The Trinity

[icebuddy]

But the broad scriptural evidence suggests that was not His permanent state. Since flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of God/heaven, it is safe to assume resurrected Christ does not permanently possess a corporeal body. We must be careful to assign permanency to any biblical statement without considering other scriptures.

Before i continue, the bible says "Flesh and Blood" cannot inherit the kingdom of God

Our Interpretation of the verse 1Cor 15:50 is what drives our thinking here. My First response is that I always trust Jesus's words over any private interpretation of other verses. For example 1Cor 15:50 says Flesh and Blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God and the whole bible says Jesus spilled his blood for us at death. Acts 20:28, Rom 3:25, Rom 5:9, 1cor10:16, Eph2:13, Heb9:14/10:19-22/13:20/12:24/13:12, 1Pet1:2, 1John 1:7/5:6) - All Express Jesus's blood was shed(spilled) for our sins at death.

Romans 8:11 says our Mortal Bodies will be raised in life. In which will be like Jesus's body 1john3:2, phil 3:20-21, in who(Jesus) says is flesh and Bone(no Blood) Luke 24:39. The very body that was destroyed (john2:19-21)

So I agree that "Flesh and Blood"(perishable) cannot inherit the kingdom of God for God says the blood will be spilled at Gen 9:5. Notice Jesus avoids the word Blood when he says hes flesh and bone, and we all know he spilled His blood for us.

Paul also explains himself a few verses later in 1 Cor15:53 when he says the Perishable must "PUT ON" the Imperishable and the Mortal must "PUT ON" Immortality. Alive in the Spirit (Our Flesh and Bones will put on the supernatural)

So as simple as I can put it, Jesus is not "Flesh and Blood" that cannot inherit the kingdom of God but as he says, "Flesh and Bone"(no blood) and that's how he ascended into heaven in front of all the believers in Acts 1:9. And Paul tells us that we cannot enter the Kingdom of God as we are but must under go a change and our Mortal Bodies will have to put on Immortality before entering...

No not verbally, but His action to eat and have His disciples feel and touch Him speaks for itself.

Thats your private thoughts, but I am trusting that Jesus would not use false ideas to express himself and when I die, I will explain that to him. (That i trusted "HIS" words and not my own thoughts)

After His death, Christ supernaturally appeared to His disciples from thin air so we know His spiritual body does not have the identical abilities of his natural body. But His spiritual body could adverbially be similar in shape, form, size as His natural body.

Again, Jesus said He would raise his body that was destroyed. Now i will agree that its now supernatural after putting on Immortality

This tells us Christ could not have possessed the same [identical] fleshly body He died with,

Question: Where did Jesus's Body Go if he wasnt using it?
His resurrected body is without Blood and now put on the supernatural of the spiritual.

He appeared to them in his fleshly form to calm his terrified disciples' fears of seeing a ghost (demon spirit- Luk 24:37) and prove to them He was the same one they saw/heard crucified.

Again, i trust that Jesus would not use false Ideas to express himself. If Jesus says touch me and see that I have Flesh and Bone, then thats what I believe. What you are saying is that he was just doing this to not scare them. If that was the case, why did he continue to use this flesh and bone body even after the initial scare was over? Again, Im trusting Jesus's own words over any personal thoughts here.

 

[kjw47]

What a pathetic response.

In a way he is correct-- The HS is not a living being--it is Gods force( power)

I know certain religions try to say the HS is God--they are way off base.

 

[icebuddy]

Hi icebuddy, perhaps you can answer some questions for me....

i will try to answer in love

Since "resurrection" (Greek "a·na′sta·sis") literally means “raising up; standing up" can you tell me what kind of body Lazarus was resurrected with?....as well as all the many others who were raised back to life in the Bible? Were their bodies the same as Jesus' when he was resurrected? If so, why did they die again?

It is my understanding that they were all resurrected as Corruptible sinful bodies with Blood still in them. Jesus had not yet spilled his own blood for our sins, and therefore they went on and lived and then died again.

Where is it stated that we have an immortal soul (or spirit) that survives the death of the body?

