The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[tumbleweed41]

How so? What is more humane? To allow a mortally wounded creature to suffer or to euthanize it and end its misery? You see death as a terrible thing. Because you are afraid of it. But when the only two options are to die a slow horrible death, or end it quickly, which will you choose?

I see now, the parent should just "snuff out" the life of the disobedient child.

If I may, I go along with Enoch07 on this one, God does not make the wicked suffer forever. God is merciful! It simply means that forever they will never again come to life.

Even Sodom 's fires went out.

Yes, you are right. Even Sodoms fires went out....after everyone was dead

 

[mickiel]

There is no reason why a God of Life, would want or " Will Death" to any human. 2Pet. 3:9," The Lord is not slow about " His PROMISE", as some are counting slackful promises, but is Patient toward YOU, not " Willing" ( or Wishing) for ANY to perish, but for ALL to come to Repentance." His stated Promise is for ALL to be saved. Its his Will, because he has not left human salvation up to human will, but its HIS WILL for all to be saved. God has NOT willed, or planned on, or will ALLOW, any human to perish, but " ALL" to come into HIS expressed will for humanity.

Its not about what he will do with what WE think are " Doomed Humans", because we, in our ignorance, are trying to figure out what he will do with the humans that WE think are doomed. Because WE think they are doomed, so we are blind to Gods Salvation, and look to limit it with OUR limited point of view. But its not up to us, its HIS will, his Desire, HIS wish, thast is the determining factor.

We are " Counting" ways to doom each other, summing up ways that humans are condemned, as if we control Gods Salvation. So its really " Human Will" for certain humans to be lost, not Gods desire. So then what is Gods expressed desire, ( or will for humanity), 1Tim. 2:3;" This is GOOD and ACCEPTABLE in the sight of God our Savior, who DESIRES ALL men to be saved and come to know this simple truth." This is Gods expressed desire, its his will, so the real question is can God GET what he wants?

Its unacceptable to many humans, most of which are believers, that God will Save ALL. But its Acceptable to God.

The question is then who is going to get their way? God, or human desires.

Peace.

 

[Enoch07]

That's another load of bull. He does not wish to damn anyone to hell, but he cannot force us to accept Him either. And as promised in revelation any who deny Him then will be tossed into the lake of fire. Its called free will. You have to chose to accept God's love, or you can deny Him like atheist do for example. Sad day when people who have no clue what the Bible says try to teach it.

 

[raybo]

I really am looking to understand God, but not this God that humans teach, but the real God of Love , Joy and Peace. Not this God of eternal hell punishing, but the God of Patience, forgiveness and Mercy. You know, the real God, not this insane lunatic that many are trying to pass God off as being. You know, this lunatic that will place humans in this eternal Pain amphlipier and punish them for billions upon trillions of untold time and on into infinity. I just can't imagine how out of control this hell fire belief has gotten. And how much these bloodthirsty Christians who teach it have ruined Gods reputation.

The eternal punishing of anything, much less a human, is a sick concept, yet many believers have swallowed it into their belief, hook, line and sinker. And THAT is evidence of just how much foolishness we will absorb.

Peace.

mickiel,

This above from your original post. Revealing things in the first attention, usually and most always... does not reveal the truth behind them. Quite a lengthy thread and i managed only to catch a few replies.

Here's the truth!

Hell was created by the Dark Lord we call Satan. He is the former Archangel Satanael. Each and every chastisement that has been written, that mankind will be subject to, was exercised by that one. Why! Those who live by his rules in his kingdom will subject to his laws and the punishment he has endorsed.

Because of that one, man must face death. This is where the worms, snakes and bugs weave their way through your carcass. Fire, he introduced to Adam and Eve in the Books of Adam and Eve before their resting place or place where they lived in the Cave of Treasures. He granted them a home consumed by fire as an alternative to the cave where they had been so distraught and apart from the former light in Paradise. Let me tell you it just doesn't end. Read the Chastisements of Mary and you will see how the Kingdom of Satan treats her people.

