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The Trinity

outhouse

Atheistically
Well, you are indebted to the Catholic Church

I dont think so



they have done more harm to the progression of humanity

From Newton, to Galileo religion has stopped if not slowed some of 5the most brilliant minds this planet has ever known.

Today religion still wants in the classroom to poison young minds, thankfully creation has been outlawed in public schools.

anyway you have dragged this way off topic, next you will claim the earth is 6000 years old and a global flood killed everything but noah ......


back to the trinity
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
They have done a great job without me.

One only has to read the whole book cover to cover.


You confuse me with a anti-theist.
Your opinion doesn't really matter within the realm of Xy, does it?
You realize that the faith is constituted by more than "the book," right?
Your religious listing says it all -- unless you're lying.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
Your opinion doesn't really matter within the realm of Xy, does it?
You realize that the faith is constituted by more than "the book," right?
Your religious listing says it all -- unless you're lying.

so even if there wasn't a book...this faith would still be...?
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Your opinion doesn't really matter within the realm of Xy, does it?
You realize that the faith is constituted by more than "the book," right?
Your religious listing says it all -- unless you're lying.


so you admit only christians who have faith in something where there is ZERO proof can debate about reality, logic and reason???????


Like it or not, your part of my world, i'm not part of yours. You have 1/3 of the planets population following a loose version with 33,000 different types, You are a minority among your own kind with your own personal version. [which is great kudos for you] but dont make the mistake of thinking im on the out looking in. I find it to be the other way around.
 

kepha31

Active Member
I dont think so

they have done more harm to the progression of humanity

From Newton, to Galileo religion has stopped if not slowed some of 5the most brilliant minds this planet has ever known.

Today religion still wants in the classroom to poison young minds, thankfully creation has been outlawed in public schools.

anyway you have dragged this way off topic, next you will claim the earth is 6000 years old and a global flood killed everything but noah ......

Just lies and hate propaganda. So yes, get back to the Trinity where you can continue making a fool of yourself, on or off topic. Anyone who reads http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/history/world/wh0101.html with so much as a slightly open mind can see your statements for what they are. Lies and hate.
 
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outhouse

Atheistically
Just lies and hate propaganda. So yes, get back to the Trinity where you can continue making a fool of yourself, on or off topic. Anyone who reads How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization with so much as a slightly open mind can see your statements for what they are. Lies and hate.


YOu claim im bias, but provied a link from a christian website :facepalm:

you are also being rude where I am not, are all christians rude?? I know they are not. Were you not taught forgivness???

We can have a debate, dont let that get you all emotional and bring personal insults to the table. I have not done so to you.



it is you who makes claims of 3 different sky daddys that magically turn into one, by mans definition alone. It is upon you to provide evidence that what im saying is wrong. Personal insults are showing weakness on your part.

Dont you have something valid and unbiased to bring to the table??? because insults only sink you deeper
 

outhouse

Atheistically
by the way your biased link only paints a positive picture, while ignoring anything negative.

it glosses over the truth without proving proper details of anything. Its vague to say the least
 

kepha31

Active Member
so you admit only christians who have faith in something where there is ZERO proof can debate about reality, logic and reason???????

Hate propaganda has nothing to do with reality, logic and reason. I can direct you to plenty of debates with reality, logic and reason but since those are absent in most of your posts, you would dismiss them out of hand, just like you dimiss and ignore all the links I use to refute you (often from YOUR sources).

Like it or not, your part of my world, i'm not part of yours. You have 1/3 of the planets population following a loose version with 33,000 different types, You are a minority among your own kind with your own personal version.
Nothing like jumping to concusions. I am part of a family of 1.1 billion with one set of doctrines that has not changed in essense from the orininal. You are confusing sojourner with Protestantism. You keep hanging yourself with lame blanket statements. This insult of yours has nothing to do with the Trinity.

[which is great kudos for you] but dont make the mistake of thinking im on the out looking in. I find it to be the other way around.[/quote]

Which has what to do with the Trinity?
 

outhouse

Atheistically
I use to refute you

you have not refuted me at all.



did ,,, or did not man define the trinity???


what description in the gospels, outlines the trinity in detail???



why was the trinity voted on in 325AD???


why was the trinity not adopted while jesus was alive???
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
so you admit only christians who have faith in something where there is ZERO proof can debate about reality, logic and reason???????
No, I'm claiming that, as an atheist, you don't have a dog in the Trinity fight.
Like it or not, your part of my world, i'm not part of yours. You have 1/3 of the planets population following a loose version with 33,000 different types, You are a minority among your own kind with your own personal version. [which is great kudos for you] but dont make the mistake of thinking im on the out looking in. I find it to be the other way around.
You're the atheist -- not me.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Dont need a dog to have an opinion.
Question is: Why do you care? Or are you here just to poke fun and laugh at our expense?
And if so, wouldn't that make you ill-behaved, as you accused my colleague of being?
Like it or not, your part of my world, i'm not part of yours.
Like it or not, I couldn't care less what tripe you dream up.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Question is: Why do you care?

