi]

I think all motivation in scripture, is the total salvation of all humans, nothingless. And I will never think, in my life, that God has passed his authority to any human. He never has, never will. There is no such creature as a human God has passed his authority to. There are humans who make those claims, but they are bogus, self motivated and self powered, and God has endorsed none of them.

Peace.

Agreed, exept for the fact that no god, including yours, has any ultimate authority, nor is anyone, let alone everyone, in need of "salvation".

 

[mickiel]

Agreed, exept for the fact that no god, including yours, has any ultimate authority, nor is anyone, let alone everyone, in need of "salvation".

You don't think we need salvation. Good greif, so you think life as it is is sufficent. Man, look around you, you think we are alright as we are?

I am dumfounded.

Peace.

 

[Katzpur]

According to Jesus recorded words no ultimate authority was passed on to the clergy class.

Jesus pronounced many 'woes' and his reasons why against the religious leaders of his day. Mark 7:7, 13 and chapter 23 of Matthew.

The example Jesus set was one of humility by washing the feet of his apostles.
Matthew (20:26,27) the word minister is in connection to servant.

Jesus said all were 'brothers'. There was no clergy/laity class distinctions in first-century Christianity, and none [including] Jesus had a religious title before their name. No 'Reverend Jesus'.
Matthew 23:6-11.

I totally disagree.

Jesus Christ established a Church as part of His ministry. He built it on a foundation of Prophets and Apostles, He being the "chief cornerstone."

Paul speaks of the organization of this Church in Ephesians 4:11-14, where he says, "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive..."

If I were to try to explain in modern English what Paul was saying, I would say this:

And He (Jesus Christ) appointed apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. His purpose in doing so was to perfect His followers, to minister to them and to teach them. These were to remain in place until all of us are unified in the faith and in our knowledge of the Son of God, enabling us to grow to maturity in the Lord. Otherwise, we will continue to be like children in the gospel, persuaded first one way and then another, and unable to distinguish between true and false doctrines, being subject to the teachings of those who are crafty and who desire to deceive us.

Since we have not yet become unified in our faith and knowledge of Christ and have not yet, as a body of believers, become spiritually mature, the need for prophets and apostles still exists. That in no way implies that we are not all brothers and sisters.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

What this verse is saying is that once one dies, they are forgotten. Do you think of your great-great-grandfather? When was the last time you thanked him? That doesn't mean that he doesn't have thoughts of himself...

According to Psalm 146:4 does g-g-grandfather have thoughts of himself, or at death do thoughts perish?
Jesus believed that while he was in hell (Acts 2:27,31) that he would be in the same deep sleep-like state as his friend Lazarus of John 11:11-14. RIP

Jesus knew and believed the Hebrew Scriptures. Jesus believed what King Solomon wrote at Ecc 9:5 that the dead are Not conscious of anything.
No pain, no bliss. Just not aware of anything.

Since Romans 6:7 says the dead are freed or acquitted from their sins committed before death then (except for those of Matt 12:32; Heb 6:4-6) there will be a resurrection as Acts 24:15 says. The prophet Daniel (12:2,13) looked forward to 'resurrection morning' when the sleeping dead of the ground will be awakened back to life during Jesus 1000-year rule over earth.

If we are part of the living righteous ones (other sheep) of Matthew 25:31,32;46 then we will Not die but continue to live right into Jesus Millennial Reign over earth, and be there to welcome great-great grandfather back to inherit the earthly part of God's kingdom unless he is going to rule with Jesus in the heavens as part of the (little flock) that will rule over earth (John 10:16; Luke 12:32) as Revelation 5:9,10 says.

 

[mickiel]

Hell is mentioned a little over 70 times in the bible, Heaven is mentioned over 1700 times, but the Christians keep lying and teaching that hell is mentioned more times than Heaven.

Peace.

 

[AxisMundi]

You don't think we need salvation. Good greif, so you think life as it is is sufficent. Man, look around you, you think we are alright as we are?

I am dumfounded.

Peace.

"Salvation" is a purely theopolitical control device. Nothing more, nothing less.

Man existed for over a hundred thousand years quite nicely before "salvation" hit the scene, and have since your relgiion was founded as well.