Again, this will not be seen from the first attention. The deception here is how much time mankind has been kept blaming the Creator in this... while Satan continues to deceive.

I doubt if you will even respond to this... in any favorable way. You too being convinced of the lie. The deception is rooted deep in most all of us. It truly takes years to undue this stuff. In time what i call layers and layers of acceptance replaces the deceptions. Good luck to you!

ray

 

[mickiel]

That's another load of bull. He does not wish to damn anyone to hell, but he cannot force us to accept Him either. And as promised in revelation any who deny Him then will be tossed into the lake of fire. Its called free will. You have to chose to accept God's love, or you can deny Him like atheist do for example. Sad day when people who have no clue what the Bible says try to teach it.

Force, force? Its not force, its called opening the human heart to the truth, transforming the human mind, drawing the human to him, changing the human understanding,giving them a totally different mindset, none of which a human can do on their own, or using their own will. Salvation is not a result of human will or choice, its a result of Gods will and Jesus sacrifice, nothingless than those two things. Human will or choice has nothing to do with salvation, its a free gift from God.

And you can't take credit for it.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

mickiel,

I doubt if you will even respond to this... in any favorable way. You too being convinced of the lie. The deception is rooted deep in most all of us. It truly takes years to undue this stuff. In time what i call layers and layers of acceptance replaces the deceptions. Good luck to you!

ray

I can respond, because my response is not based on your doubts. There is no such thing as eternal hell suffering, its just a deeply rooted lie in human belief. God does not need it, we don't need it, only humans who believe it need it. They need it to support their own desires, its what " They" want God to do. They want the suffering, they desire the suffering, they NEED the suffering, so they believe God will do it.

They got their popcorn, they have their marshmellows, and their waiting for the fire, so they can get off on the extended misery of others. And the sad thing is, they think God is like that too.

Peace.

 

[raybo]

I can respond, because my response is not based on your doubts. There is no such thing as eternal hell suffering, its just a deeply rooted lie in human belief. God does not need it, we don't need it, only humans who believe it need it. They need it to support their own desires, its what " They" want God to do. They want the suffering, they desire the suffering, they NEED the suffering, so they believe God will do it.

They got their popcorn, they have their marshmallows, and their waiting for the fire, so they can get off on the extended misery of others. And the sad thing is, they think God is like that too.

Peace.

mickieI,

I see, you are unable or unwilling to consider my post. It is much as i expected. Much time is wasted on this stuff... one day you might consider more.

Only... the post perhaps... would loose it's edge.

Yet, the path must still be traveled!

 

[mickiel]

mickieI,

I see, you are unable or unwilling to consider my post. It is much as i expected. Much time is wasted on this stuff... one day you might consider more.

Only... the post perhaps... would loose it's edge.

Yet, the path must still be traveled!

Oh no I consider it, and consider it a waste of belief. satan was never an "Arch-angel", he was never good, he was a killer from his creation, Jesus said he was a liar from his beginning, and I consider what Jesus said, to be of more value than what you say. The book of Isaiah states that satan was created to destroy, that is his nature, its all he knows to do. satan didnot create hell, there is no such thing as hell torture, hell just means the grave. And the bible plainly states that both hell and satan will be thrown into the lake of fire, which means God is going to destroy both satan and death.

This is what I consider.

Peace.

 

[raybo]

Mickiel,

Here are other views:

Jude 9-10 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" Yet these people speak abusively against whatever they do not understand... NIV

Isaiah 14:12 describes the fall of the devil from his status as an archangel, and it says this being “didst weaken the nations.” The Emphasized Bible translates that, “O crusher of nations.” The American Standard Version says he “didst lay low the nations.” The Jerusalem Bible uses the phrase “enslaved the nations.”