1 Thes 5:23 and Matt 10:28 come to mind, showing we are made up of Body, soul, and Spirit - The Body Dies and the Spirit/Soul lives on. it appears that the soul can die in the 2nd death by God (Rev2:11/21:8)

Before Jesus's resurrection, death was like Luke 16:22-end. Now that Jesus has the keys to death(Rev1:18) and his firstfruits of the resurrection have started (Mat 27:52), the faithful go to be with Jesus at death (Phil1:23, 2Cor5:8, luke 23:43) as mentioned at 2 cor 12:2-4. Here they wait until Jesus brings them back to get their new bodies 1Thes4:14, 2Cor5:31, Rom8:23. The Bad that die still go to the place in Luke 16:22

Where does it state that Adam was "given" a soul at his creation? It is easy to overlook the obvious sometimes.

Gen 2:7 says that Adam "became" a soul when God "breathed" life into him. The meaning of "spirit" is "breath" (Greek pneuma, Heb ruach) so "spirit" is what makes breathing possible. It is the spark of life that a animates all living things.

Gen 2:7 is telling us what man is, not what man is not. this passage doesnt deny the spiritualness of man but shows us that the soul can refer to the whole person. The soul can also be the inner man and be Sad, grieved, in pain, disstressed, bitter, happy, cheer, and others. Other parts of the bible clearly explain that we have a Body, Soul, and Spirit (1Thes 5:23)

Humans are not the only "souls" on earth animated by spirit. When the spirit leaves (breathing ceases) the soul dies. (Psalm 146:4; Ezekiel 18:4)

Ps 146:4 doesnt explain life after death nor is it trying to. It simply says dont trust Kings of the world for when they die their plans for the world die with them. Although they live on in a place like Luke 16 that Jesus talks about. Jesus words should trump all personal thoughts here.

Ez 18:4 - All men Die, all Men sin. Could this be the 2nd death? i dont know why you posted this... This sounds allot like Mat 10:28 that says dont fear man who can only kill the body but fear God who can kill both body and soul...

When Lazarus was brought back to life, where had he been? What did his sister mean when she told Jesus “I know he (Lazarus) will rise in the resurrection on the last day.”

Yes, but Jesus tells us where he would be until the resurrection in Luke 16:22

What does John 5:28, 29 mean, where Jesus said.....?

Ask yourself a question: how can they hear if they are not aware....

"Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment."

Still, same question: how can they hear if they are not aware.... They must be in a place that Jesus tells us about in Luke 16

How can Jesus call the dead out of their "tombs" (graves) unless they are all still in them? If the righteous dead are already with Jesus, what is the point of calling them out of their graves?

We can debate this, but what does it matter? Jesus tells us what its like in Luke 16 and that's what we should believe(since it came from our creator). Jesus also went there and preached the good news to them as seen at 1Peter3:19. how they get from there to their graves Im not sure. However, many have been cremated and dont have graves to come out of, so we might find ourselves stretching...

When spirit beings materialized fleshly bodies in Noah's day and had relations with human women, they produced freakish offspring. The ability to materialize flesh and blood was obviously part of their capabilities as 'messengers', but it was abused, like free will. God put a stop to that and eliminated the Nephilim, who had no right to live.

Please post passages on this. To say angels could produce a body with sperm and have genetic information passed from a fake body to their offspring is a far out there idea. If you are talking about Genesis 6 it says nowhere that angels did this. it also says how wicked man has become (hinting that angels are not involved here)
My thoughts are that Seths line interbreeded with Cains line.

Jesus a Spirit Body

please post the passage so we can look at it

Since Jews believed only in physical resurrection, Jesus' body could not be left in the grave for two reasons. First, because it was prophesied that 'his flesh would not see corruption' (Ps 16:10; Acts 2:31) and secondly, contact with spirits was expressly forbidden in the law. (Deut 18:10-12) His appearing to them in a body of flesh with no body in the tomb, confirmed that he had risen from the dead.

Jesus body in my understanding isnt in corruption. Your idea of contacting spirits being forbidden and claiming Jesus was avoiding this is bizarre to me. Assuming you are a JW or know JW's, how do you think they say he returned in 1914 and how he communicates with his people? In a body, spiritual(Forbidden say you), or how? You also must see that even the fact that a spirit could be contacted must mean some kind of existence for those that died like in Luke 16. Also when Saul had woman bring Samuel's spirit to visit him. (1Sam 28:7-21) Showing some kind of existence after death and the belief that the Jewish people had in it. (Otherwise Saul wouldnt of tried it)

If Christians today believe that they die the same death and have the same resurrection as Christ, why is there a body in a coffin?

