The Sum of Awe's search for love and confidence

[PoetPhilosopher]

Women appreciate it when someone is being real.

I agree.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

To me it sounds like you're trying to figure out who you should be in order to attract women. That's not going to work.

I more or less concur.

I know how cliché' this sounds but the only advice I can give you on this is to be yourself, mainly because it's the only act that you're ever going to be able to pull off convincingly.

Fooling some women is, in my opinion, near impossible. For a man, at least.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Women appreciate it when someone is being real.

The strange thing is, I can't even decide if I've been being real or not. I'm never more nicer than I am willing to be, if I don't have the energy to be nice I will get quiet. At the same time I don't express my anger, and I tend to let things go, and even after incidents that should and do frustrate me I choose to keep being kind. Would you say that is fake?

I've never lied about a good deed I've done, although I've done good deeds to look good admittedly but it was never anything I went out of my way for.

 

[Quagmire]

The reason I will never end up in a relationship it seems is because I'm a 'nice guy'. I don't know how to undo this part of my personality, I always thought I was so strong for being able to have so much patience and to maintain my kindness in spite of whatever bothers me. Apparently that's not how girls see it, most sources say.

What more can I do? I don't get angry, I choose not to complain, I choose not to brag. I choose to be what i see as moral, and I put so much effort into maintaining that when building my personality. I chose that to be my strongest trait.

Admittedly I don't know how to stick up for myself. Whenever someone yells at me I get quiet and nervous. Maybe I could work on that at least, but often I am convinced I am the one to blame in those situations, and I'm bad at thinking of ways to defend myself.

I think you should definitely work on that, Sum. For yourself mainly, but also in regards to what we're talking about: if a woman sees that you can't stand up for yourself she's probably going to assume you won't be able to stand up for her either. That's a red flag.

Just remember that this, "Whenever someone yells at me I get quiet and nervous" is a learned response. It doesn't say anything about who you actually are, and it can be unlearned.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

The strange thing is, I can't even decide if I've been being real or not. I'm never more nicer than I am willing to be, if I don't have the energy to be nice I will get quiet. At the same time I don't express my anger, and I tend to let things go, and even after incidents that should and do frustrate me I choose to keep being kind. Would you say that is fake?

For me, I'd say it's possible that it is, or you may just be shy - but you can really only answer that by looking deep inside yourself, and possibly meditating upon the question.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I think you should definitely work on that, Sum. For yourself mainly, but also in regards to what we're talking about: if a woman sees that you can't stand up for yourself she's probably going to assume you won't be able to stand up for her either. That's a red flag.

Some women definitely see things like that.

Although, I'd say we're living in the 21st century too, where feminine straight men are getting to be quite popular, about as popular as masculine straight men. Just sayin'.

But if you meet a more traditional woman... she will definitely want that.

 

[Quagmire]

The strange thing is, I can't even decide if I've been being real or not.

Lol! Yeah man, been there. I can remember a few times when I was with someone and I would actually be thinking to myself, " Dude, stop strategizing. Stop trying to figure out who you should be or what she wants hear. JUST BE SPONTAINEOUS (for **** sake)" . No good. It was like I forgot how.

I'm never more nicer than I am willing to be, if I don't have the energy to be nice I will get quiet. At the same time I don't express my anger, and I tend to let things go, and even after incidents that should and do frustrate me I choose to keep being kind. Would you say that is fake?

I don't know, I would say it depends on your motives. And I don't know if "fake" is the right word. One rule of thumb: the difference between a nice guy and a sucker is that a nice guy stops being a nice guy when he starts feeling like a sucker.

I've never lied about a good deed I've done, although I've done good deeds to look good admittedly but it was never anything I went out of my way for.

It isn't about lying vs telling the truth. It also isn't about anything you've done or haven't done in the past. It's about being real and genuine in the moment.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I'm also not certain that @The Sum of Awe is being too nice to women, but rather too formal. In some cases, being too formal, without feeling the room, can be worse than being too nice.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I'm also not certain that @The Sum of Awe is being too nice to women, but rather too formal. In some cases, being too formal, without feeling the room, can be worse than being too nice.

What would be the difference? What makes you say that? And why would that be worse?

 

[Quagmire]

I think you should definitely work on that, Sum. For yourself mainly, but also in regards to what we're talking about: if a woman sees that you can't stand up for yourself she's probably going to assume you won't be able to stand up for her either. That's a red flag.

Just remember that this, "Whenever someone yells at me I get quiet and nervous" is a learned response. It doesn't say anything about who you actually are, and it can be unlearned.

In that vein: Unlearn

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

What would be the difference? What makes you say that? And why would that be worse?

I'll give a couple of different examples.

You go on a date, talk traditional subjects with a woman, get her car door for her, etc. A lot of women would be happy with that. But still some others, about half, could very well be complaining to their friends about the date later, and disappointed.

Sometimes, you just have to keep things interesting. And that doesn't mean tell all your dates a fart joke, or anything like that. It just goes back to the suggestion of "being real".

Another thing is that, I don't think that over-niceness is necessarily a problem when it comes to men, with the females from the female circles I've been in. They don't say "That man was too nice," they say things like "He was awkward", "He acted like a momma's boy", "He says he's a nice guy, but he was acting mental". Or even "He's never assertive".

So looking at every possibility, I'm trying to freethink that niceness may not be the problem.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

What would be the difference?

To be nice is to be pleasant, benevolent, and generous.

To be formal is to act classy, be reserved.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

To be nice is to be pleasant, benevolent, and generous.