In Daniel’s prophecy, Gabriel is recorded as saying, “But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia” (Daniel 10:13, New King James Version).
This “prince of the kingdom of Persia” is the devil. Only he has such power to be able to fight against Gabriel! The Bible shows that Satan had been Lucifer, another of those three great and powerful archangels, before he rebelled and became God’s adversary. He still has tremendous power. When he fought Gabriel, Gabriel had to call on another archangel, Michael, to come and help him.

The common ground here... is that what you share about him is true. What you fail to see is that Satanel placed before the host of the heavens a division. He claimed to be able to rule in a way that was above or beyond God's commands and decree's. Those who side with him share his fate. So what ever he has proclaimed in his kingdom, God will comply with and consequences be damned. Only there is more to this.

 

[mickiel]

Mickiel,

Here are other views:
NIV

Isaiah 14:12 describes the fall of the devil from his status as an archangel, and it says this being “didst weaken the nations.” The Emphasized Bible translates that, “O crusher of nations.” The American Standard Version says he “didst lay low the nations.” The Jerusalem Bible uses the phrase “enslaved the nations.”
.

I disagree with those views. Isaiah 14:16 clearly shows the being discussed here in these verses is " A Man", not an angel. Notice vs. 16 then, " Those who see you will think to themselves, is this " The Man" who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms?" It is perhaps going to be some kind of King or leader who will rise to power in the middle east. So this joker could be anyone, but it is a man for sure, not this " Lucifer" that you think it is.

Lucifer is not the devil anyway, thats just what you believe and have been taught. Lucifer is a mythical creature, the devil is real, and they are not the same. There is no such thing as a " Good Angel turning bad", that also is a myth. Spiritual beings are set into their characther at creation, and cannot change, just as God willnot change.

Peace.

 

[raybo]

As in the Dead Sea scrolls, Belial is identified as being the Prince of Darkness[2], and as being the leader of the hosts of evil, and Michael the Archangel, captain of the heavenly hosts and the champion of the nation of Israel, is his enemy. A reflection in this belief can be found in the New Testament, such as in Rev. 12:7. This tradition is similarly found in the apocryphal Gospel of Bartholomew, where Beliar is explicitly identified with Satan, and furthermore expands on his name of Satanael(a name we encounter in 2 Enoch), as well as his previous angelic functions[3].

So many names does give an account of his power over all manner of things. Do you not agree!

 

[mickiel]

As in the Dead Sea scrolls, Belial is identified as being the Prince of Darkness[2], and as being the leader of the hosts of evil, and Michael the Archangel, captain of the heavenly hosts and the champion of the nation of Israel, is his enemy. A reflection in this belief can be found in the New Testament, such as in Rev. 12:7. This tradition is similarly found in the apocryphal Gospel of Bartholomew, where Beliar is explicitly identified with Satan, and furthermore expands on his name of Satanael(a name we encounter in 2 Enoch), as well as his previous angelic functions[3].

So many names does give an account of his power over all manner of things. Do you not agree!

I agree that the devil is powerful , because God created him to be powerful. But I hold no intrest in Enoch, the gospel of barthholomew, beliar or satanel. Those things are of no intrest to me. They are not for me, I am not attracted to such things as that, although I hold a little intrest in some of the dead sea scrolls, particulary the book of Isaiah.

Peace.

 

[raybo]

Spiritual beings are set into their characther at creation, and cannot change, just as God will not change.

Peace.

More views to consider:

Visitations by angels were widely reported among kabbalists. The mystic-legalist Joseph Caro wrote of his maggid, the genius of the Mishna, who visited him in the night and taught him Torah ha-Sod, the esoteric Torah.
The main contribution of Chasidic thought to angelology was a distinctly anthropocentric, even psychological, interpretation of angelic nature. Specifically, early Chasidic masters held that ephemeral angels were the direct result of human action. Goodly deeds created good angels, destructive behavior created destructive angels, etc. In other words, most angels are ontologically the creation, really a byproduct, of humans rather than God! Thus the balance between the angelic and demonic forces in the universe is a direct result of human decision and action.

mickiel,


And it goes on! In the same way that hell and damnation is attributed to God creator, do you not agree... it could be attributed to the antithesis of that.