Our bodies will see decay and Im not sure of your question... We believe When we die that we will be with Jesus and when he returns and fixes the new heaven and earth that he will raise our bodies from DNA or MEMORY(not sure) and insert our soul/spirits into our new supernatrual bodies without sin.

 

[icebuddy]

No Jesus was not-- 1 Peter 3:18

Jesus was flesh and bone when he ascended into heaven

1 Peter 3:18 says Jesus died in the body and was made alive by the Spirit. So when He died in his body his Spirit went to be with the Father. Then Jesus in spirit preached to those already dead in his luke 16:22 story. Then he raised his own body as he said he would do in John 2:19-21

Question: Where Did his body Go if he didnt raise it up?
Question2: Why must you assume a Spiritual Body is non-physical?
Question3: Do you believe Jesus would say things that are not true?

Romans 8:11 Explains 1 Peter 3:18 as well - Our Mortal Bodies will become Spiritual Bodies, not Spirits without Bodies.

 

[icebuddy]

Agreed. God is one and does not change; ask any Jew??
God is one not three persons

Hebrews 13:8 - Fits nice here

You define God without even knowing. How can one be certain that our ONE GOD isnt like his creation? Take example the ONE UNIVERSE. Do you believe that there is ONE UNIVERSE? If you do, then you might of been told our ONE UNIVERSE is made up of Time, Space, and Matter (3 key Components) Yet we still have ONE UNIVERSE... How can that be with 3 Components? Can one say that Time is not the universe or Space or Matter? Are we not made like our Creator? We are Body, Soul, and Spirit (1Thes 5:23)

God in the Old Testament is revealed in the New Testament not vise versa. Jesus is Jehovah to the glory of the Father!

Ask a Jew who Ps 102:25-27 is talking about. Bet you he says "THE GOD" or known here as Jehovah. Now read Hebrews 1:10-12 and see Jesus being applied to these same verses of Jehovah of the OT.

Ask a Jew who followed them by the form of a cloud and parted the sea and was their Rock. Would they not say "TRUE GOD" or Jehovah? read 1 Cor 10:1-5

How do you feel when I call Jesus, "Jehovah My Righteousness"?

 

[Benoni]

i will try to answer in love

It is my understanding that they were all resurrected as Corruptible sinful bodies with Blood still in them. Jesus had not yet spilled his own blood for our sins, and therefore they went on and lived and then died again.

1 Thes 5:23 and Matt 10:28 come to mind, showing we are made up of Body, soul, and Spirit - The Body Dies and the Spirit/Soul lives on. it appears that the soul can die in the 2nd death by God (Rev2:11/21:8)

.

The second death is a good thing, it is death KILLED by death. The end of all death, the end of hell

All very spiritual

 

[icebuddy]

The HS is not a living being--it is Gods force( power)
I know certain religions try to say the HS is God--they are way off base.

Why would you think the Holy Spirit is not alive? He speaks, feels, and loves you very much. If the Spirit is Alive, wouldnt the one who teaches that he is not living be in danger of Blaspheme?

What makes you believe the Holy Spirit isnt a Living Being? Lets test this Spirit that teaches this...

 

[Benoni]

The Holy Spirit is that part of God with in each one capable of speaking,
loving, reproving, teaching, convicting and transforming.

The only one that will lead and guide us into all truth. If that is not life then there is no life

 

[icebuddy]

In Heaven (Flesh and Blood)vs(Flesh and Bone)

I was thinking last night about what a JW thinks the "great Crowd" will be like... Flesh of some kind, like Adam and Eve i have always assumed. Anyways, what do you think of these verses that claim the great crowd is in heaven?

Rev 7:9 shows the great crowd in heaven
Rev 19:1-6 says the great crowd is in heaven

My Question is: Doesnt the WTBS (JW Leaders) teach that the Great crowd is in Flesh? So how did they end up in heaven as Rev 19:1 clearly states that this is in "Heaven".... This in my mind fits nicely into this topic that Flesh and Blood cannot enter heaven...

 

[Katzpur]

Again, i trust that Jesus would not use false Ideas to express himself. If Jesus says touch me and see that I have Flesh and Bone, then thats what I believe. What you are saying is that he was just doing this to not scare them. If that was the case, why did he continue to use this flesh and bone body even after the initial scare was over? Again, Im trusting Jesus's own words over any personal thoughts here.