To be formal is to act classy, be reserved.

I would say I say I don't think I'd be like that on a date. I feel like it's just in my nature that I feel I'm too nice. I say 'thank you' a lot, I used to apologize a lot but I have stopped because I didn't want it to become empty now I seldom apologize unless I truly need to, I avoid talking negatively about others. There is a time I remember when one of my coworkers said something rudely and my friend said "she didn't have to snap at you about that" but I decided to come at it from an 'understanding' approach and said 'I understand why she said that' but now I realize I could've also said 'but she could've said it nicer'. And I also wait for others to cut through first in tight spaces, I refuse to look at women's behinds when they're unsuspecting... That's the examples I can think of for now.

I think I might be mentally exaggerating my niceness, I'm not entirely sure. I'll keep an eye out for it. Definitely need to learn to stick up for myself though, but most of the time I don't see a need to and this last time I was in the wrong and I couldn't really ask my boss to not be so rude about it, that wouldn't feel right. First of all she's my boss I can't give any demands like that (even asking her to say it nicely would feel like a demand and probably p- her off more) and two what is she to do differently? Fake smile and fake nice? If she's annoyed she's annoyed I should've just reacted different. Right?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Speaking of thanking too much, lol...

I do want to thank you all for being here still, 7 pages later, reading my venting and responding with helpful advices. You guys are really helping me figure myself out. I feel like this puzzle is going to be solved a lot faster with your guys's helps. I really appreciate it. It's nice to have people who listen and are willing to give thoughtful advice, not being afraid to tell me where the booger in my nose might be

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I would say I say I don't think I'd be like that on a date. I feel like it's just in my nature that I feel I'm too nice. I say 'thank you' a lot, I used to apologize a lot but I have stopped because I didn't want it to become empty now I seldom apologize unless I truly need to, I avoid talking negatively about others.

To me, that's being formal.

I refuse to look at women's behinds when they're unsuspecting...

That's... formal...

However, it is wise not to look at other women too much when on a date with a woman.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

For me, niceness is about going the extra mile, thinking outside the box, wanting to touch the other straight to the soul. And sacrificing a part of yourself just for the happiness of another person.

Formality is all about tradition, giving a girl flowers because it's a gesture some men do, saying "please" and "thank you" because your family taught you.

 

[JustGeorge]

The strange thing is, I can't even decide if I've been being real or not. I'm never more nicer than I am willing to be, if I don't have the energy to be nice I will get quiet. At the same time I don't express my anger, and I tend to let things go, and even after incidents that should and do frustrate me I choose to keep being kind. Would you say that is fake?

I've never lied about a good deed I've done, although I've done good deeds to look good admittedly but it was never anything I went out of my way for.

When it comes to being real, I would say acting the same with another as you would if they weren't there. There are some obvious exceptions to that, but as a generalization, someone who's looking to be in a relationship is going to want to learn who that person is, not a picture they're trying to present.

If you don't have the energy to be nice, don't be nice. There are a lot of complex attitudes. If someone is shutting down in situations, it often puts up a wall. People notice that wall going up, and unless they have a previous attachment to you that would make them ask what's going on, they're going to obey that wall, and stay away.

A person you're wanting to date isn't close to you yet. They're going to see the wall, and stay out.

I'll give a couple of different examples.

You go on a date, talk traditional subjects with a woman, get her car door for her, etc. A lot of women would be happy with that. But still some others, about half, could very well be complaining to their friends about the date later, and disappointed.

Sometimes, you just have to keep things interesting. And that doesn't mean tell all your dates a fart joke, or anything like that. It just goes back to the suggestion of "being real".

Another thing is that, I don't think that over-niceness is necessarily a problem when it comes to men, with the females from the female circles I've been in. They don't say "That man was too nice," they say things like "He was awkward", "He acted like a momma's boy", "He says he's a nice guy, but he was acting mental". Or even "He's never assertive".

So looking at every possibility, I'm trying to freethink that niceness may not be the problem.

Hey, what's wrong with fart jokes?

(I might be a weird woman...)

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Hey, what's wrong with fart jokes?

(I might be a weird woman...)

A certain bear will hate me for this joke but...

Q: Did you hear about the bear that slept through the winter without farting?

A: He was like a firework come spring.

 

[Quagmire]

A certain bear will hate me for this joke but...

Q: Did you hear about the bear that slept through the winter without farting?

A: He was like a firework come spring.

Or,

Q: Did you hear about the bear that slept through the winter without farting?

A: Of course. Come spring everybody in the forest heard it.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Maybe you're right. What if there's some truth to this though? I've seen so many sources saying this same thing. Most girls aren't attracted to 'nice guys' because being kind and a good listener is seen as the 'minimum' of good social behavior, and it also shows submission and not having a backbone.

The idea that genuine kindness and listening imply not having a backbone is a myth that has been increasingly propagated in the more toxic fringes of the online "manosphere" in recent years. Women are not uniform in their preferences, just like men aren't. There are many women (and men) to whom being kind and a good listener means the world. I have multiple female friends who all appreciate these two specific qualities.

From what I've seen, the "nice guys" who turn off most women tend to be performatively, artificially "nice." They want to get something and aren't acting genuinely. If you're being your genuine self, you'll inevitably attract some women and turn off some. Some people's genuine selves do need improvement, but those are often people with almost universally frowned-upon flaws such as terrible hygiene, rudeness, cruelty, etc.—and even then, there are others who are similar and become drawn to them anyway.