 

[mickiel]

More views to consider:

Visitations by angels were widely reported among kabbalists. The mystic-legalist Joseph Caro wrote of his maggid, the genius of the Mishna, who visited him in the night and taught him Torah ha-Sod, the esoteric Torah.
The main contribution of Chasidic thought to angelology was a distinctly anthropocentric, even psychological, interpretation of angelic nature. Specifically, early Chasidic masters held that ephemeral angels were the direct result of human action. Goodly deeds created good angels, destructive behavior created destructive angels, etc. In other words, most angels are ontologically the creation, really a byproduct, of humans rather than God! Thus the balance between the angelic and demonic forces in the universe is a direct result of human decision and action.

mickiel,


And it goes on! In the same way that hell and damnation is attributed to God creator, do you not agree... it could be attributed to the antithesis of that.

I disagree totally. It seems your intrest is in some kind of new age mystical mixture of the biblical story , addmixed with the mystics. In my view, such a mixture is nuclear and combust toward nowhere meaningful. Unless one finds meaning in surreal worlds, usually because they are not relevant in the real world. Hell is simply a hole in the ground, a place to put dead bodys. Thats what hell is. And notice how I can use simple terminology to explain myself, and give a simple meaning to what I am saying, so one need not be a theologian in order to understand me.

Peace.

 

[starlite]

Sad day when people who have no clue what the Bible says try to teach it.

A release from hell? What does the Bible really say? Some Bible translations create confusion by rendering two different Greek words-Ge`enna and Hai`des- as just the one word,”hell.” In the Bible, the term Ge`enna refers to total destruction, without hope of a resurrection. By contrast, those in Hai`des, or Hades do have the hope of being resurrected. Thus, after Jesus died and was raised up, the apostle Peter assured his audience that Jesus “was not left in hell.” (Acts 2:27,31,32; Psalm 16:10; King James Version) The word translated “hell” in this verse is the Greek word Hai`des. Jesus did not go to some fiery place. Hades, or “hell,” was the grave. But Jesus is not the only one whom God releases from Hades. In connection with the resurrection, the Bible says: “Death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them.” (Revelation 20:13,14, KJ) Emptying “hell” will mean restoring to life all those whom God judges worthy of a resurrection. (John 5:28,29; Acts 24:15) What a marvelous hope for the future-seeing our dead loved ones brought back from the grave. The God, who “is” love, will do this. (1John 4:8; Hebrews 6:18)

 

[bluZero]

A release from hell? What does the Bible really say? Some Bible translations create confusion by rendering two different Greek words-Ge`enna and Hai`des- as just the one word,”hell.” In the Bible, the term Ge`enna refers to total destruction, without hope of a resurrection. By contrast, those in Hai`des, or Hades do have the hope of being resurrected. Thus, after Jesus died and was raised up, the apostle Peter assured his audience that Jesus “was not left in hell.” (Acts 2:27,31,32; Psalm 16:10; King James Version) The word translated “hell” in this verse is the Greek word Hai`des. Jesus did not go to some fiery place. Hades, or “hell,” was the grave. But Jesus is not the only one whom God releases from Hades. In connection with the resurrection, the Bible says: “Death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them.” (Revelation 20:13,14, KJ) Emptying “hell” will mean restoring to life all those whom God judges worthy of a resurrection. (John 5:28,29; Acts 24:15) What a marvelous hope for the future-seeing our dead loved ones brought back from the grave. The God, who “is” love, will do this. (1John 4:8; Hebrews 6:18)

Since you brought that up, I could never be able to understand this verse. Do you have an answer, though you may be unto something. (1Cor 5:5) To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

P.S. I just did a search and found out that verse pertains to the guy who had sex with his father's wife was excommunicated, and there was hope that he would come to repentance for the salvation of his spirit before SATAN KILLED HIM. I had my say on what hell is!