I've lost track of the number of times I've pointed out this same thing to people who simply refuse to believe it. You've made some good points, icebuddy, but I'm afraid you're just wasting your time.

 

[Shiranui117]

I've lost track of the number of times I've pointed out this same thing to people who simply refuse to believe it. You've made some good points, icebuddy, but I'm afraid you're just wasting your time.

Perhaps "blood" in this sense refers to corruption, to mortality, while "bone" refers to that which is strong and lasting? I've never really considered linking Jesus' statement with Revelation. Since you work a lot with the "flesh and bone" language, would you care to shed some light?

 

[sojourner]

I know certain religions try to say the HS is God

Christianity is one of them.

 

[kjw47]

Christianity is one of them.

Not true Christianity.

 

[Shiranui117]

Not true Christianity.

Christianity as taught the Apostles and their successors sure does. Want proof from them?

 

[kjw47]

Why would you think the Holy Spirit is not alive? He speaks, feels, and loves you very much. If the Spirit is Alive, wouldnt the one who teaches that he is not living be in danger of Blaspheme?

What makes you believe the Holy Spirit isnt a Living Being? Lets test this Spirit that teaches this...

The Father has a name--YHWH(Jehovah)
The son has a name-Jesus
The HS has no name.

every living being has a name.

Proof the 3 are not equal---
John 17:3--one must know the Father and know the son to get eternal life---but one does not have to know the HS----

1 Corinthians 8:6--The father is mentioned--the son is mentioned-- the HS is not mentioned.

The Father is called KING--tHE SON IS APPOINTED KING--- tHE hs IS NOT.
tHE fATHER SITS ON A throne--the son sits on a throne--The HS doesn't.

 

[BlandOatmeal]

Hi, Icebuddy. I normally don't waste my time with Trinitarians; but this thread is stuck in my "My Replies" tab, so I popped in to see if anyone was trying to get hold of me.

You were making some good comments, until you started getting Trinitarian. I especially liked the talk about Jesus' resurrected body. As you said, some (such as Lazarus) came back to life in flesh and BLOOD bodies. I think it's worthy of note that in going to see Lazarus, Jesus told his disciples that Lazarus "was sleeping". Then he explained to them that Lazarus was indeed dead, as THEY reckoned (clinical) death; but that in the eternal scheme of things he had not been transformed into the new "flesh and bone" body that can walk through walls and disguise its appearance, etc.

Moses and Elijah, apparently, have already undergone this transformation into our eternal form, which Jesus describes as being "like the angels", seeing that they suddenly appeared and suddenly disappeared, like the angels. These are not trivial matters (as is the "Trinity" baloney), because our hope and faith are bound up in our expectation of a resurrection into a form like Jesus'.

Hebrews 13:8 - Fits nice here

You define God without even knowing. How can one be certain that our ONE GOD isnt like his creation? Take example the ONE UNIVERSE. Do you believe that there is ONE UNIVERSE? If you do, then you might of been told our ONE UNIVERSE is made up of Time, Space, and Matter (3 key Components) Yet we still have ONE UNIVERSE... How can that be with 3 Components? Can one say that Time is not the universe or Space or Matter? Are we not made like our Creator? We are Body, Soul, and Spirit (1Thes 5:23)

There you go with the shtik. Before I go any further, let me see what Heb 13:8 is about:

Ah, "[8] Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever."

My only comment here, is that my wife might wish sometimes that I were the same in some respects, that I was when I was younger. That said, I am indeed the same person. Heb. 13:8 can mean anything someone wants it to mean.

Concerning the "universe", which you use in English (The word, as we understand it, doesn't exist in Hebrew. I don't know about the Greek -- can't be bothered with it. It's probably "cosmos" or something). The Jews have the expression "l'olam vaed" to describe eternity.

" in the Hebrew it means "to the distant horizon and again" meaning "a very distant time and even further" and is used to express the idea of a very ancient or future time. "

-- Hebrew Word Meanings

They have a different word, "היקום", to describe "the cosmos" or "the universe". The word "יקום" only occurs three times in the Bible, translated as "substance" -- from a different root, for all I know. What WE consider "the universe" is a finite time-space, bounded in space and past time by the "Big Bang":, and in forward time by the perceived present. You call its components "time, space and matter". Since "time-space" is a single entity (with FOUR dimensions, it seems, not three), and "matter" is interchangeable with energy, it makes a poor comparison for a "trinity" doctrine. How about this classification of the universe:

1. Things that are up
2. Things that are down
3. Things that are neither up nor down*.

*cf. "The Grand Old Duke of York"

A friend of mine once said that the world consists of two types of people:

1. those who classify everything into twos, and
2. those who don't

So much for "proofs" of the Trinity "in nature".