Because im trying to get after the truth, unfortunately theology doesnt always equal the truth

3 Common Sense Reasons Why the Trinity is a False Doctrine



#1. No Authority at Nicea

First, lets set this up with a brief history lesson. The Trinity was cautified nearly 300 years after Christ and the original Apostles had been killed off. Christians had been persecuted and had gone underground for much of this period to avoid being fed to lions--remember that? Even though Christianity was splintered and leaderless at this time, it was the one common thing that was found throughout the then declining Roman Empire.

Under that setting, the Nicean Council and the formation of the Trinity doctrine was ordered, led and ultimately approved by the Roman Emperor Constantine as part of his political campaign to unite factions of the failing Roman Empire under one state religion. Not a lot of people dispute this fact, but Trinity believers try to "spiritualize" this history by making Constantine into a holy man who was led by God to do what he did. While there is NO evidence for this, there are lots of reasons to believe that he was doing it for strictly political purposes. To this day there is a debate about whether or not Constantine was even baptized a member of the Church--which Christ said was necessary to be saved. (See John 3:5)

evilpope.jpg
Think about it. A somewhat analogous equivalent today would be if the President of the United States gathered up all the Christian denominations of the day, had them mash-up their differing beliefs, and made a church from the consensus--a single religion for the the whole country. And it would all be lead and approved by, not a religious leader, but a political leader.





















#2. The Unknowable God

The Trinity Doctrine is impossible to understand, yet understanding our relationship to God is central in gaining salvation and understanding many other gospel doctrines. In fact the Bible tells us that our very eternal life depends on knowing HIM.

John 17: 3 - And this is life eternal, that they might KNOW thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Bottom line, the 3-in-one monster conjured up by the Trinity is an unknowable being. The Trinity is confusion, and that is NOT of God, but of the devil.(See 1 Cor. 14: 33)

Honest theologians and priests will even admit that there is no way to "understand" the Trinity. They will argue that the mortal mind cannot grasp it but only "comprehend" some of it, but even that is a stretch when the scripture states that our very eternal life depends on KNOWING Him


#3. Lack of ANY Spiritual Confirmation or Manifestation


As I have argued, this is a key doctrine that is pivotal to understand which touches most if not all other gospel principals and doctrines, yet there is no evidence of spiritual manifestations, or any kind of confirmation by the spirit for the conclusion of Nicea.

Again, anyone who takes time to read and study the history of the Nicean Creed will be struck by the strictly political atmosphere of the whole event--thats it.

If you take your examples from the Bible you will notice that most all of the major events in scripture were attended by angels, had manifestations of the Holy Spirit, or miraculous happenings of some sort or another. Yet at Nicea, none of the attendants reported angels appearing, cloven tongues of fire, or even a simple voice from heaven. Everything went off like a session of congress with everybody trying to please the Roman Emperor.

If this IS a pivotal doctrine, why wouldn't there be SOME record of a miraculous occurance that could be pointed to as acceptance by God?

So there you have it. I think these common sense reasons are valid and very strong against the Trinity being a true doctrine. I believe that most Christian Churches of the day have accepted it simply because it is a tradition. If you can argue against any of this, I'd love to hear it.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
And if so, wouldn't that make you ill-behaved, as you accused my colleague of being?

The reason you are your colleague are ill-behaved is because you have your back to the wall.

you cannot prove anything about the trinity other then men made it, had what amounts to a court hearing by a politician to define your god.


I child can refute the trinity as I did and stopped the priest cold in his tracks. How can they be the same if jesus sits on the right hand of god???

teach one thing and preach another is what the trinity is all about. Well that and creating divinity
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
The reason you are your colleague are ill-behaved is because you have your back to the wall.
It's a wall you put up, and it's a paper one -- easily broken through. I'm ill-behaved because "Prove it" overnadoverandoverandoverandoverandoverandover is a frustrating, immature tactic.
you cannot prove anything about the trinity
See?
I don't have to prove it! I believe it. If you need proof, then you prove it, Einstein.
I child can refute the trinity as I did and stopped the priest cold in his tracks. How can they be the same if jesus sits on the right hand of god???
You haven't stopped anything. Jesus doesn't sit on the right hand of God. Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father.

#52 of my 73 reasons why people ought to read the creed before they bash it.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
i get that you don't need proof, you have faith...that's all good
but what does this mean?
It means that truth is often larger than factual proof. if Outhouse wants so badly to "get at the truth," then he really needs to understand that.
 
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