 

[starlite]

Since you brought that up, I could never be able to understand this verse. Do you have an answer, though you may be unto something. (1Cor 5:5) To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Hope this helps......

In instructing the congregation at Corinth as to the action to take toward a member of the congregation who had wickedly been committing incest with the wife of his father, the apostle Paul wrote: “Hand such a man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh.” (1Co 5:5) This was a command to expel the man from the congregation, cutting off all fellowship with him. (1Co 5:13) Turning him over to Satan would put him out of the congregation and into the world over which Satan is the god and ruler. Like “a little leaven” in “the whole lump” of dough, this man was “the flesh,” or fleshly element inside the congregation; and by removing this incestuous man, the spiritually minded congregation would destroy “the flesh” from the midst of it. (1Co 5:6, 7) Similarly, Paul handed Hymenaeus and Alexander over to Satan, because they had thrust aside faith and a good conscience and had experienced shipwreck concerning their faith.—1Ti 1:20.

 

[bluZero]

Hope this helps......

In instructing the congregation at Corinth as to the action to take toward a member of the congregation who had wickedly been committing incest with the wife of his father, the apostle Paul wrote: “Hand such a man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh.” (1Co 5:5) This was a command to expel the man from the congregation, cutting off all fellowship with him. (1Co 5:13) Turning him over to Satan would put him out of the congregation and into the world over which Satan is the god and ruler. Like “a little leaven” in “the whole lump” of dough, this man was “the flesh,” or fleshly element inside the congregation; and by removing this incestuous man, the spiritually minded congregation would destroy “the flesh” from the midst of it. (1Co 5:6, 7) Similarly, Paul handed Hymenaeus and Alexander over to Satan, because they had thrust aside faith and a good conscience and had experienced shipwreck concerning their faith.—1Ti 1:20.

Sounds good, Thank you!

 

[Muffled]

A release from hell? What does the Bible really say? Some Bible translations create confusion by rendering two different Greek words-Ge`enna and Hai`des- as just the one word,”hell.” In the Bible, the term Ge`enna refers to total destruction, without hope of a resurrection. By contrast, those in Hai`des, or Hades do have the hope of being resurrected. Thus, after Jesus died and was raised up, the apostle Peter assured his audience that Jesus “was not left in hell.” (Acts 2:27,31,32; Psalm 16:10; King James Version) The word translated “hell” in this verse is the Greek word Hai`des. Jesus did not go to some fiery place. Hades, or “hell,” was the grave. But Jesus is not the only one whom God releases from Hades. In connection with the resurrection, the Bible says: “Death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them.” (Revelation 20:13,14, KJ) Emptying “hell” will mean restoring to life all those whom God judges worthy of a resurrection. (John 5:28,29; Acts 24:15) What a marvelous hope for the future-seeing our dead loved ones brought back from the grave. The God, who “is” love, will do this. (1John 4:8; Hebrews 6:18)

The English word "hell" probably comes from the Norse god Hel and the place that was her domain. That place was underground and included both fiery and non-fiery areas. Hel was a very evil god and shows a lot of similarities to Satan. He/She was transmorphic because she was a shapeshifter. It would definitely have been within her power to change herself into something serpentine to harrass Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.

The full text does not indicate that but rather that a decision is made whether they should be released or returned: Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire. 15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[mickiel]

The nature of God is expressed in Lamentations 3:31-32;" For the Lord willnot " Reject Forever", for if he causes greif, then he will have compassion, according to his abudant Lovingkindness." There is no eternal misery that God would cause or even allow to exist. God does reject things that humans do, but he willnot reject the humans themselves in eternity, he will eventually forgive and have compassion, and thats just how God is.

Now, obviously, this is not how some believers in God are, because they want God to punish forever and reject people, they don't want God to forgive. And this is the root reason why believers in eternal punishing hold so ardently to it.

Peace.