God in the Old Testament is revealed in the New Testament not vise versa. Jesus is Jehovah to the glory of the Father!

Fiddlesticks. It says no such thing.

Ask a Jew who Ps 102:25-27 is talking about. Bet you he says "THE GOD" or known here as Jehovah. Now read Hebrews 1:10-12 and see Jesus being applied to these same verses of Jehovah of the OT.

Let's do that.

Pss 102
[25] Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.
[26] They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:
[27] But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.

Heb 1
[12] And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
[13] But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
[14] Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

I don't see "Jesus" mentioned in either passage.

Ask a Jew who followed them by the form of a cloud and parted the sea and was their Rock. Would they not say "TRUE GOD" or Jehovah? read 1 Cor 10:1-5

How do you feel when I call Jesus, "Jehovah My Righteousness"?

As I said, Trinity arguments are pointless. I have yet to find a convinced Trinitarian who will hear reason concerning his doctrine, and I don't expect to start here. "Ask a Jew"?? Ask a Jew, whether or not he believes God is a Trinity. I dare say, he will say "no". By the way, my wife often sits at my right hand; but she is not me; neither are we of the same substance, the same sex, the same DNA, you name it. The scripture you quote says nothing of these matters.

Ciao

 

[Shiranui117]

The Father has a name--YHWH(Jehovah)
The son has a name-Jesus
The HS has no name.

This is faulty. The Son was not known as "Jesus" until He was incarnate as a man. And the Tetragrammon just means "I Am Who I Am"--not much more of a personal name than "Holy Spirit".

I want you to read the following Scripture:

Luke 12:12 - the Holy Spirit will teach you in that hour what you ought to say. (The Holy Spirit teaches.)
John 14:26 - the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, He will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all I have said to you. (The Holy Spirit teaches.)
John 15:26 - the Spirit, who proceeds from the Father, He will bear witness to me. (The Holy Spirit bears witness.)
John 16: 8 - And when he (the Holy Spirit) comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment (The Holy Spirit can convict things.)
John 16:13-14 - When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. (The Spirit hears, speaks, guides, declares and takes.)
Acts 10:19-20 And while Peter was pondering the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Behold, three men are looking for you. 20 Rise and go down and accompany them without hesitation,[c] for I have sent them.” (The Holy Spirit talks and sends people!)
Acts 11:12 And the Spirit told me to go with them, making no distinction. These six brothers also accompanied me, and we entered the man's house. (See above)
Acts 13:2 While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” (Again, the Holy Spirit talks!)
Rev. 22:17 The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” (Again, the Holy Spirit talks.)
Acts 15:25,28 - it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us (The Holy Spirit has opinions and makes judgements.)
Rom. 8:26 - the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with sighs too deep for words. (The Holy Spirit prays for us to God and sighs. Impersonal forces can't do that.)
Rom. 8:16 - The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God (Forces can't "bear witness".
Rom. 15:30 - I appeal to you by the Lord Jesus and the love of the Spirit. (Only persons, rational beings, can love.)
1 Cor. 12:11 - All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills. (The Holy Spirit has a will and can make decisions.)
Eph. 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. (The Holy Spirit can be grieved.)

None of this supports the idea that the Holy Spirit is an impersonal force--it completely contradicts that notion.

 

[Shiranui117]

Pss 102
[25] Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.
[26] They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:
[27] But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.

Heb 1
[12] And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
[13] But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
[14] Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
I don't see "Jesus" mentioned in either passage.

Read it in context; it's explicitly referring to Jesus.

8 But of the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”

10 And,
“You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning,
and the heavens are the work of your hands;
11 they will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment,
12 like a robe you will roll them up,
like a garment they will be changed.[a]
But you are the same,
and your years will have no end.”

 

[Katzpur]

Perhaps "blood" in this sense refers to corruption, to mortality, while "bone" refers to that which is strong and lasting? I've never really considered linking Jesus' statement with Revelation. Since you work a lot with the "flesh and bone" language, would you care to shed some light?

Actually, about all I can really say is what I've been saying all along, and what I've already said in this thread:

The Bible makes mention of "flesh and blood" on several occasions, and in every single one of them the phrase is used to mean "mortal man." It has nothing to do with some kind of inability of flesh to exist in a heavenly sphere. It simply is used to refer to man in his mortal state. The phrase "flesh and bones" is used only once in the Bible and that was when Jesus specifically stated that He had a body of flesh and bones -- meaning not that He was a mortal man (in the sense that a mortal man is susceptible to disease, injury and death) but that He had a corporeal form. It could be touched and felt. It was not "mortal" (i.e. "flesh and blood"), but "immortal," meaning that it could never die or age or anything like that.

 

[james2ko]

Before i continue, the bible says "Flesh and Blood" cannot inherit the kingdom of God

Our Interpretation of the verse 1Cor 15:50 is what drives our thinking here. My First response is that I always trust Jesus's words over any private interpretation of other verses. For example 1Cor 15:50 says Flesh and Blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God and the whole bible says Jesus spilled his blood for us at death. Acts 20:28, Rom 3:25, Rom 5:9, 1cor10:16, Eph2:13, Heb9:14/10:19-22/13:20/12:24/13:12, 1Pet1:2, 1John 1:7/5:6) - All Express Jesus's blood was shed(spilled) for our sins at death.

Romans 8:11 says our Mortal Bodies will be raised in life. In which will be like Jesus's body 1john3:2, phil 3:20-21, in who(Jesus) says is flesh and Bone(no Blood) Luke 24:39. The very body that was destroyed (john2:19-21)

So I agree that "Flesh and Blood"(perishable) cannot inherit the kingdom of God for God says the blood will be spilled at Gen 9:5. Notice Jesus avoids the word Blood when he says hes flesh and bone, and we all know he spilled His blood for us.

Paul also explains himself a few verses later in 1 Cor15:53 when he says the Perishable must "PUT ON" the Imperishable and the Mortal must "PUT ON" Immortality. Alive in the Spirit (Our Flesh and Bones will put on the supernatural)

So as simple as I can put it, Jesus is not "Flesh and Blood" that cannot inherit the kingdom of God but as he says, "Flesh and Bone"(no blood) and that's how he ascended into heaven in front of all the believers in Acts 1:9. And Paul tells us that we cannot enter the Kingdom of God as we are but must under go a change and our Mortal Bodies will have to put on Immortality before entering...

Thats your private thoughts, but I am trusting that Jesus would not use false ideas to express himself and when I die, I will explain that to him. (That i trusted "HIS" words and not my own thoughts)

Again, Jesus said He would raise his body that was destroyed. Now i will agree that its now supernatural after putting on Immortality



Question: Where did Jesus's Body Go if he wasnt using it?
His resurrected body is without Blood and now put on the supernatural of the spiritual.

Again, i trust that Jesus would not use false Ideas to express himself. If Jesus says touch me and see that I have Flesh and Bone, then thats what I believe. What you are saying is that he was just doing this to not scare them. If that was the case, why did he continue to use this flesh and bone body even after the initial scare was over? Again, Im trusting Jesus's own words over any personal thoughts here.

No personal thoughts here. Just interpreting what I see in the Greek. The conjunctive phrase "flesh and blood" suggests if one or both conditions exist, one cannot inherit the kingdom of God. After His resurrection and glorification, Jesus appeared to the disciples in fleshly form. Thus He could not "permanently" be composed of mortal flesh but of immortal spirit. This is confirmed by an objective translation of 1 Pe 3:18:

1Pe_3:18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to [tO] God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the [tO] Spirit,​

In the Greek, both instances of the dative article "tO" immediately precede the dative nouns God and spirit. The dative case does not exist in English grammar so the translator can subjectively add or subtract words for clarification. Sometimes it helps clarify the meaning but, like in this passage, it can also obscure it. Curiously, in the first instance, the definite article "the" was omitted by the translators. In the second instance, the translators changed the phrase completely to read--"by the spirit." To remain consistent with Peter's word usage, the second instance should have been translated the same as the first to read---"to spirit". A pure, unbiased translation from the Greek should read:

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to [tO] God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive to [tO] spirit,​

Hence confirming, from the original Greek, Christ's body was resurrected to spirit-- not flesh. As I've pointed out, other passages inform us His spirit body came with the ability to make adaptations as necessary.